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Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       02-18-2008, 10:38 AM Reply   
Sorry if you were hoping for content here, but I was wondering if anyone has ever drafted a do's and don'ts guide on bumming pulls and giving pulls?

I realize this its common sense for a lot of us but I am looking for something for the noobs.
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-18-2008, 10:50 AM Reply   
A good start

http://www.wakeworld.com/articles/2002/thatguy.asp
Old    Josh Weitekamp (da_kamp)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-18-2008, 11:15 AM Reply   
SWEET !

looks like I've been doing everything right
Old    Scott Dearduff (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2008, 12:19 PM Reply   
That is a good link but that thing needs updated. It cost me more then $5 to ride a set it actually takes about 5 gallons to run for 30 min. and at current prices that is $16
Old    Peter Moss (pete_moss)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-18-2008, 12:36 PM Reply   
I'm a noob and unfortunately don't have my own boat. I don't know how long a "set" is. Is it however long you go without falling or is it more of a timed event. I've always tried to keep it about as long as everyone else rides but the reason they quit is because they're horribly out of shape and are too tired to go on. I feel like I could go for days but obviously I always end short because I don't want to be that guy.....so what's a good indicator
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       02-18-2008, 12:48 PM Reply   
The post above is a great reason why someone or someone's need to put together a simple do's and don'ts list.

Obv 1. would be pay at least 10 dollar per set and number 2. could be Keep your set under 30 minutes or 5 falls.
Old    Mike K (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-18-2008, 12:49 PM Reply   
Sounds like you have the right idea comparing against others in the boat. I think it also depends how good you are relative to others on the boat. If you're out there just ripping it, people tend to not mind a longer set. But if you're just starting/falling alot, the time seems to take longer. Hopefully though you have a good group you ride with and they're more stoked on you getting the hang of it and landing first tricks than just their own riding.
Old    James Caughlen (texasmasterc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-18-2008, 1:04 PM Reply   
Here is the way I see it on my boat. I bought it knowing that it will lose money, drink gas, and give a good ride.

Notice I didn't say charge per set or run a business giving pulls. What kind of friend are you to say, "sure you can come but I need 10 a set?" likewise the person bumming should offer to help, clean, bring beer or "tip" my some cash.

Shame on you people expecting X amount of money per pull. Maybe you should rethink your purchase if you cannot find the money for gas. You knew that buying a boat is an expensive endeavor why do you feel that anyone who steps on your boat should pay for your purchase. Do you also charge when people come over to play playstation? After all they are using your electricity...What is the price for that?
Old    Josh Weitekamp (da_kamp)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-18-2008, 1:18 PM Reply   
James, Thats a good statement in the last paragraph, however it'd be my guess these guys pay more in a summer month in gas/insurance for their boat than they do on an electricity bill.

IMO the gas should be divided between the riders, with people who fall a lot paying slightly more as pulling them out of the hole obviously takes more fuel than pulling somebody who rarely falls.
Old    Montgomery (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-18-2008, 1:19 PM Reply   
James that's a good point but if I am taking someone out to go ride all day I do expect them to pay for some gas not all the gas and not a certain amount per set or anything like that but I do expect some help if you wanna go out for a day of riding
Old    Montgomery (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-18-2008, 1:21 PM Reply   
"with people who fall a lot paying slightly more as pulling them out of the hole obviously takes more fuel than pulling somebody who rarely falls." I don't really agree with that but to each their own . .. Since I own the boat I always expect to pay more than anyone else
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-18-2008, 1:24 PM Reply   
Fine... add in the mortgage, insurance, utilities and price for furniture and you have them beat.

The point is, if you are invited chip in what you feel is fair and it doesn't have to be monetary. How do you put a price on someone that doesn't drive your boat into the rocks? or makes sure you don't go into the rocks.

If you invite yourself be prepared to pay.

This coming from someone that has bummed for 5+ years.

(Message edited by Rson on February 18, 2008)
Old    Montgomery (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-18-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
If I straight up invite someone out on my boat because I need them to pull me I pay for all the gas even if they ride too
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       02-18-2008, 2:18 PM Reply   
James I am supposed to pay 50-80 dollars per day 4-5 days per week so others can ride my boat?

I'd LOVE to be able to just pay 20 bucks everytime I ride and only have to show up and go, wouldn't even desire to own a boat!

Anyways, I am a third and I own a boat...I throw ten dollars a set minimum as a standard and the occasional hey here's 50 bucks for my two sets today thanks for the ride.

I don't demand anyone throw me 10 for their set, and anyone that rides with me knows if you don't have it today no big deal, get me back when you can.

BUT: If you are showing up often, and not paying the 10 a set, I'm likely not gonna be around for you long.

By my calculations you can throw a boat owner 15-20 bucks for 2 good sets and the owner is still fronting some of the gas bill for you in this day and age.

I was really hoping we could put together a list of standard do's don'ts and etiquette but looks this thread will sway from that.
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       02-18-2008, 2:28 PM Reply   
when i ride on somebody else's boat i make sure i ask what they want for gas money, and I've never had anybody be unreasonable with it. I just make sure i stay outta the way when their doin their usual stuff and help out with whatever they need like windin' rope and stuff. oh, and definitely don't trash their music. It's hard when their crakin Hanson, but just gotta restrain yourself
Old    justin schrock (texasissippi)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-18-2008, 3:01 PM Reply   
i need to dig up my old "list"! it wasnt so much a list of demands; rather a list of pet peeves that was intended to be more for comical purposes..

ex: someone new is in the water as the boat is bringing them the rope, and as the handle reaches the fallen rider, they are facing the wrong way and get pulled backwards!! "there's a number 9 the "regulars" in the boat might joke.

no harm or insulting intended, just a list of silly things that seem to happen when over the the years and its funny simply because we can remember when were were there at one time...
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-18-2008, 4:01 PM Reply   
we have a couple of boats in our crew but mine is the one we always take out. If we end up ridin all week or something in the summer and the weekend, I don't ask for money, b/c the guys always see me payin for gas and aren't pricks so if we ride everyday for a week, each one of them will actually fill it up at least once. And they always help clean afterwards, throw in or bring the beer....blah blah blah.. the point is. IF you have someone in your boat that you don't believe is helping or is "taking advantage of the situation."...ask em for some $. if they stiff you or something a couple times. when you get ready to go out the next time, don't call em. Just my two cents.
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       02-18-2008, 4:12 PM Reply   
I never ask for gas...but I have friends who are smart enough to realize it's expensive. If I'm inviting you against your will, I wouldn't expect anything, but if you're there because you want to be, help out and chip in. I hate not being allowed to pay for my sets when I'm a third.

I've had friends short me in the past. Oddly enough, they no longer get a phone call from me when we ride.
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-18-2008, 4:40 PM Reply   
I wouldn't charge by the set either. People I take out ride for as long as they want to, usually we get 2 sets in each if the boat isn't full and there's a decent tide. If the boat is full maybe one set each and a couple of riders get an extra one if they're still keen.

Help washing down afterwards is part of the deal, but there is only so much you can do. For us it's really only a one or 2 person job since we just rinse the salt off the boat and the trailer and flush the cooling system, it's an older boat so I don't really care how shiny it is. I basically turned on the hose last night and the boys got stuck in while I talked to my Dad about how the boat went.

I spend more by far on gas than I ever get back (yesterday I put in $60 and got $20 back) but I generally take longer sets...

I don't make people who are out their first time pay for gas, I'm inviting them out to give it a try, but if they offer I'd be a fool not to take them up on it

Most of my mates realise that it takes money to run a v8, so they know that I need gas money to make it happen.

Once they've been out a few times they know how it goes, getting the boat ready to put in/take out is the biggest one I think, pisses me off when people just stand around watching or sit in the boat because they don't want to get their feet wet or muddy while 3 or 4 people do all the work. When it's windy we need at least 4 people to get the boat on the trailer, unless we just get lucky and it jumps on there first time.
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-18-2008, 4:48 PM Reply   
If I'm going on someone else's boat I'll drop a $20 regardless of whether I ride one or two sets. I don't expect the same from thirds on my boat but I usually want to re-invite the people who drop 20s my way.

This is a dang expensive but dang fun sport! Don't be "fair" with the boat owners, be generous, if you're on their boat, they already are.
Old    Dan Smith (dansmith)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-18-2008, 5:30 PM Reply   
Last year I added a new person to my crew. The 1st time out he gave me $30. I accepted it, but told him $20 was fine from now on.
Like Rich said...how do you put a price on someone who isn't going to drive your boat into the rocks? Besides, he was way better than me & I got some great tips that got me to finally land the back roll.
Old    walt            02-18-2008, 7:38 PM Reply   
Not in any particular order,

Don't smoke on the boat without asking first. Don't smoke while the boat is under way. I really don't care most of the time but you should ask first.

Don't get so butt faced that your a liability.

Don't throw your board down on the sun deck or anywhere else on the boat for that matter.

Don't leave at the end of the day without offering to help clean up the boat. I may or may not have you help but you should offer.

Don't be disrespectful on the boat. (I'm not talking about razzing your buddy)

Don't talk crap to other boaters while on my boat. If I have a problem with them I'll take care of it. I don't need to finish your fight.

Don't sit on the stern or gunnels while the boat is underway.

Don't slam my ski lockers shut. This is one that really ticks me off and a lot of people do it.

Don't bitch about my music. If you don't like my stuff bring your Ipod and I'll be happy to rock your play list while you ride.

No fighting, arguing or bad attitudes either. If your not having a good day stuff it until your off the boat.

Don't bail without offering to help with the gas bill. First timers and non wake people are on me but I'm not a wakeboard sponsor. If I had money falling out of my ass I wouldn't want or need the help. I can afford to own and operate my boat but that doesn't mean I should have to pay for everyone else's hobby.

When I see a post from people that feel differently about the gas money I figure they must make a lot of money or they just don't ride that often. I also am guessing that they don't slam their boat with ballast.
To those people I respect your opinion not to want/ask for help with the gas bill and I'd love to ride with you. I take anywhere from 2 to 4 fairly long sets.

It might sound like I'm anal but I rarely ever have to say anything about the stuff I just mentioned except for the ski locker deal.

Things you should do,

#1 Have fun and enjoy the day

Pull in rope at the end of someone's set.

Put the riders board away and grab the next persons board.

Roll up the rope at the end of the day. It sounds easy enough to do but I don't do a very good job at it.

Help the driver keep a eye out for hazards.

Watch the other people in the boat when their riding and encourage them.

Stay on top of the flag.

Help with launching if needed.

If your taking photos your excused from some of these choirs. Not really but I thought I'd put that out there because I know I'm not a very good third when I'm shooting.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-18-2008, 8:28 PM Reply   
Real easy
DO - Do everything you possibly can and act like you wanna go again
Don't - Don't do anything, and act like an idiot
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-18-2008, 8:29 PM Reply   
Oh, hit me up and pay for gas
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-18-2008, 8:37 PM Reply   
WCW summed it up pretty well. One more thing I'd add is that if you are a newb don't be afraid to ask and SHOW that you are trying to be respectful. Maybe you accidentally do something dumb but make sure the boat owners knows that you want some pointers on how to be a good third.

Nothing worse than saying something to someone on your boat and having them reply "what's the big deal" or something along those lines.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-18-2008, 9:03 PM Reply   
-be on time
-no shoes in the boat
-smoke on the swim platform
-pull till your tired but make sure there is enough light for the owner
-offer some sort of money, even if it is a dollar the offer is more important
-help clean at the end of the day
-bring a good attitude
Old    Scott Dearduff (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2008, 9:31 PM Reply   
i want to be james caughlen's friend. That way when he goes to a football game or bar or what ever he will pick up the whole tab. Dude if you do a little math I am loosing some money on everyone that rides and I am not demanding a thing from them. Four of us ride and I fill the boat and get $40 for it obviously I lost the other $80 it took to fill it not to mention everything else. I was merely commenting that the cost on the old post is a little dated
Old    Scott Dearduff (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2008, 9:33 PM Reply   
Oh yeah and when you ride 4 days a week that is one hell of a tab
Old    Chris Waters (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-18-2008, 9:48 PM Reply   
Before I go out, I tell everyone we willb e splitting gas......

then we go ride the whole day, and come back to the dock.

judging how low the gas tank is, we send some people to go get gas while other clean up.

We put as much gas in the boat as it takes to fill it up, then split the cost.

simple and no one gets screwed
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-19-2008, 9:57 PM Reply   
I'm curious to see what some boat owners think of this? Because I do it sometimes and just want to know what ya'll think of it.

Bringing a full 5 gallon gas can for gas?
Old    Jay (jay_g)      Join Date: Apr 2006       02-19-2008, 10:35 PM Reply   
Thanks Guys Its a good review. And Since Im a new boat owner Ill have to enforce

I wish I still had my Vinyl Sign Machine. I would cut all the rules out and post em all over the hull for and giggles------And seriousness.

It would be funny to put Fare stickers on your boat like NY Taxis

FARES
1 Set $10
2 Set $20
Flag Holder - Free
All fees include local and state taxes

(Message edited by jay_g on February 19, 2008)

(Message edited by jay_g on February 19, 2008)
Old    walt            02-20-2008, 8:26 AM Reply   
Steve,

Some of friends bring gas and it works out great.
Old    Buzz (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       02-20-2008, 8:37 AM Reply   
Whatever you decide to do, start it right away, and be consistent. I started with several friends and my first boat many years ago, and never charged them. Mainly because they always helped with driving, launching, and cleaning. I would feel somewhat bad all of a sudden charging them now. I have some friends that I don't accept money from (for my own various reasons, mainly a couple select females), and some that always pitch in for gas/beer/cleaning. I'm OK with it
Old    Montgomery (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-20-2008, 8:56 AM Reply   
My #1 rule is smoke on the platform and Never throw your cigarette butts in the water and actually this season I'm pretty sure I'm not allowing any cigarette smoking on my boat
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-20-2008, 9:39 AM Reply   
mine is smoke on the bow..yeah its closed lol, cus my gas tank vent is back at the platform!
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-20-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
A lot of good suggestions covered. Kind of surprised by the number of smoking accomodations though.

The key is asking if your not sure about something. I would much rather pull a less experienced rider who asks a lot and is generally helpful than someone who acts like they know how things should be done. This is important because not all crews are alike. Some crews are more about the party, some are serious minded riders, and others are family oriented and you will have to feel each out. What works on one boat may not work on the next.
Old    Dante (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       02-20-2008, 11:11 AM Reply   
steve, I usually ask first if bringing actual gas is ok. If it's on my boat, I gladly accept any gasoline that is under a month old and/or stabilized.

Looks like everyone has different rules on smoking. About half the people who ride with me smoke. I occasionally smoke cigars myself. My rule is that you don't smoke near my kids or the engine and cigarette butts are extinguished in the water and placed in a designated drink can. Oh, and you had better hang the business end of your cigarette outside the boat except for when you are taking a drag. I follow those same rules with my cigars so I don't think they're unreasonable. I don't appreciate people who build up ten foot ashes before ashing and tell them so if needed. I even commit the blasphemy that is ashing a cigar when on the boat. So far, I've never lost vinyl because of smoking. If it ever happens, I'll probably tighten up my rules.

Early expectations are important. If you want to get gas money, you had better set that expectation on someone's first ride out or it's not going to happen. My personal rule of thumb on gas is that I don't invite you and expect payment. If you invite yourself I might feel differently. On the other side though, I feel it important to offer gas money (usually in the $20-$40 range) and offer to help out however I can when invited as a guest on someone else's boat. It's been my experience that people appreciate the help more than the cash.
Old    Bryan Madson (mads0113)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-20-2008, 11:49 AM Reply   
There may be many reasons why someone chooses not to pay, or pay an amount that less than what they should based on their riding time. I think the main reason is the “out of sight out of mind” effect.

Your friends show up at the launch, jump in and at the end of the day, get in their vehicles and take off. Most of the time you probably have the boat full of fuel and all your equipment ready to go. They never see you clean the boat, how much you pay for equipment, or how much you pay to fill a boat with a 46 gallon tank. I will admit when I first started riding six years ago, there were a couple of times when I got home and was mad at myself because I forgot to give the owner some money. It happens, I just plain forgot.

To combat this, I try and have the people who are going to be riding in my boat show up at least one time at my house and ride with me to the lake in my truck. When they do I stop and fill up. This way they see how much it costs to fill both a boat and tow vehicle. They also get to see how much work is involved in terms of getting everything ready and cleaning up at the end of the day. They learn pretty quick that this is an expensive sport and that they need to chip in.
Old    Chris Phelps (cpizzle)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-20-2008, 12:11 PM Reply   
WCW is pretty right on. I would add:

No eating anything with crumbs in the boat (eat over the side when were stopped)

Just smoke on the down wind portion of the boat- either bow or stern.

I never charge newbees, especially if they are learning to wakeboard for the first time but I will take some money if they offer. I usually pay/accept $20-$40 depending on how many people are pitching in, how long I'm riding or they're riding, etc.. Never charge per set. This isn't a business. I hardly ever ask for money but when someone offers, I make it a point to thank them in a manner so everyone else knows they should be paying up if you know what I mean.
Old    David (tparider)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-20-2008, 12:30 PM Reply   
It's funny to me that all this stuff is so common sense based to me and sometimes I just don't get other people.

You ride on someone's boat (which could easily be a $60-80,000 boat), enjoy your day, drink a beer, have a sandwich, take a couple of sets, and then you just leave? Where else could you have a great day of fun on a Saturday, and only spend $20-30 for the day?

It's so surprising, but at the same time, I still know people who regularly don't chip in for gas, drink other people's beer, and ride other people's boards.

Believe it or not, I actually used to ride with a guy who never chipped in for gas, and who asked to borrow my board one day. He broke it during his set, and then had the audacity to tell me, "You have the money to replace it, just buy yourself another one."

Needless to say, I don't ride with him anymore.

(Message edited by tparider on February 20, 2008)
Old    Shawn Smith (tnctryboy)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-20-2008, 1:36 PM Reply   
here is my list from riding as a third.

1) always bring money for gas!!!!! i grew up on a lake back in tennessee and know how much "lake gas" costs
2) always offer to help clean up even if you have some place to go..... when i ride it is usually a hour to an hour and a half drive but i always offer to help clean up...
3) always be on time / don't flake the boat owner should never have to wait on the third to show up once again where i usually ride is a hour and a half drive so if you do the math to hit the water @ 7:00 i will leave my house @ 5:00
4) refer back to rule # 1 and always thanks the person for the pulls!!!!!!!!
Old    Simon Irish (burberry03)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-20-2008, 2:02 PM Reply   
1)dont make fun of the owner of the boat

2)no smoking

3)POOP BEFORE YOU GET ON THE BOAT; we are not gonna let you throw down a set have to drag you in to poop and wait for the 20 min for you to pound those grumpies
Old    Simon Irish (burberry03)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-20-2008, 2:03 PM Reply   
pee in the lake too; that bugs the crap out of me when someone refuses to pee in the lake and we have to drive back to the cabin. I dont even care if you wearing a prom dress; ur peeing in the lake
Old    Keith (keith2002)      Join Date: Apr 2006       02-20-2008, 3:13 PM Reply   
^^^^
Don't ride with a "Posse" with a queer name!
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/548251.html?1203545528
Old    Kristin DeLong (escapade4k)      Join Date: May 2006       02-24-2008, 8:33 AM Reply   
Walt-
Thanks for throwing a bone to those of us who go to wakeboard and take pics. When the camera comes out, it's hard to remember to multitask and be a good third.
The bad attitude is something to note. I got a ticket the night before a time I went riding last year and came with a bad attitude. I was never invited back. Boat owners should not have to put up with your problems. Important lesson learned.
Old    Dave (rdmb)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-24-2008, 9:24 AM Reply   
I'm with Walt on not slamming the ski lockers. Nothing like cruising along and out of nowhere..."WHAM". No matter how many times it has happened, I think I just hit something.

Also, using the bimini as a grab handle.
Old    IndyBu (todd_everton)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-24-2008, 11:13 AM Reply   
When I'm a third on someone's boat,I usually ask the owner what the "rules"are before we even get on the boat.Some people don't feel comfortable laying down the law when people do something wrong on their boat,they sit & stew about it.Usually if you ask before hand,those people will be more willing to open up & tell you.
As far as my boat goes,when I invite someone & they ask what to bring,I tell them.Then I tell them what my rules are & what NOT to bring.I usually don't ask for gas $$,but will gladly accept it when offered,unless it is a regular mooch.They know ahead of time to bring $$ for gas.

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