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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through November 29, 2007

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Old    Jared (lfs56)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2007, 5:34 AM Reply   
are wakeboards supposed to have some flex in them? i just bought a different one and havn't had the chance to ride it but i can put it on the floor and push down on both ends and it will give some. i don't have another board here to compare it with right now so i was just wonderin?
Old    Adam Greer (premier135rider)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-10-2007, 5:50 AM Reply   
some boards have more flex than others. The stiffness changes the ride and feel of the board. All boards have flex. And some after your ride them for a while can lose alot of their stiffness. But flex is normal....
Old    dale boyd (dizzlestoy)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-10-2007, 3:05 PM Reply   
a slingshot board would have alot of FLEX
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-11-2007, 11:58 AM Reply   
If your board has FLEX.YOU ARE PUSHING WATER
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-21-2007, 11:25 AM Reply   
All boards will have A little flex,if you turn a board upside-down And put a 150lbs on it it should flex no more than a 1/8 of an In. even a carbonfiber board
If your board has more flex than a 1/8,when you hit the wake your tail is in flex,AND YOUR LOSING ENERGY!!!,Pop is realy coming when your in the air,when the board is going back the natural shape of the rocker.
Old    Jerm I. Side (jermiside)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-21-2007, 5:44 PM Reply   
Moose your funny man! But your post has some merit. I always understood that a stiffer board with little flex created the best pop. I rode a Roam once and it was like a noodle--no pop. Can you explain in more detail how a board gets pop?
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-21-2007, 8:13 PM Reply   
I ride a Roam every so often and the board pops pretty good imo. I am not a good rider by any means but friend of mine can do all of his inverts and spins on a roam. I have a feeling flex and materials will be the next big tech. improvments.

15 years ago golf club designers would have made fun of you for building a driver with a face that flexed on purpose. Now look at where they are at.

That being said after watching guys with skills ride a wakeboard I would never judge the performance of a board by how a Rusty, Danny, or Phillip rides them. I have a feeling those guys could ride a 1x12 and still look good.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-21-2007, 11:34 PM Reply   
i can get more pop and go bigger on a roam(which has more flex than any other board out there), than i can on a normal board. its all in your technique and how you ride. i am willing to wager quite a bit that all boards in the fute will have quite a bit of flex to them
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-25-2007, 1:16 PM Reply   
Ewing,I'm not looking for EVER SO OFTEN,Bro I want EVERY TIME.
Jerm,I don't call it pop ,I call it BLAST,I want to BLAST off the wake,right into space.If you want the max. BLAST ,A flat stiff board will do just fine,anything less ,you losing ENERGY.
It's just SIMPLE PHYSICS
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-25-2007, 6:29 PM Reply   
Moose I only ride the roam for something different. My friends and I are able to get the same pop, maybe more, with the super flexy roam as our regular ride. I agree with Jason in that newer boards will have more flex to build, store, and then release energy...which will become pop/blast.
Old    Tyler Hildebrand (ty540)      Join Date: Nov 2001       09-26-2007, 8:51 AM Reply   
MOOSE,

Unfortunately, physics is not simple. Different techniques (edging and release off the wake) work better for different flex patterns.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-26-2007, 2:00 PM Reply   
Incase none of you took the time to go to "MOOSEs" website...here is a preview...
Upload

No further comments
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-26-2007, 3:13 PM Reply   
is that a directional board and sandal bindings? directional boards died a long time ago due to "simple (hydro) physics"

(Message edited by wakebrdr38 on September 26, 2007)
Old    JM (iukekini)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-26-2007, 3:51 PM Reply   
Actually I think that it is simple physics. Now it has been a few years since my last physics class but my guess is that things haven’t changed too much since then. I was in now way shape or form a stellar physics student so I’m not going to claim this is 100% right, but this is the way that I see it.

I’m sure that all of you remember Hooke’s Law:

F=-kx

F = Restoring Force
k = Spring constant (Force/Distance)
x = Length material is elongated

A board like a slingshot which has a stiff flex and more importantly has rebound is going to have a high -k value. (More Restoring force per distance flexed)
A board like a worn out wakeboard or a roam (previously been described as a wet noodle) is going to have a very low -k value. (Small restoring force)
In theory a board which doesn’t flex would have an infinite -k value. (If you take the limit as the stiffness increases and the distance flexed goes to 0, k->infinity)

Hooke’s law is great for us to be able to understand where our k values come from but the real equation we are interested in is the integral of Hooke’s Law. By integrating Hooke’s Law we are given the equation to determine the potential energy stored by a spring (or a wakeboard).

U=1/2 kx^2

The potential energy that is stored in a board is going to vary directly with how large the k value is and how far it is flexed.

A board with a high k value (Slingshot) is going to have the most potential energy stored in it.
A board with a low k value (worn out board or Roam) is going to have very little potential energy stored in it and will flex too much. The problem here is that the restoring force will not restore the board to its original shape fast enough. Meaning the board will not release the potential energy till its too late.
A stiff board is interesting because theoretically it has an infinite k value but since it does not flex at all the x is zero and there is no potential energy in the board.

There are many other forces that act on the board to give you pop (acceleration into the wake, downward force of the board from edging, upward force of the water) when you turn the potential energy in a wakeboard into kinetic energy it is going to give you more force off the water which is equal to pop or BLAST if you will.

The problem with flex boards is finding a board with the right k value. If your k value is too large you will not be able to flex it and won’t be able to store any energy in it. If you k value is too low your board is going to store very little energy and may actually absorb some of the pop off of the wake. With the right amount of flex and rebound used properly you are going to get more pop. IT’S PHYSICS

(Message edited by iukekini on September 26, 2007)
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-26-2007, 3:59 PM Reply   
Name one wakeboard that doesn't flex at all.

Its why CWB has the Platinum core, it is stiffer than the foam core. I can still bend it no problem.
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-26-2007, 4:09 PM Reply   
OK Wake Tech flight 69 not much flex Big Heavy
Old    Joseph Townsend (s8nsmum)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-27-2007, 3:13 AM Reply   
Wow, that is probably some of the worst physics I have seen in a long time. While all the equations were correct their application was all wrong.

Point 1 - You claim that a stiffer board will have more energy stored in it. This would only be correct if the deflection of the board is the same in each case. If you (correctly) assume the force to be the same in each case (because you have the same bloke standing on it and cutting up the wake) then more energy will be stored in the less stiff board. You can see this by substituting F=-Kx back into U=1/2kx^2 to get U=1/2Fx i.e. Energy stored is directly proportional to the force (same in both) and the deflection (larger in the less stiff board).

Point 2 - Conversion of this potential energy into upwards kinetic energy or pop. This simply won't happen. The board will only regain it's origonal shape when the force that is bending the board is taken away i.e. when you release from the wake and are in the air. By then it is too late.

Point 3 - Does it matter? The fact that you store this energy in the board will make very little difference. When I stand on my board (force of around 800N) it deflects by around 2cm (0.02m) giving a total energy of 16J!!!!!! Even if I managed to stamp out and additional 5g when I left the wake it would only store around 80J which is enough to lift my body and extra 0.1M into the air! This last calculation is assuming that you have a limited amount of energy to put into your jump, which simply isn't the case, you may have a limit to the force you can exert before your knees buckle or you bend over at the waist but that will be the same no matter how bendy your board is.

What really matters is how well your board suits you. If you have your timing correct for the particular board you are riding then you will jump high, if you have not quite figured out the board yet then you won't.

The reason people are able to jump higher on a stiffer board (can they?) may simply be because they are able to exert a larger force with their legs on the surface of the water when standing tall at the top of the wake.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2007, 6:36 AM Reply   
Upload
Old    JM (iukekini)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-27-2007, 9:41 AM Reply   
Point 1 - F is not the Force that you are putting on the board it is the restoring force in the board. F is going to be more for a stiffer board and less for a softer board. Therefore a stiffer board flexed the same distance is going to have more potential energy in it.

Point 2 - The pop doesn't happen instantly. As you transfer off the wake the potential energy transfers into kinetic energy. I have experienced it.

Point 3 - Honestly my approximation of a stiff foam core board, like yours, was to say that it had no potential energy in it, so I was close. Now is a Slingshot different? yes. If you have ever flexed one you will know what I mean.

(Message edited by iukekini on September 27, 2007)
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-28-2007, 1:15 PM Reply   
Hey,I didn't know this was Wakeboard fantasy design camp,I live in the REAL WORLD,Fact Space age technology been around since the 50's,Water hasn't changed in 1,000,000'S of years{not a bit},So why are there SO MANY DIFFERENT SHAPES out there for nearly 18+years?Theirs not 2 BOARDS OUT THERE that even look alike.If you took the Surfboard for example{we're going to use a 9 foot log just to say}there are 100's & 100's of board Makers ALL ON THE SAME PAGE,but there not 3 wakeboards who can agree on just one design,And if it not written a Mag.then it don't count.Well I'm going to make it count now that I'm THE NEW WEST COAST EDITOR OF "LINE UP SURF MAG."
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       09-28-2007, 1:40 PM Reply   
I thought they were called "SHREDSTICKS"?
Old    proho (proho)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-29-2007, 9:04 AM Reply   
First of all, I don't think hooke's law works on rigid bodies i.e. a perfectly stiff board. secondly your F should be a constant. If your approach is consistent you should now an equal and opposite force should be applied upward so that you don't sink into the water. so with the force constant a stiffer board will only offer less displacement. Now this only applies to while riding/while cutting cuz who really knows what forcers are involved at the wake.

What about the importance of where the flx is located. what about a board that is rigid between your feet and flexible in the tip and tail.
Old    john doe (whocares)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-29-2007, 10:25 AM Reply   
moose those "wakeboards" look like something my grandpa handed down through the generations
Old    john doe (whocares)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-29-2007, 10:25 AM Reply   
moose those "wakeboards" look like something my grandpa handed down through the generations
Old    david (dnp33)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-29-2007, 10:42 AM Reply   
moose, how old is that site. honestly your products all look like there from 1995(including the short shorts.) is that for real, or just a really old website.
Old    Slingshot (flexnwake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-01-2007, 9:43 AM Reply   
How did the bunny get the pancake on its head?
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       10-12-2007, 12:41 PM Reply   
J.D.,Water has been handed down though the generations too,nothings changed a bit.The secret to a great shape is knowing when to stop,just ask the N.B.A. look what happened when thay changed the ball,what?NEW TECHNOLOGY, Thay went back to the old ball in like what? 6 weeks{same old hoop & backboard set @ 10 feet}when it's round it's round,and knowing when to stop is the SECERT,And I didn't know that the Double-Concave,Battail W/Step Down Rails was out,I thought it was the hottest thing.
Old    Slingshot (flexnwake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-12-2007, 3:01 PM Reply   
Is it moose season yet?
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       10-15-2007, 12:53 PM Reply   
It's Allways Moose season,I let all Kooks take pot-shots all day long.
This is the thing, sling{fakeNwake}
20 years ago I had 5 champs Surfing for me,and I was making all these thin Pocket Rockets for my champs,and I would allways dream of riding these Magic Boards,but I couldn't because I weighted 245 lb. I would never be able to get a wave,So making a wakeboard you take the {Catch The Wave out of the equation}And thats the biggest factor in making a surfboard,But Now your going to let me surf behind a boat,and this boat going to PULL me TOO.That like being droped on to a perfect wave without padding for it,give me a break,THIS WAS WAY TO EASY,Make a board that rips,And I don't to catch a wave or {Wake}.I think I'll call this thing a WAKEBOARD
Old    Chris Johnson (team_o)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-15-2007, 3:05 PM Reply   
Apparentlhy Moose is from the days before Football switched away from Leather helmets.

Ha ha just kidding!

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