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Old    tj (tj_in_kc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-19-2008, 9:11 AM Reply   
So, somone posted the JD power associates survey results for 2008. This sparked my attention, and i went and took a look at the wakeboard category.

Noticed the Engine rating category. Don't CC, MC, and Moomba all use the same engine drive-train??

If then, how are the ratings so varied??
Old    corey king (snowboardcorey)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-19-2008, 9:20 AM Reply   
I've wondered about that myself, my guess is that in the grand scheme of things very few surveys are completed for each manufacturer meaning a couple of bad reviews could scew the results dramatically, kind of like outliers in any statistical survey.

Engine problems may lie with the servicing dealer as well, proper prep, 10-20 inspection, parts availability and other factors could contribute to the discrepencies.

CC uses PCM and Tige' uses Marine Power, so there are 3 different engine marinizers in the picture. So that can explain some of the difference. MC,Supra,Moomba and BU all use engines from Indmar.
Old    corey king (snowboardcorey)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-19-2008, 9:26 AM Reply   
Another variable is which engines were put into the boats surveyed. The bulk of the engines are some sort of Chevy 350 block, but intakes, cams, filers and the like can vary performance and reliability. In addition, MC offers a 6.0L option and BU runs a 6.2 which is a bored 5.7L. Some companies offer an 8.1L as well.

It would be nice if JD Power gave a little more clarification on the surveys, overall they are fairly vague.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an MC guy and I love that they won, but I'd like to know a little more about the survey procedure and how the results are produced.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-19-2008, 9:31 AM Reply   
they are awards purchased with advertising dollars
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-19-2008, 9:33 AM Reply   
$$$ if you pay more it must be better right?

TJ actually Malibu, Mastercraft, Moomba, Supra use Indmar and CC uses PCM but that does not change my statment above.
Old    tj (tj_in_kc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-19-2008, 9:45 AM Reply   

So you are telling me the Mastercraft with the Indmar 320, the Malibu with the Indmar 320, and the Moomba with the Indmar 320 (they call it 325 i think, but i would bet its probably nearly the exact same engine)

All these boats with the same Engine produced results from 5 stars to 3 stars to 2 stars?

What a joke.
Old    Steve (desertbum)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-19-2008, 9:47 AM Reply   
Old    Larzon (xsmini)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-19-2008, 12:37 PM Reply   
JD Power is a farce, plain and simple
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-19-2008, 1:45 PM Reply   
How can it possibly be a tie if MC score lower than CC in Quality and Reliability? That doesn't make any sense...
Old    Bret (wakeride26)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-19-2008, 2:00 PM Reply   
I wrote J.D. Power and asked them the exact same thing


Thank you for your e-mail. We are aware of the similarities of the engines among the Ski/Wakeboard brands in the segments. The brands receive different ratings on the engine, not by us, J.D. Power, but by actual owners of these boats. It is the actual customers that rate their satisfaction of the boat and engine and apparently MasterCraft owners are more satisfied with their Indmar engine than owners of other boat brands.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Best Regards,

Stephanie Haina

Corporate Communications


From: Bret OBrien []
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:45 PM
To: Information
Subject: Market Research - Immediate Response Requested

Corporate Web Inquiry

Name: Mr. Bret OBrien
Company: yahct club sales and service


Industry: Marine
Inquiry Type: Market Research

Subject: Indmar Engines
Comments: I would like to know why in your 2008 awards Mastercraft, who has the same engines as Malibu , Supra and Moomba received a higher rating. They are made by the same compnay have almost exactly the same power and go in the same sized boats. sounds like smoke and mirrors if you ask me. I want to know how you came to the conclusion that one is better than the other, when they are the same.?


J.D. Power and Associates


The information contained in this message is intended only for the recipient, and may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, please be aware that any dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. reserves the right, subject to applicable local law, to monitor and review the content of any electronic message or information sent to or from McGraw-Hill employee e-mail addresses without informing the sender or recipient of the message.

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Previous | Next | Back to Messages Save Message Text | Full Headers ing. Here is what they wrote back to me today.
Old    water freak (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-19-2008, 2:01 PM Reply on additional it may make sense.

(Message edited by waterfreak on February 19, 2008)
Old    Bret (wakeride26)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-19-2008, 2:02 PM Reply   
I guess some Shinny Red paint and another 1,500 for an engine upgrade make them better.
Old    water freak (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-19-2008, 2:12 PM Reply   
This is info from the 2006 JD Powers award. The award is chosen by owners surveyed.

Correct Craft ranks highest in the ski/wakeboard segment for a fourth consecutive time, receiving the highest ratings in five of seven feature categories. Correct Craft is followed in the segment rankings by MasterCraft, which records considerable improvements in overall satisfaction from 2005.

The 2006 Boat Competitive Information Study is based on responses from 12,255 owners who registered a new ski/wakeboard boat between June 2004 and May 2005.

(Message edited by waterfreak on February 19, 2008)
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-19-2008, 3:02 PM Reply   
Yeah, it does make more sense now that I've seen the additional areas. Looks like all the other brands got slammed though.

(Message edited by Jtnz on February 19, 2008)
Old    Larzon (xsmini)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-19-2008, 3:12 PM Reply   
The fact is the other brands did not sign up to be surveyed this year. They needed to make the segment look fuller so they took the top inboard manufacturers and surveyed them. The ones who didn't sign up had way less surveys sent out
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-19-2008, 3:19 PM Reply   
I normally won't post something like this because I know all the E-haters are gonna jump all over me now, but....

I've owned a Mastercraft, currently own a Correct Craft and I'm about to trade my CC in for a Malibu...

I've driven and boarded behind all the other brands as well....

I think the attention to detail and overall quality on the Mastercrafts and Correct Crafts is a notch above the rest , but I believe better value can be had with Malibu/Supra/Sanger. The price tags on wake boats are completely out of control now. I make a good living, and even though I'd love to get me a new Super Air 230...the price tag is 90K+ for a fully loaded rig....cmon!!!!

That said...I'm super excited to get into my new Malibu!! I'm gonna miss my 210 cause it's one sweeeet machine!!!

...and I've seen mackin' wakes behind all the brands....

(Message edited by fletch_tx on February 19, 2008)

(Message edited by fletch_tx on February 19, 2008)
Old    WPS (wpstevenson)      Join Date: May 2002       02-20-2008, 11:36 AM Reply   
Some info on the engines.

CC uses PCM engines.

Malibu, Mastercraft, Skiers choice/supra/momba uses INDMAR

INDMAR uses GM blocks on each brand and share some parts, but most have different fuel supply systems, electronics, exhaust and different heads depending on the brand. Each manufacture has items on the engines developed specificly for their boat. The fuel injection system/air intake for MC MCX engine is only used on that engine from indmar, it was developed by indmar for Holly as an aftermarket fuel injection system. Mastercraft has exclusive rights to it from Indmar. Malibu has exclusive rights to several items also.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but even though the 3 brands use indmar and have chevy bocks, the engine packages are different. Plus when you add how good each manufacture is at intergrating the package in the boat, could make a big differnece in how people feel about the prodect. Here are the engine options from the 3 that use INDMAR.

320hp LCR 350-CID 5.7L
340hp Monsoon 350-CID 5.7L
400hp hamerhead 383-CID 6.2L
450hp 8100L 496-CID 8.1L

310hp RTP1 350-CID 5.7L
350hp MCX 350-CID 5.7L
400hp LY6 364-CID 6.0L
450hp L18 496-CID 8.1L

Skiers choice/Supra/Moomba
325hp Assault 350-CID 5.7L
340hp Assault 350-CID 5.7L
409hp Assault 364-CID 6.0L
450hp Assault 496-CID 8.1L

Out of all the engines, the one that looks the same for each boat company is the 496cid.


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