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Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       02-11-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
So I will be pulling out my rear stock tanks out of my 2005 Sanger V-215. I will be replacing them with bags that can hold up to 750lbs. I know they wont fill all the way, but I am only looking for about 650lbs out of them. What ever I come up short by I will compensate with lead. I will post pictures and issues as I perform this task. I will be getting the stuff by the 15th. I will keep you posted.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       03-31-2010, 12:17 PM Reply   
I rebuilt the fill hoses out of 1" hose. I will install asap and tell you if the problem is fixed. I believe it will be fixed. I still need to measure out the length of hose you will need to fix this.

Next problem is, I need to look at/figure out, how to make sure the bags drain all the way. I will give you an update on that later. For now the pumps quit pumping (they are not self priming pumps) so the appear to be done but they aren't. I might change the stock drain hose routing to fix this.
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       03-31-2010, 12:41 PM Reply   
Thanks Dave, let us know and pics are always appreciated.

My kit just arrived today. playin around with the check valves, doesnt feel like they're sealing 100% - maybe 95%... Maybe that's good enuf, I'll have to wait and see.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       04-06-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
Ok I finally measured the hose you need to complete this project. I removed my 1 1/8 spa hose a replaced it with wakemakers 1 inch house. I don't know how hard it will be to stretch the hose over the ballast pumps but I know it will. Each one of these hoses I built to about 54" total length. So the kit wakemakers makes should send you about 10 feet of hose to make your life easier.
Attached Images
 
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-09-2010, 8:44 PM Reply   
Is there any special glue to use around the fittings? I heard PVC cement is the best?
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-09-2010, 8:56 PM Reply   
Shouldn't need to glue anything. At least I didn't. The fittings are threaded and there's an o-ring seal. Add a hose clamp and yur goodtago.
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-10-2010, 7:18 AM Reply   
So the 3/4" vent hose connects to the bottom port on the bags and the two 1" to the top ports?
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-10-2010, 8:21 AM Reply   
Yep
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-10-2010, 10:09 AM Reply   
Thanks Derek! Doing mine right now...
Old     (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-28-2010, 11:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanw209 View Post
So the 3/4" vent hose connects to the bottom port on the bags and the two 1" to the top ports?
You mean the 3/4" drain hose connects to the bottom, right?
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       04-12-2010, 12:36 PM Reply   
Great job Ryan, I have to laugh at you a little bit, in good fun, you were to lazy to cut the bolts so you made those bolt pertectors. That looks way more involved then cutting 4 SS steal bolts and throwing a piece of foam in front of them. Looks great by the way. I saw you asked about the 3/4 line. That one goes to the back of the bag and is for emptying. The back top 1 inch is the fill and the forward front 1 inch it the vent, correct?

You have the new 1 inch line correct, not the factory 1 1/8? And you still had a leak? I was thinking just wrapping some tape around the check valve fitting then putting the hose back on, just a thought.
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-12-2010, 4:41 PM Reply   
Lol thanks Dave. I noticed the 3/4" drain hose converts to a 1" at the pump. Did you think about changing the 3/4" hose to 1"? Seems like it would be an easy switchout and the bags would drain faster? I have some 1" hose left over so I think I might look into this a little more.
Old     (jetskiprosx)      Join Date: Aug 2004       04-12-2010, 6:44 PM Reply   
I put in my check valves this weekend and I too had to replace the 1 1/8" spa hose with 1" braided hose. The check valves solved the draining problem and he sacks stayed full!
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-12-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
Dave or Ryan, Have you guys tried out the new setup? How is it working? Any problems? I have mine installed, but in the rainy northwest, it will probably be another 6-8 weeks before I get my boat in the water.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       04-13-2010, 9:48 AM Reply   
I have not made it back out to the Delta since I found out the stock spa hose 1 1/8 leaked at the check valves. I know have the 1 inch set up ready to install. Ryan, was is hard to get the 1 inch house onto the pirahna pumps? did you use lube? Anyway I hope this weekend the weather holds out. Then I will know for sure it the system is leak tight.

Problems I see having now are, the bags don't like to drain all the way b/c where the drain hose is located in the bag and that we don't have self priming pumps.

Another problem I see is (look at my diagram of how I weight my boat) is I have a lot of lead in the front of the boat so if I have no water ballast in the boat and I stop from 20 mph to stop, It looks like the nose just might dip. NOT really but I did get the pucker factor!

For how I weight my boat, I ride at 24 mph at 73 feet. I am a w2w rider. I get booted. I love it.
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-13-2010, 10:14 AM Reply   
I put a 1" hose on the fill tube after you mentioned the issue with the 1 1/8" hose. If you take a minute and heat it up with a heat gun or maybe hair dryer, no issue - slides right on. Hope this helps.

I would think the drain would work well. the drain hose is on the bottom of the bag, so the pump should be plenty primed - its lower than the bag lol
Old     (Conejo_Guy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-15-2010, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave27 View Post
Another problem I see is (look at my diagram of how I weight my boat) is I have a lot of lead in the front of the boat so if I have no water ballast in the boat and I stop from 20 mph to stop, It looks like the nose just might dip. NOT really but I did get the pucker factor!

For how I weight my boat, I ride at 24 mph at 73 feet. I am a w2w rider. I get booted. I love it.
Dave, now that you have had some lake time with your new set up do you still have the lead and pop-bags in the same locations that you detailed in the image at the beginning of the thread?

If not, what is your current distribution? Do you mind telling me where your rubrail rides in relation to the surface when you're at idle? I'm interested in replicating your set up on my V215 but I don't have the balls to put the hull too low into the water.

Thanks -
Old     (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-13-2010, 7:35 PM Reply   
Nice work Guys!!! Very nice work..

I'm really torn on wether or not to switch over to bags. The thought of loosing all that storage when they are filled is concerning.
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-13-2010, 8:21 PM Reply   
Coop, I only switched over the surf side. and I went with the 1100#'er. But I'm not a hardcore wakeboarder... yet. Still have storage on the other side + the hard tank. Another thoughts, you dont have to fill them completely full. You could still get more than 250# and have life jackets or sumpin on top of the bags...
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       04-14-2010, 7:29 AM Reply   
I through all my light stuff on top of the bags, life jackets soft bags kids etc. I don't have anything on top of the bags when filling but once full through what ever you want in there as longs as its not sharp. I love my wake. The stock wake imo is way to small.
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-14-2010, 12:33 PM Reply   
I haven't had a chance yet to try my new setup. I'm accually in Florida at the wakeboard camp this week. If any of u guys have the means and want to get better fast I highly reccommend spending a week here! We are on our way to the cable park in Orlando right now.

Dave- I did have trouble getting the hoses on the pumps. I put some soapy water on the barbes of the pump and used a heat gun on the tubing for about 3 minutes and they stretched right over easily. If I ever had to get them off it's going to be a pain. I'm going to see if I have enough tubing to change the 3/4 hose to 1" when I get back. I'll keep ya posted!

Coop- you run a lot of lead don't you? How is it towing with all the lead? Do you move it around for towing or is it already evenly distributed? I would say it's totally worth losing the space. I had to take all the stuff out of my lockers and I realized I have never used anything that was in there anyway. I had like 10 life jackets but I only ride with 3-4 people anyway. I think you will be surprised at what you do without.

Last edited by ryanw209; 04-14-2010 at 12:38 PM.
Old     (helinut)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-14-2010, 3:05 PM Reply   
Where might I pick up some of those anti siphons? Those look nice. I need em.

Thanks.
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-14-2010, 4:53 PM Reply   
http://www.wakemakers.com/catalogsea...n-return+check
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-14-2010, 7:57 PM Reply   
Shawn- someone told me lowes sells some anti syphon so check there if you want. We all got ours from wakemakers
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       04-26-2010, 8:24 AM Reply   
Finally rode again this weekend. I put the new 1" hoses in (the fill hoses with the check valves). They worked great. No leaks. It was a bitch getting the 1" hose on. But a heat gun and binding lube did the trick. I still don't like how the bags don't fully empty. But when I get the boat home I will look at that further. I was thinking about turning the bags around so the empty hoses are towards the bow, your thoughts? Anyway the wake is great. I don't like that when I have all the ballast empty that the nose of the sanger is so low. I keep 450lbs of lead up there. I am think about/how to have one more ballast bag up there, but I don't want bags on the floor. but oh well I guess.

How is everyone else doing with there projects?
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-26-2010, 9:06 PM Reply   
I'm taking mine out Friday so I'll let you know. I was trying to think of a solution to get the bags to drain and the only thing I could think of was just driving slow so the bow is up to get all the water to drain to the back. Do you think that will work? I don't see how flipping the bags around will help them drain. Can't wait to try out the new wake!!!
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-27-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
I wonder if we could put a plywood ramp under the bags to make the bags drain better (toward the back)?
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       04-27-2010, 7:32 AM Reply   
I got them to drain pretty good on the boat ramp. But I am at the delta where the ramps are really steep. A typical natural boat ramp won't be as steep. But your right running your boat at about 10mph not on plane would work but sucks gas.
Old     (no_really)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-06-2010, 7:27 PM Reply   
Any pictures of the wakes?
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       05-06-2010, 7:44 PM Reply   
Not from me. In the Northwest it is still too cold to get out. Another month or so...
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-07-2010, 4:34 PM Reply   
I'll try to get you a pic when I go out this week. With the 750's in the rear, 500 in the locker, and two- 280's on the front seats the wake is perfect for me. Night and day compared to the stock wake.
Old     (clotus)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-07-2010, 5:37 PM Reply   
I am hopefully going to be going this route in the future so I have been following very closely. Some pics of the wake would be awesome. For draining the bags couldn't you just lift the end of the bag up forcing the water to the rear once it gets close to empty???? I do this with my front bag when I need it real empty. But in my experience bags don't ever get drained completely using a pump.
Old     (no_really)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-07-2010, 7:51 PM Reply   
Come on man-put on that dry suit!!

I will be patient - Thank You
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       05-10-2010, 10:48 AM Reply   
The way the rear bags are plumbed it doesn't make it easy draining even if you do lift up one end of the bag. I have some photos of the wake but they are stuck in my friends camera. I will Ping him today to get them!
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       05-10-2010, 1:26 PM Reply   
Here are four photos, Sorry I'm in them, LOL, and no, I don't have to go potty, you will understand when you look at the fourth photo.
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Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-11-2010, 5:27 PM Reply   
Nice poke Dave!!! I got my 750's to drain about 98% today just by plowing some water at the end of draining so I'm ok with that.

Here are a few I took today... not the best but you get the picture. This is with the 750's almost full, 500 in the locker full and somewhere around 400 on the front seats.
The girl is at 65ft and 21.5mph(I blurred out her face cuz I didn't ask if I could post her pic) The one with the guy in the white helmet is at 70ft and 22mph. The rest are me at 75ft and about 22.5mph.
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Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       05-12-2010, 7:46 AM Reply   
Nice job, I was riding at 73 feet and 24mph.
Old     (nmcjr)      Join Date: Aug 2009       05-14-2010, 2:43 PM Reply   
I will attest that this makes a nice wake, I was really impressed.
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-15-2010, 11:19 AM Reply   
^ I paid him to say that... lol....
Old     (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-16-2010, 5:20 PM Reply   
Those wakes look clean and the transition shape is ridiculous. Good work. I think you guys have dialed it in perfectly.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       06-23-2010, 7:46 AM Reply   
here is an an update. I have had good luck with draining the bags almost all the way on the trailer. But the coolest thing I have learned. the Port side bag kept pushing the engine wall divider thing against the engine. Which made me realize that you can move the c-channel retainer that is screwed to the floor closer to the engine on both sides. This gives you more room for the bag and more room in the locker. There is nothing that the dividers can hurt even if they flex into the sides of the engine. I moved both divider c-channels to the center of the boat about 3-4 inches. Also on the starboard side I decided to remove the cover that makes the compartment look better around the gas filler hose and other lines such as ballest heater some wiring. Anyway I think these two minor tweaks will make those bags fill better and fit better. I wish I had some pictures for you guys. Let me know if this works for you also
Old     (clotus)      Join Date: Mar 2009       06-23-2010, 10:45 AM Reply   
After a little googling I still had no luck. Does wavemakers have a website so I can check out the kit. If not does anyone have a ballpark price???
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       06-23-2010, 11:01 AM Reply   
It cost me about 380 bucks. Wakemakers still does not have the kit on their site for some reason.
Old     (clotus)      Join Date: Mar 2009       06-23-2010, 9:02 PM Reply   
cool thanks.
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-24-2010, 6:39 AM Reply   
Dave- I never put that cover around the gas filler back in after I installed the bags but I'll have to try moving the channnels closer to the engine. Also, my PP was a little more off than I though. In the picture I was riding around 24 also and 75ft.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       06-24-2010, 7:42 AM Reply   
right on. So should I throw away that gas cover part thing?
Old     (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-24-2010, 5:39 PM Reply   
We have added the Sanger Ballast kit to the website. Sorry for the delay. We wanted to make sure it was complete and tested by multiple customers before we activated it.

Sanger Factory Ballast System Upgrade Kit
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       06-24-2010, 8:50 PM Reply   
spencer, Why is it only 69 bucks and doesn't tell you anything?
Old     (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-25-2010, 11:30 PM Reply   
I am plumbing in some custom sized bags into my '09 V237 right now. Was wondering if you guys have the same issue as me, even though it wasn't mentioned. Did you guys also have a pump screwed into the hard tanks? I do, it's my drain pump, and without the hardtank it is just lying around freely. Trying to think of ways of anchoring it to something.

Anyone do this, or is this a non-issue for the '05's?
Old     (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-26-2010, 3:51 PM Reply   
Dave,
The price is $69.95 for the pre-assembled fitting kit. You have the ability to use the drop down to select the bag that will best suit your needs. I am working on the descriptions.

Andrew,
You can mount your pumps off to the side. Just make sure they are somewhat close to your drain fitting and that they are at or below the sac to keep the pumps primed. They can also sit freely as long as they have enough room to keep the hoses from kinking.

Last edited by spencerwm; 06-26-2010 at 3:54 PM. Reason: Left out something
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-26-2010, 9:11 PM Reply   
Andrew- the drain pumps on the 05-06 are mounted in the hull just to the side of the engine so that wasn't an issue for us.
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       06-27-2010, 7:22 AM Reply   
Andrew, as Ryan mentions not an issue for us. Several of my pumps are mounted to the plumbing coming thru the hull. But the drain pumps for the rear are loosely held by the rubber covered metal wire loom holders (hope that makes sense).
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-28-2010, 5:27 PM Reply   
Yes Andrew I was mistaken. The 3/4 hose is the drain. If you are doing this changeover I would just buy and extra 5ft of 1" hose and change out that 3/4" drain hose.
Old     (hatepwcs)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-28-2010, 6:37 PM Reply   
Dave- Im interested in trying to fit your old hard tanks into my V210. Do you still have the tanks? if you are interested shoot me the dimensions. I think the lockers on my 210 are longer than the 215.

FYI- I took the stock center ballast bag out and replaced with a 700# and it s night and day. Not sure about the 215 but move some of that weight forward and watch that wake grow into something really big and beautiful.

Let me know.

Thanks.
Old     (4white)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-05-2010, 2:35 PM Reply   
I did the swap over to the 1100 pound bags this weekend, great job to Jason and the guys at WakeMakers, totally turnkey!! Pulling the tanks out was by far the toughest part (almost got out my chainsaw), but from there it was a snap. Heat gun is essential for putting the hoses back on the pumps.

Didn't have great weather this weekend, but got a quick surf in. WOW what a difference, definately worth the money.

Cheers,

Rich
Old     (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-05-2010, 4:59 PM Reply   
Congrats on the new wake Rich! You'll have a ton of fun with the new wake!
Old     (vette74)      Join Date: Jun 2008       07-05-2010, 6:15 PM Reply   
CAwakesk8r (hatepwcs), How much does the 700 fill to the stock one on the 210?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-05-2010, 10:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by vette74 View Post
CAwakesk8r (hatepwcs), How much does the 700 fill to the stock one on the 210?
Stock is 400 pounds I think, you can get around 600 pounds with the big bag, just ask sparky!
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-06-2010, 7:50 AM Reply   
CAwakesk8r, I will hang onto the tanks. If I ever sell the boat, I would like to have the option to go back to stock.
Old     (4white)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-09-2010, 3:58 PM Reply   
CAwakesk8r I sent you a PM
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-09-2010, 4:31 PM Reply   
Finally gettin the boat out this week. The 1100# bag on port side is fantastic for surfing. I add another 400#er on the port side and the wake is great.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-15-2010, 11:44 AM Reply   
I do have a new way I am weighting the boat. I will get the pick up shortly. My concerns of the bow did is all but gone. I get scared when I have two adults and a kid up in the bow. But if I will have those peeps up there all day I will just move some lead to the back seat. I will post the picture soon. I do love it now. I get it to drain all the way. Removing the gas carpet cover thing and moving the C-channel closer to the engine was key. I am now riding at 76 feet and 23.7.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-15-2010, 11:58 AM Reply   
When loaded the bow eye is almost in the water and the swim deck is about 4 inches under water. I don't know about the rub rail. I ride the delta and I have to be careful about rollers coming in the front and if the CIE boat rides by it can send some water over the side. But I am super happy with the wake. The Prop and gallons an hour. I am running about 6.5 gallons and hour. I love that I can dump the 1700lbs of ballast.
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Old     (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-15-2010, 12:40 PM Reply   
I have my system nearly completely installed now, but I'm having a bit of a problem with the drain line. After filling the bag, water drains out the drain line without the pump turned on. Did you guys address this by routing the line as high as possible, or is there something else I can try. It seemed to still drain even with the line well above the bag.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-15-2010, 1:06 PM Reply   
Do you mean vent line? I have no draining problems with my system. I have a check valve on the fill pumps.
Old     (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-15-2010, 2:20 PM Reply   
For some reason it is siphoning out the drain line, and pouring out the side of the boat. So far I haven't hooked up the vent line.
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-15-2010, 2:57 PM Reply   
I do have mine spill out the vent line to the side of the boat. Just bought a ball valve at Home Depot to install on the vent line...

Andrew, you could put a ball valve onthe drain hose too. It routes just under the steel structure which would make a good place for a call valve - just have to remember its there when you go to drain.
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-15-2010, 7:49 PM Reply   
Maybe I am lost what you guys are talking about. You have a fill hose, into the top back of the bag, a drain hose, at the bottom back, and a vent hose at the top foward part of the bag. What is siphoning out? the vent hose?
Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-15-2010, 8:09 PM Reply   
I think for me, its the vent hose. When I fill the sac and it is visibly full, water will spill out of one of the two holes on the side of the boat. One is the vent hole and one is the drain hole. I think when the bag get full the water just spills out the vent hole. But i really dont think it is totally full - I just think the vent is the path of least resistance.

I am thinking that if i put a ball valve on the vent, I may get the sac to fill up a bit more (could be wrong). probably will need one on the drain two, cuz it will be the second lowest path of resistance lol

I have the wakemakers check valve too, so it's not draining out the fill hole...
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-16-2010, 7:33 AM Reply   
easy fix is to run vent line to opposite side of boat that way it is a highpoint vent and will allow the sacks to fill completely and wont auto siphon once full
Old     (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-16-2010, 7:35 AM Reply   
wierd, I have the vent hose on my sysem nice a long, the factory length. Maybe that is why I don't have the problem. I would think it would be inpossiable to have the bags drain out the vent hose and drain hose because the ports they drain out are higher then the bag? How can water drain up hill?
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-16-2010, 8:08 AM Reply   
easy when you are set up to surf the boat leans making the vent opening lower than the sack at least on my boat so I ran the vent lines to the opposite sides and tada the sacks fill all the way and do not lose any water but than again my sacks are 3 times bigger than the ones above
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Old     (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-16-2010, 9:11 AM Reply   
Harold's right. And I have kept my vent hoses stock length too. My 1100# bag may fill more and tip the boat more, I dunno. But running them to the other side of the boat seems like a good idea. But, for me it would require another trip to Home Depot, so I will probably just install the ball valve LOL

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