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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through February 24, 2008

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Old    Bret Smith (smithwake101)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-15-2008, 8:45 PM Reply   
Other than the fact that rail jams bring allot of people to see riders hitting rails, dose anyone fell like it could be detouring from wakeboarding as a whole? Meaning by down sizing and showing a small and limited portion the sport and while venues continue to be parking lots and boat shows? example the X-Games "WAKE is only represented on the largest action sports stage by a rail jam” and im not hating on rail jams im just concerned, considering what happened to bmx by doing a very similar demonstration of there sport.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-15-2008, 8:48 PM Reply   
i don't think it hurts the sport at all. if anything, it brings the sport to those that wouldn't normally see it.
Old    walt            02-15-2008, 9:20 PM Reply   

quote:

it brings the sport to those that wouldn't normally see it.




I agree 100%.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-15-2008, 9:25 PM Reply   
I think it helps for exposure but as I do believe the people who would have never been around it if it wasn't for a rail jam get a bad view of wakeboarding... don't get me wrong, railjams are cool, but the riding you see at them is rather unimpressive to that of behind a boat or a cable park where a rider can really impress... It helps to get the word out of the sport but makes it look far less impressive than it really is
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-15-2008, 9:30 PM Reply   
In most cases where you're seeing a rail jam, there is no "regular" wakeboarding alternative. So given the choice between a rail jam and nothing, I see rail jams as promoting the sport, not hurting it.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-16-2008, 4:35 AM Reply   
I think it is better exposure for riders. Getting to see the riders up close & talking to them is something you are not going to do at the lake. But I also think it's more of a cousin to cable park riding than lake riding.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-16-2008, 6:04 AM Reply   
Heck no and they are super fun to compete it!
Old    TeamValdez (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-16-2008, 6:25 AM Reply   
I think they are a great way to expose the sport and add entertainment to boat shows as well. What the catch 22 is, at some of the shows they want to see flips and big air, they don't understand the technical aspects of say a wall ride. But if they see somebody do a dorky flip using the rail as a kicker, they go nuts!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-16-2008, 6:51 AM Reply   
dorky flip, huh?
Old    TeamValdez (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-16-2008, 7:17 AM Reply   
joe, what are you doing up this early?? You know what I mean!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-16-2008, 7:19 AM Reply   
haha! gettin' ready to go to the boat show. it's a long drive from sd and i wanna beat the la traffic. are you and the kids gonna be there?
Old    TeamValdez (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-16-2008, 7:21 AM Reply   
Yea, gotta get my daughter a kitten and then we are on our way to beautiful downtown LA!! see you there!
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       02-16-2008, 7:35 AM Reply   
Every rail jam I have been to, the inverts get the biggest applause from the fans and thats what rail jams are all about, bringing new riders into the sport.
I get bored watching the same thing over and over and over, you got to mix it up!!
Old    Ken Land (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-16-2008, 8:06 AM Reply   
Rail jams are becoming the the most common competition and demonstration format... It all comes down to advertising dollars... Big companies outside of the wakeboarding industry want eye balls for their advertising dollar, and frankly there are always 10x to 20x the number of people at a rail jam... Last May the Texas INT did a rail jam in the middle of 6th street (bar district) in downtown Austin on a Saturday night: how many people were there? 20,000, 30,000.. Nissan of North America was the major sponsor of the event. Big companies are going to jump on these events, and in return the purses will be bigger than boat competitions... If a pro rider has a choice of going to a rail jam or boat competition; the rider will choose to go with the bigger purse (of course it requires the rider to know he or she is good in rail jam comps).. Every pro rider knows that the money is eventually going to be in rail jams and not boat competitions.

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
www.wakeboarding-winch.com
Old    Steve McKim (mbsteez)      Join Date: May 2005       02-16-2008, 9:59 AM Reply   
what we don't need is what happened in snowboarding: jib kids who don't hit jumps at all. can you imagine wake kids who hit only sliders, never a wake? or kids who only winch and can't even do a deep water start?
Old    Bret Smith (smithwake101)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-16-2008, 10:01 AM Reply   
ken that my point exactly the idea of the sport being defind as a rail jam is not good for the sport as a whole. because its just a demonstration of a smaller portion of the sport and its taking away from boat competition and the true root of wakeboarding.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-16-2008, 10:30 AM Reply   
yea but that is what is going to give the sport diversity and encourage growth especially right now with the economy going down the tube. not nearly as many people can afford boats right now but they can easily whinch and ride rail jams. that will keep the interest there.

there are already people that ride rails and whinchs that dont ever ride the wake.
Old    Niyazi (cyprus)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-16-2008, 10:54 AM Reply   
Just like in snowboarding there will be some who are interested in one aspect or the other or both -- there are halfpipe riders, quarterpipe riders, rail riders, mountain riders or the ones that can do it all. It will bring diversity into not necessarily hurt the sport. But I have to agree with the idea that compared to a behind a boat-wakeboard-show, a cable event in a few feet of water does not seem impressive to me. Just my humble thought though.
Old    Ken Land (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-16-2008, 4:31 PM Reply   
Bret,

I do see your point, but there is the other side of the equation that says the sport will be introduced to more people and there will be more diverse riders.

Steve,

We already have Jib kids... The front cover of the 07 August Wakeboard Mag featured Tom Fooshee: he is the national and I believe world cable champion right now; the cable is all about rails and boxes. However, I personally believe Tom will be the next all around wakeboard champion within a few years: he is already considered the best wakeboard rail rider there is behind the boat, cable, or winch; he has been working on consistency behind the boat the last year, and I hear that he has started or will soon be starting to work on 1080's (Tom already has all his 900's behind the boat)(if I was competing pro, I would definantly be worried about Tom Fooshee). My point is that Tom made is name riding rails and fun boxes, and is very soon going to be dominating the pro tour behind a boat.

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
www.wakeboarding-winch.com
Old    Mike McB (ehwake)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-16-2008, 5:46 PM Reply   
I'm curious, what is the learning curve to becoming a decent rail rider compared to becoming a decent wake rider for a gifted athlete.
Old    Bret Smith (smithwake101)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-17-2008, 9:04 AM Reply   
you all are making great points and again just want to say im not bagging on rail jams i just wanted to hear the opinons of riders like my self
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-17-2008, 9:26 AM Reply   
Ken Nail it! Look at guys like Lidberg he made his start as a Cable rider and now has a pro model! That says a lot!
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-17-2008, 9:57 AM Reply   
learning to hit rails and jib and such is way easier than learning to ride the wake.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-17-2008, 10:18 AM Reply   
I think the thing that makes hitting the wake hard (or harder) is the fact that it is a fluid surface. Most board sports you "simply" line yourself up with the jump and then do what you have to do in the air, but wake just isn't that simple. This is where you get the beginners who think they are "all that" and try to just hit the wake with all the speed they can muster then get no more than 2 ft of air. Cracks me up every time. (i don't mean to say other board sports are simple, so don't confuse me there)

As for the whole rail vs wake thing. i think there is good points from both sides of the argument. If the Truth, Push Process, or some other popular wake vid was shown at the events it might help with dampening the "negative effects" of rail jams and introducing the wake side of things. Anyone agree or have other ideas???
Old    Brett Hileman (bhileman)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-17-2008, 10:48 AM Reply   
I think it is a positive aspect to the sport. I think it just introduces another aspect to our sport which in turn is going to attract more people to trying it out. If snowboarding was just slopestyle it would not have much of a following, but since there are halfpipe comps and rail jams it has made snowboarding a huge sport. I think rail jams are doing the same for wakeboarding. It is introducing it to different crowds that wouldn't usually see the boat aspect of wakeboarding.

If a person completely new to wakeboarding sees a rail jam before anything else I don't think it will be any different than the person seeing a pro tourstop. I think if a person sees wakeboarding and becomes interested they are eventually going to experience the wake aspect of the sport despite the fact they saw the rail aspect first.

Personally it wouldn't bother me it we starting getting kids that were just jib kids. If you can throw 270 on 270 off on a slider I wouldn't really care if you couldn't do anything behind the boat. I think this extra aspect of the sport is going to push wakeboarding up to the level of other major board sports, which im not sure is good but that is a whole other topic.
Old    Steve McKim (mbsteez)      Join Date: May 2005       02-17-2008, 1:28 PM Reply   
ken

i think its great when people make their name in a sport doing one thing but then develop their riding to be very well rounded and, in tom's case, super good. i think people who get good at one thing and then don't try anything else don't represent the sport. i don't think wakeboarding has any athletes like this who get lots of exposure, like snowboarding does, and i really hope it stays that way.

brett, i think there's way more people who can throw 270 on 270 off a slider than could spin a 7 off the wake or a kicker, maybe even than could spin a 5.
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-18-2008, 9:30 AM Reply   
I don't think they have the impact for good that a lot of industry people would hope they would.

I attended my first one at the Phoenix Boat Show and was left pretty underwhelmed. Props to everyone who hit the rail, Aaron Reed's hilarious commentary, and all the work that I'm sure went into constructing it but it was pretty boring. The rail hits lasted such a short time and if you're not into hitting rails very few of the hits looked that cool in person. I think Tino Santori did one or two amazing hits but otherwise it was pretty lame. (The still frames look much better.) Plus, you had to wait about 2 minutes between each rider.

I just can't see many kids or parents who aren't already into wakeboarding being so impressed by the rail jam that they'd then want to buy a boat. Wakeboarding for the common person looks nothing like a rail jam. I doubt it hurts the sport but I think they're really just for people that already are into the industry (which I am but I still left with no desire to see another.)

Oh ya, and if the tatted out dude with spiky hair who wrestled a copy of Push Process from a little kid (more like ripped it from his hands)is on these boards: You are a Class A piece of trash!

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