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Old     (brazosfreak05)      Join Date: May 2009       11-07-2011, 6:41 PM Reply   
First off i just want to say that I am a long time fan of Mastercraft. I have ridden behind a mastercraft for the last 20 years. Started off with a ps 190 then a ps 205 and now a 2007 x2. I have also ridden behind a few xstars and they have always been my dream boat. I am thinking of buying a boat pretty soon and was wondering people thoughts were. I have never ridden any of the new mb's and i am not sure on all the models. But in my mind i really only care about the actual wakeboarding wake. I dont care about stock ballast vs stock ballast. I just wonder how the x star with about 3500 lbs compares to an MB with 3500 lbs. If any one has any thoughts, pics, or any other information that would be great. Also the new MB's i hear are alot cheaper than the new mastercrafts. Thanks in advance.
Old    Nick911            11-07-2011, 6:58 PM Reply   
Is this a joke?
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 1:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Is this a joke?
No, this is not a joke.

MB F21 with stock ballast, 450 in the bow, 4 adults, and 2 kids.
Old     (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-09-2011, 4:34 AM Reply   
I know it's not an MB or an MC, however, if you "really only care about the wakeboarding wake", then a set behind a loaded SAN 230 is a must. Absolutely the best wake I have ever ridden...been behind new and old xstars (owned one for the past 5 years), Malibu LSV's and VLX's, Epic's, Supra's, Axis's, the X25, SAN 210's (old and new), Tige's, SAN 220. The SAN 230 is by far the biggest and hardest wake and also has the perfect shape (pretty much an older slammed XStar wake, 205v, on steroids).

If price is an issue, then you could consider an older one (2008/2009)....just a thought.
Attached Images
  
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 7:05 AM Reply   
SANs are nice boats, and if you only care about wake, then I'd try them all and find the wake that suits you best.
You can't compare MC to MB, it's not apples to apples. A Corvette ZR1 will go as fast as a Ferrari F430, however the two cars are not the same, catch my drift?
Old     (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-09-2011, 7:09 AM Reply   
Both are wakeboard boats and inboards, it is apples to apples. A lot of my friends are MC owners and all love my MB. As far as your comparison above... at least the ZR1 wont' catch on fire
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 7:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Both are wakeboard boats and inboards, it is apples to apples. A lot of my friends are MC owners and all love my MB. As far as your comparison above... at least the ZR1 wont' catch on fire
Not really, the xstar is not an apples to apples comaprrison with an MB, that's like comparing a lamborgini with a mustang, they are both sports cars after all.... MBs are great boats, but the Xstar has one of the best loaded wakes on the market, and if what they say about 2012 is true it's not even close. The xstar is also way over priced, so wake to wake comparison xstar hands down, value MB hands down.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-10-2011, 4:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
SANs are nice boats, and if you only care about wake, then I'd try them all and find the wake that suits you best.
You can't compare MC to MB, it's not apples to apples. A Corvette ZR1 will go as fast as a Ferrari F430, however the two cars are not the same, catch my drift?
LOL, the ZR1 will go as fast short shifting to save gas and never flooring it. In a straight line, the F430 can't keep up with a C6 Z06, let alone a ZR1. It's also significantly slower around the Nürburgring and has a lower top speed than both. Not even a fair comparison. Ferrari gets you a more sexy car inside and out with nicer materials, trading off performance, reliability, all for a lot more money. And I LOVE Ferraris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Both are wakeboard boats and inboards, it is apples to apples. A lot of my friends are MC owners and all love my MB. As far as your comparison above... at least the ZR1 wont' catch on fire
The fire thing is the 458, not the 430, and has been blown out of proportion.
Old     (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-09-2011, 7:36 AM Reply   
I will just agree to disagree on the apples to apples thing... as you are all comparing already. Also, I think the Mustang/Lambo thing is WAY off.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 7:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
I will just agree to disagree on the apples to apples thing... as you are all comparing already. Also, I think the Mustang/Lambo thing is WAY off.
i agree... all these boats are comparable... when you compare these things its more like comparing a 911 gt3(MB, no frills all function, brutal and powerful) to an aston martin (MC, frilly, luxurious, velour, gentle) , they both go 0-60 in four seconds its just a matter how you want to do it, and if you want 2 MB's or one MC for your 100k...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 7:39 AM Reply   
Well whats your price range?
What wake shape do you prefer?

i hate MC's because i can't stand the mellow ass wake, but that's me, and i used to be the biggest MC fan boy, but i stopped sippin that kool aid. That and the fact they are overpriced. Them and CC are out of control but lets not get into it...

I understand that the MB wake is steeper and you could probably plumb in that extra 1500lbs over stock pretty easily if you wanted too and just added some pumps. So if you like a steep wake go mb
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-28-2013, 4:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Well whats your price range?
What wake shape do you prefer?

i hate MC's because i can't stand the mellow ass wake, but that's me, and i used to be the biggest MC fan boy, but i stopped sippin that kool aid. That and the fact they are overpriced. Them and CC are out of control but lets not get into it...

I understand that the MB wake is steeper and you could probably plumb in that extra 1500lbs over stock pretty easily if you wanted too and just added some pumps. So if you like a steep wake go mb
I like how you work in a quick slam, and then say let's not get into it. Face it, if you want the best you have to pay to play. MB is a good boat, but so is my stars and stripes, so are they apples to apples?
Old     (zap)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-28-2013, 5:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcityskier View Post
I like how you work in a quick slam, and then say let's not get into it. Face it, if you want the best you have to pay to play. MB is a good boat, but so is my stars and stripes, so are they apples to apples?
What makes it the best?

The lightning storm feature? push a button and the tower goes down in 30 seconds? I would prefer to push a button and load 2000 lbs of ballast in 90 seconds... And I don't even own a MB
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-09-2011, 7:53 AM Reply   
Can y'all please stop talking about cars you've never driven in a boat thread?
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 8:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHebrewHammer View Post
Can y'all please stop talking about cars you've never driven in a boat thread?
It's called an analogy...

It's pretty accurate too, you'rec ompareing a 50-70k boat that is very nice and probably the best boat for the money to the gold standard luxury boat in the industry that runs around 100-125k brand new for a 2012. The loaded wake on the xstar is what all other wakes are compared to, and it sounds like they've just made much much better. MBs are grat, but to say it's apples to apples comparing loaded wakes to the xstar is a bit of a stretch
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 8:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
MBs are grat, but to say it's apples to apples comparing loaded wakes to the xstar is a bit of a stretch
maybe we should ask one of the ennens heard they put about 6k in an mb and they don't seem to having any wake issues...
Yea it's the "gold standard" because they pay for the contests...
Given that there are 3 major contests, Worlds (supra), PWT (MC), and Wake Games (nautique). What 3 boats are you going to train behind? The 242, The 230, and Star. Why? Not because those wakes are the "best" but because they PAID for their boat to tow the contest and you want to ride well and make money, so you train behind them prior to a contest. If MB shelled out the money for a major contest their boat might be considered the "best" too. Not saying that any of these boats dont have great wakes they do, and they've all proven that but to not compare the MB and the xstar because the x-star is the "gold standard" is just silly...

Last edited by simplej; 11-09-2011 at 8:20 AM.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
maybe we should ask one of the ennens heard they put about 6k in an mb and they don't seem to having any wake issues...
Yea it's the "gold standard" because they pay for the contests...
Given that there are 3 major contests, Worlds (supra), PWT (MC), and Wake Games (nautique). What 3 boats are you going to train behind? The 242, The 230, and Star. Why? Not because those wakes are the "best" but because they PAID for their boat to tow the contest and you want to ride well and make money, so you train behind them prior to a contest. If MB shelled out the money for a major contest their boat might be considered the "best" too. Not saying that any of these boats dont have great wakes they do, and they've all proven that but to not compare the MB and the xstar because the x-star is the "gold standard" is just silly...
I guess you're right they are all exactly the same and comrable, there are no hull differences between them, all of their wake shapes are the same. It's all about paying money not the wake itself. Hell might as well throw bayliner into the discussion if you weigh it down too.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-09-2011, 9:12 AM Reply   
There is truth in what he says like it or not. I know first hand of someone who bought a CC and sold his MC just because most the contests his son was in were towed by CC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I guess you're right they are all exactly the same and comrable, there are no hull differences between them, all of their wake shapes are the same. It's all about paying money not the wake itself. Hell might as well throw bayliner into the discussion if you weigh it down too.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 1:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I guess you're right they are all exactly the same and comrable, there are no hull differences between them, all of their wake shapes are the same. It's all about paying money not the wake itself. Hell might as well throw bayliner into the discussion if you weigh it down too.
did you not read my first 2 posts in the thread? clearly not. so get with it. wake shape was the first thing i mentioned.
If every wake was the same there would be no reason to cross train, don't be silly.
These companies PAY to make themselves LOOK like their boat is the best maybe thats why you think the xstar wake is no comparison.
The OP wants to know about the WAKE of each boat, for you to say you cant compare a 23TWB to an xstar as far as wake is concerned is ignorant, pretty clear that you can get a pro level wake from each boat. so keep sippin your kool aid, hater.

And for anyone to flame MB for being cheaper, trust me that means nothing, these boats use largely the same components from the same brands. Might the build quality on MC be a little better, yea maybe, but it better be 5x as good for the money. I would pick an MB over an xstar any day of the week, why? it has a PCM powerplant, fast ballast, and most importantly A STEEPER WAKE which gets back to my first post anyways...
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-09-2011, 8:33 AM Reply   
Which boat has the best dealer support near you?
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 9:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Which boat has the best dealer support near you?
That's actually the best question, I would never buy a mastercraft because the dealer close to me sucks
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 9:16 AM Reply   
There is truth, I mean if you compete and the contest you ride are pulled by a specific boat then it makes sense to practice behind one. I didn't see the op asking about contest riding. In the end I think you're going to get a better wake out of a loaded xstar, is it worth the extra 50-75k, hell no. I'm not a fan of mastercraft, nor do I dislike MB. In fact I think MB puts out some of the most value for the dollar boats there are.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 9:52 AM Reply   
Using logic,the op isn't a competition level wakeboarder.Why, because he would be comparing 2 boats used in most competitions.MB would be the better choice here.Less initial money outlayed and less depreciation [total dollars] on resale if he decides to sell it.If you don't see it like that,your not putting yourself in HIS shoes.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2011, 9:31 AM Reply   
How many of you guys who are saying this "wake" comparison is invalid have ridden both boats?
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 9:38 AM Reply   
I looked at a new MB and looked at a new MC. There are a hundred different items alone that make the MC simply a better quality boat.

Let's be honest, no one would choose an MB over MC if cost were not an issue.

MB is not a boat one strives to own, MB is a boat one settles on when pocket book does not allow for MC, CC, Bu.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 9:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
I looked at a new MB and looked at a new MC. There are a hundred different items alone that make the MC simply a better quality boat.

Let's be honest, no one would choose an MB over MC if cost were not an issue.

MB is not a boat one strives to own, MB is a boat one settles on when pocket book does not allow for MC, CC, Bu.
That's true in general, but not always.I could afford any boat on that list,but i bought a less expensive one.Why,because i liked it and i didn't have to join a club.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 9:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
MB is not a boat one strives to own, MB is a boat one settles on when pocket book does not allow for MC, CC, Bu.
wow....
A Boat is something someone strives to earn let alone a 60k depreciable wakeboat thats going to to be a bitch to maintain 5 years down the line with all the fancy screens and crap.

I would really like to know what some kids on a brand new MB would tell you if you rolled up on their riding spot with that type of atitude...
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2011, 10:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
MB is not a boat one strives to own, MB is a boat one settles on when pocket book does not allow for MC, CC, Bu.
Hmm. Such strong statements. I did not look at MC. Yet, I did test BU, CC and MB head to head. And, my choice was MB independent of price. Saving $15K to $20K was just a nice bonus. IMO, MB wins on wake production over BU/CC, MB wins on interior over CC (notchy) and MB wins on wake shape over BU (rampy).
Old     (brazosfreak05)      Join Date: May 2009       11-09-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
Firt off i guess my comparassion came off wrong. I totally understand that the Xstar suppposedly has all the bells and whistles and trust me the wake is amazing i know. But they just keep getting more and more expensive each year. Like someone stated above you could buy 2 mb for the price of the new xstar. Also its correct i am not a competion rider. I just love to go out and ride and have the biggest wake possible. It just so fun to have a meaty wake and float out all your tricks. Right now i run a mc x2 with stock ballast plus the flyhigh up grade with a 750 on the floor and a 600 in the front walkway. No matter what boat i get i am going to want to sack the shi t out of it. So i guess my question is what the best value out there for the best wake? Does that make sense? For instance is this new xstar's wake going to be worth 125K compared to a MB for 55k. Or even an 05 xstar for 50k?
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 10:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazosfreak05 View Post
Firt off i guess my comparassion came off wrong. I totally understand that the Xstar suppposedly has all the bells and whistles and trust me the wake is amazing i know. But they just keep getting more and more expensive each year. Like someone stated above you could buy 2 mb for the price of the new xstar. Also its correct i am not a competion rider. I just love to go out and ride and have the biggest wake possible. It just so fun to have a meaty wake and float out all your tricks. Right now i run a mc x2 with stock ballast plus the flyhigh up grade with a 750 on the floor and a 600 in the front walkway. No matter what boat i get i am going to want to sack the shi t out of it. So i guess my question is what the best value out there for the best wake? Does that make sense? For instance is this new xstar's wake going to be worth 125K compared to a MB for 55k. Or even an 05 xstar for 50k?
Only you can answer that.Demo both boats and see if the MC is twice as much boat or twice as good a wake.It really doesn't matter what our opinion is as they all are different.
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 12:01 PM Reply   
MB boats are gonna push all other boats out of market place, they have the best wake, best layout, best engine, best quality, are the lightest, best looking, have best resale and cost the less.

And as soon as everybody realizes this, they'll sell more than 500 boats a year.
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 12:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Only you can answer that.Demo both boats and see if the MC is twice as much boat or twice as good a wake.It really doesn't matter what our opinion is as they all are different.
Equivalent MB to my X25 only 20K difference FYI.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Equivalent MB to my X25 only 20K difference FYI.
I was using OP's original post stating Mastercraft X-STAR was his dream boat.I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers.Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 12:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Equivalent MB to my X25 only 20K difference FYI.
That's a lie. You spent $90K. It is impossible to make an MB cost $70K, unless your dealer is raping you in the process. Shoot, it's hard to make an MB cost $60K.
Old     (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       11-09-2011, 12:14 PM Reply   
Damn people throw around only $20K like it's $20. $20K is 33.3% of a $60K boat.
Old     (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-09-2011, 12:22 PM Reply   
Best Value and Best Wake....you may want to check out an X1. I'd suspect that they will be holding their values fairly well now, since the production of them has stopped. IMO, the wake of a slammed X1 is one of the best out there.
Old     (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2011, 12:25 PM Reply   
Just put up a poll asking "If you could have either one of these boats for free, X-Star or MB _____(insert name here because i have no idea)", i think you will get a good feeling on the answer. Now 230 vs X-star, might be a closer race.

You may be saving 20k on the MB but you will make it up on the resale value. I had an 01 X-Star (X-1now) from 01-04 then got the 210. We paid 42 for the x-star and they gave us 35 when we traded it for the 210 which i think was around 45. That's a hell of deal considering we pretty much destroyed the engine on the x-star from all of the years/hours of 3000 extra pounds of ballast, but they didn't care, still took it no questions asked. Don't think you would have the same results with an MB, and Jay is right, a slammed X-1 is my favorite wake out there. I like it more than the slammed 210, but the 210 handled the weight better. It would take half of our pass just to plane out on the x-star-1 and we had way more problems with it.

Last edited by kyle_L; 11-09-2011 at 12:29 PM.
Old     (zap)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-23-2013, 7:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_L View Post
Just put up a poll asking "If you could have either one of these boats for free, X-Star or MB _____(insert name here because i have no idea)", i think you will get a good feeling on the answer. Now 230 vs X-star, might be a closer race.

You may be saving 20k on the MB but you will make it up on the resale value. I had an 01 X-Star (X-1now) from 01-04 then got the 210. We paid 42 for the x-star and they gave us 35 when we traded it for the 210 which i think was around 45. That's a hell of deal considering we pretty much destroyed the engine on the x-star from all of the years/hours of 3000 extra pounds of ballast, but they didn't care, still took it no questions asked. Don't think you would have the same results with an MB, and Jay is right, a slammed X-1 is my favorite wake out there. I like it more than the slammed 210, but the 210 handled the weight better. It would take half of our pass just to plane out on the x-star-1 and we had way more problems with it.
This is an easy question, I would take the MB23 any day because we like to do more than just wakeboard.

Xstars are specific to wakeboarding only, thier surf wake isn't desirable due to its short transition and very vertical face. 23 TWB throws a fabulous surf wake... and I'm an enzo guy
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 12:46 PM Reply   
What length MB are we talking anyways? Are we comparing a 2012 xstar or and 04-11 xstar? two totaly different category of boat by length
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2011, 1:05 PM Reply   
Nick911, which MBs have you ridden behind?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 1:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
What length MB are we talking anyways? Are we comparing a 2012 xstar or and 04-11 xstar? two totaly different category of boat by length
how can we even make THAT comparison, the boat isnt even OUT yet
Old     (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-09-2011, 1:29 PM Reply   
Nick just paid over 90k for his X25 so he feels he should make sure everyone knows its the best on the market.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Nick just paid over 90k for his X25 so he feels he should make sure everyone knows its the best on the market.
clearly. every MC owner i have ever met has the same type of atitude it disgusts me.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-09-2011, 1:45 PM Reply   
lol @ saying comparing an X Star to a 21TWB is like comparing a Lambo to a Mustang..

LMAO - same engine, same hull materials, seating options, same vinyl, same ballast

I don't own either boat but the only thing superior about the X-Star is the slammed wake and the owners ego.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 1:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
lol @ saying comparing an X Star to a 21TWB is like comparing a Lambo to a Mustang..

LMAO - same engine, same hull materials, seating options, same vinyl, same ballast

I don't own either boat but the only thing superior about the X-Star is the slammed wake and the owners ego.
THey don't have the same engine, same vinyl, the same options, same ballast, the same hull design. They are completely different boats. Are you just trolling, as usual?
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-09-2011, 2:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
THey don't have the same engine, same vinyl, the same options, same ballast, the same hull design. They are completely different boats. Are you just trolling, as usual?
must be an MC owner.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 2:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
must be an MC owner.
Must not know much about either boat and have reading comprehension issues
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-09-2011, 1:49 PM Reply   
Lambo - V12, Carbon Fiber Body/Brakes, Suede Interior, Trillion Dollar 8 speed Gearbox - $250k
Mustang - V8, pleather, 6 speed manual, sheetmetal - $35k

X-Star - gelcoat hull, vinyl interior, v8 engine, ballast/tower/stereo - $100k
MB - gelcoat hull, vinyl interior, v8 engine, ballast/tower/stereo - $55k

Apples/Oranges
Apples/Apples

To each their own. I love Stars and X25's but LOL @ Lambo/Stang comparison.. Quite a stretch there for the MC owners..

Last edited by jeff_mn; 11-09-2011 at 1:51 PM. Reason: typo
Old     (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-09-2011, 2:22 PM Reply   
I am not joining your guys crapping contest but to respond to the original post. I went on a demo of a 2008 21 MB and I thought it was a great boat especially for the price (at the time I was comparing it to Supra 21v). I ended up w/ Nautique 210 just because I got a great deal, liked the dealer, and its what I wanted. A year later I went to a demo day for the 2009 Xstar, it had additional sacs in it (don't know how much) now I am a novice rider so most wakes are too much for me anyways (so i won't give an opinion on wake) but I will say this between those two boats:

If they were the same price? Xstar
If I was selecting between the two and the current prices I have seen - MB
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-09-2011, 2:33 PM Reply   
If it were me unless I am a comp rider I would take the X25 over the x star. Need less weight to jack it up and you can surf it well. Who the hell really knows what the 2012 X star wake is really like. Great videos once again with bags all over the place just like every other pro boat so who knows. If money is no object I think MOST would pick MC over MB but not all. Lets say the wake being the same there is more fun gadgets in the MC and most of us message board losers are gadget guys and like it or not it has a high end reputation. As soon as money comes into it the MC to MB for most of us and our skills does not warrant the 20 to 40k price difference.
Old     (riddick)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-10-2011, 2:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
Who the hell really knows what the 2012 X star wake is really like.
Its awesome!

I have been lucky enough to ride behind several MBs the V23 and Tomcat as well as all of the x-star's including the new 2012 star. In being a big MC fan, my opinion will be very biased. So the best advise to give to you is to go spend as much time as you can on each boat, both riding and driving, and base your decision on that.

If you do get the opportunity to go out and ride an x-star, ride one with the pro ballast setup. That wake is one of my personal favorites.

Good luck with your boat search.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 2:31 PM Reply   
i dont even own MB! just go back to my first post in the thread.... you clearly didnt read that i used to be HUGE MC fan until i started having lots of experiences in them. the 2003-2011 xstar is an amazing hull and boat (RIP?) but that by no means makes it the end all, be all of wakeboats, its not the gold standard its just what every pro rides in contests. theres no stretch at all comparing the wakes of the two! its just which wake you prerfer, steep or mellow.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 2:46 PM Reply   
Here is what I mean by gold standard, it has nothing to do wiht the pro game. It's that when you start talking the best wakes around you're always going to have the SAN and Xstar as the two of the top wakes out there others are compared to. I'm not a fan of mastercraft, nor natique, but that's due to them being a little too proud of their products. The BUs are moving in, but still the SAN and Xstar were and are the gold standard. You have the steep wall of the san, and the rampy fat wake of the xstar, by mellow I think you mean rampy. If the 2012 loaded wake is what they say it is then you have a whole new level of wake boat out there. Seriously when pros start comparing the wake to double ups it's time to take notice. Still way over priced...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 3:02 PM Reply   
when pros who are paid by MC say...
So if a Malibu 22mxz and a Tige rz2 pulled the two biggest tourney's the x star and 230 would still be the "gold standard"? no way. regardles the wake is definitely comparable to an MB, just like you can compare it to a malibu, tige, nautique, axis, moomba, supra...
and dont forget MC knows they're the "best" don't make me pull up the you tube videos...
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 3:11 PM Reply   
It may be they were paid to say that, but it's an awful big claim that will be shown to be true or a lie next year. If people drop 125k on a boat and the wake is far under what they say it is I think they may have a PR issue. Like I said I'm not basing it off contests, but if you ask everyone the best wakes I gaurntee you the xstar and SAN are in the top three for almost everyone.
I know pros compared the MXZ stock wake to a loaded LSV, and according to people I know who have been behind one, and the pics they sent, the pros were dead on, even though they were paid to make their statement.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 3:32 PM Reply   
regardless i still say that any 23 foot wake boat can produce a large pro level wake, just like the x star can do.
So pick a wake shape you like and stick with it no reason to flame MB wakes for being inadequate at all.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-09-2011, 7:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
regardless i still say that any 23 foot wake boat can produce a large pro level wake, just like the x star can do.
So pick a wake shape you like and stick with it no reason to flame MB wakes for being inadequate at all.
I never said they are inadequate, I just wouldn't compare them to a loaded xstar, that's not exactly saying they suck. I never "flamed" MB, infact I spoke highly of them in everyone of my posts. I don't think I'd put any of the price point wakes up against the xstar, other than a loaded Axis. Surf wake wise I think the MB does a much better job than any boat mentioned here, due to their deep rounded hull.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 3:49 PM Reply   
Nobody is paying me.I have ridden behind all of the above mentioned boats.I can afford all of the above mentioned boats.But i'm not or never will be a competition level rider.I would also think anyone who could afford a Mastercraft X-STAR or X25 will never be a Pro.[but their son or daughter might].The OP asked about making an investment in a new boat.Only he or his children can make that decision with Demos of both boats.Then they can decide whether or not one is better than the other for their needs.I don't own a Mastercraft or a MB,but i have ridden in and behind both.They are both well built boats,but they are different too.
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 6:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Nick911, which MBs have you ridden behind?
Have not ridden behind any MBs.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-09-2011, 10:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Have not ridden behind any MBs.
I find it amazing that you are willing to spout negativity towards MB without any experience behind their boats.

Last edited by diamonddad; 11-09-2011 at 10:38 PM.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 1:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Have not ridden behind any MBs.
Busted. You just outed yourself as a hater.

The OP asked about wakeboarding wake of MB vs. MC. He did NOT ask about anybody's perception of brand value. I think it's funny that nobody has attempted to answer his question.

Since you have not ridden behind the MB, I don't know why you are even posting. How can you offer any value here unless you know the MB wake?

Do you even know what the X25 wake is like? Did you demo before you paid (or likely financed) the $90K? Or did you just buy it because it's the boat all your neighbors "strive for" and you want to be sure everybody on the lake knows you are the king dick?
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 6:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakereviews View Post
Nick just paid over 90k for his X25 so he feels he should make sure everyone knows its the best on the market.
No sane or rational person would choose a F21 Tomcat over an X25 price tags being equal. No one. No one ever.
Old    Nick911            11-09-2011, 6:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
That's true in general, but not always.I could afford any boat on that list,but i bought a less expensive one.Why,because i liked it and i didn't have to join a club.
Whether you could afford it or not price was a factor was it not? You can honestly say if the MB was 90K you would have bought it?
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 7:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Whether you could afford it or not price was a factor was it not? You can honestly say if the MB was 90K you would have bought it?
I don't understand what point you are making.I don't own a MB or a Mastercraft.All i was saying is NOT ALL PEOPLE think a Mastercraft is worth what they ask for them.Also many people not familar with inboards think a MB is worth what they are asking for it.The OP is asking which boat is the best value[what you get for what you pay].Only he can decide that because only he knows what he wants out of his boat.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 8:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Whether you could afford it or not price was a factor was it not? You can honestly say if the MB was 90K you would have bought it?
he just said it was no object
he bought a tige rz2 because that's what worked for him. He likes the wake, and got a fully loaded one for less money than an MC with an option here or there, he likes the boat better i don't understand why thats so difficult grasp. more money does not equal more boat or more wake. end of story. No need to scoff at the OP for comparing the two wakes I am sure that a TWB can make a wake equivalent to an x star with the right weight placement... no need to bash MB and making the owners here feel like it is any less boat. Those things are an absolute steal for 50-60k, 2k ballast, PCM powerplants, there's nothing not to like about them and the fit and finish looks top notch. This absolutely an apples to apples comparison, no questions asked.
Thats not to say that MC does not make an excellent product, they do.

Last edited by simplej; 11-09-2011 at 8:42 PM.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 8:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
he just said it was no object
he bought a tige rz2 because that's what worked for him. He likes the wake, and got a fully loaded one for less money than an MC with an option here or there, he likes the boat better i don't understand why thats so difficult grasp. more money does not equal more boat or more wake. end of story. No need to scoff at the OP for comparing the two wakes I am sure that a TWB can make a wake equivalent to an x star with the right weight placement... no need to bash MB and making the owners here feel like it is any less boat. Those things are an absolute steal for 50-60k, 2k ballast, PCM powerplants, there's nothing not to like about them and the fit and finish looks top notch. This absolutely an apples to apples comparison, no questions asked.
Thats not to say that MC does not make an excellent product, they do.
Plus i didn't want to get scolded for ringing my cowbell.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 8:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Plus i didn't want to get scolded for ringing my cowbell.
i thought if i was doing the ringing it would be okay
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 8:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
i thought if i was doing the ringing it would be okay
Thanks J.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 1:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Whether you could afford it or not price was a factor was it not? You can honestly say if the MB was 90K you would have bought it?
You keep throwing your price tag around like it's supposed to impress us.

Do you honestly believe your boat is better than all the others because of what you paid? If so, I feel sorry for you... You took the MC bait... hook, line, and sinker.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-09-2011, 11:07 PM Reply   
Wakes are not similar at all, not even close. The xstar is all the way to the rampy side of the spectrum, and the mb to the other. Go ride both and if u like both wakes then its a no brainer, mb hands down. If you dislike the mb wake, then you wont buy it, no matter how inexpensive it is.

There is a comparible wake to the xstar in the same price point as the mb, so if u like the xstars wake, but the mb price, you will need to look elsewhere.

Good luck and have fun boat shopping
Old    Nick911            11-10-2011, 2:45 AM Reply   
Correct, the original post is asking only to compare wakes, to which I can't comment.

I just found it odd that he would be choosing between boats in two different price categories.

Should have been MC vs Tige, or,
MB vs Moomba.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-10-2011, 3:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Correct, the original post is asking only to compare wakes, to which I can't comment.
And yet you have 8 posts in this thread to remind us all how cool you are with your shiny high-end boat.
Old     (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-10-2011, 4:51 AM Reply   
These compare threads are ridiculous. Everybody thinks their brand is the best. This is just a Ford vs Chevy debate . Bottom line test ride them ALL and buy the one YOU like best.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-10-2011, 5:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
These compare threads are ridiculous. Everybody thinks their brand is the best. This is just a Ford vs Chevy debate . Bottom line test ride them ALL and buy the one YOU like best.
According to them - it's Chevy vs. Bentley
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-10-2011, 7:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Correct, the original post is asking only to compare wakes, to which I can't comment.

I just found it odd that he would be choosing between boats in two different price categories.

Should have been MC vs Tige, or,
MB vs Moomba.
88k out the door for an X2 vs under 60k for an RZR , both 20 feet similar options...
Tige is still way less expensive than any MC around here by almost 30 grand...
but we arent talking price. we're talking wake and its apples to apples with any boat in the size range, MB, CC, Tige, Malibu, Supra, Axis, Moomba...
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-10-2011, 3:59 PM Reply   
###
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
88k out the door for an X2 vs under 60k for an RZR , both 20 feet similar options...
Tige is still way less expensive than any MC around here by almost 30 grand...
but we aren’t talking price. we're talking wake and its apples to apples with any boat in the size range, MB, CC, Tige, Malibu, Supra, Axis, Moomba...
I can tell you an equally optioned rzr is not 28k less than an X2. I just priced these to boats along with an LSV out. Equally optioned RZR is around 80k With RZ2 tower and the bells and whistles equally optioned as the X2.

This thread is absurd. WOW I can't believe all the responses from people who have no experience with both brands. All they go off is hype and prices. People still think moombas are hunks of crap here. Anyone been in one since 2007. Most companies put out great boats with different emphasis on different points. If you ask me the biggest tub of crap on the water today is Axis. Yet you read all the hype and threads here about them you would never know.........why because the price is right and marketing has led the charge.


I have been in both the X Star not 2012 yet and an MB. Been in Ian’s a couple times and 2 of my riding crew each own one. The X-star wake is unique as is every other boats. Where everyone is getting its mellow I have no clue. It's all in how you weight it. Sure the 230 will have a bit more kick due to its steepness and hull shape, but and X Star wake is not mellow. The MB wake also has a bit more vert to it than the Star as well. So depends on what the op in looking for.


Now own to the useless info not geared towards his question.
MB vs MC boils down to name history, frills and accessories. NOT BUILD QUALITY
How many have been to both factories and taken tours? Anyone know exactly what sets MC, CC apart and makes them over the top?

Most companies use similar powerplants, gauges, vinyl, carpet, gelcoat. Unlike the car world there aren't many different mfg's of those previous stated components. Mastercraft has a huge pocketbook and a long running name. They have had their fair share of POS boats along the line. Their pro staff/ riders, R&D, pocketbook and cash flow is endless for the most part. They have the tour, advertising, the legacy and that stuff doesn’t run cheap.

You get things like pop up screens, Illmor pwerplants, billet, billet and more billet. They have the R&D cash to develop tons of new tools, gadgets, and hulls. They along with the other big 2 will always have this edge purely based on their legacy and cash flows associated with their names. Do they lead the way with innovations........in most cases yes and when the other smaller companies actually come up with great things they just don't have the marketing or advertising to get things out there.

Put an MB build next to an MC build in purely powerplants, vinyl, carpet, gauges(well I guess no longer gauges as were are talking computer screens these days) tranny's, ballast pumps, and gelcoat........ both are quality builds. Neither one is going to fall apart or be a pos. Mc has had all kinds of issues with their ballast systems and timers, spider cracks and tower sway to name a few. They are a nightmare to reprogram and trouble shoot. The reason for the 20k-30k price differences isn't because its 20-30k of build quality its because of the accessories, the bling, r&d and the WOW factor. Comparing MB's to MC as Ferraris and Mustangs is absolutely laughable. Not even close. To close this part out I will say this to get everyone going..........I think more attention is given to each MB build then to an MC build after touring both factories. Way more attention paid to each step in the MB factory.


I could pull up in a brand new MB and get a holy @#$ with a wow factor. Same with an MC however once my MC computerized dash popped up, my Illmor engine hatch popped up, and the billet Powertower functioned heads would spin around in circles. All those will set it apart for sure and that is what you get for spending more cash as you should. You get a few more stainless backing plates and reinforcements under the dash at certain points but overall the quality of the hull, powerplants, vinyl, and "boat necessity stuff" is similar.

If MB pulled the Pro Tour and had the amount of team riders MC had spewing how great the wake is and MC didn't we would all be bragging how great MB is. Mc doesn’t own the tour because it is hands down the best boat.......they own the tour because they shell out the most cash to buy and sponsor the event. Pros are paid to say "the boats wake is killer, its the biggest and baddest." They are getting a boat for free......they aren't going to say it sucks and they sure as hell aren't going to say that another rival's company's wake is just as huge. I would put a Supra 24V a CC230 an MB F23, a Moomba XLV a Tige RZ4 and a Bu 247 all right next to each other sacked out and all will kick up walls of water that will make peoples eyes buldge and be capable of pulling any pro tour. So guess what, daddy who wants his kid to go pro and compete on the tour is going to go to the dealer and buy his kid the boat the pros use. That’s the way it works. Or people who want to tell their friends they have what the pros have will do the same its all about status, not functionality and quality. It's gotta be the best cuz the pros use it and it has adds everywhere. Guess what it if was truly the best hands down no pro would ride anything but that boat right? Why settle if you are a pro?


Believe it or not, anyone in the industry of selling the top 3 knows how different their customers are that walk through the door than those of the other brands, at least here in the midwest region for sure. We are talking businessmen and people with pocket books, a good majority unresearched customers, there cuz a friend told them along with the Waterski Mags Buyers guide that this brand was the cream de la crem . A majority of the high priced boats are bought as family boats or because junior wants what the pros have. At the dealerships I have been affiliated with I would put it on a percentage of around 60 or so of buyers that walked into the MC or CC dealer and paid outright cash for the boats and never owned a previous model.......maybe even a bit more, however when I was the Centurion rep 80-90 percent financed their boats. Its a whole different mindset and attitude with buyers of each as well. I had the pleasure to work at a Centurion and CC dealer. 99.9% of the time I could tell walking through the door the Centurion customer Vs the CC customer. By no means am I saying one is better than the other or dogging on CC customers or big 3 customers, it was just apparent.

I have rambled and rambled. I am on a bunch of Norco and other meds just having shoulder reconstruction so it may be a rambled mess. I am just tired of hearing everyon chest bumping and spewing BS based on marketing and adds vs actual comparison. Almost every thread these days ends up being a bashing thread and guys with a brand new big 3 boat saying everything else is garbage.

If you ask me the 03 -2011 X Star is the most one dimensional boat on the market and I am actually surprised at how long it lasted. It purely lived off the name and hype. 03-5 I would argue a huge game changer however after that most companies had boats that could compete with the level of wake it was producing. THe only reason it is even considered the gold standard is because more people are paid to get it out there that it is. Simple as that. To me bling, gadgets and billet dont set the gold standard. Build quality and the components used do, and a good majority of mfg's are making quality built boats that can compete any day against each other if you took the bling, gadgets, and billet out. What you pay for these days is the innovation, gadgets, r&d, and team salaries. Some think its worth the extra cash others don't. Me I don't need the bling

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-10-2011 at 4:06 PM.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-10-2011, 5:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
###

I can tell you an equally optioned rzr is not 28k less than an X2. I just priced these to boats along with an LSV out. Equally optioned RZR is around 80k With RZ2 tower and the bells and whistles equally optioned as the X2.
Wow thats shocking, my dealers pricing is significantly lower than that 80k figure slight hijack aside I agree with what you've said 110%. good way to sum it up.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-10-2011, 5:31 AM Reply   
Apples to apples to all the idiot haters - Chris and Nick!


Y'all mad you're $40k light for the same product?
Old     (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-10-2011, 6:47 AM Reply   
This thread is interesting. It gives amazing insight into how much MB has come around to be a major player in the wakeboat industry.

In response to the OP, I've been behind both. My preference is the MB wake, since it gives you a nice kick off of the top. The stock wake is a very large foundation. I've always struggled with the X-Star wake because, as some have mentioned, it's very mellow and rampy. It takes a lot of extra ballast to build it up to my acceptable level and I really hate ballast bags all over the place. With the MC wake, I have to go balls out every time to get the pop to stick the tricks. With the MB, I don't have to be so agressive. This lets me concentrate more on form and doesn't tire me out so fast.

Now, if you ever have the desire to wakesurf, for me the MB wins, hands down. You can surf an XStar, but it takes a LOT of extra ballast. You can surf the stock ballast in an MB.

If money were no object, I would still get the MB and use the extra money saved to bling out the boat my own way.

BTW, I don't own either boat.
Old     (kskonn)      Join Date: Mar 2011       11-10-2011, 7:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuneman View Post
This thread is interesting. It gives amazing insight into how much MB has come around to be a major player in the wakeboat industry.

In response to the OP, I've been behind both. My preference is the MB wake, since it gives you a nice kick off of the top. The stock wake is a very large foundation. I've always struggled with the X-Star wake because, as some have mentioned, it's very mellow and rampy. It takes a lot of extra ballast to build it up to my acceptable level and I really hate ballast bags all over the place. With the MC wake, I have to go balls out every time to get the pop to stick the tricks. With the MB, I don't have to be so agressive. This lets me concentrate more on form and doesn't tire me out so fast.

Now, if you ever have the desire to wakesurf, for me the MB wins, hands down. You can surf an XStar, but it takes a LOT of extra ballast. You can surf the stock ballast in an MB.

If money were no object, I would still get the MB and use the extra money saved to bling out the boat my own way.

BTW, I don't own either boat.
I have not personally had that experience with the Xstar wakeboard wake, but the Xstar is a horrible boat to surf behind. Any honest MC dealer will tell you that the Xstar is for one thing and one thing only, wakeboarding. That is what my MC dealer told me, then they steared me towards an X2 with wake plate and surf tabs. The wake plate is nice, really lets you shape the wake.

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