Wake 101
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through October 28, 2007

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       10-18-2007, 7:09 AM Reply   
Look on the front page.

Couple of things I noticed.

Supra and Moomba are coming and fast.
What is up with the huge decrease in Sanger?
Why no Epic? Wakecraft is on there but no Epic.
Old     (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-18-2007, 8:09 AM Reply   
I think it would be cool to break it down into territory. What sells the best in the South East or up North etc.
Supra and Moomba increased big in percentage but how many units is that? I wonder if they have a report with unit numbers as well.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-18-2007, 8:35 AM Reply   
The report has all the numbers in it. We just have to convince Dave to let us see it all for free and not worry about any complicated legal stuff.
Old     (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       10-18-2007, 8:51 AM Reply   
I'd love to see the numbers from last year to this year.... especially in my area. So-Cal.
The housing market is in the toilet... I am sure boat sales are there too.
Old     (coldlake)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-18-2007, 9:05 AM Reply   
I betcha the change in Sanger is not great, it's only a %age - they may not be keeping up with segment growth overall.

BUT clearly, the end of the world is nearly upon us since Rinker has now appeared in the list !
Old     (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-18-2007, 9:07 AM Reply   
Here are some numbers from last year.

MasterCraft, located in Vonore, TN, is the world’s second largest builder (about 2300 units in 2006) of water ski and wakeboard boats, after west coast builder Malibu (2900 units in ’06). The total US market for these specialized inboard-powered boats is about 10,000 annually, with the rest of the market made up primarily of Correct Craft (1600 units), Moomba (1260 units), Supra (644 units) and Tigé (850 units).

So the rest of the 450 boats (out of the 10,000) are split between the other brands not mentioned above.

(Message edited by waterfreak on October 18, 2007)
Old     (sanddragon2004)      Join Date: Jul 2005       10-18-2007, 9:41 AM Reply   
wow moomba is ranked number 4?
Old     (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-18-2007, 10:09 AM Reply   
yes for boat sales in 06.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-18-2007, 10:19 AM Reply   
I can tell you this is not correct.
Centurion Sells more boats than Tige and sells more than 450 per year

"So the rest of the 450 boats (out of the 10,000) are split between the other brands not mentioned above. "
Old     (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-18-2007, 10:26 AM Reply   
I noticed this too and I am not sure why they are not listed. The numbers above where pulled off of a MC press release direct from headquarters when Penske bought the company.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-18-2007, 10:27 AM Reply   
Ok well that explains it
Old     (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-18-2007, 10:28 AM Reply   
From the release:

"A Hot Category

MasterCraft, located in Vonore, TN, is the world’s second largest builder (about 2300 units in 2006) of water ski and wakeboard boats, after west coast builder Malibu (2900 units in ’06). The total US market for these specialized inboard-powered boats is about 10,000 annually, with the rest of the market made up primarily of Correct Craft (1600 units), Moomba (1260 units), Supra (644 units) and Tigé (850 units).

The market for these boats is small, but it has been one of the few growing categories in the sport over the last few years, thanks to the advent of wakeboarding – both with and without a tow rope. It is simply snowboarding on the water, with about the same constituency. Ski/wakeboard boats are also complex and the most creatively-designed boats on the market these days for their size. They are also expensive.

Electricity in the Hallways

Located on the banks of Lake Tellico, south of Knoxville, MasterCraft tests every one of its boats before shipment and has professional ski/wakeboarders on staff to work out the wrinkles on new products and suggest innovations.

Company president and CEO John Dorton says that the plant will stay in Vonore and will likely add employees due to booming international sales and its saltwater line. “The entire management team will stay intact,” Dorton said, and that is likely to be true since one of the stated acquisition requirements of TRP is a solid management team already in place. MasterCraft has that and the halls of the executive offices are electric with excitement – more what one might expect in Silicone Valley than in the sleepy boating industry – as the young execs dart from meeting to meeting, cooking up the next ad campaign, or product feature, or new model.

5,000 Annual units in 5 Years?

Dorton also said he expects business to double for MasterCraft during the next five years and with this deal the company will have the financial backing (thanks to Jefferies and Co.) to meet its goals. Roger Penske said in the press release, "MasterCraft has established an outstanding reputation for performance, quality and product innovation. We are pleased to have joined the MasterCraft team and look forward to supporting the company during the next phase of its growth."

In the M&A business, the seller usually knows more about the company and its prospects than the buyer, and often that is why the company is on the market. But in this case, it looks like the VC owners made a tidy profit and would like to move on given the volatility of the boating market, and the new VC buyers have their eyes wide open and some pretty big plans.

Andrew Janower, managing director of Charlesbank Capital Partners, also commented on the acquisition in the release, saying, “…We have partnered successfully with TRP in the past, and now we look forward to putting our combined strength behind the preeminent MasterCraft brand to help the company capitalize on its many opportunities for growth."
Old     (dansmith)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-18-2007, 10:30 AM Reply   
According to WaterSki Magazine's '07 Boat issue:

Total boats made in '06 for Centurion was 1,600
Total boats made in '06 for Tige was 1,300

Now, I realize that is 'Total boats MADE', but if Centurion wasn't selling at least 80% of their boats, they'd be out of business. Plus, MB claims to have made 330 boats in '06, Sanger claims 460. waterfreak's math just isn't adding up.

Correction...MasterCraft's math just isn't adding up!

(Message edited by dan.smith on October 18, 2007)
Old     (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-18-2007, 10:41 AM Reply   
Yes those numbers can't be right. I found this when I searched for more info on the Penske buyout of MC.

Roger Penske is now in the boat business.

Automotive entrepreneur Penske is a managing director of Bloomfield Hills-based Transportation Resource Partners L.P., a $265 million private-equity fund that announced Thursday it has partnered with another firm, Boston-based Charlesbank Capital Partners L.L.C., to buy Tennessee-based MasterCraft Boat Co.

The sale price was not disclosed.

In July, the company reported it ended fiscal 2007 with revenue of $199.2 million on the sale of 3,639 boats.

MasterCraft has dominated the high-performance inboard sport market, and is the official tow boat at water-skiing and wakeboard tournaments around the world. CEO and President John Dorton, who will remain with the company, said the firm wants to double revenue in five years.
Old     (deltaboy)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-18-2007, 12:09 PM Reply   
Go Wakecraft!
Old     (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-18-2007, 12:35 PM Reply   
Are you guys sure they are not talking about boats sold as in "registered" units? Not boats sold to dealers but to customers.
Old     (waterfreak)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-18-2007, 12:42 PM Reply   
no idea. What is interesting and seems to fit is if you take the number above 199.2 million from MC and divide by 3639 boats you get average price of 54,750 for each boat which seems about right.
Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       10-18-2007, 12:49 PM Reply   
yep...I'd like to know the same.

I'd also like to know which market MC is dominating in.
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-18-2007, 3:52 PM Reply   
some people might get the 199.2 mixed up. 199.2 is the money that MC made off of the dealers buying the boats. not the dealer selling the boats to the customers. and if they want to double they're revenue in five years they are going to have to cut prices because with they way the economy is going that will never happen. if they were able to cut the prices back about 10 grand then they might be able get a close to doubling their revenue but really do you think another 3,639 people a year are going to decide to go drop 80 plus grand on a boat. i don't think so.
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-18-2007, 4:23 PM Reply   
Mark my words!!!

By 2010... there will be a total of 32,759 tournament inboards sold in North America.

EPIC will have sold 32,687 of them... leaving the remaining competitors fighting for the remaining 72 units of market share.
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-18-2007, 4:35 PM Reply   
lol that was a good joke. from what i've heard epic has been having some problems with the 8.1L motors. i could carre less about how big the wake is if theres no motor to push it. don't get me wrong more power to them to sell more boats. but they'll only get up to the 2 or 3 thousand mark.
Old     (duckguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-18-2007, 5:05 PM Reply   
I think you guys will be eating your words about MC in the comming years
Old     (jaysus)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-18-2007, 5:45 PM Reply   
Those figures are from the 48 states. MasterCraft has a large presence worldwide between the recent growth of the dealer network overseas and the salt-water series which are not included in the Q2 #'s.

(Message edited by jaysus on October 18, 2007)
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-18-2007, 6:10 PM Reply   
The same can be said for Malibu also. It didn't even take into account their plant in Australia.
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-18-2007, 6:17 PM Reply   
all the big brands (MC, BU, CC, Tige, Supra) have plants or sale over seas.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-18-2007, 9:09 PM Reply   
Here are some samples that have good numbers.
Look at the Fiberglass boat numbers and the Ski boat numbers. They're interesting.
The sample numbers are from a couple of years ago.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       10-18-2007, 9:12 PM Reply   
Art, that is the same company that provides us with the numbers you see linked from the front page.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-18-2007, 9:18 PM Reply   
That's what I figured Dave. But can you show us the total sale? (OK, I know you probably can't)
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       10-19-2007, 1:13 AM Reply   
They don't even send me the sales numbers any more. This is all we get.
Old     (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-19-2007, 6:33 AM Reply   
Wow, noticed how far up the ladder Moomba has come in the last couple of years.

Way to go Tinker!

(Message edited by Seattle on October 19, 2007)
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-19-2007, 4:51 PM Reply   
Skiers Choice has get a great marketing/sales plan....

You build a top notch boat with Supra... price it accordingly... if you have the money... you buy it...

If you dont have the money but... want the same hull... same motor... same wakeplate etc... just different interior... then you buy the Moomba...

Its a no brainer how they gradually get more market share...
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-19-2007, 4:55 PM Reply   
Lacefield... Epic is working with a couple of different motors... personally... I wish they would go with the original motor... the PCM ZR6... but the people building the boat for them is a runabout inboard/outboard manufacturer who uses Volvo... but I think you may see a Mercruiser Black Scorpion 6.2L MX in one of the demo/test boats.

Look on the bright side though.. if you have an 8.1L and it dies on you... imagine how much money you will save on gas... it won't consume any!

But seriously... they are working on things... when all the bugs are worked out... hopefully they will be able to come out with a 20-21 footer that is as creative at the 23V... hopefully without the blunt nose....

Love the way the new Tiges are looking... but I wish they would go back to the running surface of the 21V riders or 20V riders... loved those running surfaces than their latest models...
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-19-2007, 6:09 PM Reply   
HeHateMe. i think epic would be better off with the Merc's. at my fams dealership we don't order any boats with volvo's because we've always had problems in the past with them. Merc's, Marine Power, and Honda outboards. we never have any serious problems with those 3. we had one problem with a 6.1L Marine Power that lost compression on one side of the block. we had a brand new complete motor by the end of the week and the customer in the water mid week the next week. check out the new 21 foot tige Z1 if you have a chance. the boats impressive for the price
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       10-19-2007, 11:34 PM Reply   
also hamkj
supra and moomba do not share any of the same hulls
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-23-2007, 9:13 PM Reply &orderType=ASC& age=advanced_search&reason=display&mfg_cnt=1&limit =15&boatType=1&category=102&lengthMin=22&lengthMax =24&yearMin=2006&yearMax=2008&priceMin=55670&price Max=75319

There are two 2007 Epics sold in the Temple AZ area.
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-23-2007, 9:18 PM Reply   
Here is another one.

And there is another one on the classifieds too... so that is 4 total just in 2007.
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       10-23-2007, 9:42 PM Reply   
not trying to start a war, but who are you.....?
any of us that have been on this board for any time kind of sit back and laugh how you play sides.... you used to be epic's biggest supporter... then you were against them, then you were for them, then you were against them... then .... well we are not sure what you are.....
can you use this post to say you are with them or against them? Cheers and glad you got your toys in your garage....might be time to upgrade the garage... did not see an epic in the garage either.... all in fun... cheers
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-24-2007, 8:48 AM Reply   
Diggs... I never try and start wars either, but there are some very passionate people who read these forums and comment about my comments.

As with any boat or any topic...

I comment as I see it.

When I bought my first tournament boat... the Aztec Crow... hahah... I had both good and bad things to say... and it was personal first hand experience... but because there were no other passionate fans of the Aztec Crow... nobody got their knickers in a knot.

Then I bought my Supreme... and there is both good and bad again... there are not too many passionate fas on the Supreme either... so good and bad comments go without response.

I am very interested in both the Epic 23V, WakeCraft, and Tige RZ2, which are all very different beasts... They all have things I love... and other things I question...

As I research and get to use these boats more and more... the more I learn.. and the more I comment on them... I am not here to make friends or start wars... but to comment on my own personal experiences...

for example... Tige RZ2 - love the look... but at the end of the day it is still the 22ve... which I dont like the wake it produces.

WakeCraft - dont mind the tower.. some hate it. Exhaust is noisy. Like the the trailer, but I would rather have simple trailer and lower cost on the boat.

Epic - Love the old beat up black prototype. It was bullet proof. Love their trailers they are having built. Dont like the blunt nose.. would like picklefork. Don't like their choice of engine and the only one I get personal experience with has been in the shop on a daily/weekly basis. BUT... It is the biggest stock wake... NO DOUBT!

I don't know what could shatter the Q2 boat sales numbers...

But reading many peoples comments on what they want in a boat...

21 Foot - With WakeCraft Trailer, Epic Wake, Malibu Dash and Interior, X-Star Look, Rick Tinker Backed, SAN Reputation, Tige Warranty, etc etc etc.

I think that would be a winner!
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-24-2007, 9:02 AM Reply   
hamjk- you forgot 'Sanger priced'
Old     (deltaboy)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-24-2007, 9:07 AM Reply   
Tige warranty? Im too lazzzzzy to look it up what is it?
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-24-2007, 10:21 AM Reply   
kevin- lifetime replacement on the hull(if it delaminates or anything like that they give you a brand new boat)3 years motor/v-drive, 3 years on viynl, i think a 2 year bow to stern on ransome stuff throught the boat. and i think 2 years on the gauges.

HeHateMe- what is it about the RZ2 besides that it handle like a dream(weighted and non weighted), has a wider wake(seems a little wider to me and everyone else that rides my boat), and the wake seems to give off a some more pop. that makes it just like the 22ve. tige says that the 2 boats are the same from the driver seat back but it sure does seem like a totally different boat to me and everyone else that spent 100 hours riding and driving my 22ve last year and now riding and driving my RZ2 this year.
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-24-2007, 11:04 AM Reply   
Ryan... I havent had extensive time in the 22ve.. So I never got to sack it out etc... just some people and Taps... so it was just an average wake... I do like the original 20V wake... no spray pocket... little narrower... and was easy to kick up a nice wake...

In general... I feel that most of the new boats can kick up pro sized wakes... just comes down to how you weight it... and some boats make that easier than others...

I don't know if there is a boat out there on the market today that anyone could say has a horrible wake... just have to know how much and where to put the weight.

Hey Ryan... if you want.. you can give me a RZ2 for next summer and I will try and sell a few for you! ;o)
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-24-2007, 12:23 PM Reply   
hahahaha i have a hard time getting an RZ2 out of my parents. i don't think they would be too cool with me sending off an order for 2 fully loaded RZ2's. maybe when they retire and i buy the business we can work a deal out lol.


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:03 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home


© 2016 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us