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Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-09-2008, 11:06 AM Reply   
What would you guys do? I had a 07 Liquid force watson that started to delam at one end. The board is ridden pretty gently and never hit any sliders or anything else for that matter. I wrote liquid force about the problem and they said it was out of warranty and would be hard to repair but offered that I could order a new one off of a proform or maybe another item that I would want. I did my best to epoxy the board and decided on ordering a wakesurfer off of the proform. I went with a venture 5'0" BLEM for about $185. When it arrived it was pretty different than the one they currently have advertised on their website.

One I got
Upload

One on their website
Upload

I wrote liqiud force about it and here is the correspondence.

I did not ship the board my friend

It is shipped from Washington and I am in San Diego

I have no idea what the final product looks like as Jimmy Redmon can change the shape of any board at any time

He is our head shaper and is in charge of production

Thanks,

MikeZimmerman
EAST COAST SALES
LIQUID FORCE WAKEBOARDS
SL WATERSPORTS
(760) 943-8364 ext.303 / Fax (425) 895-5891
________________________________________
From: Brenner, Jeremiah [mailto:Jeremiah.Brenner@aa.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:24 AM
To: Zimmerman, Mike
Subject: RE: 07 Watson

Mike,

You did do a me a favor by hooking me up with a proform and for that I am grateful. I think that you have done a great job trying to make amends for a 1.5 year old liquid force that started to delam. The price of the surfboard was definitely nice but is was still a sufficient amount that liquid force isnít losing money on selling me one at that price. If they are is surely isnít more than a few bucks. Once again I know that you didnít know that I would be receiving a board that wasnít what I ordered. The only problem I had is that it was assumed that I would have no problem accepting it and should still be just as happy.
















From: Zimmerman, Mike [mailto:MikeZ@LiquidForce.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:15 AM
To: Brenner, Jeremiah
Subject: RE: 07 Watson

I did you a favor by hooking you up with a pro form

You can send the board back I have no problem issuing you an RA

Thanks,

MikeZimmerman
EAST COAST SALES
LIQUID FORCE WAKEBOARDS
SL WATERSPORTS
(760) 943-8364 ext.303 / Fax (425) 895-5891
________________________________________
From: Brenner, Jeremiah [mailto:Jeremiah.Brenner@aa.com]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:50 PM
To: Zimmerman, Mike
Cc: Brenner, Jeremiah
Subject: RE: 07 Watson

Sorry it took so long to get back to you I have been out of town on an aircraft incident. I find your response a little unacceptable. I ordered a board that I thought was a certain thing and it arrived completely different. The shape change isnít minor itís pretty major. The board on your website has four fins three and one end and one at the other. The board that I received only has three fins at one end and is a much more traditional shape. If I wanted a traditionally shaped board I would have got a custom or something similar. The board that I thought I would be receiving had a more two-directional shape. You may not have see the new board so I am attaching a photo of it that I found on the web after searching for a while( I am at work). Took me a while to find one though so apparently everyone else selling liquid force ventures still has the style that is on your website. ]














From: Zimmerman, Mike [mailto:MikeZ@LiquidForce.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:14 AM
To: Brenner, Jeremiah
Subject: RE: 07 Watson

This is the first I have heard of this

My assumption would be that Jimmy Redmon changed the mold of the board sometime in production this current year.

Your new shape is not a bad thing. Jimmy knows his surfboards really well and by seeing the guy surf the change in the mold can only be an improvement

Thanks,

MikeZimmerman
EAST COAST SALES
LIQUID FORCE WAKEBOARDS
SL WATERSPORTS
(760) 943-8364 ext.303 / Fax (425) 895-5891
________________________________________
From: Brenner, Jeremiah [mailto:Jeremiah.Brenner@aa.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:56 PM
To: Zimmerman, Mike
Subject: RE: 07 Watson

Hey Mike,

Got the board last night and while I was glad to see that it arrived I was a little dissapointed when I opened it. While the graphics and color are the same the board is nothing similar to what you have listed as the 08 Venture 5'0" board on your website. The one on your website is flat at the tip and has a single fin there as well. This one is round like the venture 5'6". It is still orange in color and the graphics basically match it just wasn't what I was wanting in shape. I realize it was a blem but I was under the impression that a blem wouldn't be a completely different board.
Please advise.


Jeremiah Brenner
MD80 Systems Engineer
American Airlines
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-09-2008, 11:51 AM Reply   
wow...really? LF is hooking you up with a deal on a surfer because your out-of-warranty deck broke? And you're f-king complaining about it?

Why don't you call Mike at the number he listed in his email signature and hash this out with him that way. It'll be much more effective in finding a resolution than trying to make LF customer service look bad on the internet.
Old    Adam Balon (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-09-2008, 12:13 PM Reply   
J. if you dont mind me saying.... i would be more stoked on the one they sent you. i have surfed both... the old shape picture on the web and the pointier new one which is far better.

i dont know why they have that pick up on the site. it was likely mocked onto the old shape prior to surf expo last season and they just ran with it.

as far as the customer service goes..... lf is doing you a real service. the wake industry seems to bend over ridiculously in an effort to keep customer loyalty. its a good thing tht can sometimes bite them in th ass as is the case with this post.

i look at it like this. your board is past the warranty period.... they man up and offer you a proform on any other product. pretty nice.

my 2 cents.
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-09-2008, 12:15 PM Reply   
Yeah, looks like LF is standing behind their 07 Watson by giving you a surf board a pro form and then it looks like Mike handled it appropriately though all the email correspondence. I ride for LF and our wakeboard school is sponsored by LF, and I've never seen that surfboard with the squared off nose and nose fin, but I think you'd be happy with what they sent you--it's a great board. I'd say that LF is going above and beyond and that you're lucky they've helped you out as much as they have. From a business perspective, it's hard to justify sending a new board for every board issue, especially when it's out of warranty.
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       09-09-2008, 12:16 PM Reply   
Can I ask also why you did not go to your dealer that you bought the board from with the warranty issue?!?! Your dealer would get further with LF than you would, most likely you would have got a new board... unless you purchased it from ebay or something like that.

Again you are buying a Blem item that you got on a proform... don't like it sell it!
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       09-09-2008, 12:17 PM Reply   
I agree. LF did way more than they had to.
I dont really think you have much to be upset about.
Old    Adam Balon (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-09-2008, 12:22 PM Reply   
food for thought....

check with panasonic or another electronics companies what their policy is on products with no remaining warranty.

if you buy a new bike and ding the frame does the bike company offer you a new bike... or even a proform on a new bike. likely not.

i dont know why the wake industry is so soft. they really show their vulnerability in their small market place.
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-09-2008, 12:31 PM Reply   
Sweet I'll take advice from you guys and keep the board. But yeah Scott I was f-ing complaining about it. It's not like they sent the board for free or anything. You guys all know that if you had a board for one season and it started to delam on you that you would be pretty pissed to. It's not like this board was 5 years old or anything. Did try contacting the original seller. My first email to liquid force wasn't asking them to replace the board just advice on how to fix it.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-09-2008, 12:39 PM Reply   
Sounds to me like you should do business with a company that has a warranty department more in line with your values. While I agree LF went above the call of duty based on their warranty policy, I also think they have a terrible warranty policy. There are plenty of other companies that would have replaced your board, no questions asked. A year and a half old board should not fall apart and its a shame they don't stand behind them more than they do.
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-09-2008, 12:48 PM Reply   
Exactly, that's what I stated in the emails to Mike. I was grateful that he offered me the proform order it's just I wasn't delivered what I ordered. All you guys above telling me that I should be happy I would assume would be completely fine ordering a board and not getting what you ordered? If you guys think it's a better board than the one advertised then great I'll keep it and thanks for the advice. Wasn't really trying to bash hyperlite, I think Mike did do more than he needed to when it came to the warranty issue I just thought it was kind of silly that I got the different board.
Old    Myke D (breakz77)      Join Date: Mar 2003       09-09-2008, 12:48 PM Reply   
I have to disagree... I've seen LF replace stuff that was a few years old... but again it was the dealer requesting the replacement.

You stated you did try contacting the original seller - again was this a dealer or ebay?

I do agree with Adam that every company in the industry is way to soft on their warranty!
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-09-2008, 12:55 PM Reply   
buywake.com
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-09-2008, 12:56 PM Reply   
I've been trying to find the email from buywake but can't.
Old    IPLAYFORKEEPS (number55)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-09-2008, 1:03 PM Reply   
that's just one of the reasons it's always better to buy from a shop...
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-09-2008, 1:20 PM Reply   
I think the key is that you didn't get the 07 board replaced--you kept it and decided to fix it, then you were complaining about the surfboard that LF sent you at pro form. Had you taken the board in to a local proshop, they would have taken your 07 board from you and returned it to LF. As it is, you have a wakeboard and a surf board, albeit you paid pro form for the surfboard.
Old    IPLAYFORKEEPS (number55)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-09-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
I just think your over thinking it man..if you don't like the fin set up, sell the board and get your self and new one. I'll bet you'd get your money back and some. So heck, why not sell the board you just got hooked up with and buy your self a new Watson.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       09-09-2008, 3:23 PM Reply   
1 year warranty?
That sucks!!
Old    IPLAYFORKEEPS (number55)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-09-2008, 4:33 PM Reply   
I know for a fact LF, CWB, Ronix, and Gator all have a one year warranty. I'm sure Hyperlite, Obrien, slingshot are all one year as well, but i dont sell em
Old    Les D. (ldebbold)      Join Date: Jun 2006       09-09-2008, 4:41 PM Reply   
Just my 2 cents, but I've had problems with HL products like this (Delam) and took the board back to Ultimate and they didn't even blink about giving me a new board. No questions asked. Their customer service rocks.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       09-09-2008, 4:53 PM Reply   
Wrong, CWB and Hyperlite have a limited LIFETIME Warranty.
Old    IPLAYFORKEEPS (number55)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-09-2008, 5:06 PM Reply   
I'm sorry, Cdub is 2 year + limited lifetime...but it's replaced at one half the current retail price or repaired at cost...so really "lifetime warranty" is an over statement.
Old    House (midwesthouse)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-09-2008, 6:34 PM Reply   
My 2 cents.....

I've dealt with Mike Z. over at Liquid Force a lot because I do all the warranty work at the shop I work at. I have never had a problem with him, even with warranty issues over a year old. The problem is that most large companies do not like to deal with consumers for this exact reason. I'm sure if you talked to buywake and had them talk to LF, it would not have been a problem.

Sidenote:
Hyperlite has a limited lifetime warranty ONLY on the Sub 6, Marek, Murray and the Monarch (boards with nova core) All other boards are 1 year depending on how you look at it.
Old    Joe Burbo (jburbo)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-09-2008, 8:12 PM Reply   
As a consumer I have also dealt with Mike on several different occasions, he is a stand up guy and has always gone above and beyond to make sure I was taken care of. I am sure he will get this resolved for you whatever route you decide to take.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (kickflip_mj)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-09-2008, 8:39 PM Reply   
Mike at LF is the SH*& he has taken such good care of me.. i understand that the board did delam but if liquid force didnt have any regulations on stuff then 5 years from now when my watson breaks i can return it... you got a proform from them and maybe the board has a nose but it looks alittle more like a surf board to me..
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-09-2008, 8:48 PM Reply   
I think Mike has been defended enough.
Old    Corey James McKenna (coreym)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-12-2008, 12:59 PM Reply   
Hyperlite's Warranty - off of our policy sheet
Manufacturer's defects only (sun fading, rail damage, using it as a diving board, and that kind of stuff is not covered)

Limited lifetime warranty on all compression molded boards. Includes skis, wakeboards, skates, surfs & kneeboards. So if it is wood or plastic it is not included (Roam, Phriction, scape, and a few kneeboards are not compression molded)

2 years warranty on boots - from date of purchase. This warranty is does not cover torn finger holes and damage outside of normal use

One year on Wood boards, Inflatables

90 days on leisure line tubes, clothing & bags

If you have any questions about your warranty please call me at HO Sports. 800-938-4646. Thanks.

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