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Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 11:29 AM Reply   
So I've been in like 50+ houses at this point.... Had my list of top 5/10 narrowed down and I saw a FSBO while just driving around (wasn't posted online)... thats how I missed it.

I am taking my 2nd walkthrough today with my Dad (realtor and master handyman) as well as his buddy (makes his living as an inspector and flips houses).

So the place is great to me:
3000 ft^2
4 bed
2.75 bath
2 car - two story garage (lots of storage on the second floor)
Nice yard
great neighborhood only .6 miles from the local University (rental potential)
New in 05' - 20x30 addition of a HUGE family/great room - gas fireplace added and new windows on 75% of house (other 25% are the windows that go into the 3-season porch)
new in 07 - appliances, roof, furnace, water heater, floors redone, house exterior painted

The place is beautiful but above my initial ballpark price range (this house is asking 145k).... but after my initial call to the owner (FSBO) he seems like he NEEEDS to sell this house.
- offered a lower price before I mentioned price at all
- has missed taxes for the last two years
- has another house and mortgage

My thoughts are the following on an offer:
Assessment = 133k
Average selling price in the last 12 months is 3% less than assessment ~130k... He also said he would NEED until January/Feburary to move out... but if we had a contract he said he would "RENT" the house from me with the time/rent being taken off of the final sale price.... I've ballparked the 4 months needed to around $4800 ($1200/mo. x 4 mo.) ... now we're at 125k
I am factoring in a dishwasher to be added, new fascia, bathroom finish on the main floor to be around 4k.... now I'm at ~120k

If I offer what I feel is fair (120k) and it is accepted, I will also be saving the 6-8% on realtor costs seeing as it is a FSBO... thats a win to me.

Seeing as this guy has been behind on taxes, is really getting hard up, what is a reasonable offer given the assessment, his situation, and items I feel "de-value" the assessment?


Even at 120k it is bar far the best "bang for the buck" I've seen and 100% move in ready which is nice.
House pictured below:
Front:

Old Living room to Dining room

New family room addition

Basement:

Family addition to the old living:
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-22-2011, 12:05 PM Reply   
Wish I could help, looks like a pretty good deal. That house would be over a million where I live! I guess you could either buy that or a new X-star!!!
Old     (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-22-2011, 12:26 PM Reply   
That would be 450-500 K here without direct access or pool. Buy it.
Old    SamIngram            09-22-2011, 12:31 PM Reply   
-Why would ever need a 3,000 SF house?
-Why are you so hung up on the assessment? This is a government authority, what do they know? Here in AZ, and in most other states that I have worked in the assessor doesn't know squat! If they did they wouldn't be working for the government.
-Many, many times when a homeowner is behind on payments, taxes, etc... they are actually more firm on their price because they have minimum that they have to pay in order to make the deal...
-You are not saving 6-8%, the seller is. Realtor fees are taken out of the seller's side of the settlement sheet.
-If they haven't paid their taxes in two years, what else haven't they paid? What type of deed are you going to get?

but IMO the biggest thing is why would you need a 3,000 sf house? That is 3,000 SF of house that you will have to heat, cool, maintain and pay taxes on.
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-22-2011, 12:52 PM Reply   
All you can do is make an offer that you can afford. Worst case, he rejects it. Work with him if you think you can stretch your budget, if not move on. Looks like a nice home, and i can understand buying a 3000 SF home if it's close to a college campus. College kids like to pile people in to make rent cheaper. Having the extra space would make it more rentable IMO. Looks like a winner, if you're happy with it and can settle on price with the current owner, do it.

Last edited by brett33; 09-22-2011 at 12:55 PM.
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-22-2011, 1:04 PM Reply   
Sounds like the gubmint might have a big ass lein on this house. And others may too. A realtor prob won't waste their time with it because of this. That's why it's a fsbo.
I would do some research on it 1st before you waste time and excitement on the purchase.
Either way , good luck. Looks like a killer house at a good price !
Old    SamIngram            09-22-2011, 1:06 PM Reply   
Have you ever rented to college kids? I have, and I got news for you:
1. College kids are very, very hard on houses, the more in the house, the more damage.
2. College kids are poor renters, they want/need a place to live for 9 months, not 12.
3. College kids require much more management. They often have roommates and when one can't pay guess what happens..
4. College kids generally don't make your neighbors happy with you. They are loud, often inconsiderate, have lots of cars and guests, and often piss off the neighbors.
I had six rentals within a mile of ASU and they were all a nightmare no matter what I did. Even when I hired a management company they cost me money...
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 1:11 PM Reply   
-Why would ever need a 3,000 SF house?
Rental Possibly.... and future family possibility. If I don't need to upgrade houses in 5-10 years because my "starter" home is nice and large, awesome. I looked into all of the WPS (Wisconsin Public Service) bill records and the average for gas/electric has been $250/mo. for the current owers (that is with 5 people in the house)... so my guess is by putting two in the house it will realistically drop to about $200/mo... which is about the exact some as other smaller places I have looked at. It is large but seems to be well insulated and new furnace/water heater are high efficiency.
-Why are you so hung up on the assessment? This is a government authority, what do they know? Here in AZ, and in most other states that I have worked in the assessor doesn't know squat! If they did they wouldn't be working for the government.
While the government may not know much, they set the benchmark.... its a leverage tool for my offer since they are above what they should be - according to public knowledge
-Many, many times when a homeowner is behind on payments, taxes, etc... they are actually more firm on their price because they have minimum that they have to pay in order to make the deal...
Generally I would agree with being solid on the minimum, but as I stated, the owner offered a lower price BEFORE I ever even mentioned price.... he has lived there for 15 years, so I can't imagine he is trying to get "just what he owes"
-You are not saving 6-8%, the seller is. Realtor fees are taken out of the seller's side of the settlement sheet.
I'm pretty sure using a realtor as a buyer would get a commission.
-If they haven't paid their taxes in two years, what else haven't they paid? What type of deed are you going to get?
This should be hashed out tonight when I meed with them as well as my realtor father, and family friend who makes his living buying/selling/renting homes./


Do I need 3000 ft^2... no.
Quote:
and i can understand buying a 3000 SF home if it's close to a college campus. College kids like to pile people in to make rent cheaper. Having the extra space would make it more rentable IMO.
Nailed it.... while its a first home I don't have a big family and don't need the space, but if the price is the same, why NOT have it for the future?! If I can grow into a house - great, if I can rent it easier because of the size/space - great.
It is close to elementry, middle, and high schools as well... the owner says his kids have walked to school since kindergarden without a single problem... I want kids someday, so it woul dbe nice to know kids could happen without having to worry about up-sizing the home.

Not the cost per ft^2 is a 100% solid figure to use when buying, it certainly makes it easier to lean towards/from a home... especially if the home is well done over all 3000 sq. ft.

I'm hoping my dad and his buddy will find "issues" with the home that are easy/no-bigges that I can factor into a price. My guess is assuming it all checks out my initial offer would be around 110k assuming for a counter.... I would be comfortable paying 120k for the home from what I have seen.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 1:15 PM Reply   
Have you ever rented to college kids? I have, and I got news for you:
1. College kids are very, very hard on houses, the more in the house, the more damage.
I would be living there with them, if I had renters. I have family going through the university now through the next 5 years... they would be my renters... I don't care about having a huge income property, more of having an extra room or two filled with family/friends who can allow me to put more towards the pricinple of my payment

2. College kids are poor renters, they want/need a place to live for 9 months, not 12.
I don't need renters, it would be icing on the cake .... see #1.

A lot of the houses I started looking at were 2 bed (1 bed and an office is more realistic) and 1 bathroom .... small, tight, and cozy. I couldn't throw a buddy or two in there, it just wouldn't work.... this place would allow for that.

3. College kids require much more management. They often have roommates and when one can't pay guess what happens..
I would be living there and it would be people I know, and know well

4. College kids generally don't make your neighbors happy with you. They are loud, often inconsiderate, have lots of cars and guests, and often piss off the neighbors.
Again... I have 5 solid years (assuming the wifey allows it) of cousins who would rent from me... not crazy random strangers.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 1:17 PM Reply   
Sam, did you happen to catch part1 or part2 ? It doesn't seem like you have any idea of my situation and/or end-game.
Old     (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       09-22-2011, 1:19 PM Reply   
Make sure he is willing to pay a buyers agent commission as FSBO usually doesn't like that and the fee would be paid by you to the realtor depending on the contract you have with him/her.
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-22-2011, 1:36 PM Reply   
ASU is in the top 20 "party schools" in the nation.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 1:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Make sure he is willing to pay a buyers agent commission as FSBO usually doesn't like that and the fee would be paid by you to the realtor depending on the contract you have with him/her.
Since my dad has been in real estate for 25+ years now, I would just have him draft all my paperwork and keep my protected while not paying him... because that is what dads do.

As long as we keep it Seller + Me + My Dad (free agent) we should be able to avoid those fees/costs
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 1:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
ASU is in the top 20 "party schools" in the nation.
UW-Stevens Point is a little more low key than a major university. the biggest plus is my family/family friends living within 60 mins of the place/university lots and lots of their kids that I know well will be going to school there... and most are torn between high campus rent and/or commuting to school. Where I would offer a room in a nice house for $250-$300 a month, no lease, no worries that would basically break even to the gas they would spend... it would be a no-brainer for them as well as for me.


I picture the renting situation (even for 1 cousin who loves to party) like this:
I can live in NICE house (not a college dump) for half the price of a college dump
My friends all live in college dump places 5/6 blocks away that I can go and party at
No lease, easy landlord, and it would be funished... all I need to bring are sheets, clothes, and my books... moving sucks something fierce
Old    SamIngram            09-22-2011, 1:50 PM Reply   
Sounds like you have it all figured out... I did catch parts 1 and 2 and commented in them both, thanks for paying attention... When it comes to real estate everyone has it figured out, that is why no one in this market is a distressed seller - because they figured it all out and it always works just like the figured!! My last word on is this; buy what you and only you can afford, don't rely on someone else. You are the one on the hook, not them. Also, by buying a house that you might be able to afford, but don't need, you are going to give something up in the future. That is called opportunity cost. I would suggest only buying the house that you need! Do it with a 15 year or less note. If you are doing well in the future, then buy another small house and rent it out, and keep on doing it. Don't put all your money in one house. You are much safer spreading your money over several houses versus putting it all in one. But then again, what do I know? I have $8 million in retail and timber properties in escrow and plan to double that in three months...

A buyer should NEVER pay a sales commission; even to a buyer's agent. The seller should always pay, even in a commercial transaction the seller pays. Generally a listing agent will list a property with a 5-8% commission. They will give the buyer's broker 3-4% of their commission either through co-operative agency, sub-agency, or through an MLS agreement. A buyer should not pay a buyer's agent 99% of the time. If an agent suggests this they are most likely violating their fiduciary responsibility to the buyer.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 2:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Also, by buying a house that you might be able to afford, but don't need, you are going to give something up in the future. That is called opportunity cost. I would suggest only buying the house that you need!
Assuming we settled on my top end price of 120k
My mortgage, taxes, pmi, bills, and insurance would come to $500 less than I am currently putting away for a house + gas every month.... so it would makes sense there. On top of the fact I am spending 2+ hours in my car every day driving (longer once snow falls).... on top of the fact I can/would sell my car for a civic something smaller and not as nice to make my 2.7 mile drive which would free up another $310/mo. in a car payment.

So moving to this place for 120k and selling my current car means the following:
$800/mo. saved
10+ hours a week save in driving times


EDIT: Not just this house - ANY HOUSE
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-22-2011, 2:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
"$800/mo. saved"
LOL, nobody can say it quite as well as someone who has never owned a house.

Unless that savings is after budgeting for a warchest full of home maintenance and repair money.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-22-2011, 2:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
You are much safer spreading your money over several houses versus putting it all in one.
I do not plan on being a landlord beyond friends and family. I do not want multiple maintenances.... I want one nice place I can be happy to go home to (that doesn't take me 60+ mins to get there either)
Old    SamIngram            09-22-2011, 3:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
I do not plan on being a landlord beyond friends and family. I do not want multiple maintenances.... I want one nice place I can be happy to go home to (that doesn't take me 60+ mins to get there either)
I lied...

of course you could always use the "extra" money to buy a cabin in the woods, a new car, a new boat, go back to school, early retirement, start a family, etc... that is the opportunity cost...
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       09-22-2011, 3:20 PM Reply   
One thing to keep in mind, is the renters living with you, while you are a newlywed.
Nothing like a bunch of teen/early twentysomethings hanging around the house while you and your new bride want nothing more than some peace and quiet, while you are learning to be a good husband/wife.

Sam actually has some good advice. I wished i had spread my money more into other real estate options when i had the chance.
And the others made points of additional maintenence costs. Something ALWAYS needs to be fixed, replaced, etc when you are a homeowner. These are additional costs that you will never figure in to your month to month costs.

With that said, it does sound like you have done your research, and seem to have a good head on your shoulders, so i think you will be ok whichever direction you go in with home ownership. Just like getting the keys to your first boat, that first night sleeping in YOUR home is a pretty awesome feeling. Biggest purchase you can make, pretty much anyways.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-22-2011, 4:17 PM Reply   
I dont think having renters/family living with you during the initial marriage stage is a wise decision. Just my 2 cents from myself & several friends. Talk about added stress/interference to u and ur wifes privacy. I just picture "you me & dupree" lol

Looks like a killer house for the price. Just a bit large for only 2 young people starting their life together.

And the above posters r right...buyer doesnt pay the realtor commission.

Good luck though!
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-22-2011, 5:35 PM Reply   
Sam is making some very good points here. Assesment has no direct connection to price... as in none. College kids are the worst tenants. I own many rentals in southern calif. and have 24 years experience as a slumlord. Other than that, house seems cool.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 6:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
One thing to keep in mind, is the renters living with you, while you are a newlywed.
Quote:
dont think having renters/family living with you during the initial marriage stage is a wise decision.
Wedding won't be until Sept. 2013... so there is 1-2 years that I was planning on this until we were actually married and she said "NO"

Quote:
Something ALWAYS needs to be fixed, replaced, etc when you are a homeowner. These are additional costs that you will never figure in to your month to month costs.
I guess thats what I figure the ~$800 a month in savings could go to, along with the money I am putting away that currently goes to nothing but my savings.


When I break it down in my head here is would I would love:
I do NOT want to change my lifestyle even a little bit (as far as saving/spending/fun)
I DO want to cut out my 120 min a day commute
I DO want to cut out spending $250+/mo. in gas and the miles I'm putting on the car hurt the resale pretty badly.
I DO want a house I am happy to call home
I DO want to be able to offer a place to my cousins for the next few years if they need a place (their dad is in a reaaaallly tough financial situation and an ugly divorce and having 3 kids in college doesn't help - if I could offer an affordable option for their housing, its a win win... until wifey says no more)
I do NOT want to be come a professional landlord
I do NOT want to rent


Quote:
of course you could always use the "extra" money to buy a cabin in the woods, a new car, a new boat, go back to school, early retirement, start a family, etc...
I totally understand your logic here but I guess its really the first (and most likely the last) time in my life where I am totally 100% happy with what I've got going.

Again, I don't want to change my lifestyle/saving so here is sort of my current breakdown:

$1200/mo. to a savings account for downpayment/wedding
$310/mo. to car payment (which I would like to cut out - don't neeeeed to, but would like to)
$190/mo. for school loans (only about $5k left to go)
~$400 month to savings for whatever
$500 months to my checking for live/work/play money
$200/mo. for my "bills" of directtv, internet, and cell phone
13% to 401k (+5% match from work)
My total debt right now is approx. 9k between school loans and car loan (car loan is through my mom's boyfriend @ 1.5% - not a bank)

I have a nice boat - Supersport nautique loaded down (and paid for)
I have a nice car, newer lexus IS250
I have a "cabin" at the lake - my mom's house is right on the water, where we store the boat .... she rarely stays there anymore (moved in with boyfriend)
I am currently "going back to school" -- work is picking up the tab on that one
... while I'm not preparing to start a family - because good lord I am WAY WAY to selfish for kids at this point.... sure there is always a whoopsie-baby but I do have some savings.


I don't want to sound like I am boasting or anything... but I think at 23 I'm pretty well set and the only real thing I feel I am missing is 10-12 hours a week stuck in a car. I think with the current housing market (buyer's advantage), sub 4% interest rate, and rock solid job in a city that isn't going to to die (university and other very large/strong businesses - some local cities only survive because of paper-mills, which are getting shut down left and right and the town dies with it).... I think it might be foolish to NOT make a purchase.
Old     (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-23-2011, 10:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
I don't want to sound like I am boasting or anything... but I think at 23 I'm pretty well set and the only real thing I feel I am missing is 10-12 hours a week stuck in a car. I think with the current housing market (buyer's advantage), sub 4% interest rate, and rock solid job in a city that isn't going to to die (university and other very large/strong businesses - some local cities only survive because of paper-mills, which are getting shut down left and right and the town dies with it).... I think it might be foolish to NOT make a purchase.
I agree your situation is pretty good and it's definitely a good time to buy...why not look for a lakefront place?? i'm sure you already know that a 30 second walk to your boat is much better than a 1 hour drive...weeknight evening sets with the lake all to yourself...i'm just sayin...
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       09-23-2011, 6:43 AM Reply   
There's alwasy a BBD ( bigger better deal) ; enjoy being married for a while, listen to the "old" guys...rent a while, throw the roomate idea out the window. Enjoy yourself and your wife for a bit. Take some vacations, blow some money on each other. What's the rush?
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 6:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Take some vacations, blow some money on each other. What's the rush?
Oh that happening... most is, me blowing money on myself.

The rush for me is, am I ever going to have the market/rates favor me this much for the rest of my life?!
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 7:16 AM Reply   
Update on the house above:

Took the walk-through with my dad and his friend last night. House is better than picture as far is interior/exterior look.
Pros:
100% move-in ready
All mechanicals in great shape (furnace, water heater, appliances, etc)
Floors were just refinished and are surprisingly straight for such an older home (so many have wavey floors)
Great-room addition is beautiful and extremely well done
Yard is nice sized
Large garage
Basement is 100% finished with 7.5' ceiling (rare on older home)
Quiet street with nice neighbors (met two while there)
Foundation in great shape

Cons:
The "new" windows they replaced/added are still all single pane (what the hell were they thinking?!) even though they do match the original style windows of the house
Original plaster ceiling in 50% of 2nd level (other 50% drywall) which I can't imagine will last much longer (no cracks visible though)
the 3rd bathroom that was mentioned isn't even close to finished - they have the studs/roughed in walls and plumming there... but thats it, studs, plywood floor, and look right up to insulation (which is newer and 12" thick - thats a plus) .... house still has two full bathrooms though
4th bedroom would never work as a bedroom (would be a perfect walk-in-closet though)
Needs aluminum soffet ( -$1000 from price)
2nd level of home still has some old wiring (two of the bedrooms only have 2 outlets in them - NOT grounded)


.... on after the walkthrough the seller outright said - I NEED THIS HOUSE GONE, I HAVE NO MONEY AT ALL.... so he didn't even try and hide the desperation, which seemed really odd to me. He has another house that he has been planning to move to once it was finished (they gutted it) and he basiacally said he cannot finished the house until this sells, he has ZERO dollars to put into the other one.... at which point he said if we closed quickly he would "rent" the house back from me for 3-4 months while they moved/finished the other home. So assuming we close on Oct 17th - he would rent for 3.5 months with my move in scheduled for Feb 1st .... 3.5 months of rent on a similar home in the area would easily be $1600/mo. ..... so 3.5 months @ $1600/mo. = $5600 back to my pocket after the sale. Sort of sweetens the deal (assuming they don't turn the place to ****)

My dad (appraisor license + broker) has a pretty good idea of what stuff is worth.... he said given what he say, the assessment, FMV, and similar homes the house is certainly worth 130k in a "normal market".... he also said given the guy's situation he wouldn't offer a dime over 115k.
his breakdown was:
130k - walk away
120k offer- worth thinking about and re-work the deal after a real home inspection
110k offer - good deal

.... another big plus is the fiance' has a job interview at a business that would be 3.3 miles from the house, so if that worked out, we would be golden.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-23-2011, 7:29 AM Reply   
I didn't read through all this, so forgive me if it has already been addressed. When you close the sale at a title company, you will get clear title. Any liens or back taxes will come out of the buyers side to clear or the transaction won't happen.

Looks like a really nice house.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
When you close the sale at a title company, you will get clear title. Any liens or back taxes will come out of the buyers side to clear or the transaction won't happen.
My dad is looking into this for me today since they have been late/not paid taxes in 09' and 10'..... I certainly won't be paying their back-taxes.... or every dime they owe + 15% will be coming off the sale price.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-23-2011, 8:26 AM Reply   
You won't have to. It comes off the sellers side of the HUD. Just hope he has enough equity to payoff the taxes and his mortgage with the sale, or there won't be one.
Old    SamIngram            09-23-2011, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
You won't have to. It comes off the sellers side of the HUD. Just hope he has enough equity to payoff the taxes and his mortgage with the sale, or there won't be one.
It depends on what kind of deed is issued. The house could come with all sorts of liens that could carry over to the new owner, it entirely depends on the deed. Either way, get the extended Title Insurance Policy, it is worth it, and has saved my butt several times.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-23-2011, 10:06 AM Reply   
Insured closings and title work insure the deed is transfered free of liens. You cannot get a mortgage on a house if liens are not properly cleared at closing. If there are liens that cannot be cleared, the title company will not close the transaction that gaurantees first lien position to the bank.
Old    SamIngram            09-23-2011, 11:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Insured closings and title work insure the deed is transfered free of liens. You cannot get a mortgage on a house if liens are not properly cleared at closing. If there are liens that cannot be cleared, the title company will not close the transaction that gaurantees first lien position to the bank.
BS...
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-23-2011, 11:07 AM Reply   
forget the house, buy the new star!
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-23-2011, 11:19 AM Reply   
^^ +1 just sleep in it... the seat folds into a bed!!
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 11:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
why not look for a lakefront place?? i'm sure you already know that a 30 second walk to your boat is much better than a 1 hour drive...weeknight evening sets with the lake all to yourself...i'm just sayin...
My current living arrangement ... and honestly living right on the water = less wakeboarding because you get too damn picky. Its just too easy to say, "nah, I'll just ride tomorrow its windy." BTW the house/view below is for sale to me from my mother, but I hate hate hate the drive and the taxes are KILLER


Quote:
forget the house, buy the new star!
I've never been much of an MC man... I would roll the dice and go Epic
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       09-23-2011, 12:31 PM Reply   
Beware the utility bills for an older 3000 sf home. Otherwise looks really nice.
Old     (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-23-2011, 12:32 PM Reply   
the backyard of my first/current house...12 minute commute to work...not trying to brag, just saying it's possible (should be possible with all the lakes in WI)...and living on the lake = less riding is crazy talk...you can sit on the back deck and have a beer with your wife after dinner...glassy at 9 PM in the summer...5 minutes later you're riding...jusy sayin...
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Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 12:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
glassy at 9 PM in the summer...5 minutes later you're riding...jusy sayin...
Our lake has a no wake ban after 8 pm and before 10 am
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-23-2011, 2:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
Our lake has a no wake ban after 8 pm and before 10 am
Pretty much makes lake unusable for riding then. I wouldn't even consider buying it from her being as that's the case. I do most of my riding between 7 AM and 10 AM... But I don't live on the water.

I will say thanks to Nick for starting these threads, and everyone else for contributing. I'm looking for my first house and all the information is very helpful. I wish prices were that low here. There are a few deals, but so much junk. People think houses with all sorts of issues are made of gold. Or, being the property taxes here, an awesome house for a good price but taxes would be twice the mortgage.

What complicates the situation is I'm looking for a job down south and would buy lakefront down there in a heartbeat, but with the job market like it is I'm not holding my breathe for that to happen any time soon so may as well settle in here for a while.
Old     (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-23-2011, 12:50 PM Reply   
yeah, that is why you buy your own lake house w/o those kinds of restrictions
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 1:09 PM Reply   
No sense in spending the money to me when I will have access to one... I would rather have other things at this point in life.
Old     (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-23-2011, 1:16 PM Reply   
yeah man, that's cool. just bored at work on a friday (obviously you are too) and figured i'd give you my 2 cents.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-23-2011, 1:27 PM Reply   
Besides how long can wakeboard season run in WI?lol a few mos of board shorts
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-23-2011, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
the property taxes here, an awesome house for a good price but taxes would be twice the mortgage.
Thats the biggest issue for looking into my mom's lakefront house - 9k in taxes for a house that isn't a mansion is crazy to me.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-27-2011, 7:54 AM Reply   
Seems like you are over thinking this whole thing.. If you like the house, it fits your budget and you feel like the value is there to you and the appraiser/lender agree, buy it. You've got all of these ****ing spreadsheets and calculations and XYZ savings and XYZ costs.. I'm a financial analyst and a home onwer. I do this **** 50 hours a week.

But I can absolutely ****ing ASSURE you that in 1 year from the day you close - you're not going to be sitting around looking at your ****ing spreadsheets and looking at your ratios and all of that ****.. You have to love the house, want to make it a home, since its older you must be interested in doing the "dirty work" and you must be able to afford it.. All of this anlaysis and bull**** is wasted breathe. Do you love the house and is it a price you can afford now and in the future? Will you love the house still in 2 years? 5 years? If yes to all, buy it and quit nickle diming every ****ing repair and every thing you see a problem with.. "Oh - it needs soffets - automatic 1k off asking price" - you sound like a *** doing all of this.. find a price you like, see if the seller likes it, make sure you get a clean lien/title (secure closing) and buy the ****ing house..

None of this crap you've over thinkign will matter once its yours. You're not going to be doing quantiative analysis on your utility bills after youv'e owned that place for 3 years. You'll just pay the damn bill.

and for ****s sake will you quit talking about having roomates while you are a newlywed?
Old    SamIngram            09-27-2011, 9:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post

None of this crap you've over thinkign will matter once its yours. You're not going to be doing quantiative analysis on your utility bills after youv'e owned that place for 3 years. You'll just pay the damn bill.
Unless, of course, he just can't ****ing pay them and ends up losing the house and on the ****ing street, because he didn't do any ****ing analysis. I really, really LOVE the big house on the hill with the 20 car garage, indoor pool, and indoor shooting range, but in the end I can't ****ing buy it because I can't ****ing afford it... I also do this 50 ****ing hours a week, probably more.

About the only thing that took from that post was something that about 95% of buyers, sellers, and appraisers miss.... don't just do a quantitative analysis, do the qualitative analysis too. It better represents the marketplace vs. the quantitative analysis.

From The Appraisal of Real Estate

page 307

Qualitative Analysis - In the sales comparison approach the process of accounting for differences between comparables that are not quantified; usually follows quantitative adjustment.

If you rationalize your offer to the seller using both techniques you will do better. First use a dollar figure to account for the things that need fixed. Then apply qualitative adjustments to further show the seller why you are offering what you are offering. Compare other properties to the house you are buying, what are your other opportunities? Don't compare entire houses, but individual characteristics. I use this technique on almost every timber purchase I do and almost always get the property for my price... usually very, very low.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2011, 8:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
you sound like a *** doing all of this.. find a price you like, see if the seller likes it, make sure you get a clean lien/title (secure closing) and buy the ****ing house..
Since I am dealing directly with the seller I need some reasoning behind an offer.... If I throw out 75k (50% of asking) he is going to say "Why in the hell is that your number ?!" .... I want some logic/reasoning behind a lowball to make it seem less like a lowball.

Quote:
and for ****s sake will you quit talking about having roomates while you are a newlywed?
For ****s sake will you read and understand I won't be married for 2 years....plenty of time to have someone stay with me... She has often brought up the idea of having her sister live with us too (who I get along great with - probably better than my fiance' ).... she has suggested roomies as well, so I will absoultely keep bringing it up.

Quote:
You're not going to be doing quantiative analysis on your utility bills after youv'e owned that place for 3 years.
I think anyone who refinances their home, changes cell phone carriers, insurance companies, looks into changing T/Internet services - THOSE PEOPLE ARE doing analysis.... and honestly if you don't look at it annually I think you're paying too much... things are always changing.
... also since it is a first home, I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THIS SITUATION, I would like to be sure I am able to afford all aspects of ownership and am ready for all the bills I've never had before..... putting it on a spreadsheet and looking at it in terms of dollars/payments/etc makes it far easier to picture than just saying, "Oh Gee Whiz I've got a cable bill now...."


someone **** in your coffee this morning?
Old     (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-27-2011, 8:50 AM Reply   
Wow Jeff, why so many 4 letter words? I think everyone can get your point without them. Just saying....
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2011, 9:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
you rationalize your offer to the seller using both techniques you will do better.
That is my logic too.

If he is asking 140k and I offer 115k, he laughs.

If I offer 115k because:
140k - this - that - those - these - XX - XXX = 115k, then he gets it.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-27-2011, 11:31 AM Reply   
Oh yay - 2 Negative Nancy Know It Alls..

I remember now why I didn't post.. Good luck..

Sorry I cuss too much for you "Sam".. Thought this was adults talking about buying a house. Go **** yourself.
Old    SamIngram            09-27-2011, 11:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Oh yay - 2 Negative Nancy Know It Alls..

I remember now why I didn't post.. Good luck..

Sorry I cuss too much for you "Sam".. Thought this was adults talking about buying a house. Go **** yourself.
Are you saying that is how ****ing "adults" talk? The only time I would go to the trouble to type words like that is when I'm trying to be sarcastic and make fun of someone who obviously lacks the vocabulary to properly express their opinions otherwise. I wouldn't even talk like that at the bar or out in the woods logging, let alone type it in a forum. What is the point?

Have a great day...



You are one hard dude...

Last edited by SamIngram; 09-27-2011 at 11:51 AM.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2011, 11:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Oh yay - 2 Negative Nancy Know It Alls..

I remember now why I didn't post.. Good luck..

Sorry I cuss too much for you "Sam".. Thought this was adults talking about buying a house. Go **** yourself.
You type a message, all I can picture in my head is Joe Pesci yelling and going crazy.... you're an electronic Joe Pesci.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-27-2011, 2:03 PM Reply   
surprise - the douches are douching.

enjoy your spreadsheets in 2 years when you and your wife are living with your 2 bros.

I'll keep gangbanging as the white 30 year old married father corprate finance guy.. sorry I cussed and hurt your feelings.

****ing pussy
Old    SamIngram            09-27-2011, 2:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
surprise - the douches are douching.

enjoy your spreadsheets in 2 years when you and your wife are living with your 2 bros.

I'll keep gangbanging as the white 30 year old married father corprate finance guy.. sorry I cussed and hurt your feelings.

****ing pussy
Is that how you talk in your corporate world? I bet you're makin' some fat stacks with the man talkin' like that with your homies in the board room...

You should get this tattooed on your forehead...

Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2011, 2:25 PM Reply   
Jeff, is it all out of your system? I would rather you just stay away from this thread please, if you're not helping (which you're not if you didn't know) you're just wasting everyone's time with this crap

....anyways.....

So I had called/emailed the seller about liens on the house and he isn't taking my calls (always has in the past) and only has responsed to one email (usually very quick response) about it recently and was verrrry vague... think something fishy is behind that or doesn't like admitting that he is in much deeper than he thought?
Old    SamIngram            09-27-2011, 2:40 PM Reply   
I wouldn't ask about the loans, that is none of your business in my opinion. What you should be asking about is CLEAR TITLE and what kind of deed you will be getting. Beyond that you should make sure that an extended title policy is available.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2011, 2:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
I wouldn't ask about the loans, that is none of your business in my opinion.
I didn't ask specifics... just if there were any, no $$$ amounts. Since has been behind on his taxes I assume there is at least that, I would also guess he has a mortgage, and who knows what else (child support etc etc).... just wanted to get a sense of the situation. My bank asked me and I called a title company but they won't say anything unless I cough up $500 (called two places)... I would hate to pay it at this point in the process.
Old    SamIngram            09-27-2011, 3:11 PM Reply   
Ask for a preliminary title report... You should always approach real estate negotiations with the "Win-Win" idea and never, ever, put the sell on the spot or make them look bad. IMO you asked the wrong question, don't ask about their financial situation. Your bank also shouldn't be asking those questions, it is none of their business. I can't remember, are you in a mortgage or deed of trust state? Either way, if you are borrowing money the bank wants to make sure they are in first position... but all that is just silly to even talk about if you are getting clear title. Don't let your bank steer the conversation...
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-27-2011, 3:32 PM Reply   
I guess this is why you sometimes just use an experienced realtor - you just make your offer and go from there. It's probably the best/safest thing to do for someone who has never bought/sold or has any experience with real estate. If the seller doesn't want one, that's his business, but you can always put in the contract that he pays the commission on yours and can negotiate that and everything else from there.
Old    SamIngram            09-27-2011, 3:36 PM Reply   
I just can't figure out why your dad isn't doing this stuff... or at least helping you...

A professional is generally educated... an education is usually expensive no matter where it is learned from, either in school or in actual business, you pay either way for your education.

BTW, you shouldn't be calling title companies about the property yet... figure out a purchase price and terns AND then open escrow...
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-27-2011, 4:09 PM Reply   
Most sellers would expect you to check out the house, ask whatever questions about the house and maybe neighborhood and then at some point either make an offer or go away. He's probably annoyed at this point. I would be.
Old     (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-27-2011, 4:25 PM Reply   
Sam is right about price & terms first. A good rule of purchasing real estate, whether commercial or residential, is tie the property up first under contract - that is, agree to a purchase price & get control - then do your due diligence. 'Without the property under your control, you are wasting your time. You are asking questions and investigating things that are down the list from priority 1 which is successfully negotiate a price and contract. Anything that doesn't deal with that, worry about later. That's what the contingency period is for.

If your dad's not going to guide you through the basic process, you'd be doing your self well to go find a broker you like and pay him yourself to guide you. It will be worth the couple of grand in time and higher probability of success alone. Jeff Wadholm (and maybe some others on WW) will be totally nuts if you run this whole transaction through WakeWorld.

Last edited by ottog1979; 09-27-2011 at 4:28 PM.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-27-2011, 7:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
I just can't figure out why your dad isn't doing this stuff... or at least helping you...
He is sort of out of contact. Has been for like about 6 days and will be for another 6-10 -- he took his hot rod to some lake he has in the U.P.... and then up and around Lake Superior and 99% of the time has his phone off.... took the trip to get away. He had it planned before this house came about, so I am trying to get some of fact checking done before he gets back...

I don't plan on the house moving anytime soon, the seller mentioned he has been trying for 2 years (makes me think there is some big issue he isn't fessing up on).... So hopefully early October I'll be able to make serious progress.
Old     (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       09-27-2011, 8:33 PM Reply   
Nick, I don't think you can get annoyed with people like Jeff posting in your threads when you draw these things out so freaking long! What is this, you're third thread on the topic of buying a house? You're like the Tige Robert of house buying. I don't mean to break your balls, but if you're dad is such a real estate expert, stick with him and wait until he gets back or maybe you should have gotten the info from him before he left.

I'm all for getting information from WakeWorld, as there are a lot of people with great experiences, but come on man, we don't need to know how much you spent in gas to go look at home number 3,890,987,451 on your list.

If you like a house, go buy it. In 3 months you're going to see a house that you think is a better deal that makes you believe you got screwed no matter how cheap of price you negotiate, so as they say, s#it or get off the pot man!

I usually come here for the first opinion or to get some ideas on something I'm buying, but then I make an educated decision. It's almost like you can't make a decision unless Sam (or insert another poster here) says it's ok. Hell, for all any of us know, Sam could be running a snow cone stand in Anchorage.

As many have said before, find something you like, negotiate a price you are comfortable with and buy the freakin house!

Rant off....
Old    SamIngram            09-28-2011, 10:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstateskier View Post
Hell, for all any of us know, Sam could be running a snow cone stand in Anchorage.
I'm really in the unassembled snowmen sales business...

Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-28-2011, 6:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
usually come here for the first opinion or to get some ideas on something I'm buying, but then I make an educated decision. It's almost like you can't make a decision unless Sam (or insert another poster here) says it's ok. Hell, for all any of us know, Sam could be running a snow cone stand in Anchorage.
I totally agree, wakeworld is an amazing pool of knowledge fed by 50% trolls. I take all the info here with a grain of salt.... the end game for me pestering everyone for info is to put my mind at ease if nothing else.... make sure my logic isn't bat sh*t crazy. I'm a young "know it all kid" who is totally new to this sort of thing and trying to balance my needs/wants in a hope, the fiance's needs/wants, and my fathers practical "old man" advice and wisdom is tough. Its like I'm home shopping with a little Angel and Devil on my shoulders (which is which - father/fiance is sometimes hard to tell).....

I really just wanted to be confirmed in my logic of pricing and the way in which to deal with a seller in near foreclosure (my dad's real estate company is in an area where 90% of what is sold is 2nd/3rd homes in a vacation town, so foreclosures just don't happen.... people have the means and in my 23 years have never seen any go belly up.... Its millionare selling to multi-millionare, that is his skills are..... not almost broke guy in urban/college town selling to young kid... I would think the rules change a bit.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-28-2011, 7:01 AM Reply   
does your local county recorder have a website where you can see what's recorded against the seller's property? That'd give you the quick and dirty thumbnail sketch of what he's facing in addition to the unpaid taxes (but might not reveal every lien, which is why title ins. is also important).
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-29-2011, 8:24 AM Reply   
As I have said before. You are waisting your time worrying about liens and taxes. That gets shaken out at closing with the title company. You offer X amount. If he accepts, it will be X-mortgage/liens-taxes-sellers portion of closing= Sellers net. If their are liens on the property and the Seller is going to net a negative amount(ie needs $ to close) and he can't produce it, the sale won't take place.

You can ask the seller all you want, but you will get annoying. He is looking for a contract. He obviously knows what he has to sell the home at to let it go. Once you get the contract, you can do your home inspections and negotiate from there.
Old     (alexmor)      Join Date: Dec 2013       12-18-2013, 5:57 AM Reply   
Most “rent-or-buy” comparison articles one sees are not practical, leave out numerous hidden costs of getting houses, and are usually outright real estate market propaganda, if not out and out lies. However, at least one, oddly enough from a real estate business, has been introduced that's this side of honest.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-18-2013, 2:29 PM Reply   
Reviving an oldie.... holy smokes.

I ended up moving to Minneapolis, rented for 8 months then about 5 months ago bought a condo.... so far so awesome!
Old     (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-19-2013, 4:27 AM Reply   
the "rent-or-buy" coment is just a spammer. Signed up yesterday with 1 post total linking to some lame blog.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-19-2013, 8:19 AM Reply   
Bastard.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-19-2013, 9:13 AM Reply   
Also make sure on that addition it was permitted. That may bite you down the line.

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