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Old    Bess Marine (xtremebordgurl)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-25-2008, 12:48 PM Reply   
OK, now I know this may be a hot topic, but you computer knowledgeable people out there help a girl out. Right now my biz partner and i are Mac AND PC. I'm not going to lie, I'm a total Mac snob. But I'm starting to wonder if i have a right to be... I've been doing some internet research and I would just like to hear from some people here who have some facts.

Here's what I thought....

I THOUGHT Macs were all built by one company, the components built to work together, therefor work better than the mass array of generic parts that are put together by PCs that may not necessarily work well together. HOWEVER, in my reading it seem like a lot of the parts come from the same place... but why does the imaging/creative world (seem) to run 90% on Macs? It seems Mac is the industry standard for creatives, but why?

So here is why this is comming up... I have a mac, my biz partner has a PC, her PC is about to die and we both just assume when it dies we replace it with a mac (let me tell you trying to run a network of mac and PC is PURE CHAOS I don't care what anyone says about that!). But even though I just got a brand new iMac last month I'm wondering if, maybe PC is better???

I know at work it's all mac and the networking is sooo easy. The whole thing just works so much better. I just don't know. Any thoughts anyone? C'mon help a girl out! Keep in mind we're photographers, not video people so we don't need that much, but we do tend to run Bridge, PSCS3, Lightroom, Mail, and usually an internet browser all at the same time.

OK... get set.. GO!
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-25-2008, 2:28 PM Reply   
The insides of the machine aren't what makes Apple's stuff "just work." Apple uses Intel processors and Nvidia graphics cards and probably the same memory and hard drive components that can be found in any PC equivalent. In fact, if you go to build a Mac and then go to Dell's site (for example), you'll likely see the same exact choices of memory cards and processors.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-25-2008, 3:15 PM Reply   
Scott makes a good point about the "off the shelf" items that are common to both PCs and Macs. Apple made a big effort over 10 years ago to adopt "PC" standards in it's machines like USB, PCI busses, IDE interfaces and compatible video slots just so the mac could run off the shelf hardware. Apple hardware generally works more in harmony with it's parts because one company is engineering it all. That's really the reason Macs may be more reliable from a hardware stand point. Of course this comes at the expense of not being able to always use the myriad of hardware options that are available to PCs. I see tech savvy people liking PCs because they have the ability to work through those issues and use the latest/greatest processor/other hardware etc and build cutting edge machines. Until Apple decides to support it you ain't gonna be able to use it!

The answer as to why the Mac is so popular amongst graphics professionals is easy, Pagemaker and Photoshop were originally Mac programs, Apple got a large base of machines into that market early and the pros have stuck with them.
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-25-2008, 3:57 PM Reply   
Here's something to think about.
When Adobe upgrades CS3 to CS 4 this year it will only be available for PC.
Mac won't be ready for the upgrade until 9 to 12 mos later.
That's if you plan on upgrading.
I thought you would have heard that in one of the workshops at NAPP conference in Orlando .
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-25-2008, 5:59 PM Reply   
That long? I thought the main delay with CS3 was due to Adobe taking it's sweet time porting the entire program over to Intel native code.

Watch, Apple will retaliate by adding more photoshop features like layers to Aperture. And Apple has no problem giving away software to sell hardware. Two examples: Shake, originally a $10,000 PC only compositing program which Apple now sells for $399 (mac only of course) and Color, now part of the final cut Studio package, is film color grading software which used to sell for $25,000 I believe.

Even mighty Adobe isn't necessarily safe if Apple decides that cross platform software like photoshop isn't getting it's fair share of Mac features and/or development. Things got pretty dicey between the 2 over that CS3 release and it's timing. Adobe blamed Apple's lack of support for the port and the huge volume of code that had to be tweaked but they won't have that excuse with CS4.

But based on Phantom's post it sounds like, for the time being anyhow, Adobe may continue to thumb it's nose at Apple with Photoshop.
Old    Bess Marine (xtremebordgurl)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-25-2008, 7:17 PM Reply   
Well I did think it was interesting that one of the PC companies was sponsoring Photoshop World in Orlando... I wonder if the $$ have anything to do with it?

They didn't mention it at the conference, their big thing was pushing the lightroom 2.o beta.

So... is there a legit reason why Macs are the standard in imaging besides the fact that thats just what the originators are used to?
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-26-2008, 4:48 AM Reply   
It was mentioned on the last day of the conference either by Stephen Johnson, Dave Cross or someone in the one of the midday Digital photo tract classes. Can't remember it was too much info to process during that week.
It was nice that Lightroom had their own day/tract, but the Digital Photo tracts didn't focus much LR.
Anyhow it all boils down to the Carbon vs Cocoa factor.
Steve Jobs decided last year he was dropping the Carbon factor and going with Cocoa. Which the was surprising to many since Adobe and Apple worked pretty close with many projects. Especially a lot of PS people use Macs.

With that all said, rumors at the Apple World Conference ( which introduced the new IPhone) the next Mac OS ( 10.6) " Snow Leopard" will be cocoa exclusive. But that's another argument within itself.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/04/mac-os-x-10-6-called-snow-leopard-all-cocoa/

Maybe you can hold out for another 6 mos before you need to buy another computer.
Old    Bess Marine (xtremebordgurl)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-26-2008, 8:01 AM Reply   
OK.. this may be a stupid question... but... Carbon vs Cocoa? What exactly is that/does that mean? I know I should be waay more computer savvy than I am...
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-26-2008, 9:01 AM Reply   
Those were different programming libraries Apple augmented so SW mfg's could code Mac programs.

I kind of got things off topic here, I personally think it can be tough to go from a Mac to a PC unless you're willing to spend a little more time learning how the machines work from a setup standpoint. I haven't owned a PC for 15 years so my only basis for that statement is what I read. Guys like Joe and Dave build their own machines and have all that stuff figured out and seem completely happy in the PC world. I have a hard enough time keeping up with all the new software in the video/photography world, I don't want to waste time trouble shooting a computer.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-26-2008, 9:13 AM Reply   
macs are prettier. mac wins!



hi rich!
Old    Blaine Coury (krazywake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-26-2008, 9:29 AM Reply   
Personally, now with Intel being the standard in both platforms, the whole argument Mac vs. PC is pretty much mute. It basically boils down to which OS you like better and are more comfortable working in.

I personally have a PC as my main desktop and a 17" MacBook Pro as my mobile laptop. I use both for video and photo editing as well as a myriad of other tasks. I've gotten to love and hate them both for different reasons (if you care for me to delve into that, let me know). I also run a windows xp partition on my MBP so that I can open Premier Pro projects on location with clients if I've been editing at home on my PC.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-26-2008, 1:18 PM Reply   
Joe, where were you? this thread is 2 days old!!! (sheesh)

Seriously though, do you think what I said is accurate? or are PCs "idiot proof" these days?
Old    Jay (jay_g)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-26-2008, 1:25 PM Reply   
Since Mac's can now run Windows (Duel Boot or inside a VM) Id say go MAC and then you wopuld have the best of both worlds
Old    Bess Marine (xtremebordgurl)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-26-2008, 5:14 PM Reply   
OK, so now I've been doing some reading... and evidentally vista is evil? Haven't really been able to find out why though...

Blaine, do you find that either your mac or pc require any extra knowledge or attention? Keep in mind... as far as tech computer stuff goes I'm pretty lost...
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-26-2008, 7:23 PM Reply   
Bess - I'm not computer savvy either. I tried to look up the difference of carbon vs cocoa and lost a few brain cells.
But I go with what I already know and what I fits in my life and lifestyle.
Why make things more complicated than you it is already.
Old    Blaine Coury (krazywake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-26-2008, 7:34 PM Reply   
Bess,

Like others are saying, if you already know and love Mac OS, I'd say stick with that. PC's are still more susceptible to viruses it seems but being a computer savvy person, I don't really have a problem with that. People say that Mac OS is more stable and that windows crashes all the time. I have personally crashed both OS's on multiple occasions (I don't recommend multitasking while trying to render full 1080p compositions in After Effects on either OS, haha).

PC's to my knowledge are a bit easier to buy components for and upgrade and therefor more future proof if you will but I haven't owned a Mac desktop (G5 or iMac) so don't quote me on that.

As for Vista, I'm not a fan yet. I still run XP and won't make the switch until they either make Vista use less system resources or I buy a faster computer to where it doesn't matter.
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-27-2008, 7:38 AM Reply   
if you want a stable, plug and play machine that is pretty much virus free - then go mac. '

the mac os is so elegant and rock solid it blows away pc's (piece of crap).
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-27-2008, 10:51 AM Reply   
clubmyke, stop browsing pr0n sites and you won't have to worry about viruses.
Old    Blaine Coury (krazywake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-27-2008, 7:56 PM Reply   
hahaha
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-27-2008, 10:37 PM Reply   
yo - I run VISTA64 with 8GB of memory and it works just fine. With PPRO and AE open at the same time running dynamic link it doesn't get much better than that.

I own a PC and I don't wear a suit..

btw - a lot of the annoying VISTA features people complain about can be disabled.


p.s. Trying to Run VISTA with anything less than 2 GB of RAM is silly.. but with the price of RAM (non crap) these days you can loaded up with 8GB for around $300-400.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-28-2008, 5:18 AM Reply   
Dave, curious what your current system cost you including the operating system software?
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-28-2008, 7:26 AM Reply   
Here's a recent article by Popular Mechanics.

Mac vs. PC: The Ultimate Lab Test for New Desktops & Laptops

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-28-2008, 7:28 AM Reply   
Oh and to answer your question about why creative people use macs, its because more than likely that is what they learned on in school and college.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-28-2008, 9:56 AM Reply   
Oh man, the iMac earned 4.5 stars in Internet Surfing?? I'm totally buying one today!
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-28-2008, 12:12 PM Reply   
Rich - Here are the exact specs and the prices I paid for each item at the time of purchase (at today's prices you will probably save $300 - 500 of my listed prices)

Quad Core Intel, with 8 GB DDR2 memory, 150 GB 10k system drive, a 3.2 TB RAID-5, a 640 MB video card, a 1k (1,000 watt) power supply, and a HUGE case to fit all this and more.. for $4236.81


QTY Description New Egg Item # Price
1 x LIAN LI PC-201A Silver Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail N82E16811112108 $270
1 x ENERMAX GALAXY EGA1000EWL 1000W ATX / BTX Power Supply - Retail N82E16817194008 $370
1 x EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail N82E16813188013 $210
1 x Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model - Retail N82E16819115017 $200
2 x OCZ 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) OCZ2P8004GK - Retail N82E16820227248 $212
1 x EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail N82E1681413007 $375
1 x areca ARC-1220 PCI-Express x8 SATA II Controller Card - Retail N82E16816131004 $565
1 x Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM N82E16822136011 $205
8 x Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5000YS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM N82E16822136032 $1,640
1 x Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM N82E16832116215 $190



$4236.81
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-28-2008, 6:35 PM Reply   
No internal DVD burner? Are all 8 of those drives in your main case?
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-28-2008, 6:54 PM Reply   
Am I supposed to be wearing a suit?
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-28-2008, 7:48 PM Reply   
Yes, I have a DVD-DL Burner.. Opps.. Add $45.

Yes all 8 drives are in the case with room to spare. - The case can hold 12+ drives and that is why I have a 1K power supply.

Upload
Old    Travis V (cali_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       07-29-2008, 2:14 PM Reply   
That is sexy right there! i can only hold 4 drives

Western Digital drives hmmm?

Dave, just curious..... why go with western digital over Hitachi?
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-02-2008, 1:22 PM Reply   
joe brings up a good point on why macs are better than a pc- u can surf porn sites without the risk of a virus
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-02-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
Travis - They are RAID specific drives.

I've been using WD for loong time and I've never had problems.. I just recently threw Seagates into the mix and they have been holding up too.
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-06-2008, 10:10 AM Reply   
I haven't seen any of my friends' macs that run better than my Alienware..

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