Woofer advice
 

Over the past 2 seasons I've had a JL12w3. It sounds pretty good but takes up too much space in my walkway. I've tried really hard to make a box for under my helm but its REALLY tight under there and all I can get sealed is a little under 1.0 ft^3. Would a 10w6 in a ported enclosure produce more sound over the under sized 12w3 box? I got a jx500 as my amp. Not trying to win any sound contests, just want the most out of my space. Thanks for any advice.

Dang 75+ views and no opinions? Paging David and MLA!!!!!! Where's the bat signal button?

Free bump

I have no idea but I clicked on the thread because I'm re building a sub box in a tight area too. I upgraded my sub from stock kenwood 12 to a wetsounds XS-12. Doesn't look like it's going to be fun. JonyB is a good one to get ahold of too.

Yeah I hate to DM them.....figured someone would chime in eventually.

Alpine Type R or S sealed box under dash will have you bumpin

I think they are to the point where they would rather have you DM them. Instead of somebody on here telling them they don't know what their talking about.

I wouldn't hesitate to DM them

how much under 1.0 ft3 is "a little"? 2nd, is that internal volume not deducting the woofer?

Without looking, i think 10W6 is going to have greater displacement than 12W3 and a ported enclosure for a W6 is going to be larger than a sealed for a W3.

How does the shape of the box affect sound? ex: if I built a box with minimum depth - just enough to clear the magnet - and built it taller and wider than your typical cube box, what does that do to the sound waves? My understanding is that its all about the volume, which I will be match to the sub. I've seen a few custom boxes built like I'm talking about, but haven't heard them. Would fit the footwell better, taking up less leg room. just don't want to compromise sound

There's so many crazy angles under there its kind of hard to get a true volume, it looks awfully small when compared to the known correct sized walkway box. The JL site says 12w3 sealed is supposed to be 1.125 where the 10w6 ported the dimensions were quite a bit smaller. Did I not read those correctly?

This is for a XS-12 sealed box

I would like to know the same thing with a sub box. Here is what I'm building but the height 12.75 and width 12 are the max I can fit. But I could make it longer and shallower so it would fit better. The height is the minimum it can be. because of the hole a XS-12 needs. Using a Sub box calculator this one comes out to be 1.1084 and a XS-12 needs 1.1


Sorry to highjack but nobody is talking about anything else worth a damn on here!!!

So yours would be almost perfect. In my case im looking at prob .8-.9 BEFORE the sub is in. So a good 25% or more in reduction in size. im pretty sure I can get to the volume a 10w6 would require, but its a 10. Its also kinda high priced so who knows.

Have you thought about one of these? Friend has this setup in his boat, very loud and minimal space usage.

http://www.jlaudio.com/cs112tg-tw3-c...-systems-93303
http://www.jlaudio.com/12tw3-d4-car-...-drivers-92185

Bill,

when fitting the box, you cant look at the ported enclosure's net internal and compare it to the sealed internal. The port structure of the ported enclosure will likely push the external dimensions past those of a sealed. Using JL's recommended enclosure dimensions for these two woofers, the external volume comes out as about 1.7 ft3 for both the 12W3 sealed and 10W6 ported.

nacho,

for a sealed, shape does not matter much just dont get crazy irregular and use a bunch of appendages to gain the ideal volume. Ported, shape is a little more important especially if it effects the port structure. In ether case, you dont want the back of the woofer too close to the back of the enclosure.

for the xs-12, 1.1 sealed might be ideal but its not an absolute. Sealed is way more forgiving as you can be a little more or a little less than that target and still be good. Missing the mark on a ported and its a domino effect.

I just finished adding subs to my truck and spent quite a bit of time looking for some sealed low sqft subs. read a lot of good things on the alpines but price drove me away. read a lot of positives on the 10tw3's and again price drove me in another direction.
I ended up with these:
http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.ph...rs/sd-3-series

I'm sure that chp and dave will have an opinion on them as a speaker company(and would love to know more about them) but so far I have liked what they sound like. for a 10" shallow mount sub, they weigh almost 20lbs(the pair in their shipping boxes were 46lbs) so feel like they are built like the jl w6 series. read a lot of good press from the car audio guys on them. some may say they don't list waterproof so that's your call but if I was designing a boat system again I would give some of the sundown products a look before buying a w6 again(had them in my last 2 boats).

You may not understand the JL Audio information. The displacement for a ported sub is based on the main chamber, before the port displacement, and additional displacement for the port walls.
The final external enclosure size will be fairly close between a ported 10 and sealed 12. However, if you are encountering a number of obstacles that would serve to create a complex box shape with many angles, then you definitely want to convert from a slot port to a round port.

If my boat wasn't still tucked away for the winter I would go measure my box for you, but I have a JL 13W7 powered by a 1200/1HD amp in a ported box and its freaking fantastic. Sorry if this wasn't much help : )

Not sure why the discussion includes shallow mount subwoofers. JL Audio makes the best shallow mount subwoofer by a country mile because they do not have to depend on existing parts that really don't fit the application or the architecture. They engineer their shallow mount subs from scratch and every part is unique to that individual sub. Plus, JL Audio's approach to the cone, spider, voice coil, and motor, are radically different from those trying to squish existing parts into a shallow mount product.
However, I would never use a shallow mount subwoofer, from any brand, including JL Audio, in a boat unless the boat absolutely forced the approach. Shallow mount subs have a lower excursion capacity plus a lower internal efficiency versus standard subwoofers with a deeper architecture. You might not notice the difference in an enclosed vehicle (car, truck, SUV) cabin, but will find a difference in an open boat where products are typically pushed much harder.

Looking at the Xmax on the JL 12tw3 it's higher than their Marine subwoofers or any of the Wetsounds subs. Yes the efficiency is lower, but 84db/1w vs 86 (JL Marine) vs 88 (Wetsounds) so it's not terribly different.

No need to comment on the brand/company, but whats the cone material made of? Lost of great woofers, but not all are great for a boat.

You can't objectively compare sensitivity/efficiency across brand to brand as there are more measurement qualifications beyond 1W/1M and they are not specified. Besides, JL Audio typically makes very broadband and linear subwoofers so you could be comparing more of an average to more of a peak.
Surface area has such a profound impact on efficiency that you would have to compare subwoofers of equal size only, in other words, apples to apples. The only JL Audio marine 12" subwoofer is an infinite baffle. It's an absolute beast (4" voice coil) with a ton of Xmax even though IB subwoofers as a category typically have a lower Xmax than their acoustic suspension counterparts. The M12IB has a one-way Xmax of .73" versus .6" on the 12TW3 (22% more Xmax is like 22% more surface area when extra power is applied). The M12B has an efficiency of 87 dB versus 84 dB on the 12TW3, nearly a 3 dB difference, which is greater than the difference normally found between a 10" and 12" of the same series. Plus, we perceive low bass output differences with greater sensitivity than we do full range differences.
So I would have to say there is a major difference when comparing apples to apples.

Wish you were closer Mike....I'd just take it to you and let you do it. My minimal carpentry skills just cant seem to get it right. I tried last year to make one up using cardboard but even that was a major PITA to make it all fit to get the space needed. Guess that's one of the big drawbacks of these older boats. There IS quite a bit of space under there once you get past the steering cable, but getting over the footrest and around the steering cable is quite a task. Maybe I'll get some pics and then ask for suggestions. IDEALLY id just keep my current sub/amp combo. Just tired of it sitting in my walkway while my cooler gets thrown around in the main cabin floor.

What boat is it.

2002 Calabria ProV...the fuel hoses and vent line are also in the way under there.

I have the same problem. I'll see if I can find a pic of it.

Try this one on for size. It's 1.1 cu. ft. Is perfect for the WS12.
In order to clear my steering cables and such, I screwed 2 pieces of HDPE on the bottom in the right places. Also keeps the box off the floor about 1" to prevent moisture. If you call groundshaker they will send it without carpet so you can glass it yourself for waterproofing.

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...ker_CP112.aspx

^^^If a simple square would fit I wouldn't be asking the questions. Thanks for the link, but that wont even come close to fitting. I'll get some pics and measurements tonight when I get home.

I have a JL10w3 that I built a custom sealed box for and it sounds fantastic. Very powerful and clear. The box I built tapers top to bottom and front to back to match the inside starboard hull. The calculations were tedious but not complex. (no trig or algebra - simple add, multiply stuff) I used the JL website to get the interior volume and went from there.
Hope that helps. If you need help with the calculations, I still have my worksheet. Just let me know.

Scot