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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       06-25-2008, 6:56 PM Reply   
In this thread:

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/589770.html?1214425214

Tim Lopes who is considered by most to be the "godfather" of wakesurfing and who was also something like the VP of manufacturing with Fineline Industries / Centurion Boats in Merced and left that company to work for Calabria. In that thread Tim states:

"Ive found some of the best wakes behind I.Os. No need for sideswipe, they exhausts out the prop. You can trim with the out drive and shape the wake to massive size. All the talk about hitting the prop is just propaganda created by the inboard boat builders to scare people into buying there products. I should know!"

What does everyone think? This is the opinion of someone that is INSIDE the boat building industry.
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       06-25-2008, 7:10 PM Reply   
Very interesting. I can see where with an experienced rider this may be the case as they are able to control their placement on the wake better. But with beginners, I have seen quite a few put boards right under the platform and almost kiss the boat, don't know how well that outcome would be with an I/O, especially one without any platform (although that seems top be uncommon now). I have surfed behind outboards when I first started playing around with a surf board on the water around 2000. I had no other options at the time but I wanted to surf behind the boat. Looking back, it wasn't the best idea I've ever had, but definitely not the worst, luckily I came out in one piece. I'll be interested to see where the community stands on this one


Here's a link to a thread about the new Chaparral Sunesta wake specific I/O boat

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/594536.html?1214445409

(Message edited by bac on June 25, 2008)
Old    Ron Zap (zapisor)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-25-2008, 7:37 PM Reply   
My 13 year old accidentally surfed on to the platform twice while we were out last monday. We trying new ballast set up and he came off the wave in a hurry....

If it were an I/O he would have been on the prop no matter what the folks at Chaparell tell you.

Poop happens no matter how good you are, what if the I/O stalled or mis fired? you would catch it.

What if the driver dropped his beverage, or his cig on his crotch, or reached over to answer the cell phone and his knee hit the throttle up, towards neutral and the boat slowed down in a hurry?

Yes the sport was invented behind an I/O, but back in the day drinking and drag racing was also the norm.

Sorry Jeff,

I hope I'm not coming across rude, I just think anyone selling and I/O as a surf boat should be charged with criminal negligence, and is just trying to screw someone over for a dollar.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-25-2008, 7:49 PM Reply   
Jeff, although Tim may be the GodFather of wakesurfing, he is on a different side of the fence - note I did not say wrong side.

I do not believe MerCruiser or any I/O boat manufacture will support the sport. If any of the above wish to prove me wrong speak up and be heard. If not the question is mute
Old    Greg "The Hammer" (leaks)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-25-2008, 8:11 PM Reply   
Someday "God Father" Tim will wake up with a horse head in HIS bed.
Surfing behind an I/O is just asking for some major accident to happen. Probably sooner than later.
I don't care how experienced of a rider you are, falls are not always controllable.
JMO
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       06-25-2008, 8:17 PM Reply   
Hey Ron, no apologies necessary, I'm not supporting Tim's statement - just found it interesting and was wanted to know what others thought.

Chris, Tim is no longer working for an inboard manufacturer or are you saying just that his opinion is of the minority?
Old    mobster            06-25-2008, 8:26 PM Reply   
Upload We did a test of the Chaparral 264 With counter rotating props We could not get a wave to surf without a rope wave at 20 mph
Upload
UploadUploadUpload
Upload
Upload
UploadWhen we let go of the rope the boat was so far past the rider the props never came into play More of a high speed ride not for kids or newbies. Only for the Pro skill level surfer . It wasn't worth surfing behind this boat
Old    guido (bluto)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-25-2008, 8:27 PM Reply   
Maybe Tim needs to start taking his medicine again. Then again if he in fact did spread that rumor then I am sure he also spread the rumor that the Enzo is the world's best wakesurf boat when he was at Centurion.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-25-2008, 8:28 PM Reply   
I wonder what your insurance company would say about surfing behind an I/O?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       06-25-2008, 8:31 PM Reply   
Tim was referencing a HUGE I/O like a 28' to 30' boat, in lieu of the Enzo. J.L. 20 mph? So the REAL risk with surfing an I/O is coronary arrest? :-) I would have had a heart attack trying to stay with that wake!

Greg, you know I always shared that same opinion and then I read that statement by Tim and I was wondering: is there any emperical evidence to support the danger? I've read that the force from the prop is so strong and the movement away from the rider, like J.L. indicates, is such that falling into the prop is virtually impossible.

Just wondering if that is true?
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       06-25-2008, 8:39 PM Reply   
Ron, glad to hear that your little one was ok. I'm not buying what Chaparall is trying to sell, I've seen firsthand what an I/O will do to someone when they get too close to the boat, luckily he was able to keep his arm, after 2 operations from nasty infections and 2 weeks in ICU (granted, he wasn't surfing and it was more of a freakish accident). However I felt that post very relevant to the topic, as Chaparall is the first manufacturer I have seen actually put out an ad like that, while not targeting surfers directly, it could lead downhill fast for them if surfers should start using their product thinking that they will be perfectly safe because of that picture (and I know there is someone somewhere that just got sold by that ad, thinking "well why would they print it if it wasn't true?" gee, I don't know, maybe so you buy their boat instead. On that note, how can one truly prove what is safe and what isn't on the water behind a boat? I've never seen a crash test dummy that surfed. Sure, reason works, but not for everyone. As for me, I won't be surfing behind anything but an inboard.

(Message edited by bac on June 25, 2008)
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-25-2008, 9:02 PM Reply   
What if your hand falls not directly behind the prop but off to the side? There has to be some feedback from front to back.

I don't know. I don't think I want to test the idea.
Old    mobster            06-25-2008, 10:00 PM Reply   
Like is said at regular surfing speeds this boat did not make a wave at all .The price on this boat was so high I doubt that they will be bought for surfing .I'm not saying that I encourage any one to surf behind a I/O, Some people use the wrong equipment for the job all the time. Surf safe Upload
Old    Kevin (deltaboy)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-26-2008, 9:28 AM Reply   
Someone needs to send this thread to Mythbusters.
Old    Kevin (deltaboy)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-26-2008, 9:33 AM Reply   
JL I notice the trim tabs on the sides, not going to link the thread from before but there was talk of doing this to our inboards and was curious if it helped at all to list the boat?

(Message edited by deltaboy on June 26, 2008)
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-26-2008, 11:28 AM Reply   
Go to howtowakesurf.com and check out the pic of the shredded hand. this should help make your decision whether you want to surf behind a I/O. your choice, learn on your own if you dont want to take the industries advice.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       06-26-2008, 11:48 AM Reply   
That is a nasty picture, but the guy who posted
it said he wasn't sure where it came from and
there was no published report linked to that
thread. On the URL, Larry is careful to say he
got it from WW.com, not that it was from surfing
an I/O or any other substantiation. Also, Larry
says - if you can SEE the prop, don't wakesurf
it. I wonder if that is the restriction, if
there is an adequate swimdeck?


http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/216958.html?1115867959


It's interesting how this stuff works and maybe
that is what Tim is talking about, we take some
of this stuff as gospel without checking it
out. I'm not recommending anyone wakesurf an
I/O. I just think it's interesting what we take
as fact. The guy who posted that picture starts
his post with: Semi True :-) because he didn't
have the details and posted up the story
acknowledging that it was secondhand.


(Message edited by surfdad on June 26, 2008)
Old    Ken Toby (towboat_222)      Join Date: Feb 2007       06-26-2008, 2:42 PM Reply   
I sell Sea Ray and Centurion. Anybody that wakes surfs behind a i/o is nuts. Suisisurfing anyone we tell everyone that comes in the store that. Sea Ray putts as big as swimplatform as Chaparral and we surf all the time but no way behind a Sea Ray. Now we have the cruiser when they are inboard.
Old    waterdog (h20k9)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-27-2008, 10:18 AM Reply   
we were surfing a 45 carver with twin screws..bunch of people,trim taps listing it to the port side,the wave was 5 foot..good times till a not so advanced rider was trying airs,crashed normally off the back,launched the board half way under the swim platform..i watched the prop wash suction from the counter rotating screws actually sucked the board into the props,reminded me of a farking giant tree shredder..please believe me, this is not a lesson ya want to learn the hard way.imo this break is pro only

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