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-   -   Thinking of adding a second sub....? Advice needed (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802232)

whatshesaid 06-03-2014 8:05 AM

Thinking of adding a second sub....? Advice needed
 
Current setup
2 pair of Rev10s / SD2
4 pair of xs650 / SYN4
1 xxx12v1 / SYN1 (in Wet Sounds angle ported box)
2 grp29 batteriers on stereo bank, and 1 starting battery, all with onboard chrager hooked up to them.

In the boat there is enough bass, but at the beach/cove its lacking bass behind the boat.

I may have found another SYN1, but have had no luck finding and old XXX12v1.
Anybody have the old XXX12v1 for sale? LOL

So my thoughts are get the used SYN1, and buy a new XXX12v2, and build the dual slotted Wet sounds box and put it under the observer seat. I always open that up at the beach to keep the amps cool.

Thought guys??

bryce2320 06-03-2014 8:41 AM

I think for what your looking to do , I'd go for it! You may have phasing issues with the locker closed, but if you can get the box baffles on the same plane, or close to it, it ought to sound good with the locker open, and still rumble the boat with it closed. Win win IMO. I posted specs of my box a while back using a 4" precision port kit. The box has so much more spl, smaller overall box due to smaller port area, and no port noise unless you play a bunch of rap or sub step. Most of that could probably be filter with a sub sonic filter on the amp though. I'd also say, it may be worth building the same box, or at least volume and tune under the helm as the new box you go with under the OB compartment.

dvsone79 06-03-2014 9:35 AM

I still don't understand why anyone would put a sub in an enclosed area like under the observer seat or rear lockers. They sound so much better at the driver's feet or the bow. That's what I would do. Build two enclosures, one in the bow or bow walkway and one in the helm. Both firing to the rear. You get better sound all the time whether the observer seat is open or not. But I ride 99% of the time and put little importance on how it sounds when I'm at a party cove.

I have a Polk DB1240DVC in a bow filler box and she serves me well.

whatshesaid 06-03-2014 9:52 AM

Bryce, i was very interested in your post with the 4" precision port kit, untill the other guy had port noise. We play all kinds of music, lots of dub step too. The sub will be on the same plane, or very close. Whats wrong with a different box than the one at the helm? My thoughts where they would have diffenent characteristics even if they where in the same box since the location/surrondings are diffentent. I dont have a problem going with the same box, just trying to understand it all.

bass10after 06-03-2014 10:06 AM

last year i had a jl w3 12 under the drivers footwell area and another in the observers compartement and was not happy with it even with the seat open. i built a custom sealed box, put them both in the foot area and couldn't be happier now. I added another pair of rev10's at the same time and wasnt sure that even with the new sub location that they would be able to keep up, but its really well balanced-even from far away. Your idea is easier to execute than going under the steering wheel, but in my application it really wasn't much better than having one sub. You won't have to drive them as hard under the helm as nothing is really lost vs being in a compartement.

bryce2320 06-03-2014 11:06 AM

My thought was keeping everything symmetrical so the boxes would be the same. Houstonshark build the box I have except tube to 39hz I believe. Maybe he will chime in on how it did with the dub step rap stuff. As far as putting the other sub in the walkway, I've done that and it works well if you have room and don't mind it.

whatshesaid 06-03-2014 11:47 AM

Detox, your experience has seemed to crush my ideas...., but thats the info im looking for. Im sure it would added some bass with a second woofer, but is it worth the extra draw on the batteries?

I think the walkway/bow filler is a good idea for sound, but I'm not willing to give up that floor space!

What to do??

Houstonshark 06-03-2014 2:59 PM

The enclosure I built was pretty similar to the one Bryce shared. I shrunk it a hair and got the net internal volume just under 1.5 cu ft. and used a 4" aeroport, tuned at 40hz.

I wanted to get rid of some plywood scraps I had in the garage rather than buy marine grade plywood like I've used before. I think it's all 6-7 ply sanded birch.

I did a 1.5" front baffle, corner braces in the vertical corners on the port side and a 1" dowel for bracing. I also dynaglassed all of the seams, inside and out as well as the screw holes prior to coating it in resin.

I don't have any finished pics but I did install it in the boat. Wow! It was dramatically better than the dual slot loaded enclosure I pulled out.

There is ZERO port noise, more output and much better range. The sub still played low and sounded great on everything I threw at it.

I installed an Audison Bit Ten just before swapping the enclosures in order to give each enclosure a fair comparison.

I ended up using a Bandpass crossover in the Bit Ten on the sub with the HP at 35hz at 12db/octave and the LP at 60hz at 18db/octave.

Here are couple pics as I was building it.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/7ynyvy5e.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/u4e8e4ah.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/bu9upupy.jpg

Houstonshark 06-03-2014 3:02 PM

I know the hole for the woofer looks like crap. I just didn't feel like breaking out the router and circle jig.

Redheadd 06-03-2014 3:30 PM

Where did you put that at?

DavidAnalog 06-03-2014 3:43 PM

Quote per TJ,
"I ended up using a Bandpass crossover in the Bit Ten on the sub with the HP at 35hz at 12db/octave and the LP at 60hz at 18db/octave."

TJ,
I'm curious as to what prompted the decision to run the subwoofer lowpass at 60 Hz? And why 3rd order? Also, are the in-boat satellites run at 60 Hz & 3rd order highpass too....or what are you running?

whatshesaid 06-03-2014 4:34 PM

WOW! THANKS FOR THE LESSON TJ!

So do you think your happy the output, or are you wanting more?

Houstonshark 06-03-2014 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidAnalog (Post 1879537)
Quote per TJ,

"I ended up using a Bandpass crossover in the Bit Ten on the sub with the HP at 35hz at 12db/octave and the LP at 60hz at 18db/octave."



TJ,

I'm curious as to what prompted the decision to run the subwoofer lowpass at 60 Hz? And why 3rd order? Also, are the in-boat satellites run at 60 Hz & 3rd order highpass too....or what are you running?


David, I just looked back at the config and I have the sub crossed over at 60hz @ 12db/octave, not 18.

I'm honestly not positive where the in boats are crossed over. Per the dial on the SD6, I expect them to be somewhere around 80hz @ 12db/octave (not selectable).

I just got a SMD CC-1 that I will use to dial in the crossovers.

I currently have the outputs of the Bit Ten just going to the sub amp as I didn't have the input cable which has 4 RCA inputs. I plan to manage the Rev10's and the sub crossovers and EQ out of the Bit Ten.

To answer your question about why I chose 60hz, it just sounds better to me. I have never been a big fan of upper sub frequencies. They are especially annoying to me with the sub right at my feet, under the captain's helm.


I know that leaves a gap but it really just sounds better to me. I will likely play with the crossover some more and raise it up, while making some adjustments to the EQ to smooth the upper sub frequencies out that bother me.

DavidAnalog 06-03-2014 8:10 PM

TJ,
I know of some things that form your perception of why you don't seem to like the upper bass frequencies.
But I just wanted to know why you set it up the way you did. Thanks.

Houstonshark 06-03-2014 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatshesaid (Post 1879546)
WOW! THANKS FOR THE LESSON TJ!



So do you think your happy the output, or are you wanting more?


It's the loudest, best sounding single 12" subwoofer setup I've heard in a boat. That being said, it is still just a single 12.

It's more than enough for 90% of the time I'm playing the system in the boat but there's always that time every once in awhile after a few drinks where I wish I had a couple 12's in the boat, lol.

Houstonshark 06-03-2014 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidAnalog (Post 1879567)
TJ,

I know of some things that form your perception of why you don't seem to like the upper bass frequencies.

But I just wanted to know why you set it up the way you did. Thanks.


I actually liked it a little better at 50hz but it lost too much output. I'll verify the crossover frequencies with the CC-1 though.

The higher the sub is crossed over, the more localized the sub becomes. That is a problem when there is not a full range speaker on the same plane as the sub, firing at me.

bryce2320 06-04-2014 5:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houstonshark (Post 1879570)
It's the loudest, best sounding single 12" subwoofer setup I've heard in a boat. That being said, it is still just a single 12.

It's more than enough for 90% of the time I'm playing the system in the boat but there's always that time every once in awhile after a few drinks where I wish I had a couple 12's in the boat, lol.

You must surf with a beer in your hand, dick! :D
2 subs would be awesome if it was easily achievable.

Houstonshark 06-04-2014 5:52 AM

Admittedly, someone has tossed me a beer while surfing, once. Because I'm an elite athlete (you have to be to surf), with excellent hands, I caught the beer, opened it and drank at least half of it before we hit some rollers and I was bounced out of the pocket.

Tell me this, is it a bigger dick move to drink a beer while surfing or to not drink a beer that someone gives you?

Momma always said you never refuse a beer. That's just rude.

brett33 06-04-2014 6:46 AM

All I'm saying is, if by some miracle I graciously donate one of my coldies to the cause...

You drink it.

bryce2320 06-04-2014 8:45 AM

If I'm surfing, I'm drinking.


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