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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through October 14, 2007

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Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-05-2007, 2:06 PM Reply   
$4,000,000 will buy a 400 campsites, 2 lakes that we can ride on, 1 lake perfect size for cable park, and 1 other smaller fishing lake totaling 600 acres. One hour from Indy. Add $500K for cablepark install and $500K initial cash = $5,000,000. So we need $1,000,000 down payment and we own it forever.

Question How do we raise $1,000,000 to start non profit. Cant sell lots or any ownership rights just memberships to club. How?
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       10-05-2007, 3:14 PM Reply   
hour from Indy which direction? Have friends with deep pockets would be a nice start.
Old    kal schultz (kal_dude)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-05-2007, 4:21 PM Reply   
how bad do you want it? email me!
kaldude@unfranchise.com
Old    Matt (metz213)      Join Date: Dec 2006       10-05-2007, 7:07 PM Reply   
location?
Old    Allie Capler (alliecat0223)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-06-2007, 1:43 PM Reply   
Bring it up at the fall event when ever that is. Talk to our local boat shops and others that might be willing to help come up with the cash and say that they sponsor it. Have your big mouth friend put the world out to help and work out there. LOL.
Oh Chris I need Sarahs e-mail so I can invite her to something that I am doing.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       10-06-2007, 3:53 PM Reply   
Allie- I truely doubt that ANY local boat shops have that kinda cash that they would be willing to say they sponsor this. ROI I would say would be lacking there.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-06-2007, 5:41 PM Reply   
I am throwing down a challange I pledge $5,000. SHOUT OUT AND COUNT DOWN $995,000 TO GO Allie, Matt, Kal, Jim T come on? All non-profit owned by all of us. Indy needs it bad
Old    Tim (suckbuthavefun)      Join Date: May 2003       10-08-2007, 8:14 AM Reply   
I'm good for $2.47!

Only $994,997.53 to go!
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-08-2007, 8:17 AM Reply   
Ill put up $0.52.

$994,997.01 left.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-08-2007, 8:41 AM Reply   
why non profit???
Old    Montgomery (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-08-2007, 9:44 AM Reply   
why not non profit ?
Old    Kalen K (kalenk)      Join Date: Feb 2007       10-08-2007, 10:19 AM Reply   
leo lasecki

that would have been kind of funny but tim made the same type of joke right before you. you must have missed that.

as for this great idea. keep working on it. this would be bodacious.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-08-2007, 11:44 AM Reply   
it would probably be harder to do a non-profit and i'm sure it would limit you as well. Plus, if no one owns the campsites, is the initial money considered a donation? So basically you can never recover the money you put into the deal?
Old    kevin studevant (3dsrider)      Join Date: Sep 2005       10-08-2007, 12:14 PM Reply   
A cable park in near indy would be sick. wheres the location at?
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-08-2007, 1:42 PM Reply   
The non-profit already exists. Indiana Riders Club is the states NWL tournament organization. We sanctioned 5 events thru NWL last year including our spring event that raised $1800 for the American Cancer Society.

If the American Leagion can have a bar, and the city have a Sailboat Club, and Boy Scouts have a Camp why cant we have a Wakeboard and Cable Park?

To build a cable park in the Midwest is not a very good business venture. However we could have a profitable campground to fund it. Why not let the fishermen pay for our cable park?

The initial money would be a donation. If we were to sell campsites we would then have a lake owned by a bunch of property owners who would never give up the lake to run a tournament. We already have hundreds of those lakes now that wont let us ride. Plus it is the solution to law suit problem at most private lakes. This is seen way too often on ski lakes when a skier sells to a non skier on the seconday market and sues the lake association to make it a fishing lake. Dont laugh it happens all the time. Now that being said, the club will lease you the campsite but you cant buy it. It will forever remain a wakeboard club.
Old    Rob (geistwatersportscom)      Join Date: Dec 2006       10-08-2007, 2:17 PM Reply   
Chris, what lakes are you talking about? I can't picture the area you are talking about and I have been all over Indiana.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-08-2007, 3:13 PM Reply   
The location is very real and info will be forthcoming as soon as it passes a few things.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-11-2007, 3:52 PM Reply   
Chris, I think if you change the terminology it'll make it easier. It's tax-exempt, as opposed to the oft misunderstood non-profit. You can organize it under 501(c)(7) as a recreation/social club then only the UBTI would be subject to taxation.

Just make sure the entity keeps within the 35%/15% reg's.

Briefly, the Tax Exempt Organization can't receive more than 35% of its gross receipts from outside its membership and no more than 15% of its gross receipts are derived from nonmember use of club facilities.

If you limit use of the facility to MEMBERS ONLY, other than some limited one time closures for things like rental to large corporate event, you should be able to pull it off. If the camp ground rental had the potential to exceed the 35/15 reg's you'd just have to monitor that closely in-season.

OH! and you'd have to have wakesurf specific provisions in the by-laws. :-)
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-11-2007, 4:55 PM Reply   
Jeff Im glad your on this post. There is no question campground rental will exceed these reg's.

Non wakeboarders/wakesurfers such as fisherman and campers are going to foot the bill. Therefore I do not want a fisherman and campers to have any sayso on wakeboarders. EVER. If that were to happen or if a corp were to focus on the economics, wakeboarders would loose and more fishing. If we pay a little taxes along the way thats ok. Giving up control. Never

I think, asking some one to donate to a non profit and get a tax deduction today would not be as hard as to asking someone to invest in a corp that has no intention on producing a profit. More importantly adding the risk that the stockholders would sell to someone who thinks that you should make a profit and then wakeboarding is gone forever. We already have 100's of those lake in Indiana already. Which is why the Pro Tour and National Championship are no longer in Indiana.

This is not about economics it about all of us pitching in to make it work. What do you think?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-11-2007, 7:08 PM Reply   
First things first...the tax reg's are complicated in this area. In order to be tax deductible, the contribution needs to be to a registered charity - typically 501(c)(3) orgs...there isn't anyway that I can see this being a charitable organization. So...you can be tax exempt, and you can receive donations, they just aren't tax deductible to the donor.

Would it be possible to form a few 501(c)(7)'s? One for fishing folks, one for campers, one for wake enthusiasts? You'd be able to avoid the 35/15 reg's pretty easily and perhaps increase the base of folks that would be willing to ante up for the membership? Or does that risk losing control of the wakeboarding/wakesurfing portion.

It sounds like the seller is willing to carry back a 3.5 mil note, I would think that individual memberships and corporate sponsored memberships (individuals) could make up the 1/2 mil down. Will the cable park folks finance until you get membership numbers up?
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       10-11-2007, 8:27 PM Reply   
The risk of loosing control is almost unavoidable. I only see revenues of water at 20% vs 80% for camping. If you give the camper/fishermen 80% control I dont think they will like wakeboarders near the ranger bass boats.

Question? If I give a $1000 donation to USA Wakeboard that is a non profit and the national governing body to our sport and member of US Olympic Committee and that donation is above and beyond a simple membership fee, is that not tax deductable? Now you have me doubting. Are there differences in Non Profit orgs.

The way I see it. This property will be owned by the state affiliate and will own all and control all including the campground. The campground is for the members.

Does not Goodwill Industries operate this way? Instead of giving funding to special needs people we fund a trainning grounds for an olympic sport.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-11-2007, 8:54 PM Reply   
I am winging this, I don't have the code at home :-) but I do believe there are 17 different tax exempt organizations defined at 501. However, only 5 can accept tax deductible charitable contrubutions...again, from my 51 year old memory :-) It's all listed in Pub 526.

1. A community chest, corporation, trust, organized for/to:

a. Religious
b. Charitable
c. Educational
d. Scientific
e. Literary
f. Prevention of cruelty to children

AND certain organization that foster national and international sports competitions.

2. War veterans’ organizations, including Civil defense organizations.

3. Domestic fraternal societies

4. Certain nonprofit cemetaries

5. The United States or any state

I would think that USA Wakeboard, like the Olympics qualify under that last entry in 1 above. If the State affiliate owns it, you probably on solid ground, and the 35/15 test applies to THAT organization IN TOTAL and not this individual club/501(c)(7).

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