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Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 12:31 AM Reply   
Today was the demo day for Active Water Sports here in Portland, OR. They had plenty of boats from Supra, Moomba, Malibu, Axis, and Nautique.
I had the pleasure of spending the day trying out different boards, boats, and surf systems and wanted to write a little review.
Here's a quick background of where I'm coming from.
This is my second season surfing. I normally ride a 1992 Supra Sunsport direct drive. I have prior to today also ridden a 2012 Malibu VLX and a 1997 Tige Pre2100.
I'm going to break up my review into 3 posts, 1 for each boat.

First off: Moomba Monda w/ Flow.

Today we started off with a Moomba Mondo with Flow. It had all factory ballast full and a bow sack under the seats at probably around 500lbs. We had 3 riders, all 3 including myself rode the Byerly Buzz.
We tried all 3 positions on the regular side and played with the speed some. It seemed like going right around 12mph got the best wake out of it, but on all 3 settings there wasn't a real good wake. It was marginal at best and I wasn't able to get enough push to free ride. The other rider who was also on the regular side was able to free ride a bit, but we still felt we got a better ride and more push out of the Sunsport with about 2-2.5k of ballast listed.
The goofy side was a different story. The other rider was goofy and it started off kind of rough, eventually with the flow on the second setting and the speed a tad higher with the wakeplate at about 1/2 way, he got a pretty decent wake and was able to free ride easily.

Overall, it was ok, but definitely favored the goofy side, probably due to prop rotation.
It may be able to perform better, perhaps with upgraded sacks in the rear lockers and more weight over all, but as it sits stock with just a bow sack, it wasn't that impressive.
I actually preferred the listed wake off of the direct drive sunsport than the wake from the flow.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 12:43 AM Reply   
Malibu VLX w/ Surfgate

Next we rode a Malibu VLX with surf gate. It had nothing but factory ballast completely filled. We had a few more people in the boat this time. 3 riders, and 2 observers and the driver.
I was riding the Hyperlite Shim this time. The other riders manly rode the Ronix Koal Fish.
The wave coming off of the surf gate equipped Malibu was similar, but a lot longer than the wave coming off of one without surf gate. It also had a different shape and actually wrapped back around you so the wave wasn't just off to the side, but actually pushing you from behind.

We all rode regular and the wave was fantastic. It had a ton of push and a long pocket. It actually felt like you had more push towards the back of the pocket than you did closer to the boat. There was also a lot of push in the flats as well.
I was able to freeride extremely easily and was able to do some very deep bottom turns and some nice floaters.
I did attempt to utilize the surf gate and switch over to the dark side once, but fell after I got to the other side. That is something that probably takes a little practice to get down.
The other riders were able to ride easily as well and were able to utilize the entire pocket with ease.
Comparing this to the other VLX I have ridden without surf gate, the surf gate definitely makes a difference in length and shape of the wake without robbing you of any push. I think it actually gives you more push and spreads it out across a bigger area.

Overall, the surf gate equipped Malibu had a great wake with a long pocket and tons of push. The surf gate option definitely makes a big difference.
This was the favorite wake of the day for my friend who owns the Sunsport and has also surfed the Moomba and the other VLX as well.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 1:07 AM Reply   
Nautique G25 Coastal edition with NSS:

The last boat we tried today was a Nautique G25 with NSS. It was the coastal edition.
I was mainly riding a Byerly Hazard, but also rode a Ronix Carbon Thruster. We had seven people on the boat, six riders and the driver. We were running stock ballast for whichever side we were surfing and also had a 750 in the walk way for more bow weight.

The wake on this was very nice, clean and consistent. It also formed extremely quickly as the boat got up to speed in about 3 seconds flat. As soon as you were up on the board you were already at surf speed, wait about 5-10 seconds and the wake was already formed. We had riders, both regular and goofy and also had a wakeboard set thrown in at the end as well.

The wave was long, comparable to the Malibu. It also seemed to wrap around the back of you, but not as much. It had good push all throughout the pocket, you were able to play around just about anywhere and have good push. The driver was also able to tune the wake on the fly very quick and easily. If you wanted it with more ramp (explained to us as length of the pocket) he was able to do that with a few touches on the screen. If you wanted it to have more vert (how tall the wake was, and increased push) he could do that as well. We had riders riding both skim and surf style and the wake was tuned on the fly to accommodate both styles.
One thing I found to be impressive, in addition to the on the fly tuning and how quickly the wave formed, was how well the boat reduced chop to the rider. There were several boats out at the same time, all slammed for surfing or wakeboarding in a fairly close area. We crossed paths frequently and there was almost no run where you didn't hit someone elses rollers.
In the Malibu, it would respond like you would expect. The boat hits rollers, the wake gets affected and you have to fight through the rollers on the board as well.
On the G25 however, rollers could come in, they wouldn't affect the wake much, if at all and you barely felt any of them come through while riding. Even on rough water with big rollers, it was still like riding on smooth water.

After all was said and done, my friend decided to do a wakeboard pull. By the time they hooked up the rope and he got his bindings on, the boat was already set up for wakeboarding. The transition was extremely quick.

Overall, this was my favorite wake and surf system. The wake might not have been as big or wrapped around as much as the Malibu, although it was very close. It was extremely consistent, fast forming, and wasn't affected by rollers, even if this did have to do more with boat design and size than surf system. It is a wake that you can rely on and spend more time surfing and less time waiting for the right conditions or the wave to form.

From all 3 of the boats I rode today, the G25 definitely gets my vote as the best surf system. It is a lot more controllable and customizable and very consistent. The regular wake and the goofy wake seemed to be equal. Both the surfgate and the NSS work well and are great improvements to the sport, but the NSS is more refined.


We did want to try out the Supra they had with the Swell system on it, but ran out of time. From what the dealer was telling us, it is a lot more similar to the NSS than anything, as it is very customizable and you can tune the wake more.

Well that is my review on them. The flow leaves something to be desired, but the Surfgate and NSS knock it out of the park and you can definitely see and feel the difference on these boats with their surf systems.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-18-2014, 5:16 AM Reply   
Phantom Ill be at lake Merwin next weekend you should come up and surf the 226
Attached Images
 

Last edited by h20king; 05-18-2014 at 5:18 AM.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 8:28 AM Reply   
Nice looking wake you got there. Thank you for the invite. I'll talk to my wife to see if she has anything planned for Saturday already and see about heading up to take you up on your offer.
Old     (phl)      Join Date: Aug 2013       06-01-2014, 1:47 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=h20king;1877698]Phantom Ill be at lake Merwin next weekend you should come up and surf the

Tahts what i got thos week end do you know whats the trim for goofy ?
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-27-2014, 9:44 PM Reply   
Well I have another one to add. This one is a homebrew surf system, not a professional OEM setup like the others reviewed. This one is also not exactly impartial because even though I don't own it or the boat. I did help on it and do ride the boat regularly.
The surf system in question is Trayson's SSS (Supra Surf System) on his 1992 Supra Sunsport Direct Drive.
For reference, the build thread is here:


So far I have only got to ride it once, but here is my review on it. I know some of you have asked for it, and it has been delayed on apart from being busy and being sick this week, but here it goes.

The setup is a pair of manual NSS style blades that extend up to 3" to the side of the boat and up to 3/4" below it when deployed and everywhere in between to tweak the wave. The deployment and adjustment is very easy. Either from the swim platform or in the water, you just loosen a knob slide the blade to the desired position and tighten the knob. It takes all of about 10 seconds to switch sides and about 3 to make adjustments when in the water. Being manual this cannot be done on the fly, but it is a lot quicker than draining, moving, and filling bags for other riders or to try surfing the opposite side if you want.
The boat is weighted pretty evenly with a 750* on either side of the doghouse and a 370 filled to about 350 or so under the seat.
The manual wakeplate is down about 9/16" and we are running between 8-9mph.
*We thought we had two 750s, it turns out the one on the port side is a 650 and the starboard is a 750.

So first off, I didn't get to surf it right away, owners privilege and all. But I did get to drive with it before I got to surf it.
I have to say, the boat handles way easier evenly weighted, it also doesn't have the bow raised as high and I can drive the boat sitting down instead of standing up . This is made easier with an improvised booster seat, the three bumpers put on the seat, which is actually good storage and quite comfortable.
Here is a pic of the driver's view while surfing:


It was almost effortless and it got up to surf speed in seconds. We were running at 8-9mph, slowed down about 1-2 miles than what we normally ride.

I didn't get any shots of me surfing it, but I did manage shots of Trayson surfing it.
Here are the shots at a couple different deployment lengths,
2"

2.5"

3"


The pocket seemed a little longer and to have more push at 2.5". That is what I chose to ride on most of the time, although I did play with it between 2 and 3". I did also make an attempt at goofy and at riding the goofy side regular, but that was at the end of my runs and I was feeling fatigued so it didn't go quite as well. Trayson did ride goofy pretty well though.
Trayson was riding the Caption today instead of his regular Koal Illuminati, because it suffered a cracked tail after falling out of the board rack on take off. Always remember to check your straps before you leave the dock.


So on to my ride review.
I rode both the Ronix Caption and my Wavezone boost skim on it. The wave had a ton of push, I feel more so than when the boat was running listed. The wave was extremely clean and very long. For me, the rideable pocket went from the platform back about 15 feet off the back of the boat. This is an improvement from our normal 6-8 feet we normally ride. For Trayson he got as far back as around 20 feet, but he is lighter (Trasyon =170lbs, Me=230lbs).
You could play around between the flats and the crest, almost to the point of crossing to the other side without worrying about losing push or being washed out the back. As I said, it had crazy stupid push and you had to bite it to fall and not worry about falling out.

I was able to ride the Caption just fine and carve around a lot in the whole pocket. At one point I rode a floater for about 5-10 seconds at the crest of the wave without it pushing me back.
With the larger pocket you are able to start in the back and build up good speed in an attempt for airs. I haven't managed that yet, but am still working on it. I got about half way through a walk around where my feet were next to each other and I was basically riding like I was standing on a 12"x12" square without losing any momentum before I lost my balance.

On the Wavezone I was able to freeride it with a little less effort than before, but I'm still way above it's weight limit. Riding such a small board being a bigger guy is a good achievement on a direct drive wake. While line riding I was able to pull a front side and back side 180 on it and did a couple 90 degree stalls on the lip, I think the term for that is a lip slide. It was a lot more fun to ride on this setup than it was the listed one. I have also dropped 14lbs of body weight and lost the soaking wetsuit weight since last time I was out on it, so around 20lbs less weight helps a bit.

Overall the wake was clean, had tons of push, and a long pocket. There is a bit of a rooster tail coming off of the blade that is deployed, but not so big it affects riding. This is an awesome wake and I actually prefer it hands down over the listed wake of the V-Drives I have ridden. Those being a 1997 Tige Pre2100V and a slammed 2012 Wakesetter VLX. It has a much longer pocket than those and about the same amount of push. This modification on the direct drive Supra is a huge win in both rideability and driveability. Is it as good as a slammed and tuned VLX with surfgate or a G25 with NSS with both of them running twice the weight? No. But for the price tag being a fraction of the cost with some elbow grease and creativity it is well worth the ride.

Here is a video I shot of one of Trayson's last sessions of the day
Old     (Tnsatbhs)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 6:09 PM Reply   
How did you like the Byerly Buzz? I got one of those in the off season, but haven't been able to ride it yet.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 6:17 PM Reply   
I liked it. I didn't really get to give it a good test run though because of the poor wake the Moomba was putting out. It seemed stable and responded well, but didn't seem as fast as the Hazard. Once again that was probably wake related. I really wish I was able to ride the Buzz on a better wake and take it through its paces. I feel it would be a really fun board. The other two riders liked it as well. I think I'm going to post a thread reviewing all the boards I rode as well.
Old     (Tnsatbhs)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-18-2014, 6:22 PM Reply   
Sounds good. Looking forward to that!
Old     (phl)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-18-2014, 6:35 PM Reply   
H20king was is the sac setup i have a 226 and try to find the best set up
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-19-2014, 6:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by phl View Post
H20king was is the sac setup i have a 226 and try to find the best set up
That wave was just 150LBS counter weight center tank full and custom 226 surf sack full 300 Lbs in people weight and trim at 25%. If you have a 2014 226 wakemakers has custom 226 sacks in stock if they have not all sold yet
Old     (AlbertaSurfer)      Join Date: May 2014       05-18-2014, 7:25 PM Reply   
Cool reviews. It would be fun to be able to ride each boat one after the other for comparison. Riding boats weeks apart can be tough to compare. Nice work, sounds like you had a great time!

Some constructive criticism? Wakes don't push. I know everyone says push, but the wake isn't pushing you through the water. The wake is rising upward, and you surf down the upward rushing water. The faster, cleaner, bigger the upward moving face, the faster you can surf. It may feel like push, but it's actually lift. Physics wise, if the wake was pushing the rider, than any boat, no matter the size, would 'push' a rider at the same rate, if going the same speed.

Just some useless info for you. Sorry, I'm a surf fanatic. I've been surfing for 20 years. Wakesurfing gets bigger and bigger every year, and as an Ocean surfer, I'm just trying to help people understand what's happening back there.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-18-2014, 9:52 PM Reply   
Push has become the "accepted" description for how much "lift" or "power" a wave has. People all understand what is meant by the term and most boat manufacturers are now using it, so is there really a point to try to correct people and get them to use a different word?

Kind of like the term "pop" is used to describe wakes and wakeboards and how wakeboards react to wakes. There are probably much better terms physicists would use, but the accepted term is pop.

I just don't see the harm in the term. Isn't an "upward push" essentially the same as "lift" anyways?
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-18-2014, 10:41 PM Reply   
I'm with Scotty Mo on this. I completely understand your point, L W. It's a generally accepted term at this point. It is however, inaccurate. If the knowledgable majority knows that the correct term is "lift", why can't we just call it what it is? Seriously? Why? I can't think of any real good reason other than sloth. We, as a community, are too lazy to correct simple inaccuracies? I'm sorry. I ain't buying it. It's called lift.

Then again, maybe I shouldn't get so fired up about such small things.

Nah, complacentcy breeds stagnation. I'm calling it lift from now on. I think everyone else should call it whatever they want, even if it is wrong. Just know you're wrong.

Back at the thread,

Thanks for the reviews, phathom. I've yet to get out on any of the new surf systems yet. Good to here some honest, unbiased opinions. No pics though?

Last edited by fence_sence; 05-18-2014 at 10:46 PM.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-19-2014, 5:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post
I'm with Scotty Mo on this. I completely understand your point, L W. It's a generally accepted term at this point. It is however, inaccurate. If the knowledgable majority knows that the correct term is "lift", why can't we just call it what it is? Seriously? Why? I can't think of any real good reason other than sloth. We, as a community, are too lazy to correct simple inaccuracies? I'm sorry. I ain't buying it. It's called lift.

Then again, maybe I shouldn't get so fired up about such small things.

Nah, complacentcy breeds stagnation. I'm calling it lift from now on. I think everyone else should call it whatever they want, even if it is wrong. Just know you're wrong.

Back at the thread,

Thanks for the reviews, phathom. I've yet to get out on any of the new surf systems yet. Good to here some honest, unbiased opinions. No pics though?
As long as we are making corrections…… Hear is what you do with your ears. Here is where you are. Nobody's perfect.
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-19-2014, 7:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
As long as we are making corrections…… Hear is what you do with your ears. Here is where you are. Nobody's perfect.
D'oh! I'm usually pretty anal about that too.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-19-2014, 1:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post

Thanks for the reviews, phathom. I've yet to get out on any of the new surf systems yet. Good to here some honest, unbiased opinions. No pics though?
Goofy on the Moomba:


Effortless regular on the Malibu:


Plenty of "push" deep into the rear of the pocket:


Powerful and confidence inspiring so that I got to play:


Those Malibu Asses...


Can I haz one please???


The water wasn't smooth enough for me to be confident on the G25. and I made sure he dialed the wake DOWN for me...






I wasn't feeling confident on the wakeboard at all. First wakeboard ride in 6 months after surfing all day long on an unfamilar boat in not smooth water. So I wasn't getting any pop at all. But still fun.

I took some videos of Phathom during the day. I'll let him figure out which video was from which boat and post them up... I just dumped them all on Youtube raw and called it good.

Fun day for sure. I wish we coulda rode the Supra Swell. I'll try and get on one of those this year though...
Old     (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-19-2014, 2:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson View Post
Goofy on the Moomba:





Effortless regular on the Malibu:





Plenty of "push" deep into the rear of the pocket:





Powerful and confidence inspiring so that I got to play:





Those Malibu Asses...





Can I haz one please???





The water wasn't smooth enough for me to be confident on the G25. and I made sure he dialed the wake DOWN for me...













I wasn't feeling confident on the wakeboard at all. First wakeboard ride in 6 months after surfing all day long on an unfamilar boat in not smooth water. So I wasn't getting any pop at all. But still fun.



I took some videos of Phathom during the day. I'll let him figure out which video was from which boat and post them up... I just dumped them all on Youtube raw and called it good.



Fun day for sure. I wish we coulda rode the Supra Swell. I'll try and get on one of those this year though...

That Moomba need more ballast!!! I don't even see a wave there. I know the Mojo can do so much more.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-19-2014, 3:00 AM Reply   
The Moomba and VLX may be a semi-fair comparison, being similar in size, but comparing the VLX to the G25 and saying the G25 is the best surf system isn't fair at all. The 247 LSV with surfgate would have been a more equal comparison (well, not on price of course), or the new 23 LSV - both which are better surf boats over the VLX.
Old     (AlbertaSurfer)      Join Date: May 2014       05-19-2014, 5:41 AM Reply   
L W

Sorry, I'm not meaning to chastise. It's just one of those little nit picks. Same with a 'goofy and regular' wake. Surfing has rights and lefts, which are ridden either frontside or backside depending on if you are natural or goofy footed. My boat has a right and a left. The port side is Chesterman, a mushy beachbreak in British Columbia, and the starboard side is Pipeline, named after a thundering left in Hawaii. Why? Because it's fun to say, "hey, I heard Pipe is firing this morning, let's go there!"

Everyone can do whatever they want in the end, I'm just making a feeble attempt to make wake surfing less kooky.
Old     (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-19-2014, 6:11 AM Reply   
The boat is weighted down and moves forward pushing the water down under the boat. Susequently the water rises or lifts behind the boat which creates momentum forward toward the boat. Our language evolves as words take on new meaning. So as I see it Push = forward momentum plus lift.

Just my opinion.
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-19-2014, 7:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejoeco View Post
The boat is weighted down and moves forward pushing the water down under the boat. Susequently the water rises or lifts behind the boat which creates momentum forward toward the boat. Our language evolves as words take on new meaning. So as I see it Push = forward momentum plus lift.

Just my opinion.
That's the best argument yet. I'm still not sold but, ya got me thinking.
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-19-2014, 7:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertaSurfer View Post
L W

Sorry, I'm not meaning to chastise. It's just one of those little nit picks. Same with a 'goofy and regular' wake. Surfing has rights and lefts, which are ridden either frontside or backside depending on if you are natural or goofy footed. My boat has a right and a left. The port side is Chesterman, a mushy beachbreak in British Columbia, and the starboard side is Pipeline, named after a thundering left in Hawaii. Why? Because it's fun to say, "hey, I heard Pipe is firing this morning, let's go there!"

Everyone can do whatever they want in the end, I'm just making a feeble attempt to make wake surfing less kooky.
x2. Again. I never say goofy or regular side. There was no such thing when I started. It's a boat. There's either port or starboard.
Old     (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       05-19-2014, 10:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post
x2. Again. I never say goofy or regular side. There was no such thing when I started. It's a boat. There's either port or starboard.
Goofy rider is a fun thing to say..... I will never stop calling them GOOFY!
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-19-2014, 1:20 PM Reply   
I'm pretty confident that the Malibu VLX did NOT have stock ballast. I'm pretty sure it had the piggyback system like our friend sam uses. I can't remember if it had extra ballast in the nose, but I'm pretty sure it did. I would guess that the VLX easily had 3k of ballast.

Also, the Malibu does have just as much if not more ability to custimize as the Nautique G did. think about it... The G is able to custimize based on how far our the NSS blades go and also via the wakeplate. Likewise, the Malibo can change the degree that the surfgates are diverting water, they can change their power wakeplate, AND they can change the setting on their wedge. So really, they have all the same ability to custimize but with the added wedge custimization also.

The driver of the Malibu knew his boat really well. And he had it dialed from the start. There wasn't any need to change it up, we just jumped on the wave and got giddy.

Of course the seating of a G25 is going to win over a smaller way less expensive Malibiu hands down. But that's not a fair comparison. And the 25' G is not a fair comparison to either boat. Also, the G25 for sure had upgraded ballast, they even had a 750 in the bow walkway...

Yes, the Moomba has factory plug and play bags. We added the flyhigh under seat bow sack that wraps around that's supposedly 600 to 700 pounds per what I found on wakemakers.

It would be a better comparison to have had the Moomba with comperable ballast to the Malibu.



This summer, I plan to get out on a Mojo that's completely dialed in with the FLOW system and running LOTS of ballast. I do look forward to that. I've ridden a couple of well dialed in Moombas listed and they produce a much better surf wave than my DD can, that's for certain.

And for the record, I was able to freeride the Moomba Mojo with Flow fine. It was just effortless on the Malibu and the G25.


And my board is actually a 2012 Ronix Koal Illuminati 5'0" it's not the Koal fish.
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-19-2014, 3:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejoeco View Post
Goofy rider is a fun thing to say..... I will never stop calling them GOOFY!
Riders? Always.

Wakes? Never.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-19-2014, 7:44 AM Reply   
Phantom,

Do moomba's these days have hard tanks under the floor? If so did the mondo only have dual rear hard tanks full at 400-500 pounds?
Old     (Jwredmon101)      Join Date: May 2014       05-19-2014, 8:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
Phantom,

Do moomba's these days have hard tanks under the floor? If so did the mondo only have dual rear hard tanks full at 400-500 pounds?
The Mondo he rode had 2 400 bags in the rear lockers and a 500 hard tank in the center ... stock is 1300 pounds. Mondo has such a high free board and it needs alot of weight to sink it. 1300 doesn't cut it. Rode in one with 3k ... it was a Nice surf wake. the Wakeboard wave looked good but I did not get to ride it so I have no opinion there.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-19-2014, 10:33 AM Reply   
Ok, so back on track from the science and vocabulary lessons. Call it what you will, we know what you're referring to. I also liked that "push = forward momentum + lift". Seems legit.

So about the fairness of the Surf gate vs the NSS.
The surf gate switched really fast, it also seemed to throw a steeper wave that wrapped around the back more, even on a 4' shorter boat.
The reason I said I think the NSS is the superior surf system, is because it’s not just about switching sides or getting the wave to wrap around you. It lets you tune and shape the wake, not just switch sides and lengthen the pocket as the surf gate does.
With the NSS, you are able to make adjustments and actually make the wave exactly what the rider is looking for. If they need more ramp for skim style, you adjust it and they have it. If they want a steeper, traditional wave, you adjust it on the fly and they have it.
The wave wasn't as big or wrapped around as much as the surf gate vlx, but it was more customizable. This surprised me because it was a bigger boat, with more ballast, and more people. I liked it more because it seemed more refined. Trayson, who rode all three boats with me actually preferred the surf gate wave on the Malibu over the NSS.

I didn't ride the supra with the swell on it, but from what I hear, a fair apples to apples would be Supra Swell vs Nautique NSS and Malibu Surfgate vs Moomba Flow, with the flow being a manual version to surf gates automatic.

Speaking of the Moomba Flow, I am glad to hear it works a lot better with more weight. It seemed like it had a lot of potential, but the boat wasn't sunk as much as it should have been. I thought at first that they were 750s in the lockers, 400s, really? For wakeboarding that's great, but not much for a boat allegedly made for surfing. The lockers in the back were really short as well. I’m not sure they would be able to fit 750s, you might have to double stack 400s.
I would really like to give it another shot with a properly weight and dialed in boat.

Otherwise as far as build and design is concerned, not related to surfing on the Moomba.
The seats were very firm and not plush at all. They felt hard and not too comfortable. The bimini is low and shoots out over the rear of the boat. Shade on the rear is nice, but comes at a price. The rope kept on getting caught on the bimini. I can see if used regularly while wakeboarding, you are either going to have a lot of premature failure on the rope or on the bimini itself. The rope can get caught off the edges and may trip up the rider as well when this happens. This was not designed well at all.
Finally, when we first got in. The glovebox was open and I threw my phone in there to keep it dry. When I tried to open the glovebox to get it out and take some pictures, the glovebox knob/handle came off, out of the glove box. I put it back and tried to open it up another 3-4 times. Each time, the knob would pop out of it’s socket. I ended up having to put it in and pull down at a very sharp angle to get enough leverage to open the glovebox.
These may be minor issues that can be worked around or corrected, such as not using the bimini while someone is riding or getting one aftermarket. You could use a better adhesive on, or replace the glovebox handle, and accepting that you have firm seats. But if you’re spending the money on a new boat, you shouldn't have to work around things that should just work.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-19-2014, 2:27 PM Reply   
The driver of the Malibu told me that they were running 3200lbs total. There were no exposed sacks, so they would have been upgraded under seat ballasts.
The driver of the G25, told me they were running 3500lbs plus the 750 in the walk way.
The driver of the Malibu really did know it well and was making a sales pitch to the other guys on board who were boat shopping. From what he was saying from the start, "All surf gate does is allow you to switch side to side quickly and clean up the wake" From the beeps happening when switching, it seemed like it was an all or nothing switch. If you can change the degrees and slowly adjust it to modify the wake, that would be interesting to see. If you can do that, I'm not sure why it wasn't demonstrated as the first rider was riding skim style and rather than adjust the wake to be more of a skim style wake, he threw him another board that was surf style.

I would definitely agree that the Moomba with more weight would be a more fair comparison and probably more fun to ride.

Technically you are right about the naming of the board, it is the Koal Illuminati edition. Currently there are 3 lines of Koals, power tail, thruster, and fish. Fish being indicative to the style of the tail looking like a fish tail. They may have dropped the "fish" name, but they definitely elude to it with a fish on the board and it is the same Koal line and the same style as their fish style.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps33cb29ef.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps0c90ccc0.jpg
I believe a more accurate title would be how they released it in 2013, The Ronix Koal Fish Illuminati edition
http://www.evo.com/outlet/wakesurf-b...oard-blem.aspx

Either way it is an awesome board of the Koal family that was for sure the favorite board of the day across all the boats. I like riding it and almost asked for it a few times, but kept changing up to different demo boards to try out since I know I can ride it any time I go out with you.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-19-2014, 2:46 PM Reply   
Here is a comment from one of the guys on the Moomba board that has the flow system on his Mojo...

Quote:
Trayson I'm sorry the Flow let you down, what really let you down was AWS.

I asked them a couple times if they wanted my Mojo there with a Flow thats really weighted. They never said yes so we made other plans on Saturday.

Mojo with the Flow will throw a huge wave with so much push you won't be able to get off your back leg, but your right its not stock at all.

I can't speak on AWS and how they promote the products they sell, I can only say I don't agree with it.

When you get the time your always welcome to come surf our Mojo, I will show you what that boat can do in the hands of someone who knows how to dial it in.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-19-2014, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathom View Post
From what he was saying from the start, "All surf gate does is allow you to switch side to side quickly and clean up the wake" From the beeps happening when switching, it seemed like it was an all or nothing switch. If you can change the degrees and slowly adjust it to modify the wake, that would be interesting to see. If you can do that, I'm not sure why it wasn't demonstrated as the first rider was riding skim style and rather than adjust the wake to be more of a skim style wake, he threw him another board that was surf style.
So I guess Malibu has the gate done as an on/off for each side. They could have have infinite adjustability but chose not to.

I found this on a thread:

Quote:
I don't think the gate adjustability feature is a big deal. First, I think a big surf gate wake is easier to ride for beginners than a leaned wake. Second, like you said, most people want the biggest wake they can get out of whatever ballast they have full. Third, on Malibu's with a power wedge, the wake is adjustable. Having two independent adjustments that change the size of the wake probably seemed like overkill to Malibu.
Another difference is that the NSS tabs are sticking out from BOTH the side and bottom of the corner of the hull as the Surfgate is obviously just on the side. However, Malibu does have the wedge that does have adjustability, so that's something.

I was also incorrect when I said that the Malibu would have had a wakeplate. They have wedges, not wakeplates (and not both).

In some ways, I don't care about NSS as much. Sure, I've ridden NSS twice (once last year), but only at Demo days and only on boats that I'll never be able to justify having. But it's fun regardless.
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       05-19-2014, 3:36 PM Reply   
Sounds like AWS was trying to sell Malibu instead of Moomba if they had that much more weight in the VLX vs the Mojo. Everyone knows that since the Mojo is such a deep and big boat that it will need more weight to really get the best wave, the fact that AWS didn't put anything but the small stock bags in the rear of the boat just astounds me especially if they were adding weight on the other boats they had there. If you put a VLX and the Mojo beside eachother you will see that it's a lot easier to sink the smaller VLX (and with 3K ballast they surely did). Just my $.02, I definitely wouldn't be posting reviews of a boat and surf system that obviously wasn't represented in the best way by the dealer, or purposely represented poorly to move other boats (maybe they were holdover Malibus?). I think you should take that guy up on the Moomba forum with the dialed-in Mojo and then give us your "unbiased review"
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-19-2014, 3:52 PM Reply   
Well, I believe Phathom meant "unbiased" as not having a skin in the game. However, you are very correct, that it's most certainly biased in the setup of boats we got to try.
Old     (DustyL)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-19-2014, 5:25 PM Reply   
Sounds like that Mondo wasn't set up quite correctly... Were you deploying the flow system properly?

My setup:
600lb. rear bags
500lb. front tank
1700lbs. total
Flow: Stage 3
Wakeplate: 1/2 to fully deployed
Speed: 9.8-10.2 mph

I'll be getting 1,100 pound bags this week. The boat can handle a lot of weight for a 20'. Photos are with the setup above and 4 people. I'll have more photos when I get the new weight setup. Take up that Mondo demo!

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       05-19-2014, 5:42 PM Reply   
I wish I could have gone to this event, but had to take a last minute trip out of town. I have heard that the Mojo likes weight on top of the FLOW. The Supra SWELL system is really the same. It will create a nice clean wave with stock ballast, but that wave just gains more and more mass as you add weight. We went out a couple times on the SC with a lot of people and weight and it was awesome. We went out other times and it was still nice, but I was so stoked on those days we were loaded. Trying to duplicate that with ballast/lead weight for the days we don't have the human ballast factor next time out.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-20-2014, 8:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
I wish I could have gone to this event, but had to take a last minute trip out of town. I have heard that the Mojo likes weight on top of the FLOW. The Supra SWELL system is really the same. It will create a nice clean wave with stock ballast, but that wave just gains more and more mass as you add weight. We went out a couple times on the SC with a lot of people and weight and it was awesome. We went out other times and it was still nice, but I was so stoked on those days we were loaded. Trying to duplicate that with ballast/lead weight for the days we don't have the human ballast factor next time out.
So, when are we going out????
Old     (phl)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-19-2014, 6:07 PM Reply   
I think i should not underestimate the counterweight :P and non got a 2013 with sotck ballast
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-19-2014, 6:36 PM Reply   
OK for your boat you need to fill all factory ballast then add an 1100 sack to the rear locker and a 580 sack under the side seat and trim at about 30% speed about 11.3 mph give it a try im sure you will be happy. On the 2014's they did away with the hard tanks and went to enzo style sacks. All I had to do was swap out the factory sack for the custom wakemakers 226 surf sack
Old     (phl)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-20-2014, 7:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
OK for your boat you need to fill all factory ballast then add an 1100 sack to the rear locker and a 580 sack under the side seat and trim at about 30% speed about 11.3 mph give it a try im sure you will be happy. On the 2014's they did away with the hard tanks and went to enzo style sacks. All I had to do was swap out the factory sack for the custom wakemakers 226 surf sack

That was my plan i buy 2 x 1100lbs and i got 4 x 400lbs so ill try like u said thanks
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-20-2014, 12:37 AM Reply   
Unbiased means by me. My unbiased opinion. I do not own any of these brands of boats and have no preference on brand name or reputation, just how well they perform. It did seem that there was a biased setup favoring Nautique and Malibu boats. The driver of the Moomba Mondo we had wasn't the most experienced either and we were typically being pulled at 12mph, which we thought was a little fast. The wake seemed to wash out when we dropped much lower though.

Once again, I would love to try out the Flow on a properly weighted Mondo or Mojo. I don't feel it was a fair test there with how it was setup.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-20-2014, 9:00 AM Reply   
^This. I'm good human ballast
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       05-21-2014, 7:07 AM Reply   
Trayson and Suf Addict - I will get you guys out on the SC. Would be good to meet you guys too. We actually plan on hitting the Columbia a bit more this year and will be hanging out at that sand bar west of Lemon/Government Island. Waiting for the weather to warm up a bit and the current to calm down before we start doing the Columbia. Will be downtown on the Willy until then.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-21-2014, 8:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
Trayson and Suf Addict - I will get you guys out on the SC. Would be good to meet you guys too. We actually plan on hitting the Columbia a bit more this year and will be hanging out at that sand bar west of Lemon/Government Island. Waiting for the weather to warm up a bit and the current to calm down before we start doing the Columbia. Will be downtown on the Willy until then.
Good deal. Our friend Vince will also be downtown on the Willy. He has a slip now right by Newport Bay restaurant. He's in a red/white Tige.

I'm thinking of dragging my Supra out Friday night to watch the fireworks and launching at Cathedral.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-21-2014, 8:14 AM Reply   
there was a good sampling at The Southern Surfest, of the boats that had a surf system were; Malibu MXZ24, Supra SA 450, Momba Mojo, Axis T22, and a G23, the non system listers were; Centurion FX244, MB Sports B52 23V, and an 08 Tige 22ve, of the 30 riders I don't believe any post on WW, I had to drive all day both days
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       05-21-2014, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
there was a good sampling at The Southern Surfest, of the boats that had a surf system were; Malibu MXZ24, Supra SA 450, Momba Mojo, Axis T22, and a G23, the non system listers were; Centurion FX244, MB Sports B52 23V, and an 08 Tige 22ve, of the 30 riders I don't believe any post on WW, I had to drive all day both days
Damn, I wish I was one of the 30. That would be a fun day!
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-21-2014, 8:29 AM Reply   
it was actually 2 days and if you wanted, a few came on Friday and did clinics with pros (a little extra$$)

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