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Old    john prine (john_prine)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-13-2007, 7:01 PM Reply   
which engine is better ?
Which engine has less problems ?
Which engine has people had better performance with ?
Which truck overall is better ?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-13-2007, 7:11 PM Reply   
Which motor's? The nem low emmissions models? Frame and transmission hands down the Ford but the Cummins is a pretty damn tough motor to beat. It's a relatively simple design that's pretty much bullet proof. The new 6.4 in the Ford is an awesome motor that out performs the Cummins but it's still new.
Old    Devon Asmussen (mnwake476)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-13-2007, 7:27 PM Reply   
the new 6.7 cummins has been having trouble with the DPF filling up but once they get that stuff figured out it should be a good truck. Dodge has never had that good of a transmission and the ford is one the best diesel trannys ever. Both engines are similar performance wise. The ford is a nicer truck overall though.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-13-2007, 7:31 PM Reply   
It doesn't out perform the new 6.7 cummins.
Old    Marco (macrogpx2)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-13-2007, 7:36 PM Reply   
Devon you are mistaken, the Allison is the best diesel transmission.
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-13-2007, 7:46 PM Reply   
The transmission is the only thing that scares me about the Ford. Every one I know that has one has had problems soon after 100,000 miles.
Old    john prine (john_prine)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-13-2007, 7:56 PM Reply   
The cummins is a stong and proven engine.......i have an 2007 ram 2500 5.9 diesel
Old    stillstandin            11-13-2007, 8:00 PM Reply   
The 6.7 cummins has outperformed the Ford 6.4 in every test I have read. From a Duramax owner..i like the ford body's, but I would go with the Dodge in this case. Just my .2
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       11-13-2007, 8:15 PM Reply   
here is my last thread, truck is on point now though, running perfect. but this thread will give you some feedback

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/516559.html?1194479096
Old    liquid ryder (pilot_ryder)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-13-2007, 8:32 PM Reply   
give me a ford truck with a 5.9 cummins and a allison transmission and im happy.

all in all i believe the 6.4 is going to do really well, and after the 6.7 is worked out they should have a very good vehicle with there new trans, as for d-max they have always been middle of the pack i believe, nothing to eye popping but nothing to crappy.
Old    nEwJ_HoSeR (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-13-2007, 8:39 PM Reply   
Cummins 5.9 IMO is the true meaning of diesel. If V8 diesels were so great, you'd see them in fire engines. THough I am bias because I currently own an 05 2500 CTD, the Fords lose their power faster than Dodges over time. As for ANY trany that faces 600 ft. lbs of touque, anyone who floors it in first gear is going to lessen the life of any diesel trany. Let your diesel get to 2nd before laying into it. Plus who doesn't have a Ford?
Old    stillstandin            11-13-2007, 8:39 PM Reply   
"as for d-max they have always been middle of the pack i believe, nothing to eye popping but nothing to crappy."


http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1.html

Middle of the pack.. Actually front of the pack...nearly every time.
Old    john prine (john_prine)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-13-2007, 8:46 PM Reply   
What is better....the 07 dodge auto tranny or the manual stick......
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-13-2007, 9:09 PM Reply   
5.9 is a proven monster. The new Cummins will be there, but I'd rather have a left over 07 with the 5.9. Dodge, IMO, has alot to learn in the fit and finish department when compaired to the Ford and GM offerings. Plus, documented trans problems across the board. Hopefully they get the clue some time, because in the Cummins, they have the best that 3/4 and 1 ton have to offer.

The Allison Trany is freaken awesome. I have it in my motorhome behind the 8.1 gas, it is sweet.

If I could pick and choose, 5.9 Cummins, with the Allison, in a Ford body.
Old    nEwJ_HoSeR (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-13-2007, 9:20 PM Reply   
Craig, might want to take a closer look at some of those tests. In the 3/4 tons (which most of us drive, im assuming)theres a lot of blue on top. Never the less that is a really in depth and informative side by side comparison. Thanks for posting it...seriously
Old    Jason (azpowerhouse)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-13-2007, 10:57 PM Reply   
Interesting site, but there are too many variables(that arent the same) especially in the gas vs diesel comparisons. There are different axles, and so many other configurations that can change the numbers....
Old    mendo247            11-14-2007, 6:43 AM Reply   
Your all nuts!

The Tundra blows all these trucks away!

They tow way better and will stop a loaded fright train!

Old    pwork (siuski)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-14-2007, 7:08 AM Reply   
Test drove a 6.4 and a 6.6 LMM back to back. The 6.4 is a turd compared to the 6.6. Even my Ford buddy agreed. I did like the fords size and it handled better than I would have expected for a SFA, but like the chevy interior. Want to drive a 6.7, but can't get over the interior vs. the other two. Heard good things about their new 6 speed.

Tundra...maybe after they fix the cam shaft, transmission, block, highway wiggle and tailgate issue!

(Message edited by siuski on November 14, 2007)
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-14-2007, 7:11 AM Reply   
I picked up an 07 5.9 Cummins a few months ago and am pleased with it. Plenty of power for anything I would need to tow. 16 city 23 hwy right outta the box too. With a mileage chip it will be even better. For me, I realize the fit and finish might not be top notch but it's the only reasonably priced diesel out there. I like the basic interior though. I dont feel so bad about climbing out of the water and jumping into the truck.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-14-2007, 7:30 AM Reply   
Coop brought jokes LOL!
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-14-2007, 7:57 AM Reply   
I like the Ford body, Cummins motor, Allison tranny idea. I went with what is to me the most important part of a truck when I bought mine.

MOTOR...
Old    john setser (wakecrazy21v)      Join Date: Jan 2005       11-14-2007, 9:13 AM Reply   
Brian I have the same truck with the long bed and 33s. I get at best 13.5 city 11.5 towing (5700) Trying to never go over 2000rpms. I'm doing the mls by hand.
Old    kvoman (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-14-2007, 9:30 AM Reply   
Popular Mechanics latest magazine just had a recent test of the big 3 (HD diesel model) and the Chevy came out on top.
Old    Phaeton (phaeton)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-14-2007, 9:36 AM Reply   
Dodge crew cab owner here. No issues with the interior or body. Tons of power and I can park it in a parking space in one shot. Try that with a Ford.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-14-2007, 9:50 AM Reply   
John,
Mine's also a LB with 33's. I hand calc as well and see that my overhead is off by about 1.5mpg. Did you get reflashed for your tire change? My dealer did it for free. Even if you're hand calculating it your mileage will be off on the low side thus giving you a worse MPG figure. I haven't towed much with it yet to come up figure there.

B
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       11-14-2007, 10:22 AM Reply   
dodge cummins last longer. hands down!

the isb 6 has been around in dodge since the 80s.

how many powerstroke engines have comeand cone? how many chevys?
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-14-2007, 10:31 AM Reply   
how long has the 7.3 been around?
Old    Shane (shane97210)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-14-2007, 10:35 AM Reply   
papa john, add about 7% to your figure for mileage with the 33s. approx 14.5 isn't too bad for a new diesel motor.
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       11-14-2007, 10:46 AM Reply   
give me a tundra with a cummins engine and ill take it any day.

american trucks are made crappy, all of them.

at least in comparison to toyotas.

I hear toyota is coming out with diesels in 09 10.

cant wait!

dodge manuals rock the newere ones are merecdes trans with much better gear rations and easier to row through then the 02 and older trans.

the nv4500s had issues with 5th gear,

the nv5600s have issues with input shafts breaking and are currently hard to get parts for. chrysler scrapped all the parts for the nv5600s for budget or finance reaonss making them one expensive trans to replace.

4500s are plentiful. time will tell if New venture will start building replacements parts for the dodge nv5600 trannies if i had to guess i would say dont hold your breath on that one.
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       11-14-2007, 10:53 AM Reply   
the 7.3 had been around till 2002. then it was changed to the 6.0 which has had numerious probelms with injectors turbos and glow plugs.

im not familiar with the current issues of the fords but it if you look at the dodges over the years they have made basic refinements to them and still maintain the trends power reliablity and economy.

You hear very little on the complaint sides of the CUMMINS isb engine.

im still waiting for the ford body cummins motor alison trans and gmc interior to be built! haha.
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-14-2007, 12:37 PM Reply   
andy when was the 7.3 introduced?
Granted many 6.0l have had some problems the two we've had have had zero... knock on wood
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-14-2007, 12:52 PM Reply   
Alot of the early problems with the 6.0l motors were due to improper diagnostics from poorly trained techs. Not letting Ford off the hook or anything, but many techs would simply throw parts at it until they figured something out. That, coupled with the obvious early flaws in the engine, made it somewhat of a disaster. Then add the fact that everyone tried chipping their engines and lying about it when they brought them in after blowing em up and you have a serious serious issue.

The only reasons they keep changing motors is to keep up the the emissions mandates put on them. The 6.0l would most likely still be in production and you will hear from most folks driving the 06 & 07 that they are top notch with no issues. I like mine alot, and will keep it forever if I can. Sooner or later the aftermarket turbos will show up and I will most likely pick one up if my turbo ever goes. Other than that, i doubt much will go wrong with it.

I like all the diesel trucks, Ford got the nod because of the incentives and the dealership in my area. I really hate these comparison threads, they bring the haters out in droves, folks who heard something about something and therefore it is fact. Model year, engine model, etc all play into it as much as personal tastes and wallet size.
Old    john setser (wakecrazy21v)      Join Date: Jan 2005       11-14-2007, 1:22 PM Reply   
B and Hi Shane; yea I add 5%, so 400=420mls. I've got 9700mls on the truck now,looking for it to do better soon. Thank Brian and Shane see ya fir night Shane 7% would be better
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-14-2007, 2:06 PM Reply   
One more thing John.

From what I'm reading lots of people are having considerable MPG gains using the Quadzilla Max Mileage Module, XZT, or XZillerator II modules. They're pretty cheap considering the HP gains as well. If you haven't already check out dieseltruckresource.com. Tons of good info on there.

See ya
Old    Scott Legge (w00taz)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-14-2007, 2:19 PM Reply   
I don't know much about diesels but the rock crawler guys DROOOOL for the NV4500 and NV5600 and beat their gear to death. I think (dated back to 1995-ish) this was pretty much the de facto standard 5 and 6 speed manuals for dodge and chevy. As for the earlier discussed issues... They were all fixed in the first 2 years. Both problems have aftermarket parts which are stronger than originals and much cheaper.

(Message edited by w00taz on November 14, 2007)
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-14-2007, 5:21 PM Reply   
I had (about 10 yrs ago) a '95 Dodge 4x4 dually with 4.10's and the NV4500 5-speed. It grenaded TWICE in under 100k. The problem was common with them. The tranny was based on the earlier 4-speed, with an extension housing and a 5th gear bolted on the back. A large nut would back itself off the end of the shaft over time, resulting in 5th gear being gone, and the nut rolling around in the case, tearing up other stuff. The real fix was tack welding the nut on the shaft, which the first place that fixed mine apparently did not know. I have heard they are pretty bulletproof if that fix is made, though.

I'm sure the rockcrawler guys drool over them because of the ridiculously low granny gear. I could put my truck in 4-low in first gear, and you could literally walk faster than it would move with the engine redlining. IIRC the tow rating was around 18,000 lbs. It sucked for normal driving, though, because it only went about 82 mph at redline at the other end of the gearing.
Old    liquid ryder (pilot_ryder)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-14-2007, 6:20 PM Reply   
actually from what ive heard the tundra diesel will only be avalable on a dually model. as for when the 7.3 was introudced i believe it was in 1994 when the powerstroke badge came on the fords. that engine would be my second choice from the 5.9 but the fact is that these engines are changing rapidly due to the emmisions. the only statistic i know is that from the 7.3 to the 6.4 there was an decrease in emisions of over 125%
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-14-2007, 6:35 PM Reply   
Over 125%... so it cleans the air?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-14-2007, 8:11 PM Reply   
american trucks are made crappy, all of them.

That is and ignorant and idiotic statement we're all a little dumber after having read it.
Old    Jason (azpowerhouse)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-14-2007, 8:22 PM Reply   
I concur with HNP.
Old    stillstandin            11-14-2007, 8:28 PM Reply   
Ohhhh, I dont know, I got told by a coworker today, that his new Tundra would out tow my Duramax. Guess I bought the wrong truck.
Old    Tyler McCurdy (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-15-2007, 1:44 AM Reply   
Tell your coworker to put his new tundra up as a wager on that bet!!!
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-15-2007, 5:48 AM Reply   
^^^It must be true. I'm sure the Toyota sales man told him it would.
Old    stillstandin            11-15-2007, 8:47 AM Reply   
Ya, he couldnt understand why I couldnt stop laughing. I even walked up and complemented his truck, I told him it was nice. He then spouted off, that he could out tow mine. He then started talking about how fast it was in the quarter mile. I had to explain to him I didnt by my truck to do quarter mile runs, but if he wanted to hook up ten thousand pounds, I would do one.:-) I think toyota is actually telling people these trucks will out tow, and out last our diesels. It is a great 1/2 ton truck no doubt, but come on.
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-15-2007, 8:58 AM Reply   
Bring two big tow chains and hook them to his truck at the end of the day. You go one way and he goes the other (red neck style).
Old    liquid ryder (pilot_ryder)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-15-2007, 3:08 PM Reply   
trace, no from the 7.3 to the 6.0 there was 60% less emissions and from that to the 6.4 there was around 65% cleaner.
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       11-15-2007, 3:55 PM Reply   
they are made crappy, i have owend fords chevys dodges my entire life, and i still own a dodge diesel, and will be getting a chevy soon.

im comparison to quality i think toyota builds a better truck.

why else do they sell more then both ford and chevy?
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       11-15-2007, 4:02 PM Reply   
nv5600 trans where put in dodge trucks not ever in the chevys,

the bell housing mounts are different to the trans for the nv4500 and 5600.

I have only seen one person do the 6 speed in a chevy motor personally and it was 4wheeler magazine.

they built the 5600 from 98-2002 after that they went to the mercedes transmission.

98-00 has the smaller imput and will handle less the then 00.5s - 2002 models.

the 4500 was featured in the 3/4 ton chevy manuals. usually 454 powered and diesel powered trucks and some half tons i believe.

more or less same trans with diff gear ratios..

nv4500s are still built today. 5600s are not. u can buy them rebuilt but plan on forking out about 4gs


scott u are right the nv4500s u can get parts for the 5600s are very hard to. i am on my 3rd month waiting for parts for mine. i have so far grenaded 2 heavy duty race clutchs and a trans in my dodge diesel. ya for dieses! ugg!


they dont make oem parts any more which sucks and the parts guys are not quite catching up to demand for parts on these trans. to be honest the merceds trans is better anyways.
Old    Andy Parsons (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       11-15-2007, 4:04 PM Reply   
hate, jason,

i am loyal to american trucks, but honestly toyotas are much better built vehicles.

but they dont sell diesels that can compete with the big 3, not yet anyways. just watch the big 3 market decline more when toyota starts catering to 3/4 ton and 1 ton guys. look out ford chevy dodge.
Old    trainwreck (trainwreck)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-15-2007, 4:16 PM Reply   
If you're still looking for one I am selling a lightly used 2007 Dodge w/the 5.9 4x4 patriot blue. PM or email me for more details. I'm in Houston, TX.
Old    Jason (azpowerhouse)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-15-2007, 10:54 PM Reply   
Personally I think the tundra looks like a ram, yet somehow uglier. Also, I could spend a few k, and have the hemi re-worked, and it would be stronger/faster than a tundra, then I could also throw a blower on it as well. I am just not a toyota/tundra fan, never will be.
Old    Jason (azpowerhouse)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-15-2007, 10:57 PM Reply   
Hey John I would go with either, family, and co-workers have had both, and ran them with full loads (over the ratings sometimes) never any problems. 100k to 200k miles....if not more.
Old    liquid ryder (pilot_ryder)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-16-2007, 4:37 PM Reply   
drove a tundra recently, what a rocket of a truck, had it to 130 (kph) in no time, pedal is super touchy, probably broke the wheels free around 5 times!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=taohi5xsk80

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