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Old    andrewsarafa            07-10-2013, 5:04 PM Reply   
So what do you think would have the best wake? An Axis A20, Nautique 200, Malibu Wakesetter VTX, Mastercraft X2, and any 20 footers you guys can think of. I plan on skiing a little bit, mostly wakeboarding, and surfing.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-10-2013, 5:15 PM Reply   
Isn't there also a 20' MXZ now? I would probably take a VTX or MXZ20 over the mastercraft or nautique if budget isn't much of an issue. I would also take the VTX or MXZ20 over the RZR probably in a similar price range. If budget is a concern I would look at the A20, R20 and Moomba Outback V. I am not sure which one of those 3 I would buy. Initial thought would be A20 but I am sure the R20 would be right there. There is almost zero talk about the newer outback V but from what I have heard it is a great crossover surf, wake and ski boat.

I think I would first decide if you want to spend in the 70k+ range or in the 50k range. I would assume the A20 and MXZ20 are very similar boats in size and running surface. I would expect them as well as the VTX to perform almost identically.

Overall I think all those boats are great boats and you can't really go wrong with any of them. Go look at them all, drive them all, spend time with the dealers and make the decision that you are most comfortable with.
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-10-2013, 6:22 PM Reply   
WE have a RZR and enjoy it. They are alot of nice boats in the 20 foot segment and you can't go wrong with most. Alot comes down to budget. R20, Outback V, and maybe the A20 can be had at or below 50K lightly optioned. RZR can be had mid-high 50's. Nautique, VTX, MXZ are gonna be 60K to over 70K.

Comes down to what options are important and what you want to spend. The 50K boats put out just as good of wake as the 70K boats in this segment. IMO
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       07-10-2013, 7:31 PM Reply   
I just went through this decision and switched from Malibu to Matercraft X2. I had previously owned a 2011 vlx and 2012 lsv. We wanted a smaller boat for storage reasons and looked at the VTX, 200 sport, and the x2. We don't have a tige dealer here and none of the malibu dealers around here have much interest in ordering a 20mxz.

200 sport will be about 10k higher than the x2 and vtx on average. It was too shallow and a little too cramped compared to the others. The lack of snap out carpet was a deal breaker. Great ski wake. Electronics (Linc) is by Murphy is has proven to be a rock solid system.

Vtx is a good performer with the wedge and surf gate. Lots of cockpit room, but bow is smaller than the x2. Quad ballast tanks are available as well. Handling is crazy good. G3 tower is rock solid and looks good. Seating position is too low, bag cooler sucks, Bimini is a pain in the butt to set up and take down, no storage in the bow at all. The new vtx dash and helm are ugly in my opinion (my opinion). Plus, it doesn't show the same information that the analog gauges used to show. For instance, you can't see volts, rpm, speed, oil pressure, temp, or even hour meter without going through multiple screens. Bad decision to remove the analog gauges by malibu in my opinion.

X2 was our decision because it has Zeo Off standard, more storage, better driver position, good amount of seating in both cockpit and bow, and we felt it has a much better overall fit and finish than the 2 previous Malibus we owned. There are available ballast upgrades as well. It does not handle as well as the vtx, but it has a smoother and quieter ride. It throws a good wakeboard wake and a decent surf wake that can be improved with ballast or surf tabs. Very clean wake like the vtx, but has a longer ramp with with a little lip on top. Ski wake is not as good as vtx, but can be improved with adjustment plate (not a concern for me). The Murphy system seems to be easier to deal with and less buggy than the Medallion systems we have had on the previous Malibus. Bimini is really easy to put up and take down.

Good luck on the search. Test them all and find the one that checks the most boxes for you and NOT the people on the forum....

Last edited by Bamabonners; 07-10-2013 at 7:37 PM.
Old    andrewsarafa            07-10-2013, 8:02 PM Reply   
How much are you guys paying monthly for your new boat?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-10-2013, 8:16 PM Reply   
We have an rzr and I love the thing. I'll post pics later but the surf system plus a 650lb bow sack results in a wakeboard wake that will scare your kids. Surfs so easy with just stock surf ballast. Does have some negatives though, porpoises a bit if your taps isn't dialed, narrow beam is narrow.... Also finicky side to side. Have heard from others the wake is favored over the x2, mybrother says its like a meaner 210 wake. But don't have a first hand comparison myself. I would say that or a20/20mxz/r20 would be your best choices for the range
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-10-2013, 8:19 PM Reply   
How do you mean? As the loan payment? Operating cost? I guess thats an odd question. Payment is going to depend on what you finance, for how long, interest rate, and down payment. Operating cost varies alot too. Insurance, gas, maintenance..etc.

As an example 50K with little down at a decent interest rate will put you just north of $400 a month. Thats on a 15 year loan(YUCK!!) We just burned 50 gallons of gas in 3 days at an average of $3.50 a gallon, so you can easily spent another $400 plus monthly on gas and stuff.

Like they say..If you have to ask....you can't afford it!! LOL
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       07-10-2013, 8:34 PM Reply   
Lets please not make this a financial discussion. That has been covered multiple times. Stick to original topic.
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-10-2013, 8:46 PM Reply   
Umm if you mean my post it was answering the question of the OP 2 post above mine...

How much are you guys paying monthly for your new boat?"

So we are only allowed to answer the original post and never to recover material?? There goes Wakeworld!!!
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       07-11-2013, 5:24 AM Reply   
No, I was just saying that question has been beat to death on this forum and it always derails the topic. Don't be so touchy.
Old     (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       07-11-2013, 3:25 PM Reply   
I would just add the Tige RZR to your search. You can't go wrong with any of the boats in your list. Demo as many as you can see what you like and what you don't then pick based on what you like, dealer, and price.
Old     (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-11-2013, 5:23 PM Reply   
2014 Moomba Mondo gets my vote on this one. My demo went way beyond my expectations.
Old     (Wakesounds)      Join Date: May 2011       07-11-2013, 5:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsupralaunch View Post
2014 Moomba Mondo gets my vote on this one. My demo went way beyond my expectations.
Chris, could you explain a bit more? What did you like about the boat? What was the surf wave/board wake like and what extra ballast is needed?
Old     (rawB)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-30-2013, 6:24 AM Reply   
Does the Tige R20 have the convex vx? How old of a nautique can you have the NSS installed on?
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-30-2013, 6:59 AM Reply   
R20 can have the VX yes, its an option. Its an option on all Tige boats. I think NSS can go back to 2012 and you have to have the link dash to have it. Also only goes on a few of the boats, not all according to the dealer we talked to(Marine max).
Old     (g-mantrix)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-31-2015, 11:58 AM Reply   
Reviving this thread
Im in a similar situation having previously owned a pickle fork X2 which was stolen, now to decide on a 20' boat from 2011 and newer
Narrowing my choices to
X2
RZR or R20
Mondo (have not demoed as yet) do intend to
Keen to here the ops decision
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-31-2015, 12:42 PM Reply   
Axis A20 and Malibu VTX are excellent 20 footers depending on your price range.
Old     (g-mantrix)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-31-2015, 2:04 PM Reply   
Price at this point isn't a consideration, not buying new but from 2011 or newer
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-31-2015, 9:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-mantrix View Post
Price at this point isn't a consideration, not buying new but from 2011 or newer

I'd put both on the shopping list.
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       01-31-2015, 2:59 PM Reply   
I'd throw the X20 in the mix. Good boat from what I understand but very few available used since you indicate you're not buying new.

Is the 20' self imposed or you're limited by local lake rules? There are a number of good to great 21' boats as well.
Old     (g-mantrix)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-31-2015, 5:07 PM Reply   
20' is self imposed but a storage limitation to some degree. Yeah the new X20 looks awesome but not any used atm
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-02-2015, 6:05 AM Reply   
I was so excited about the Mondo when it was coming out but to me the boat itself fell short of my bloated expectations and ended up getting an X2. I'm by no means knocking moomba as they have got to be the most improved manufacturer over the last few years but to me the quality feel just isn't there compared to MC or Malibu. I've ridden in Tom's A20 and to be honest I was pleasantly surprised on how roomy it felt and it seemed like well built boat especially considering you can pretty much buy an A20 new for the price of some of those other boats 3-4 year old used price.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-02-2015, 6:29 AM Reply   
any day now you should be hearing from the AXIS guy with an A20. He got a steal not a deal...... his boat even came with a depth finder. Should be funny.
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-02-2015, 7:15 AM Reply   
g-mantrix - what is your intended use? OP was a mix of skiing, wake boarding, and surfing, but you revived an old thread. Skiing is a tough combination with the other two sports. Many of the newer boats are trending towards heavier hulls which make the boats less suited for all sports... ski boats and wakeboard boats keep getting further apart.

Put some research into that storage limitation. If you can manage a 21' or 21'6" boat, there are probably half a dozen other models that come into play. The more options you have, the more likely you'll find what you want and/or the more negotiating leverage you'll have when making offers.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-02-2015, 9:58 PM Reply   
G
Like Orange mentioned upping to the 21ft range can really get you better all around boat at wake sports. Most of the newer 21ft's have fold away tongues and quick release platforms. The 20ft'rs are limited to performance on size alone.

However coming off an X2 is going to be really hard to beat in the 20ft range. What are some of your likes and dislikes about the boat? You're in a pretty unique situation having owned one of the most versatile 20ft boats on the market and now opening up that entire door again........so break down your view or some things you liked about your X2 and are a "must" and some things you may want to improve from your X2 and that will give us a better idea of where to send you looking and demoing

Last edited by xstarrider; 02-02-2015 at 10:00 PM.
Old     (g-mantrix)      Join Date: Jan 2014       02-03-2015, 1:47 AM Reply   
Ok likes of X2
Cabin and bow space
Ride thru chop
Styling (personal choice)
Storage space
Finish and quality
Comfortable seating
Rides high in the bow minimal spray into cabin
Nice rampy wakeboard wake and solid

Dislikes
Needed 1000kgs plus ballast for solid wake
Not easy transition from wake to surf

With a recent back injury, want a boat that is easy to set up for wake or surf, nit filling bags etc
I think the Tige fills this criteria from what I've seen
Concern with RZR is interior cabin space, with a couple of young boys plus a fre friends would be my regular crew, about 7 or 8 peeps
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       02-04-2015, 5:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-mantrix View Post
Ok likes of X2
Cabin and bow space
Ride thru chop
Styling (personal choice)
Storage space
Finish and quality
Comfortable seating
Rides high in the bow minimal spray into cabin
Nice rampy wakeboard wake and solid

Dislikes
Needed 1000kgs plus ballast for solid wake
Not easy transition from wake to surf

With a recent back injury, want a boat that is easy to set up for wake or surf, nit filling bags etc
I think the Tige fills this criteria from what I've seen
Concern with RZR is interior cabin space, with a couple of young boys plus a fre friends would be my regular crew, about 7 or 8 peeps
X20 carries over all of the likes that you had on the X2, and fixes all of the dislikes. There is a chance you could find a Demo X20 out there..... I think you said you were looking for used. Not sure exactly what you have for a budget, but the X20 is not cheap compared to even the X2.
Old     (g-mantrix)      Join Date: Jan 2014       02-03-2015, 1:48 AM Reply   
Oh and to mention I am a pickle fork fan
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-03-2015, 3:15 AM Reply   
Yes rzr starts to get tight at 7/8 people but has a really good surf and wakeboard wake without too much effort, IMO
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-03-2015, 4:15 AM Reply   
Actually you could buy or make a wake shaper to transition from wake to surf on the X2. Took me about an hour to make one for 30 bucks. Not weighting the boat to one side and we can literally stop, change ropes, and surf.

Dude makes a solid looking product.

http://wake-shaper.com/
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-03-2015, 6:52 AM Reply   
Looks like some patent infringement lawsuits waiting to happen
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-03-2015, 7:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Looks like some patent infringement lawsuits waiting to happen
Possibly true, but it would be the manufacturer getting sued, not g-mantrix as a buyer. It might be worth the try if you like everything about your X2 except for the ease of setting up for wakesurfing.

The bad news from your list of likes/dislikes is it sounds like what you're looking for is very difficult to produce without spending tons of money. Small boats just don't want to produce great surf wakes, especially without a ton (literally) of weight. The newer systems like NSS, Surf Gate (or whatever Malibu calls theirs), and Gen2 are certainly an improvement. They still require a lot of ballast, however. As I understand them the big difference is you can center load the ballast and switch the surf wake from side to side more easily.

I'd go back to my earlier comment. With 7/8 people on board and a desire for a good surf wake, a 21' to 23' boat is going to be better than a 20' boat if you can figure out a storage solution... oh yeah, and write a check for $25-50K for the difference between what you can sell your X2 and what a low hour newish boat with the new systems will cost you (I don't know what year your X2 is).

On the other hand, spend maybe $500 combined to plumb 450# sacks into your X2 rear lockers and buy the wake shaper thing. The X2 can produce a decent surf wake and it sounds like you have a man crush on your X2 anyway. Worst case is you waste $500 and buy time for a few more used boats with the new systems to hit the market.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2015, 7:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
Possibly true, but it would be the manufacturer getting sued, not g-mantrix as a buyer. It might be worth the try if you like everything about your X2 except for the ease of setting up for wakesurfing.

The bad news from your list of likes/dislikes is it sounds like what you're looking for is very difficult to produce without spending tons of money. Small boats just don't want to produce great surf wakes, especially without a ton (literally) of weight. The newer systems like NSS, Surf Gate (or whatever Malibu calls theirs), and Gen2 are certainly an improvement. They still require a lot of ballast, however. As I understand them the big difference is you can center load the ballast and switch the surf wake from side to side more easily.

I'd go back to my earlier comment. With 7/8 people on board and a desire for a good surf wake, a 21' to 23' boat is going to be better than a 20' boat if you can figure out a storage solution... oh yeah, and write a check for $25-50K for the difference between what you can sell your X2 and what a low hour newish boat with the new systems will cost you (I don't know what year your X2 is).

On the other hand, spend maybe $500 combined to plumb 450# sacks into your X2 rear lockers and buy the wake shaper thing. The X2 can produce a decent surf wake and it sounds like you have a man crush on your X2 anyway. Worst case is you waste $500 and buy time for a few more used boats with the new systems to hit the market.
Only problem with that is his X2 was stolen and he doesn't have one any longer. Huge monkey wrench
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-03-2015, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Only problem with that is his X2 was stolen and he doesn't have one any longer. Huge monkey wrench
LOL. I'll admit there is a small flaw in my logic.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2015, 7:42 AM Reply   
With that it's really hard to discount the Tige RZR. The storage in there is much like the X2 in that it's plentiful. It's deep inside like the X2 and from my experience has almost identical space as an X2. It's just different. The RZR cockpit has little more room than. The X2 but the x2 bow has more room than the RZR's. The surf wake is better than the x2 and the wakebord wake is eightvtgwre w the x2. The RZR handles little better than the x2 as well empty, but when it's loaded up the boat tends to lean just a bit more in the ties compared to the x2 because of a bit deeper v

I can only speak for an A20 without surfgate and that boat wakeboarded great and surfed ok at best. Still falls into the you have to slam it with ballast category.

TheVTX is very similar to the RZR in space and bow. Meaning more cockpit and less bow compared to the X2. It's going to require more ballast than the RZR but not nearly the amount of the X2. The wedge is a nice factor for ease of setup and customization. Wakeboard wake is clean at all speeds and surfwake is just as good as an X2. The VTX provably drives the best out of em all very responsive and predictable excluding the Nautique 200v.


The Nautique 200v is more of a crossover boat and skis very very well. I would not even put this in the running. Surfs mediocre and wakeboards mediocre. Would toss that right out the window also because of its lack of space. Drives like a dream tho. It's more of a "skiers wakeboat"

Luxury wise I put the Tige and Malibu is similar categories going the RZR route. Coming off an X2 I think you would be severely disappointed with an R20. It's so bare and plain. When I demoed one it really didn't feel any step above my 2000 Xstar. However when you got in the RZR it was a cometely different ball game. I would put the RZR tops on the list maybe followed by the VTX with surfgate if you can get that new of a model.

Last edited by xstarrider; 02-03-2015 at 7:49 AM.
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-03-2015, 7:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
On the other hand, spend maybe $500 combined to plumb 450# sacks into your X2 rear lockers and buy the wake shaper thing. The X2 can produce a decent surf wake and it sounds like you have a man crush on your X2 anyway. Worst case is you waste $500 and buy time for a few more used boats with the new systems to hit the market.
I run 600 bags piggy backed on the factory hardtanks and a 650 ibs on top of the factory kgb for roughly 2500lbs. The surf wake with that setup and the wakeshaper is great for us. Is it going to blow a surf boat away.......nope but neither is any 20' boat. Never had a single person complain. Guy with wakeshaper also just came out with a completely collapsable model that fits in a carry bag. Super nice setup that takes roughly 30 seconds to pull out and change. Also the new model works for both reg and goofy so you can just switch the side you are using.
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-03-2015, 3:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
With that it's really hard to discount the Tige RZR. The storage in there is much like the X2 in that it's plentiful. It's deep inside like the X2 and from my experience has almost identical space as an X2. It's just different. The RZR cockpit has little more room than. The X2 but the x2 bow has more room than the RZR's. The surf wake is better than the x2 and the wakebord wake is eightvtgwre w the x2. The RZR handles little better than the x2 as well empty, but when it's loaded up the boat tends to lean just a bit more in the ties compared to the x2 because of a bit deeper v

I can only speak for an A20 without surfgate and that boat wakeboarded great and surfed ok at best. Still falls into the you have to slam it with ballast category.

TheVTX is very similar to the RZR in space and bow. Meaning more cockpit and less bow compared to the X2. It's going to require more ballast than the RZR but not nearly the amount of the X2. The wedge is a nice factor for ease of setup and customization. Wakeboard wake is clean at all speeds and surfwake is just as good as an X2. The VTX provably drives the best out of em all very responsive and predictable excluding the Nautique 200v.


The Nautique 200v is more of a crossover boat and skis very very well. I would not even put this in the running. Surfs mediocre and wakeboards mediocre. Would toss that right out the window also because of its lack of space. Drives like a dream tho. It's more of a "skiers wakeboat"

Luxury wise I put the Tige and Malibu is similar categories going the RZR route. Coming off an X2 I think you would be severely disappointed with an R20. It's so bare and plain. When I demoed one it really didn't feel any step above my 2000 Xstar. However when you got in the RZR it was a cometely different ball game. I would put the RZR tops on the list maybe followed by the VTX with surfgate if you can get that new of a model.

eightvtgwre??
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2015, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlex01 View Post
eightvtgwre??
Whoops.

On par would be the correct term. The wakeboard wake is ON Par with the X2.



Sorry bout that.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-06-2015, 7:51 AM Reply   
AXIS A 20 is the best boat on the market.....I'm surprised our buddy that raves aboat his deal hasn't joined us yet. He must be enjoying the glass and looking at his free depth finder...
Old     (skidaddy)      Join Date: May 2008       02-06-2015, 11:22 AM Reply   
X2 is hard to beat. Another big factor is the resale value. I am selling my 2008 X2 on Boat Trader right now, and the NADA retail value on it is not much less than I paid for it in 2008. I found the only way to improve was get a bigger boat. Almost kept it, particularly after I took pictures for the ad and checking out Wake Shaper.

Bias objection duly noted in advance.

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