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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through March 24, 2008

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Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-14-2008, 10:47 AM Reply   
Just got done installing amp w/ 4- 6 1/2's and a 12" sub. When i crank it up the stereo shuts off and comes back on. It continues to do that until i turn the volume down a little. What could be the problem?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-14-2008, 11:16 AM Reply   
Is the stereo head unit or the amp(s) shutting off? How did you go about setting the gains. Could be a "whisker" (stray strand of wire) across the speaker channels. How is your battery voltage? Could also be a pinched speaker wire.
Old    Scott (pdqwrx)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-14-2008, 11:23 AM Reply   
More then likely a low voltage (Dead battery) situation or a low impedance situation. if the amp is running all 4 6 1/2's on the front 2 channels that is probably a 2 ohm load and mono to a 4 ohm sub is 2 ohms bridged. Many amps don't like that type of load. You battery needs to be 12.4 or higher.

Good Luck
Scott
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-14-2008, 11:46 AM Reply   
I'm with scott on this one.
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-14-2008, 12:05 PM Reply   
I'm assuming it's probably a 4-channel amp?? Sounds like an ohm load problem to me from wiring to put too much load on the amp... but could also just be low voltage shutting off the amp -- which could be caused by a bad ground or power connection. Let us know a bit more info:

1) What brand and model amp?
2) Are your speakers 4-ohm (most are 4 ohms)?
3) What impedance is the sub? And is it single or dual voice coil (and if it is a dual voice coil, is it wired in parrallel or a series?)
4) Specifically... how do you have it all wired?
Old    Dennis (denwbaseball)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-14-2008, 12:29 PM Reply   
Hows your ground looking? Do you have it on the neg. terminal?
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-14-2008, 8:18 PM Reply   
It is a memphis belle 5-channnel amp. It only does it when the boat is not running. Both of the batteries have a full charge.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-14-2008, 8:18 PM Reply   
I'm with Scott on this one too. I've been down this road specifically with my sub. Anything over 20 on my HU volume would shut it down until I lowered the volume. Once I threw a charger on it's dedicated battery it solved the problem and I bet it will your's too.

I suppose another possibility could be to small of power cable too.

(Message edited by hate&pain on March 14, 2008)
Old    Dave Gast (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-14-2008, 8:24 PM Reply   
Sounds like a typical voltage drop. How old are the batteries. Have them checked. Two batteries should be plenty for that setup
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-14-2008, 8:32 PM Reply   
Two brand new blue tops. My question is when you wire the two batteries together does the ground for the second battery need to run back to the engine block or run to the negative post of the other battery?
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-14-2008, 8:57 PM Reply   
Would a ground problem cause engine noise to be coming out of the tower speakers?
Old    Scott (pdqwrx)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-15-2008, 1:22 AM Reply   
Neal- The fact that you have the problem when the boat is off really points to a voltage issue somewhere. Just because the batteries are new does not mean the batteries are charged. You should drop a good charger on each of them for a day to make sure you have them FULLY charged. As for your engine noise...There are a ton of places where noise can creep into a system. But, with a multi channel amp and noise ONLY coming from the tower, I would check two things next-all the connections on the tower speakers and make sure that one of the speaker grounds isn't some how shorted to metal and 2) That you don't have a bad RCA cable. The other way to test this is to unplug all the RCA's from the amp and power it on. If you still have the noise then it is probably a speaker wire issue or a bad amp. If it goes away then it is probably ahead of the amp which would leave the RCA Cables, Radio and any type of EQ you may have. As for battery wiring, perhaps you can draw us a diagram of how you have things set up and post it. There are some many variables that we would need to know.

Good Luck
Scott
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-15-2008, 7:55 AM Reply   
put a volt meter on the batts crank it up i can assure you the batts the amps are hooked to are dropping below 10.5volts and the amps are shutting down.
Old    Byron (bkoz)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-15-2008, 9:43 AM Reply   
"My question is when you wire the two batteries together does the ground for the second battery need to run back to the engine block or run to the negative post of the other battery?"

Can someone answer this ?,thanks.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-15-2008, 9:53 AM Reply   
"My question is when you wire the two batteries together does the ground for the second battery need to run back to the engine block or run to the negative post of the other battery?"

when you parallel 2 batteries together, you need to have the Positive (+) of 1 to the Positive (+) of the 2nd, and the Neg (-) of 1 to the Neg (-) of the 2nd. At least one of the batteries needs to be grounded to the engine block to complete the circuit, or the batteries will never receive a charge from the Alt.

You can also run both Negatives (-) to the engine block, but is recommended that they both be under the same bolt/nut.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-15-2008, 10:42 AM Reply   
I have the ground for the second battery hooked to the ground of the first. So if I take that off and run the ground from the second to the engine block will that help or fix the problem?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-15-2008, 10:55 AM Reply   
I have the ground for the second battery hooked to the ground of the first. So if I take that off and run the ground from the second to the engine block will that help or fix the problem?

Is the GND for Batt 1 grounded to the block? if so, no, 6 one, half dozen the other.

If you have a Volt meter, you need to check the "at rest" voltage at each battery, (with the parallel ground disconnected) and the check the voltage at both batteries (ground reattached) with engine running to see if both are seeing Alt output voltage.

(Message edited by chpthril on March 15, 2008)
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-15-2008, 11:11 AM Reply   
Either diagram will work

Upload
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-15-2008, 11:42 AM Reply   
I will try this and see what happens. Thanks for all the help.
Old    Scott (pdqwrx)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-15-2008, 5:32 PM Reply   
TigeMike great diagrams...There should almost be a sticky about some of these posts.
Old    eric ivey (ericlee)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-15-2008, 6:22 PM Reply   
100% your batteries are low....Charge them up...I had the same problem and when I would turn the volume up in would shut off then come on after a few seconds...Not getting enough power to them since your batteries are low
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2008, 6:43 AM Reply   
Thanks Scott, I just hope it's a simple fix for Neal.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-16-2008, 7:54 AM Reply   
Everyone keeps saying low batteries, here is the deal. I started having this problem during the install with everything shutting down. So we finished the install thinking that the problem was that the batteries were going dead. So after everything was finished i took both batteries out and charged them both. I then put them back in and had the exact same problem. So i dont think it is that the batteries are low. I thinking more along the lines of a ground issue. Once again thanks for everyones help.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2008, 8:04 AM Reply   
I thinking more along the lines of a ground issue

what size (gauge) amp wire are you using? Just one amp, correct?

Can you run the engine on water source like fake-a-lake or in a slip? If so, check voltage at the amp and watch it while you turn up the volume and the problem happens.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2008, 8:21 AM Reply   
Are you using the MCH600 5chnl?

It's specs are:
class D sub = 400W @ 1 Ohm
class A/B = 55W x 4 @ 4ohm

Based on this I think you are ok with the 4 speakers and Sub as the problem is only present while running off the batteries only and not with engine running. If it were due to low Impedance on one or more channels, it should be present any time the volume is turned up.

Double check how the batteries are wired. It's really time to get a DVOM on this thing.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-16-2008, 9:07 AM Reply   
TigeMike-yes that is the amp that am I running. the batteries are wired like the second diagram that you posted. I am going to go through and check all the wiring again and see what i find.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-16-2008, 9:18 AM Reply   
I am running 4-gauge wire for the amp. The amp is also running through a breaker could this have anything to do with it? Sorry for all the questions but the problem is i had a buddy do the install for me and i know nothing about wiring. I would have him help me with the problem but we live in different states. }
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2008, 9:28 AM Reply   
No prob Neal, the more questions you ask and answer, the closer you get to the solution.

4ga wire is perfect, you're good there. What amp rating is the breaker? And have you looked to see if it is tripping? IMO, a manual reset breaker is better then a fuse, but like fuses, they must be of proper amp rating for the intended load.

Do you have a Volt/Ohm Meter? I think we have gone as far as we can with out knowing some actual voltage readings.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-16-2008, 9:43 AM Reply   
Yes i have a multimeter. As for the breaker it is not tripping. What do I need to check using the multimeter?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2008, 10:02 AM Reply   
1st: disconnect the ground linking batt1 to batt2 so you can see the at rest voltage of each battery.

Both should be about the same reading, and over 12.5, 12.8+ is ideal.

2nd: with all cables hooked up, engine running, check for alternator charge voltage at each battery and at the Amp. We know the problem doesn't surface with engine running, but doesn't hurt to see what the Alt is doing.

You should see over 13 volts and both batteries and amp should be within a couple tenths of a volt of each other.

3rd with everything hooked up, engine OFF, check voltage at the amp with system OFF.

Should be with in a couple tenths of a volt to the battery readings in step 1.

4th: turn stereo on, note voltage at the amp. slowly turn volume up and note voltage when system cuts off.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-16-2008, 10:10 AM Reply   
TigeMike- When i get a chance to do all of this i will give you an update with the info. Hopefully this will tell us what we need. Once again thanks for the help.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 3:32 PM Reply   
Alright- I checked the volts on each battery. At Rest both were at 12.6v. Same at the amp also.

Turned the stereo on and started cranking it up everything shuts off it seems like when the volts get down to about 12.0.

As soon as everything shuts off volts go back up to around 12.5 and everything comes right back on.

I dont have a clue. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2008, 3:45 PM Reply   
I dont see the answer, so let me ask again just to be sure: Is it the amp or the head unit shutting down.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 4:05 PM Reply   
everything is shutting down.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2008, 4:07 PM Reply   
everything is shutting down.

where is the head unit's power and ground coming from?
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 4:10 PM Reply   
im not sure what you mean as for what battery or what
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 4:37 PM Reply   
I think it is getting its power from the distribution block under the dash.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2008, 4:51 PM Reply   
im not sure what you mean as for what battery or what

I think it is getting its power from the distribution block under the dash

OK, this may take a little bit of rewiring, but move the head unit's power and ground to the amp's power and ground, so the amp and head unit are see the same voltage from the same source.

Reason being, the head unit provides the "on" signal for the amp, so if the head unit drop out, the amp thinks it was turned off, and then shuts down.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 5:07 PM Reply   
Ok I see where we are going with this. Once i get a chance to do this i will let u know how it works out. Once again thanks
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2008, 5:11 PM Reply   
Neal,
quick ???, do you have a 3rd battery in the boat that is dedicated to starting, etc. If so, is it low?
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 5:14 PM Reply   
No there is not a third battery.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 5:16 PM Reply   
I have two batteries wired somewhat like the second diagram you posted. The only difference being the positives of both batteries run to a disconnect switch. If that makes any sense.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2008, 5:31 PM Reply   
I have two batteries wired somewhat like the second diagram you posted. The only difference being the positives of both batteries run to a disconnect switch. If that makes any sense.

Ok, do this, before you cut the wires for the head unit, check the voltage across the power and ground. May need to back probe the connector so be careful. If the head unit is running of the same 2 batteries, but through a dist block and or ignition switch, then it should see the same voltage as the amps do. If not, then you have a poor connection between the batteries and the dist block.

Take that voltage reading and then rewire and see if the problem goes away.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-17-2008, 5:33 PM Reply   
TigeMike- One more thing the power block is getting its power directly from the battery. The only thing is that the wire coming from the battery going into the power block is 6 gauge. what do you think.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2008, 5:37 PM Reply   
Should not be a problem, the head unit does not require a lot of current, but does need proper voltage to operate.
Old    neal sharum (moomba55)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-19-2008, 6:20 PM Reply   
Just an update. I got the problem fixed. Turned out that the head unit did not have a good enough ground. I thought since it was the factory deck with the factory wiring that it would be OK but i was wrong. Thanks for everyone's help.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2008, 7:29 PM Reply   
Good deal.
Old    Scott (pdqwrx)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-19-2008, 7:43 PM Reply   
Congrats....

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