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Old     (norcal_wakejunky)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-08-2008, 3:39 PM Reply   
I just recently got a 46" LCD TV and my DVD player has an HDMI hookup and can up convert to 720p. My question is, I went through all the menu steps to enhance the quality of my DVDs both audio and visual and on most newer DVDs I can see some change but when I watch wakeboard vids specifically Bent Felix and the Truth I'm not sure if I screwed something up but the picture quality is not the best. Is that because they shoot with a 16mm camera? or is it because most to all wake vids are full screen not widescreen? I saw in another post and read this in a magazines that there are now hi-def video cameras and already the big name wakeboarding video producers are starting to use them. Any thoughts from technical savy people,?
Old     (norcal_wakejunky)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-08-2008, 3:42 PM Reply   
Oh and if it matters the contrast ratio for the tv is 10,000:1, not familiar with the refresh rate.
Old     (cali_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-08-2008, 5:02 PM Reply   
Basically your dvd player is just blowing it up, so you are losing quality. Some of the newer wake vids with in the last year are shot HD but still down converted to basically a DV format so it will fit your noraml 33:1 TV
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-08-2008, 5:27 PM Reply   
Prior to break, I ran The Truth through my 360 into my HD LCD TV, and it looked really pretty. I don't know if that's just how it always looked or if that was because the HD output on the 360 was sharpening it up some without it being an HD DVD. If you have a 360 try that, otherwise I don't really have any kind of suggestion at all.
Old     (cali_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-08-2008, 5:53 PM Reply   
Im pretty sure as long as whatever dvd player it is, that its not up scaling it, then you should be fine. I play regular DVDs in the 360 HD player and they look good, but i dont know why it wouldnt...
Old     (anodyne)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-08-2008, 6:05 PM Reply   
You Steve,

16mm is actually higher definition than "HD" filming, so this should not be the problem... the problem may have been in the capture or production of the film - often times there can be a night and day difference in terms of clarity and apparent resolution because at some point in the post process someone wasn't careful with it.

Sadly, you're right about many people switching to Digital HD: it's cheaper, faster, and easier. It's good for budding DPs, but it kills some of the art to making a great wake film.

Wakeboard film budgets are obviously volumes less than major run films, so it could just be the budget differences showing through in areas where they had to scrimp.

DVD players are, by nature, low-resolution (and the format was originally designed with interlaced TVs in mind), so it may just be this weakness exploited by the clarity and size of your TV.
Old     (cali_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-08-2008, 6:18 PM Reply   
I'm pretty sure 16mm or even super 16 is not higher then HD but lets not turn this forum into that talk. haha
Old     (gherk)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-08-2008, 11:41 PM Reply   
The problem is mostly related to your TV. Your DVD source has the same resolution, regardless of what TV you play it on. When you stick it on a big TV, the pixels of your 720X480 resolution DVD are blown up and you can really start to see them. It makes the video look like crap but its just the fact that your eye is now able to pick it up. The bigger the TV, the worse it can look. Those up converting DVD players seem to help but only so much. Some TVs have smoothing features which also helps. High Definition is starting to fill the void when it comes to quality on a big TV.

Off the subject, it looks like HD-DVD is close to death. Stick with Blue-Ray if you are thinking of getting an HD player.
Old     (jpboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-09-2008, 9:12 AM Reply   
Nick did you play it through the high def 360 dvd player, or the just the 360?
Old     (norcal_wakejunky)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-09-2008, 9:56 AM Reply   

Thank you everybody for the great responses.

I just started watching high definition TV for the first time on my tv last night and it was pretty impressive. Wish I got Fuel TV in high def.
Old     (mcfatty)      Join Date: Apr 2003       01-09-2008, 10:25 AM Reply   
I think when a DVD player says it upscaling it just means it's compatible with your 720p or 768p or whatever. The player can only play what it has to work with and they try to make it sound like the DVD can add extra resolution which it can't.
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-09-2008, 10:30 AM Reply   
Just the 360, which is why I found it a little odd that people were commenting on how nice it looked. Personally, I was too busy wishing that I could do some of those tricks to notice if it was genuinely prettier than usual. But yesterday I watched it on my TV at home, which isn't HD, through the 360 and it didn't look quite as sharp, so I don't know... Maybe it just had to do with the TVs themselves...
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-09-2008, 11:48 AM Reply   

Paul, why do you say HD is close to death? I'm personally rooting for blu-ray, but I heard they are pretty much neck and neck.
Old     (cali_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-09-2008, 12:39 PM Reply   
Paul -Warner just made a statement that there only going Blu-ray, But Walmart just bought like ??? million in HD-DVDs. The war has moved to studios vs retailers now..... its just silly. The fact is that blu-ray is a better qty but i think HD DVD will win do to consumer demand.

Steve- Im almost positive that Fuel has a HD channel now.
Old     (cali_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-09-2008, 12:40 PM Reply   
oops i ment to address that to Benjamin.
Old     (norcal_wakejunky)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-09-2008, 12:52 PM Reply   

I'm just too cheap to pay the the next higher package that has Fuel TV in HD.
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-09-2008, 1:28 PM Reply   
15 Dollars - Regular DVD

30 Dollars - Fancy high definition DVD with same special features...

I think I like to spend only 15 so, bah to HD DVDs and Blu Ray that I'll watch like, once, and never again...

If I need to see stuff in HD, I can just download it off of Xbox live marketplace...

Which speaking of, it would be tight if they would put wakeboarding movies on xbox live marketplace...
Old     (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-09-2008, 2:25 PM Reply   
I think the loss of picture quality may be due to the original format of the wake DVD's you are watching along with the settings for the output of your DVD player. I can't say for sure, but I think The Truth is 4:3 aspect ratio. If your DVD player is set to widescreen output it is stretching out the picture of a 4:3 DVD to fit your 16:9 TV.

For example, the XBOX 360 does this automatically. It does not upconvert the signal, the 360 only plays it in 480P (unless of course you have added the optional HD-DVD player for XBOX 360). It does, however, stretch out 4:3 DVD's to fit a 16:9 screen. Personally, I think the result of this is a crappy picture.

As far as upconverting DVD players, I personally think the picture quality is not any better than 480P. If it were then there would be no need for Blu Ray or HD-DVD. On a side note, when Block Buster chose to carry only Blu-Ray, that pretty much decided the battle right there. Now that Time Warner has dropped HD-DVD, the format should die a pretty quick death.

Back to the topic at hand....

Again, I think the issue is the format of the DVD you are playing vs. the settings on your DVD player. If the format of the wake DVDs you mention is actually widescreen (16:9), then screw me...I have no idea what the problem is

(Message edited by nauty on January 09, 2008)
Old     (norcal_wakejunky)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-09-2008, 3:38 PM Reply   
To me Richard that seems to make sense, I have been messing around with various settings of both the tv and the DVD player. When I had HD TV setup the Dish guys set my tv to 16:9 aspect ratio. I know that is also an option for my DVD player and I think I also set it to be (16:9). I would love to have an electronics expert spend like an hour looking at what I have setup and show me how to optimize all my stuff without having to pay some top dollar electronic guru.
Old     (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-09-2008, 6:12 PM Reply   
Last week I spent an entire day frustrated at how bad my HD picture looked while watching football. The next day I finally discovered that the # button on my Dish remote was the screen format button. Apparently one of my kids in advertantly pushed it and I was watching the "stretch" version all day. Putting it back to the "normal" setting made such a huge difference. Granted, my issue was with Dish and not a DVD, but it's the same scenario.
Old     (harris)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-11-2008, 7:06 PM Reply   
dudes watch Transgression on ur lcd. a work of art.
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       01-12-2008, 9:09 AM Reply   

I'm not sure 16mm film has more resolution then HD, there is a lot of factors influencing what you're seeing like the film stock, grain and lenses used. The biggest problem the major film makers are having switching to digital is getting rid of the sharpness inherent in digital captures. Plus people are used to the 24 fps framerate and gamma inherent to film, it's been embedded in our consciousness from watching TV and the movies since birth.

I believe what's being discussed above may be due more to the hardware involved in mastering the source (whether SD, HD or film) to SD DVD. The studios use very expensive telecines and mpeg compressors to master film or video to DVD vs your basic SW based conversions done on your Mac or PC. Anyone who has made a serious effort to wring the absolute best quality out of these home PC encoders (ie Dave C. with the chick flick or Branecki with DS2) will tell you how hard it is to find the sweet spot compression wise using you basic home PC. These giant LCD/plasma screens and cheap up converting DVD players just magnify all the deficiencies inherent to this process.


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