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Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-26-2012, 2:15 PM Reply   
So I'm looking into getting a new vehicle. I'm gonna need something with at least 5000lbs towing capacity. The problem is that I do a lot of driving, probably about 800km per week. So it's not really ideal to have a big 5.4 or 5.7 litre truck. I know there are crossovers that get decent gas mileage and a good tow rating, but... I'm more of a truck guy. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions?
Old     (Fiveflat)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-26-2012, 2:18 PM Reply   
Oh boy, I can see this thread getting out of hand quickly. Anyrate, if I had it to do over again I would get the F150 with the Ecoboost.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-26-2012, 2:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveflat View Post
Oh boy, I can see this thread getting out of hand quickly. Anyrate, if I had it to do over again I would get the F150 with the Ecoboost.
+1 on both counts. Let truck wars begin!
Old     (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       09-26-2012, 2:30 PM Reply   
dodge cummins with programmer
Old     (petrie141)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-26-2012, 2:25 PM Reply   
^^ Agreed
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-26-2012, 2:32 PM Reply   
honestly dude this is gonna get ugly quick but if you are wanting a truck that gets as good a mileage as possible and will handle your higher mileage driving then IMO your only option is a DIESEL.... Duramax or Cummins with 3.55 or 3.73 gears.... 4x4 you should see 21-22 mpg unloaded cruising down the highway city would be 17ish.... 2wd will be slightly better by 1 or 2 mpgs.... I have seen some Cummins get 24mpg if 2wd single cab unloaded....


Also you gotta take what year you are wanting the newer the diesel the more environmental crap they put on the truck.... a diesel should last you well past 250,000 miles with regular maintenance.




I just went from an 07 Tundra 4.7 4x4 to 04 Ram 3500 with Cummins 4x4 and love it.... pulls the boat better and I get better gas mileage both unloaded and towing...........
Old     (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       09-26-2012, 2:37 PM Reply   
That emissions stuff will come off if you want it to I have 35s on my 08 cummins dually and get 21 or so unloaded... No emission stuff tho
Old     (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-26-2012, 2:44 PM Reply   
I have a 2011 Platinum F150 with the Ecoboost and really like it. I think the mileage could be better, but I do a lot of city driving and parking with the motor running. On most tanks, I can get around 18.8-19mpg. On trips, I can easily get 22mpg if not more if you keep it at 70 or less. It tows my boat with ease and I can still get about 14.5mpg @60mph while towing the boat.

I am approaching 30k miles on it and have not quite had it 10 months yet. I hate having really high mileage vehicles but I could see myself keeping this one for awhile.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-26-2012, 2:50 PM Reply   
This site is fun to look at: http://www.fuelly.com/car/
Select the vehicle you are looking for and see REAL mileage results. Ok, so maybe they aren't exact but at least there is data to back them up. So say you are looking at an F150, go click on the F150:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150
Then you can break it down and go look at the trucks in the list and see what engine and cab configuration they have. Look for trucks that have a bunch of fillups, like 10+ so you can get an idea of what the long term looks like. Total time killer but worth it. You can either wade through real raw data on that site or weed through the BS that is posted here...

Last edited by timmyb; 09-26-2012 at 2:53 PM.
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-26-2012, 2:52 PM Reply   
the ecoboosts are nice trucks but IMO.... its just a diesel engine running on gas that won't last as long as a tried and true cummins or duramax....


not trying to knock on the ecoboost just saying why not just get a diesel??? Unless you have no access to diesel or something


and yes I know gas costs less but the length of time a diesel lasts should negate most of that.
Old     (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-26-2012, 3:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
the ecoboosts are nice trucks but IMO.... its just a diesel engine running on gas that won't last as long as a tried and true cummins or duramax....


not trying to knock on the ecoboost just saying why not just get a diesel??? Unless you have no access to diesel or something


and yes I know gas costs less but the length of time a diesel lasts should negate most of that.
Because there is still no half ton diesel truck. The EB is a pretty good and promising compromise. It's hard to say that it won't last as long, simply because they haven't been around as long.
Old     (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-26-2012, 3:29 PM Reply   
Why not buy a less expensive car like a Cruse,Accord or Camry that gets 30-40mpg ?
Then take the savings and buy a used tow pig .
Old     (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-26-2012, 3:40 PM Reply   
We did what Mhunter is suggesting. Instead of buying an F150 back in 09, we bought a Chev Equinox, life time milage is 28.5mpg over 65000 miles. the difference in fuel between that and the F150 i wanted is about $6200-$6500 the last 3 years. The purchase price difference at the time was about $8K in favor of the knox, i ended up buying a 99 Powerstroke for towing duties for less than the difference in fuel between the knox and the F-150.

In guy logic, that's a free truck.

not trying to persuade, just showing a different scenario
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-26-2012, 3:25 PM Reply   
toureg or audi q7 diesels. that is what i want when i get money.

also jeep cherokee will have a diesel this coming year...
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       09-26-2012, 3:36 PM Reply   
"wny not just get a diesel" Well because going to a 3/4 ton rig with a diesel engine increases the price another 10-20 grand (new), and with price of diesel fuel being higher, you would have to tow a TON to ever even think about saving money.

And driving a superduty level truck on a daily basis kinda sucks.

I would go back to the original post: 5000lbs towing capacity is pretty low for boats - are you sure that's all you need? 'Cause if your boat weighs near that you need to be going up way higher.

Last edited by pprior; 09-26-2012 at 3:37 PM. Reason: typo
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-26-2012, 3:41 PM Reply   
Quick profile view shows he has an '01 XStar and is towing it with a Ford Ranger right now.
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       09-26-2012, 4:12 PM Reply   
Cummins all the way. I get 18-20 mpg with 37's unloaded. Just make sure the DPF and EGR stuff "falls off" on accident. Then get a H&S Mini Maxx with overdrive and you are good to go.
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-26-2012, 4:17 PM Reply   
Oh Boy. Whats the budget? In some cases 2 vehicles like suggested is going to be the best option.
Old     (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-26-2012, 5:08 PM Reply   
These threads always go downhill quick. To the OP, you need to figure out what YOU want. The info is out there.

Looks like the F150 ecoboost is the way to go for you. A diesel will always out tow, but you wont get any better mileage than with the ecoboost.
Old     (larry1167)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-26-2012, 5:35 PM Reply   
I believe the '01 X-Star is about 3,000 lbs. dry. My boat is a little lighter but not much and I tow with an '08 4Runner with the 4.0 litre. It's on a truck frame so you don't have to comprimise that. It gets 21-23 mph on the freeway and my wife drives it all over town and averages 17-18 mpg in hilly terrain. Might be a good choice if you go with one vehicle.

If you don't need 4WD, you can pick them up pretty cheap and if they weren't abused they will easily go 200k miles. Just make sure you get the 4.0 and not the 3.4 in the older ones.
Old     (larry1167)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-26-2012, 5:41 PM Reply   
Forgot to mention the tow rating for the 4Runners with the 4.0 is 5,000lbs. Been very impressed with it so far.
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-26-2012, 6:43 PM Reply   
Woah, that was a lot of responses very quickly.

Yeah I guess I forgot to mention my setup but it looks like a few of you caught on. I drive a 2006 Ford Ranger V6 3.0L and have a 2001 X-Star. My truck is too small, I know! I think the tow capacity is around 3800-3900lbs. I'm not sure what the gear ratio is, I assume that's in the owner's manual? Not that it matters I suppose. Anyways, I have a galvinized dual axle trailer. I'm assuming this weighs around 1500lbs or slightly more. And yes, the 01 X-Star weighs around 3100 lbs. So hence, I think I need around 5000lbs tow capacity. My truck gets about 15-16MPG in the city, and gets 21MPG on the highway. So ideally, I'd like to try and at least conserve those numbers if possible. My budget for purchasing another vehicle would be around $10k or so. I believe my truck having 137,000km (85,0000 miles) on it is probably worth around 5k-7k if I sold it.

Buying something cheap to just tow with, and then having another car is something I didn't think about. So I'll consider that! There were a lot of other vehicles mentioned on here that I'm not overly familiar with, so I'll have to look into those! But these are great suggestions, keep em coming. Much appreciated!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-26-2012, 5:14 PM Reply   
Here's your diesels on Fuelly...really love that site!
Dodge Ram 2500
http://www.fuelly.com/car/dodge/ram%202500/diesel%20l6
Ford F250
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-250...ty/diesel%20v8
Chevy 2500
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/...hd/diesel%20v8
Old    kx250frider617            09-26-2012, 5:15 PM Reply   
Any 1/2 ton truck will generally get 8mpg towing a wake boat and 15-20 on the highway. Diesel up to 07' will get 20mpg highway and 15 towing. 07'+ had a huge mpg decrease because of the emissions DPF crap. A family members 11' cummins 6.7 gets an average of 11mpg (ridiculous). The new ford 6.7 power stroke is supposedly getting back to 20mpg because it uses urea injection (needs to be refilled by owner).

These are all general observations and each brand might have models that don't fit in the category.

Best bet would buy a used Diesel. 03-06 cummins 5.9L, ford 7.3 or 6.0 (that has been bullet proofed), not too sure about chevy.
You can get the trucks in the $20k range, they have no emissions beside a CAT and they get relatively great MPG's all around. They will tow the boat with no struggle at all. I tow with a 02' ford 7.3 and a 03' dodge hemi. Both tow just fine but my 1/2 constantly shifts and on hills its forced to run super high rpm's to hold speed, the diesel just spools the turbo.

Downside to diesels are they suck to jump and and run around town doing errands, fuel is a few cents more expensive, they are loud.

I like to think that 1/2=TOWING the boat to the water, Diesel=just driving, only notice the boat in the mirrors.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-26-2012, 5:31 PM Reply   
What sucks is even the mid size trucks get terrible fuel economy. Most newer half tons probably get just as good or better then most tacoma's, S10's, Rangers, etc... How about a newer Toyota highlander. They had an option for a tow setup that came with some stuff to help cool the tranny and the tow rating is 5000#. You would definately be pushing the limits but they are suppose to get mid to high teens in teh city and 21 or 22 on the highway in teh V6 4WD config. They are pretty nice looking rigs. not too big, not too small, etc.. I am assuming they have a similar engine to a Lexus RX350. I had a freind that had one of those and towed a Natuique 206 with a tandem trailer over the pass in Washington. It wasn't great but actually did ok.
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-26-2012, 6:47 PM Reply   
Oh, and yes a 4WD is a must if the truck is going to be my primary vehicle (or only vehicle). Last winter was my first taste of driving a 2WD drive truck through the snow. Never again!!! Worst traction ever!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-26-2012, 7:01 PM Reply   
You don't need a diesel for that boat. Matching your current mpg numbers with a larger truck and with that budget is going to be really tough. You might be able to find an old 6-speed cummins in that range.
Old     (RWBVride)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-27-2012, 6:00 AM Reply   
04 Duramax with a programmer. 15mpg with boat behind me. 19.5 in town. 22.5 on the highway. I will never go back to a gasser again after how much money this truck has saved me. Good luck.
Old     (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-27-2012, 6:22 AM Reply   
add in the cost of insuring two vehicles plus registration and in my state inspections. then you have maintenance: oil changes, break downs, tires.
im not knocking the two vehicle thing but there are added cost
lets say you get cheap insurance for $300/year, registration $40?, inspection and emissions (PA) $50. your up to $390. lets say it gets 20mpg and you put 3000 miles on it thats 150gal of fuel at $4.00/gal you would spend $600 in fuel. $200 savings if you don't do any maint. or have any break downs.
Old     (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-03-2012, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nailem View Post
add in the cost of insuring two vehicles plus registration and in my state inspections. then you have maintenance: oil changes, break downs, tires.
im not knocking the two vehicle thing but there are added cost
lets say you get cheap insurance for $300/year, registration $40?, inspection and emissions (PA) $50. your up to $390. lets say it gets 20mpg and you put 3000 miles on it thats 150gal of fuel at $4.00/gal you would spend $600 in fuel. $200 savings if you don't do any maint. or have any break downs.
You forgot depreciation
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-03-2012, 4:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by srock View Post
You forgot depreciation
If you were talkng about 2 new/newer cars compared to 1 than it would make a bigger difference but 1 10-15k car vs 2 vehicles that total 10-15k I am not sure that holds true.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-27-2012, 7:07 AM Reply   
Sorry Rusty not seeing the logic in your post or math

Truck - pay cash, cheap insurance, your yearly fixed costs + fuel = 1000/yr

Car - payment that will be less than a truck, but you'll have a payment anyways so it's negligible, 40mpg, 40000mi a yr if you drive a good amount, that's $4000 gas plus 90/yr fixed costs + $1000 yr insurance for full coverage on new car. Yearly costs minus maintenance which you'll have to do to any vehicle = 6200 say.

If you want to get an ecoboost as your only car, payment, $1000 yr insurance for full coverage +/- (I'm 27, maybe rates are less for you old guys ha) then you figure your gas, 40k/yr+3k/yr, 43000/yr at 19 average = $9000 of gas + insurance = 10 grand. 3500-4000 savings a year depending on actual maintenance and insurance costs

Or say 10gs for a diesel, 30gs for a new loaded cruze, 40grand, or 36-40+ for an fx4 ecoboost? So if you need to take a loan for both, its the same amount for payments... Not to mention a diesel truck doesn't depreciate that much if you keep it nice, a 2000 7.3 Ford F250 will hold its value similar to a 2000 SAN... If you've got a garage, or live where the truck won't just rot from salt sitting in your driveway, it makes sense.

Last edited by wakebordr11; 09-27-2012 at 7:11 AM.
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-27-2012, 7:43 AM Reply   
Run the numbers with renting a truck as necessary. Star Truck Rental, U-Haul, and others rents out trucks cheaply. It may be a better deal in the long run.

Personally, I will likely replace my Excursion with a sedan and an old cargo van for a utility vehicle. I'll put less than 1.000 miles on the van a year with liability insurance only. The windowless cargo vans go cheap with 150k miles on them - minimal maintenance at minimal mileage.
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       09-27-2012, 9:19 AM Reply   
^and then factor in the hassle of having to pick the truck up and return it every time you use it.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-27-2012, 9:21 AM Reply   
Why would you include maintanance on both vehicles if you went that way? It isn't like they both are getting the mileage of just having one. If you put 15000 miles total you put 15000 miles total. You will still do a similar amount of oil changes, tires, brakes, etc... The only thing that makes it not make sense is the insurance and if you don't have a place to keep the extra rig. I vote what Karl is saying. go find a cheap E150/250 with a V8, a full size SUV(Expedition, Tahoe, etc.) or a half ton pickup. They are everywhere and you cna find a decent one for probably 5-7k. Then go find a cheap econobox for commuting. Honestly if you have 2 cheap cars I would just get a broad form liability. If you have 2 cars that are only worth 5k each it isn't really worth paying for collision and comprehensive insurance. Just my opinion though.
Old     (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-27-2012, 9:22 AM Reply   
40,000 miles a year thats a lot of driving. most people average 10k - 15k, 20k would be concidered a lot.
i guess as i started typeing i was thinking more of my situation of owning a truck and looking at getting a beater car to save money on fuel. i drive around 20k a year so even if i split it 50/50 that would be 10k on the beater. for me it would have to really good fuel milage to make it worth it. if i paid 3-4k for the car then $400 per year before i even ran it. divide 3k + 400/yr by lets say 5 years thats $1000/per year and again thats before i start the motor.
of course i agree with everyone else on the diesel. i drive a duramax and get 17mpg average and 15.5mpg while towing.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-27-2012, 9:49 AM Reply   
Pickup something like this

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3285177893.html

and then a commuter like this

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/3292019061.html
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-27-2012, 10:46 AM Reply   
Anything with a 7.3 turbo. If you want 4x4 make sure it's a 1 ton or otherwise has a Dana 60 under the front, TTB is weak and is a money pit.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-27-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
I misread his post, he does 500mi~ 800km a week, so thats 26k a year, I am not sure if 500 a week is total or just work, if its work then add in play you're doing easily 26-28.
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-27-2012, 2:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Because there is still no half ton diesel truck. The EB is a pretty good and promising compromise. It's hard to say that it won't last as long, simply because they haven't been around as long.
actually i can... the majority of gassers don't last as long as a diesel....
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-27-2012, 2:41 PM Reply   
whats the advantage of a 1/2 that gets the same or worse mileage than a 3/4 ton that gets good mileage?? Size is going to be close... ride will be stiffer in the 3/4 ton thats about the only difference
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-27-2012, 3:16 PM Reply   
I don't get why you say that Pete - I've got a saturn that has 300k, original exhaust, alternator, clutch... on it, Silverados I've had friends regularly experience 180-200k, and that's in the RUST BUCKET NYS... I don't buy that gas doesn't last as long, people don't maintain their SH*T. I am willing to bet a properly maintained, constantly driven EB will go 200k+ no problem. When people let vehicles sit, that's when they go to waste.
Old     (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-27-2012, 3:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
actually i can... the majority of gassers don't last as long as a diesel....
I hear ya but, you're the one that said the EB is 'just a diesel running on gas'. It should last just as long, unless you're saying that the fact that its using gas, instead of diesel is why it won't last as long.
Old     (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-27-2012, 3:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
whats the advantage of a 1/2 that gets the same or worse mileage than a 3/4 ton that gets good mileage?? Size is going to be close... ride will be stiffer in the 3/4 ton thats about the only difference
The size difference on paper seems close but the F250 Crew Cab is noticeably bigger in real life than the F150 Super Crew I have. The 1/2 ton EB suits me better and can do at least 90% of what the 3/4 ton can do. Not to mention my truck @ $40k was at least $15k cheaper than a similar 3/4 ton.

2012 1/2 Ton F150 Platinum Super Crew:

Width: 79.2 in.
Height: 75.0 in.
Length: 231.9 in.
Ground clearance: 7.9 in.
Front track: 67.0 in.
Rear track: 67.0 in.
Wheel base: 144.5 in.
Maximum towing capacity: 11300 lbs.
Maximum payload: 1790 lbs.
Gross weight: 7100 lbs.
Curb weight: 5254 lbs.


2012 3/4 Ton F250 Super Duty Crew Cab:

Width: 79.9 in.
Height: 77.4 in.
Length: 246.8 in.
Ground clearance: 8.5 in.
Front track: 68.3 in.
Rear track: 67.2 in.
Wheel base: 156.2 in.
Maximum towing capacity: 14000 lbs.
Maximum payload: 3590 lbs.
Gross weight: 9900 lbs.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-27-2012, 4:14 PM Reply   
Actually, by the numbers your truck can only pull 81% of what the 250 can pull and payload 50% of what the 250 can payload
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-27-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
That hair is officially split!!!!! LOL
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-27-2012, 4:52 PM Reply   
I say store your boat closer to the lake and stick with what you have...LOL!
Old     (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       09-27-2012, 4:53 PM Reply   
How about 34 mpg with 5k tow rating? To bad they don't have 'em here. The tacoma only gets like 21 mpg's... I'd probably buy this truck if I could.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/07...uck-gains.html
Old     (tx_foilhead)      Join Date: Apr 2009       09-27-2012, 5:11 PM Reply   
The whole point is what are you doing with it. I don't think anyone here is buying something with the intent of driving the wheels off of it except me. Longevity of gas v diesel doesn't mater otherwise. If you tow often then diesel is a no brainer, if you take the boat to the lake on the weekend gas probably works out better these days.

I have a standard 7.3 at work, it usually has 10000 lb trailers behind it and there's no way I would trade it. For my 2nd job I use a F250 with a V10 to pull mowers around the neighborhood, no big deal because I only use a tank of gas every month. It does pull the boat and the camper (train) a few times a year and the 8mpg doesn't mater because I could never make a diesel pay for itself with the limited use. Same thing though I won't trade it, a 5.4 wouldn't do it and an EB costs way to much to use it that way.
Old     (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       09-27-2012, 7:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Actually, by the numbers your truck can only pull 81% of what the 250 can pull and payload 50% of what the 250 can payload
Yeah, I didn't calculate it. I was just throwing out a number. Now that I think about it, my F150 does 100% of what a F250 could do...for me and how I use it, including pulling my 4k boat.

Anyway, none of this really applies to the original post since his budget is $10k. Sorry to have helped with the derail.
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-28-2012, 2:20 PM Reply   
I actually stumbled across something interesting. A '2008 Chevy Colorado LT Crew Cab Pickup' comes with a 3.7 Litres 5-Cylinder (inline). It's gets 15mpg city and 21 mpg highway. It's a 4-door with 4 wheel drive. This can get up to 5500lbs "When adequately equipped, which may require engine and/or other drivetrain upgrades".

Here's the link: "http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/colorado/2008/features-specs.html?style=100949722". Expand the Exterior node to see towing capacity.

This seems to pretty much have everything I want, however, it's hard to believe that a 5 cylinder could tow my 2001 X-Star. And what exactly would have to be done to the drivetrain in order to bring it up to a towing capacity of 5500??
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-28-2012, 2:23 PM Reply   
Nothing, just need a class 3 hitch vs a bumper tow I'm fairly certain. That'll tow it fine, I dont know of I believe 21mpg though...
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-28-2012, 2:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
I hear ya but, you're the one that said the EB is 'just a diesel running on gas'. It should last just as long, unless you're saying that the fact that its using gas, instead of diesel is why it won't last as long.
thats exactly it... you gotta understand how diesel performs compared to gas... diesel is a natural lubricant.... gas isn't.... gas explodes... diesel isn't nearly as volatile which is the reason many people use diesel in controlled burns and other related fire starting applications... gas would just explode and get out of control QUICK
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-28-2012, 2:58 PM Reply   
its all fine and dandy that your one saturn got 300k but the fact is a majority of diesels go 400k and beyond with proper maintenance. Why do you think Semi's have diesels? 1 mill miles on those engine is common...
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-28-2012, 3:07 PM Reply   
wakebordr11, there is also a less powerful version of this vehicle. it's a 4 cylinder 2.9 Litre. This one also claims to have a 5500 tow capacity, but again "When adequately equipped, which may require engine and/or other drivetrain upgrades". This claims to get even better gas mileage at 18/24mpg. I just don't understand how my truck with a V6 3.0L can't pull my boat, but this 4 cylinder 2.9 Litre can. I know there is more to it than just that but... I just don't understand tow capacity in general I guess.

Here's the link for this one:

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/col...tyle=100949721
Old     (vette74)      Join Date: Jun 2008       09-28-2012, 3:15 PM Reply   
I have no idea how you diesel owners are getting that mileage my dads 06 cummins with a 6 speed 4x4 gets 16 mpg hwy bone stock at 70 mph and that is literally with a grandpaw driving it. That is with synthetic lube in the diff and tranny.

No thanks I will take my ecoboost all day as long as I don't pull my gooseneck. Plus diesel owners never brag how much it costs to fix the damn things when the break. You can have all the $2000 fuel pumps you want (part only) I'll take my gasser the last one went 250k with no major issues
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       09-28-2012, 5:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by vette74 View Post
I have no idea how you diesel owners are getting that mileage my dads 06 cummins with a 6 speed 4x4 gets 16 mpg hwy bone stock at 70 mph and that is literally with a grandpaw driving it. That is with synthetic lube in the diff and tranny.
Thats the problem. Mine was getting 13-15 before the tuner exhaust etc.
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-28-2012, 3:16 PM Reply   
the difference in upfront cost of a diesel is negated when you go to trade it in or sell IMO.... diesels don't lose as much value as gasser as fast....


I could careless what you get... diesel or gas... just saying you got to look at the WHOLE picture.


2005 ram 1500 with HEMI with 100k , 4x4 SLT, towing pack, bedliner, = 14,375 Clean Retail(NADA)->> MSRP = 30495 (aol.com autos)

2005 ram 2500 with cummins with 100k, 4x4, slt, towing pack, bedliner = 22,650 Clean Retail(NADA)->> MSRP = 32,735 (aol.com autos)


I used 2005 ram just because it would be comparing HEMI to Cummins.... You could do the same for Sierra or Silverado.

pretty easy to see which one has held the value.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-28-2012, 3:20 PM Reply   
The colorado sound like a good option. I have no idea what the reliability is like on them. Is that the only vehicle GM produces with a 5 cylinder? fueleconomy.gov shows 15/20 for mpg in 2008 for a crewcab 4x4.

Are you completely against having a seperate tow rig and commuter? Do you need a pickup for a commuter?
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-28-2012, 3:22 PM Reply   
Greg, I think tow capacity has a lot less to do with motor than it does suspension, width, wheelbase and brakes.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-28-2012, 3:26 PM Reply   
just towed a boat to TN from Charlotte (3hrs) with my Eco 4X4 offroad, felt like it was uphill the whole way with the boat and got 11.5 there, for the downhill ride home I got 21.3
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-28-2012, 3:24 PM Reply   
^ correct... stiffer suspension == more capacity
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       09-28-2012, 5:12 PM Reply   
Oh and the 5cyl colorado will not tow a boat very well. My brother has one with the "upgrades" and its a gutless turd.
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-28-2012, 6:22 PM Reply   
Raf, I'm not really sure what your standards are when it comes to towing. I don't need anything that hauls @$$, I just need something that works, and is safe. THe other things i'm looking for here is decent gas mileage, 4WD, and a 4Door is a 'nice-to-have'. So.. I'm not really sure what to take from your last comment. Like, will the Colorado get the job done? Is it safe for a 3100 boat? Again, I don't tow that much, but when I want to take it on an hour trip once or twice a year, I don't want to be nervous about towing the boat. I'm not looking for something jacked up a mile high with giant steeel balls hanging off the back.
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       10-01-2012, 11:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_smith View Post
Raf, I'm not really sure what your standards are when it comes to towing. I don't need anything that hauls @$$, I just need something that works, and is safe. THe other things i'm looking for here is decent gas mileage, 4WD, and a 4Door is a 'nice-to-have'. So.. I'm not really sure what to take from your last comment. Like, will the Colorado get the job done? Is it safe for a 3100 boat? Again, I don't tow that much, but when I want to take it on an hour trip once or twice a year, I don't want to be nervous about towing the boat. I'm not looking for something jacked up a mile high with giant steeel balls hanging off the back.
Standards are pretty high being that I tow with a cummins 6.7 megacab 4x4, maybe I'm just spoiled. We have some pretty big hills from the lake to my house so I wouldn't even dream of towing with anything less than a full size v8.

The colorado is only a hair above 3500lbs curb weight, so towing a heavy boat just doesnt seem right to me. Seems like it will get tossed around pretty bad. Imagine trying to stop while turning.....

Also take into count the stress on the vehicle. The smaller the engine, the more it will have to work to get up to speed. I'm not saying it wont pull a boat, I bet my wife's 5 series will pull a boat, but it will wear the crap out of it. Engine, tranny, suspension, brakes etc etc.

Last edited by Raf1985; 10-01-2012 at 11:09 AM.
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-28-2012, 6:28 PM Reply   
Brett, I'm not against the idea of having a second vehicle. And nope, I don't need the pickup to be a commuter. But my thought was, it would be nice to have a truck that can commute sometimes. If I buy a tow-pig, my second car would probably be a real nice one. Then, I may want to divide the commuting a bit between the truck and the other vehicle so that all the commuting miles aren't just going on the nice new car. These are just thoughts.

The stuff you mentioned about towing capacity makes sense! Thanks for that.
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       10-01-2012, 10:20 AM Reply   
if you want the safest towing.... most efficient fuel mileage... 4x4... 4 door... and within your budget... then I would look at a Dodge diesel.......... The Colorado is going to get tossed around when you are towing bc the engine is weak... suspension is weak... wheel base is shorter.. etc etc. Will it tow a boat? Ya it probably could but you would be pushing its limits.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-01-2012, 10:35 AM Reply   
It wouldn't be pushing the trucks limits... It's got a 5500 capacity, he's rolling less than that with his boat. I wouldn't recommend towing really fast with that setup, need to plan ahead and you'll feel the boat back there, but that doesn't mean it is 'pushing' the limits. People used to tow those xstars all the time with S10 Blazers, Grand Cherokees, etc, it's the same class vehicle, it'll do fine.

Am I proponent of a midsize/compact truck/suv, no, I hate them personally. Ugly, the mileage isn't better, or marginally better. Yes I'd go diesel if I had the coin, but he doesn't HAVE to go diesel.

What I would do is nicer newer car and an old F150 with the 300 straight 6, good tq and those engines run forever, it's basically a tractor engine

Guess it also depends on his budget, which I don't think he's stated yet...

Last edited by wakebordr11; 10-01-2012 at 10:37 AM.
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       10-01-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post

Guess it also depends on his budget, which I don't think he's stated yet...
I think he said $10k somewhere
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-01-2012, 11:10 AM Reply   
One thing I don't think has been asked or answered is when you tow the boat where, how far and what type of terrain are normal? You don't need a 3/4 ton diesel to to 5 miles on flat ground and sea level.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-01-2012, 11:59 AM Reply   
You're right raf, just went to look back and see, didn't see it in his first post now I see it. Okay well not many dodge diesels in the 10k range unless you're going early 90s 12V motors, might be able to get a 24V for 10-12
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-01-2012, 8:02 PM Reply   
Our season here is about 6 months at best. I may ride from the end of April, to the end of October. During those 6 months, 90% of the time it's going to sit at the same location in a slip. A few times of the year I will take it to the mechanics, or to get winterized, etc. These places are all within about 12 miles or less. It is all paved road. I would probably say 2 or 3 times a year I would take it on a trip no more than about 70-80 miles away with about 95% of that being paved road. There is one hill at my cottage that I haven't tested yet that I will at some point. It is not paved and is a steep incline. However it's a very short hill. This concerns me slightly.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-01-2012, 9:18 PM Reply   
Doesn't sound like you need anything much bigger than you have more than a couple times a year. That said that is a fairly long haul for the trips if you are pushing the limits of the vehicle.

Honestly for the amount of miles you are talking about(~26000 miles) putting on your vehicle(s) a year I think you would be much better served with 2 vehicles more suited to the 2 tasks you would put them up to. Let's just look at it from a mathematical point of view without looking at the initial price. With the very minimal towing miles it looks like you will put there is no reason to even calculate for mpg while towing. My guess is something decent like that colorado you are talking about is closer to 15k.

Lets say you find a nice pickup like the Colorado you are talking about or a similar rig. You will probably average 17.5 mpg tops over a calendar year. 26000/17.5=1485 gallons*$4/gallon =$5940 in fuel.

Now lets say you decide to purchase 2 vehicles that total cost the same price as the single truck purchased above. For the same 15k or so you are talking about with the colorado you could probably find a nice 50-75k mile civic, jetta, etc. that will get you 30 mpg average for commuting for around 10k. For 3-5k you could find a decent to rig. F150, silverado, ram, etc... Using the truck for commuting some will probably get you 15mpg or so. Lets divide it 20k on the commuter car and 6k on the pickup/tow vehicle. This is how it works out.

commuter 20000 miles/30mpg=666.67gallons*$4/gallon=$2667/year in fuel $.
tow rig 6000 miles/15mpg=400 gallons*$4/gallon=$1600/year in fuel $.
2667+1600=$4267

5940-4267=$1673 in fuel savings a year. In my opinion we don't really need to figure in maintanance costs when looking at this because whether you have one vehicle or 2 you are putting the same total miles on the vehicles. purchase price doesn't matter that much as you can easily get a nice econobox and an older tow vehicle for the same price. Not sure what licensing is on vehicles in Canada but that woudl be an extra cost but if it is based on vehicle value it might not be that much of a difference? MAybe an extra $100/year. Insurance will be more with 2 vehicles but if you only have liability on the truck than I would assume $50 or so more a month. Lets round way up though and say it would be a $100 more a month. That would mean insurance and licensing would be about $1300 more a year than the single vehicle although I think that $1300 number is $300-$500 high.

So what is the end result. At very worst having 2 vehicles that cost a combined 10-15k will cost you no more and maybe even save you slightly over have a single 10-15k do it all vehicle. this doesn't take into account that if you are looking at something like the Colorado I am not sure they are known as being reliable and the maintanance and other fixes might be higher than 2 task specific vehicles. Also, with 2 vehicles you will end up with a tow vehicle that will do the job much, much better and keep you(you're family) safer. Unless you have issues that you don't have room for the extra vehicle buying 2 vehicles makes much, much more sense fiscally speaking plus you will still be able to get your pickup truck fix when you need to. If I had the 2 I probably would almost never commute in the truck unless the commuter is in the shop, the weather permits needing a 4x4 or you just haven't driven the truck in a while. I would think out of 26000 miles a year the allocation of miles would be closer to 23000/3000 than 20000/6000. That would even skew the number more in favor of the 2 vehicle approach.
Old     (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-03-2012, 2:18 PM Reply   
I appreciate everyone taking the time to give me some ideas. Part of me wants to get a 2nd vehicle, and part of me doesn't. I guess I just need to take some time to figure out what I want to do. There's definitely lot of good information here.

Funny enough, I just kind of picked the Chev Colorado as an example of the kind of truck I'm looking for. Then I noticed that it was actually rated #1 in gas efficiency amongst recent trucks.

#10 - 2013 chev silverado 15/22 MPG

#9 - 2012 suzuki equator 19/23 MPG

#8 - 2012 nissan frontier 19/23 MPG

#7 - 2013 GMc Sierra 1500 Hybrid 20/23 MPG

#6 - 2013 Ford F-150 17/23 MPG

#5 - 2013 Chev Silverado 1500 Hybrid 20/23 MPG

#4 - 2013 Toyota Tacoma 21/25 MPG

#3 - 2013 RAM 1500 17/25 MPG

#2 - 2012 GMC Canyon 18/25 MPG

#1 - 2012 Chev Colorado 18/25 MPG - 2.9 L I-4 185HP
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-03-2012, 3:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_smith View Post
I appreciate everyone taking the time to give me some ideas. Part of me wants to get a 2nd vehicle, and part of me doesn't. I guess I just need to take some time to figure out what I want to do. There's definitely lot of good information here.

Funny enough, I just kind of picked the Chev Colorado as an example of the kind of truck I'm looking for. Then I noticed that it was actually rated #1 in gas efficiency amongst recent trucks.

#10 - 2013 chev silverado 15/22 MPG

#9 - 2012 suzuki equator 19/23 MPG

#8 - 2012 nissan frontier 19/23 MPG

#7 - 2013 GMc Sierra 1500 Hybrid 20/23 MPG

#6 - 2013 Ford F-150 17/23 MPG

#5 - 2013 Chev Silverado 1500 Hybrid 20/23 MPG

#4 - 2013 Toyota Tacoma 21/25 MPG

#3 - 2013 RAM 1500 17/25 MPG

#2 - 2012 GMC Canyon 18/25 MPG

#1 - 2012 Chev Colorado 18/25 MPG - 2.9 L I-4 185HP


That rating is with a 4cyl and would bet in a 2wd standard cab. For a 4wd crew cab with a bigger engine(that will actually tow a boat) I would bet 15/21 tops.
Old     (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       10-03-2012, 3:12 PM Reply   
the tacoma V6 gets 21mpg's on the highway. Amazing it is so poor.
Old     (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       10-05-2012, 9:30 AM Reply   
If the colorado gets 18/25 and the full size ram get 17/25 then I would for sure get the ram. Is that with the v6 or v8?
Old     (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-05-2012, 1:54 PM Reply   
Although I do a 2 vehicle approach (1999 Tahoe 2dr and 2001 civic for daily driver) I'm fond of the 2004 and under jeep grand cherokees. If my VLX wasn't so heavy, I'd seriously think about doing away with 2 cars and owning a grand cherokee.

5k towing capacity, bulletproof inline 6 cylinder, 4x4, front and rear independent suspension for comfortable daily driver ride, limited package trim with leather, sunroof, dvd, etc. We have a 2004 JGC Laredo in the family with the straight six, 4x4 with 190k miles. I used it to tow a 1986 Nautique 2001 for 2 years and then a 2006 Malibu v-ride tandem axle for one year until i bought my Tahoe. I added a $80 Air Lift helper bag kit to the rear suspension for tongue weight support and it towed surprisingly well. My mom still daily drives it 60 miles a day and averages 18 to 18.5mpg in moderate traffic. I've seen 19.5 out of it on long highway trips maintaining 70mph. My brother and I towed his 21ft bass boat 150 miles with it 2 weekends ago and got 15mpg towing with it at 60-65mph.

Good luck in your search.
Old     (njskier)      Join Date: Jul 2005       10-12-2012, 8:38 PM Reply   
You can get an F150 eco-boost reg cab with just a few options for under $35K
Same for a Chevy Silverado 5.3 liter
Not sure if it's still available, but the 5.3 liter was an option on the Colorado........that should get 20+ mpg hwy

Or pay $100/month to store your boat near the water (as someone suggested)
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-13-2012, 12:56 PM Reply   
"2013 RAM 1500 17/25 MPG"
I got the 2011 RAM 1500 and I get 20 mpg and can pull (pulling less than 10% of the time)any wakeboard boat(of course less mileage)e, it has a hemi, 4x4 and ext cab, I have been very happy with it(no problems). if the Ram 1500(8 cylinder) is now getting 25 mpg, I think I have to look into it.

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