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Old    Curt Bernstein (curtbernstein)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-07-2008, 8:06 PM Reply   
Only because I didn't get any attention to my post in the trick tips board....

I have a decent batwing, but find that it is a very heavy pull on my arm, is that normal?

I can also raley, but its not fun. I get a large wave of tension in the air followed by a ton of slack in the line on landing, I also tend to stargaze a little.

Would somebody please explain step by step how a glide is done, and done well... Whether it be a Melon Glide, Hoochie, batwing, nuclear, ect....
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-07-2008, 8:34 PM Reply   
You should start off with a hoochie and then move from there. To do a hoochie, you are not going to edge as far out as you would for a raley, and unlike a raley you want to take more of a progressive edge into the wake. When you edge in come in with your knees really bent, when you pop this will help you keep your knees in so you can grab it off the wake. The key to learning a hoochie is not charging the wake like a bat out of hell. When you pop reach for the grab right away. If you do it right, you will find that you are in so much control that you can manipulate the board however you want. So much better feeling that a raley and so much more fun.

For a melon glide (method glide) you want to take the same edge as the hoochie, maybe a little lighter and when you hit the wake you are going to pop and push your lead shoulder down while making sure to keep the rope very close into your hip. It is very easy to let the rope out when you push down with your lead shoulder. I prefer doing method glides over hoochie because I like being more off axis than inverted.

For a nuclear glide, you want to edge in even more compact and when you hit the wake you want to push down on the rope with your front hand and rotate your body backwards at the same time but really forcing yourself to stay over the board. Do a couple of these without going for the grab first because the falls on these are pretty bad so you want to get the technique first then starting reaching for the grab. When you grab it, it becomes a little harder to bring back and can be easy to catch a back edge. Learning 911s really doesnt help nuc glides because with nuc glides you are staying more horizontal over your board.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-07-2008, 8:37 PM Reply   
If that was hard to understand, you can IM me at Kyle13930 and I can probably help you with some little tips knowing what you are doing wrong.
Old    benj_t            08-07-2008, 8:46 PM Reply   
hey some tips on my batwing could sure help me.

sometimes i feel like i dont get the board far enough behind me. like most of the time it feels like more of a poke instead of a raley or glide or something like that. also help on getting the board back down under me to land cause sometimes i will land really angled and i will be really close to cathing my nose. any help would be great! thanks!

Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-07-2008, 8:55 PM Reply   
Batwings are different for everybody. When I do batwings, I really crank my edge at the top of the wake so basically the whole nose of my board is hitting the wake. Also take in a crouched knee approach to control the grab so basically it doesnt look like dallas's lol. If your edge is hard at the top of the wake it should make the motion of the whole trick pretty smooth and should come down pretty smooth. When you land, you want to be over your toes. Not too sure why you are landing angled but I would say it is all your edge at the top of the wake
Old    Nick Kondylas (homedawg678)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-07-2008, 9:02 PM Reply   
whats wrong with dallas'?
Old    benj_t            08-07-2008, 9:34 PM Reply   
on dallas's batwing her board is like sideways, but i think hes saying that his board is straight up and down.

thanks for the tips kyle! i will definetly try that out!
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-07-2008, 9:45 PM Reply   
yeah, exactly. Here is a Watson vs. Dallas batwing. Dallas' is more of a toeside raley with a late grab thrown in. Watson looks like he is in perfect control. Nicola has an awesome batwing as well.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-07-2008, 9:47 PM Reply   
Watson's batwing is one of my favorite tricks in wakeboarding
Old    benj_t            08-07-2008, 10:10 PM Reply   
yea keith lyman has a sick batwing, im not sure if he does them anymore though
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-07-2008, 10:17 PM Reply   
yep good call on lymans, love how he gets his body over the board
Old    Paul Bernier (wakeriderixi)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-07-2008, 11:05 PM Reply   
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-07-2008, 11:57 PM Reply   
Batwing = 3 kicks

Old    HH99 (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       08-08-2008, 5:42 AM Reply   
Hey Kyle, put up a pic of your batwing.
Old    Danny Simon (wakerider42)      Join Date: May 2002       08-08-2008, 9:19 AM Reply   
HAHA 3 kicks. Nice Mitch. Just saw that movie recently (Waiting).

Sorry for the digression. Back to Batwings...

I like the more straight up and down version as well (i.e. not Dallas'). Of course I can't do one at all, so I'd take any kind!
Old    Andy Nintzel-NautiCurl Wake Shaper (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-08-2008, 9:20 AM Reply   
For me My Wings are all front Foot. I slam my front foot into the wake to get it to swing forward.
Old    Jason Shehan (norcalbordr)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-08-2008, 9:23 AM Reply   
I need batwing help too. I'm having a tough time getting the grab and I'm coming up short on my landing. Do I just need to cut in harder, like a TS Raley cut? Do I need to really throw my board behind me or should it float out naturally if I just bring my rear knee up?
Old    Andy Nintzel-NautiCurl Wake Shaper (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-08-2008, 9:31 AM Reply   
I take a short Fast Approach, not like a layed out TS Raley. I push my front foot into the wake hard and punch the board up, this lets the grab sink into your hand. I try and grab right as I am leaving the wake. If you dont get the grab immediatly you wont get it at all. As soon as it goes up and out I try and pull the rope back to my lead hip, this squares me up and gets me over my toes for the landing.
Old    Jason Shehan (norcalbordr)      Join Date: Feb 2006       08-08-2008, 10:13 AM Reply   
Any video online for Indy glides or batwings?
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-08-2008, 10:32 AM Reply   
HH, i'll get a photo snapped next time i ride
Old    Taylor H (maliburider456)      Join Date: Nov 2006       08-08-2008, 10:42 AM Reply   
here is my batwing. the pictur was taken early i throw mine further out then the picture shws but i grabbed that one crail. i broke my foot on this trick 2 years agoUpload
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-08-2008, 3:39 PM Reply   
I kinda like dallas' batwing, it's different...

how are we gonna have a discussion about glides without bringing up chad sharpe??? Have we forgotten about the fat indy glides he was doing off the air force kicker at the [reno??] pro tour stop?

never gets old: []

Old    Curt Bernstein (curtbernstein)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-11-2008, 9:21 AM Reply   
When I do my raley, I typically get into the air and feel a huge wave of tension, then when I land, the line slacks up.... THe trick feels terrible, and the worst part about it is I land it pretty much every time... I think I have really bad habits... Does this mean that I am forcing the raley off the wake?? Can anyone explain the difference between a w2w progressive edge and a hoochie style raley.. How is the "floating" initiated? How is the approach different?
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-11-2008, 9:42 AM Reply   
You really need to get a vid up curt, definitely the best way for us to help you. the raley should be a pretty fluid motion. It is basically, edge like a bat out of hell, hit the wake, extend, and pull in.

On the Hoochie edge, it is just a standard progressive edge but you are going to start further out and come in a little harder. If you start out 15 feet and take a progressive edge, even if it is slow, you will go big. Basically what I'm saying is that I take the same w2w progressive edge, although I bend my knees more with a hoochie, but just start a little further out.
Old    Curt Bernstein (curtbernstein)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-12-2008, 1:56 AM Reply   
How is the release for the Hoochie different? What makes you drift out? Do you stand tall at the wake for the pop?? and yes, you're right, video is on the way...


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