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Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-16-2010, 4:12 PM Reply   
This is so creepy, shameful, slimy and disgusting, it would be funny if I was sure they weren't going to get away with it. I know this "trick" has been used before and that's just as wrong because it completely violates the spirit of how things our supposed to work in our government. The funniest part is that everyone is up in arms about the recent Supreme Court decision allowing corporations to spend without limits on elections, but look at the result of of the previous policy...a Congress full of slimy pieces of crap!!

Democrats defended plans to push massive health care legislation through the House without a direct vote and Republicans assailed the strategy Tuesday, as both parties fenced ferociously over the health overhaul end game.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said that no final decision had been made on the complex parliamentary strategy, which would allow House Democrats to pass the Senate's health care legislation without voting on the bill itself. Instead House members, who dislike the Senate bill, would vote on a rule for debate that would deem the bill passed once a smaller package of fixes also had passed.
Old     (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-16-2010, 7:17 PM Reply   
This is what happens with one party rule. Make sure you remember in November.
Old     (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-16-2010, 7:18 PM Reply   
I think that you have championed terms limits in the past. That gets at the root of this issue. As always they are trying to buy votes in an election year...

I am all form healthcare reform of some kind, just not this kind. How any HC reform can be passed without tort reform is beyond me.
Old     (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       03-16-2010, 9:35 PM Reply   
i will remember, because I remebmer the bush era one party system. Bills passed with reconsilation. You remember too, right. SO I WILL BE VOTING DEM.....
Old     (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-17-2010, 7:11 AM Reply   
Colorado Wake
Obviously you don't remember the Bush administration. What I said is one party rule doesn't work.
Hold your noise, plug your ears and close your eyes and keep voting the thieves back in. This is just the start of things to come. Gridlock is the only answer when the government says they are helping the only one they help is them self.

Remember in November.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-17-2010, 7:41 AM Reply   
Yes, in November remember to vote for the party that's obstructing all progress to get anything done. Don't forget to pledge allegiance to your party.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-17-2010, 7:45 AM Reply   
All we're trying to do is clog the drain.
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-17-2010, 7:48 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Yes, in November remember to vote for the party that's obstructing all progress to get anything done. Don't forget to pledge allegiance to your party.

Yeah...exactly! Remember to vote for the party who is trying to save the US from socialism and a healthcare bill that will bankrupt our country. John read this article posted below, scroll down and read the comments by the users. Notice the staggering amount of comments by people opposed to this bill. Do you really think the Republicans are trying to obstruct things being done? Common sense would tell you they're trying to stop a bill that the American people CLEARLY do not want
Old     (jyoungusa)      Join Date: Sep 2009       03-17-2010, 7:52 AM Reply   
Who are the obstructionist, the Dems control the whole shooting match - Nancy hasn't called a vote yet becuase she cant win....Let us not forget that the majority of Americans do not want THIS healthcare bill passed. Not saying that don't want A healthcare bill just not THIS one.

The President and Congress needs to go back to the drawing board and put together a bill which takes smaller bites, reduces costs and doesn't put us further in debt to the Chinese. Spending is out of control and the knuckleheads in the beltway haven't figured out that someone eventually has to pay.

and while you are remembering in November - start saving your money, because the middle class is going to pay for this too - directly through higher taxes and indirectly through higher costs for goods and services.
Old     (admin)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-17-2010, 9:03 AM Reply   
What a total joke to say that Republicans are being obstructionists. Dems had more than a year to pass whatever they wanted because they had their majority, but they couldn't even sell their own party on the snake oil they were pedeling. It's so funny that people buy that ridiculous line. Whatever makes you feel good I guess.

That being said, I'll take obstruction from either party right now. I definitely think that doing nothing is going to leave us better off than the "something" the current idiots in charge are coming up with. Term limits, baby. Term limits!
Old     (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-20-2010, 1:03 PM Reply   
I think what bothers me most is that no matter what the outcome, Americans as a whole could care less. I don't think the average American cares one way or the other because they have no clue as to what is going on. Ask 10 people to describe Obamacare and you will get 10 completely different descriptions.

It might be unpopular to say, but Obama won the election because it became the popular thing to do. He was not the most experienced nor did he have the best resume. And no matter how bad things get jacked up, no matter how much American debt is accumulated, no matter how socialized our nation becomes......the fickle, forgetful, lazy American people will vote these clowns back into office. I have by and large given up on our political system. This president has bold faced lied to us about lobby reform and transparency. TRANSPARENCY, they are pushing a bill that no one, including them, has a clue what is in it.

I guess i am just more upset about the lack of will exhibited by most Americans to get involved, educate themselves and understand what is taking place in our political system. Dave said it's sleezy, shameful and disgusting...but by and large Americans will not care.
Old    deltahoosier            03-20-2010, 1:19 PM Reply   
I have been looking into more articles from the Massachusetts health care. Some say it is successful but are talking about the rising costs and the increasing underemployed putting a strain on the system. Others are calling it a failure.

The biggest theme I keep seeing and I have already talked about it, is the rising costs of service. They are now trying to get doctors to agree to stop asking for tests that the doctors want to give because they feel the doctors are ordering tests to make money but are not wanting the doctors to agree to a set cost for a years worth of treatment of a patient the that patients needs in a hope that the doctor will not order tests for the patient because the doctor is on a fixed cost. And that is from an article that was pro health care saying it was successful. I told you that is the only way for a health care system to keep costs under control. The payer of the insurance is not going to matter. Only way for them to stay in budget is to get doctors to cut services or they raise co payments so high that it limits people from going to the doctor meaning limiting usage (AKA France and it's 25% co-pay). The reason many people have this huge insurance costs is they have plans with low co-payments.

The other side of the coin they are not talking about is the higher unemployment. Now the whole country is being hit in general but I bet any amount of money that many businesses cut workers back to the minimum so they don't get fined for being over so many employees and not offering insurance. The Mass plan saying employers of so many employees have to offer insurance or get fined.

At the end of the day their is no magic bullet for this.
Old     (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-20-2010, 1:22 PM Reply   
Going back to the issue of obesity and healthcare... It's true that obesity is a huge factor in American's health and healthcare costs. It's also true that studies on Wellness programs have been shown time and time again to lower healthcare costs, and to an even greater degree losses of productivity due to health reasons.

However, that chart that compares obesity rates in various countries does so by using Body Mass Index (BMI). The BMI table was developed in the 1950's and hasn't been updated since. It does not take into account lean muscle mass or differences in body composition. According to the BMI table, virtually any athlete that's not a swimmer or distance runner is obese.

It's no surprise that Japan and Korea have the lowest BMI but after living there, I wouldn't call them more fit than Americans.
Old     (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-26-2010, 3:28 PM Reply   
I can only say that I have not felt this bad since 9-11. I see Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the other voting democrats, as nothing more than domestic terrorists. What else could it be called when your country is in shambles, already broke, in debt up to it's eyeballs, and you decide to futher cut your country's throat with more taxes in the name of healthcare. It is clear they have no desire, but to make history any way they can, even if it is being part of the regime that completely and utterly ruined the greatest nation on earth. In comparision, this is like me going out, buying a Ferrari, buying a mansion, and then taking a trip around the world and thinking that my average check is going to pay for it. At that point, based on the recent events, I would deserve a bailout.

I'll admit that I have read other posts that really made me think and appreciate my insurance. I'll also admit that something should be done. However, it should not be to the degree that is being rammed down the taxpayers throats and expected to simply pay more taxes. I honestly cannot imagine my taxes being worse than they are already. I also cannot imagine the further jobless this healthcare plan will cause. There is a reason that healthcare has been desired for so long, and at the same time, it has not been implemented. It is too expensive. Do I think something should be done? Yes. Do I believe that now is the time? No. Let's get our house in order and then begin to include more social programs (as if what we don't already have enough).

Off soapbox now. I think my blood pressure is down a little bit now. Uh oh, it's going up again thinking about amnesty for the illegals.


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