Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through May 12, 2008

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Garen Gervey (gdouble)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-30-2008, 4:10 PM Reply   
With all this talk about ridiculous gas prices for this coming summer and beyond, it got me thinking, what boat throws the best (all around) wake naturally w/ about 6-8 people. No Ballast, wedge or wakeplate is acceptable.

If this has already been discussed please direct me to the thread w/ a link, I couldn't find one.

Thanks

G
Old    Patrick Fort (pfort)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-30-2008, 4:17 PM Reply   
Stock wake on the Supra 22 or 24 is pretty nice.
Old    Ryan D (ogopogo)      Join Date: May 2005       04-30-2008, 4:38 PM Reply   
VLX
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-30-2008, 4:38 PM Reply   
Supreme v208 Fer Sure!!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       04-30-2008, 4:43 PM Reply   
Not sure but going to guess a anything that is on the narrow side. With 6-8 people some of the boats that may do good that come to mind are the Sanger V10 or a pre 2007 SAN.
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       04-30-2008, 4:44 PM Reply   
2oo1 or 210
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       04-30-2008, 4:48 PM Reply   
"No Ballast, wedge or wakeplate is acceptable."

I would think that rules out every option I would have otherwise mentioned...
Old    Mike G (mike_gilbert)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-30-2008, 5:02 PM Reply   
210
Old    Baron Phillips (phil06140)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-30-2008, 5:04 PM Reply   
an older CC 210 with 6-8 people (800-1200lbs) is more of a wake than most people need... whenever my friend and I have learned/landed our more tech moves it was normally just the stock 850 and 3 to 4 people.
I'm sure any other small v-drive is about the same story.
Old    Justin (jusstty)      Join Date: Dec 2006       04-30-2008, 5:25 PM Reply   
VLX
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       04-30-2008, 5:30 PM Reply   
I boarded behind many vlx's Moomba XLV Calabria Pro V Sangers Centurians MB's Mastercrafts and I would have to say it's all about preference. There truly is no one best stock wake. But there maybe one you like just a little better then all the rest. It comes down to oppinion.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-30-2008, 5:37 PM Reply   
i think he means no ballast whatsoever. not even stock ballast. just a dry boat. if thats what were coming to count me out. too boring for me. all wakes with no weight in the boat are small, and hardly have any shape difference to them
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-30-2008, 5:40 PM Reply   
I would second the SAN and sanger 210's
Old    Josh Weitekamp (da_kamp)      Join Date: Jan 2008       04-30-2008, 5:43 PM Reply   
Supra's and sangers do in my experience. I love natural wakes ! peaky wakes = my mortal enemy
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-30-2008, 6:04 PM Reply   
210 with 10 people in it.
Old    james adams (iluvrussell)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-30-2008, 6:04 PM Reply   
yeah jason, i couldnt ride with no weigth!! although i have when butter is present and there are no fat sacs within fifty miles.
i love riding into a wall of water that just throws me staight up!!!!!

but in regards to the thread topic, i havent ever been behind a nautiqe that ive been disapointed with, and i rode behind my friends 216 with no weight(dang the pumps broken!) and couldnt complain.
Old    Rich Jennings (96formula)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-30-2008, 6:12 PM Reply   
Sanger 215 bagged down.
Old    Tim Parsons (slowake)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-30-2008, 6:18 PM Reply   
check out the Epic with no weight in it. It has the drop zone hull which works like the reverse an airplane wing that creates lift but it creates suction down to the water up to about 26-28 mph. The first time I drove one with no weight and 2 people it looked like the wake of other boats that had ballast. I know you say no trim tabs on here but the wake plate does let you adjust the shape of the wake with out any weight in it. Very nice without any ballast.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-30-2008, 6:28 PM Reply   
toss up between a vlx and a 210.
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-30-2008, 6:33 PM Reply   
Why no wake plate? I can't imagine they make much of an detrimental impact to your mileage...

Get a canoe or a dragon boat... load it up with like 30 paddlers, sorted. Oh, you'll need to chuck an elevated tow point on that bad boy too.
Old    Kimmy (kimmy)      Join Date: Aug 2001       04-30-2008, 6:38 PM Reply   
I love all boats but I love the Supra SSV the best. Maybe cause that was my last boat I had. I miss her!
Old    Clubjoe (clubjoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-30-2008, 6:41 PM Reply   
No ballast, but wedge and wakeplate? I can see the adjusted plate being a consideration, but including the wedge would be like me saying only Pure Vert System(tm) as the only consideration to the bare hull.......

With my limited experience, I'd have to agree with Umali (ughh ) depending on the type of wake you prefer......VLX for me (after the Pro-V of course )

j/k Joe!
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-30-2008, 7:29 PM Reply   
when you guys say the 210 you talking about the sanger v210 or a nautique 210?

I usually skate behind a nautique team edition with no extra weight and its an awesome wake
Old    Paul Bernier (wakeriderixi)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-30-2008, 8:23 PM Reply   
Super Air 210 for sure.... That boat lays claim to any mention of just '210', everyone else MUST explain further.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-30-2008, 8:48 PM Reply   
a wake plate does not increase the size of the wake at all. in fact it actually decreaces the size by creating lift on the hull against the water. the original reason for them was to help the boat get up on plane better because the hulls were too deep. with the plate up it just lets the hull drop down to its natural position
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-30-2008, 10:23 PM Reply   
Bah, pointless question IMO. The real question what boat produces the biggest usable wake at the lowest GPH. Its not really relevant if you use ballast/wedge/wakeplate, the only relevant question is running cost vs wake.

To answer that question in my experience best:
1. SN2001
2. SAN210 pre 07
3. Sanger V210

Worst:
1. X-star post 05
2. VLX on dimond hull pre 05

But there are tonnes of old and new boats I don't have experience with.
Old    Scott Legge (w00taz)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-30-2008, 10:54 PM Reply   
You should stack my centurion elite V on that list. I have a very difficult time spending more than 60 bucks a day in gas for just the boat. That is hit the water soon after sunrise and pull out in the dark. I use the stock internal ballast ~300 lbs 2x vdrive bags ~400 ea the integrated bow bag another 200 bag and a 400 in the walkway ~1700lbs water weight plus 3-5 people. I have the black scorpion 330hp
Old    CMC X Stars (02wakesettervlx)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-01-2008, 2:44 AM Reply   
40 foot Carver
Old    Raymond Foster (burban89)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-01-2008, 5:02 AM Reply   
I own a 84 SN2001 and the wake is nice with a few people in the boat and no ballast. I dont think it is all that bad on gas weighted either.
Old    eric (eas)      Join Date: Nov 2001       05-01-2008, 6:43 AM Reply   
Shawn may be right! I rode behind a 32' Cobalt for kicks once, and although it was very wide, the wake was BIG.....
Old    Chris (whitlecj)      Join Date: Apr 2004       05-01-2008, 7:29 AM Reply   
Pre 07 210 for sure.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       05-01-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
Pre 07 SAN 210
Old    Jesse Johnston (watersnake)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-01-2008, 9:38 AM Reply   
What about the Tige, with their Convex V hull??
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-01-2008, 10:59 AM Reply   
how reliable are the 2001's?
the SAN210 is kind of pricey for me being a first time boat buyer.

The sanger v210 is pretty affordable or a centurion enzo i think
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-01-2008, 11:17 AM Reply   
goride, I've found my 88 SN 2001 to be extremely reliable but it depends on what condition it was kept in.

For not knowing much about engines it has been a wonderful boat to learn about mechanical things on. I've had help from people on here (Thanks again Rodney!) and from other wesbites as well. I love mine and many people with "bigger" wakes have commented on how much firmer my wake is.
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-01-2008, 11:20 AM Reply   
my girl is being a natzi about having an older boat like that but ill have to seduce her with my sexual ways and alcohol. Mostly the alcohol or ill let her go on a shopping spree for clothes(that always works)
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-01-2008, 11:29 AM Reply   
If I were you I would try and find a Sanger V210. They haven't changed much and you can get them from the late 90's to current and from teen's up to around 30k.
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-01-2008, 11:33 AM Reply   
ive seen some low hr v210s going for $20k which isnt bad at all. Or i can spend $10 to 12K for an older 2001.

If i can find a SAN210 in the low 20's ill be pretty sold. Since thats one of my favorite boats to ride behind.
Old    John Marshall (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-01-2008, 11:39 AM Reply   
I love the MC 205V hull. I rode a 205V in a shallow lake with 3 people in the boat and while the wake was small the shape was very workable.

Judging from the posts everyone is making, a narrow beam makes for a better wake when you take ballast out of consideration.
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-01-2008, 11:41 AM Reply   
kinda makes sense to me. THe wider the boat the more surface area and the more float it will have. A narrower beam has less surface area making the hull sit deeper in the water creating a better wake.

I could be an idiot and be completely wrong though. Good chance.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       05-01-2008, 12:26 PM Reply   
"kinda makes sense to me. THe wider the boat the more surface area and the more float it will have. A narrower beam has less surface area making the hull sit deeper in the water creating a better wake."

your close... the wake will be bigger with less weight, but it doesnt really mean it will be better. wake shape and firmness are what make a good wake. it could be a huge wake, but also be a vert wall and so soft that you just get sucked into the wake
Old    John Marshall (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-01-2008, 12:49 PM Reply   
So then what hull charactersitics make a wake firmer vs. softer?

I know I have read somewhere that the water between the wakes is responsible for how "firm" a wake is. The less difference there is between the peak of the wake and the mid point between the two wakes the firmer the wake.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-01-2008, 1:19 PM Reply   
Over Christmas we towed 30 sets with the boat setup like this:
Upload
(for reference I am 6ft, 200 pounds ride @23mph on 80ft line)

Everybody was int to adv and had reasonable length sets. We averaged 2.8 gallons per set. No not cheap but still good value IMO.

I'd be real interested to know what Nick in the TC uses per set, his wake looks at least as big with his Super sport.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-01-2008, 1:22 PM Reply   
Our Supersport Nautique (1995-200?) is the same hull as the old SuperAir 210 and it was 18k and in perfect shape, the wake with only 1500lbs is AMAZING
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-01-2008, 3:18 PM Reply   
how much weight is that darren?
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-01-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
Whats the difference between "no ballast" and 8 people LOL.
Old    Jeremy Krenek (crowmobe540)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-01-2008, 3:35 PM Reply   
I am a nautique guy all the way. To answer your question I would have to say the supra 21v.

On a side note, I would rather ride less with weight than ride more without. Even if gas gets to 100 bucks a gallon. you still gotta have weight
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-01-2008, 6:35 PM Reply   
Tige would be your best. but since you said no wake plate a old school CC210. but any v drive tige 03 and up makes a nice wake w/o weight. i run my 03 with 6-8 people and the wake is very nice, yes it gets better with ballast but its really not needed to make a nice wake. stock boat puts out a really nice wake and 335hp marine power 5.7L uses 3.5-4 gph.
Old    Shane Lafferty (pickle311)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-01-2008, 6:56 PM Reply   
I find it very funny that no one has mentioned Tige since they advertise "no ballast"
Old    Boardingitup.com (wakeboard19)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-01-2008, 7:11 PM Reply   
definetely not an x star
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       05-01-2008, 7:19 PM Reply   
i would say a 100 foot yaght (sp) has the best natural wake
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-01-2008, 7:57 PM Reply   
97 Super Sport Nautique



But seriously though, old hull 210's/SSN are great without any weight and only get better with more weight
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-01-2008, 8:50 PM Reply   
Kev, just under 2k
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-01-2008, 9:02 PM Reply   
got some kick to it? it sure looks like it. cant wait for mine to be fixed then ill be running 1900 lbs. i got one test run in with that much weight and it was HUGE but it was too cold to ride. then the boat broke.
Old    Antbug (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-01-2008, 10:32 PM Reply   
I rode the new X-35 on Monday with no ballast (long story) and the wake was really nice.
Old    Mike Oakman (milehighrider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       05-01-2008, 10:51 PM Reply   
i'm with the tige. and the obvious older san.
Old    Baron Phillips (phil06140)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-01-2008, 11:04 PM Reply   
What about the MC X-1? I can't see that needing much weight since it is pretty darn small... anyone with some know on this boat?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-01-2008, 11:32 PM Reply   
I used an X-1 as the "work" and I only ran stock ballast since it wasn't my boat...but on my friends X-1 it takes at least 2k worth of water to get a wake out of it... otherwise its just really soft


This is 95' Supersport Nautique
1300 or 1400 lbs of water - 2 people in the boat
hard to beat the 210 hull

Upload
Upload
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-01-2008, 11:37 PM Reply   
Thats what I'm talking about - FAT. Do you know how much per set Nick?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-02-2008, 9:15 AM Reply   
about 1.5/2 gallons, give or take.
We get about 3/4 sets (depending time) out of a 1/4 tank

its really not to bad...its really only my friend and I (we co-own the boat)we use it...so we both take a run or two...cruise a little and its about a 6 gallon or so fill up to keep things even.
Old    Hunter (hunterw)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-02-2008, 6:12 PM Reply   
Im right there with Scott on the Elite V. I own one so of course I will be partial but the longer thru the day you run with a COMPLETLY dry boat the smaller the wake is going to be due to the fact that you are burning fuel which in turn leads to less weight. I can run all day with 1400lbs of ballast and 4 or 5 people that will put out a stupid steep wake and not spend more than 75 bucks in fuel. Ya can look at it one way or another but it all comes down to just going out and having fun. You cant take your money with you so enjoy things now while you can because tomorrow is not promised so LIVE IT UP!!!
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-02-2008, 6:40 PM Reply   
can you please help me understand what your talking about when you say x-gallons per set. i understand gallons/hr. but what makes a set. this does not seem to be an accurate way to keeep track since everyones set/ride time could be different. thanks im just trying to understand. at the end of the day its about how much time you ran compared to how many gallons used. 5hrs/25 gallons=5gph. so how does the "SET" work out? thanx
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-03-2008, 2:21 PM Reply   
I use gallons per set because its easier for me to accurately remember sets we towed vs how many hrs we have run. And of course people pay there way going on how many sets they take not how many engine hours they burn.

Also there is a big variation between guys who start the boat at the beginning of the day and don't turn it back off until they are on the trailer vs those that stop and start between sets.

In our boat I would estimate we are running around 4 gallons per hr but i guess I would have to keep a log to work it out exactly. Keeping a log seems a bit OCD to me.
Old    Goride (goride)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-03-2008, 2:53 PM Reply   
we rode 12 hrs straight behind a san210 with 4 people on one tank of gas. I thought that was pretty good idk...

I prefer gallons per set because it eliminates cruising costs cause some drivers like to cruise and drink instead of riding and im down to ride not waste money to party when i can drive my 36mpg car to a bar to party.
Old    Trevor (hawk7)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-03-2008, 3:38 PM Reply   
Actually I'm going to have to agree w/ the X-1. With No Ballast [3 people in boat] It kicked me up farther than I've been before, I haven't ridden behind all the boats in the industry though,

2006 MasterCraft X-Star
2001 Nautique 210
2006 Nautique 210
2007 Nautique 210
2007 Malibu VLX
2007 MasterCraft X-2
2003 Supreme 208
2007 MB Tomcat
2005 Malibu vRide
2006 MasterCraft X-1
2005 Sanger [Something]
2002 Four Winns
1994 SeaRay 150 HP
1999 10 HP 9 Ft Alumaweld [this was the second best ]

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:38 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us