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-   -   Ropeles, just not getting it (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802157)

racer808 05-27-2014 9:07 AM

Ropeles, just not getting it
 
I have my wave dialed. We experiment with different speeds but I am just not getting it. Cannot ride with much slack in the line. I have a liquid force fish 5'-6". Should be able to ride the board. don't want to upgrade till I can actually ride ropeless. What am I doing wrong???

Pad1Tai 05-27-2014 9:15 AM

Post a vid........... You're probably positioning too far aft... I've taught 50 people to surf on that LF Fish.. Take it down to 2 fins to make it quicker..

v10rider 05-27-2014 9:33 AM

The fact that you could not get any slack on the rope tells me that your positioning is likely wrong and you're getting pushed away from the wave.

If you are regular, try holding on to the rope with your left hand and touch the top of the wave with your right hand. This will force you to turn into the wave.

racer808 05-27-2014 9:49 AM

I will need to take a vid. Will try both tips as well. Been frustrating me, thought it was my wave. But I spent a good while with my ballast & just watched the wave this weekend, threw the rope handle to the sweet spot like some of the vids have suggested so I am pretty sure wave is good. We all ride regular footed 2002 vlx, running approx 900 in rear locked, 500 in bow, 500 in floor, wedge down 200-300 on side seat. Play with speed between 10-12 mph.

v10rider 05-27-2014 10:50 AM

I had that same boat and it does put out decent surf wave and you're actually running more weight than me so I'm sure it's not the wave.

bcrider 05-27-2014 11:22 AM

I find the biggest mistake people are making is not actually leaning in to the wave or still have their weight on their heels. I always tell people it's all in the hips....being slight movements back and fourth, right and left. That being said I find you need to learn to keep your weight if regular in your left foots toes. If you have ever snowboarded or skateboarded think of doing a constant toe side turn to keep you in to the wave.

trayson 05-27-2014 12:43 PM

Leaning to far back?

To much weight on the back foot?

smorris7 05-28-2014 4:07 AM

Try keeping your speed at 9.8 to 10.5 I believe you may be a little fast.

dejoeco 05-28-2014 5:07 AM

There have been many good tips and I will some thoughts. Ultimatley you should be balanced on the board. that is not to say you will start off that way. Sometimes you need to get the feel before transitioning to the best foot placement. Make asure you are more toe side on the board. Most people learning falter by getting heal heavy. Imagine slipping a sheet of paper under your heal. that is the kind of light pressure you should have most fo the time. Acceleration is from the hips. Try this..... Stand like you are on the board and rock your hip forward. Pressure is generated down the leg and untimately to the ball/toes of you leed foot. You can also point towards the boat to get momentum forward. Most beginners also think they are moving forward but they are just bending at the waist, not a good idea. The same priciples can be used to slow down, but in a more subtle way. Otherwise, you will slow down too much and wave good bye to the boat.

surfdoggy 05-28-2014 6:38 AM

Learning to wakesurf ropeless is primarily about three things - weight over your toes, pointing the board at the back corner of the boat, and not making any sudden motions. Here is what I would suggest you try - once you get up on the board and are comfortable, stand straight up. Legs straight, chest up, facing your chest to the wake (not the boat). From that position, push your knees out over your toes. This is different than squatting - when you squat, you stick your butt out, and your weight goes over your heels. Instead, push your knees out over your toes (moves your hips forward, as others have said), particularly your lead knee . Then point the board at the back corner of the boat - this is easier to do if you keep your chest facing the wake. Lastly, you need to make all your weight shifts very small and subtle - jerky motions will cause you to lose the wake. When, and only when you can keep slack in the rope for 20 seconds straight with the rope held only in your fingertips, then drop the rope - don't throw it in the boat, don't toss it across the wake - those are sudden motions that will cause you to lose the wake. Signal to someone in the boat that you are ready, and make the act of dropping the rope nothing more than moving your fingers - have them reel in the rope immediately. Hope that helps. Good luck.

zap 05-28-2014 6:26 PM

What Rob said.... Knees over toes, weight on the inside rail, nose of the board pointed at the boat

The wave has to lift you to develop forward momentum so stay on the bottom 1/3. most beginners let the wave push them away, you fight this by keeping the nose pointed at the transom.

racer808 05-29-2014 7:49 PM

Thanks guys, good stuff to try this weekend. Will report back

racer808 06-12-2014 6:28 AM

Finally got back out. Took middle fin off of board, tried just riding toe side. Holding with left hand only, looking at the wave, not the back of the boat. Still not getting it. Frustrated that all the videos I watch it looks like they are riding flat footed & there isn't much effort involved with dropping the rope.

If anyone in Denver is reading this, I would gladly take you out, feed you all the beer & whatever else you want & you can show me plus we can surf all day on my boat

CRS_mi 06-12-2014 6:41 AM

I'm sure as others have said that you're probably too back foot heavy and riding your heels instead of your toes. I've also noticed with new riders they tend to try to surf the direction of the boat instead of surfing the line of the wave.

JArthurSquid 06-12-2014 6:46 AM

Ropeless
 
I struggled a lot my first season and kept blaming my wake -- but it's really an issue of perception. After figuring that out, I could surf wakes much smaller than what I was struggling with before.

I've taught a lot of people since then. The thing is, you want to get on the wake just enough so you start to feel "lift" under your feet. Everyone talks about "push" but I think that throws you off. You find that point near the bottom of the wake where it starts to lift you and then you can shift weight to the front foot just enough to direct the board at a slight downward angle -- so you are constantly riding down the wake. Feel for that slight lift.

If you get too high on the wake, to much "lift" pressure goes under your front foot and you can't direct the board down -- so you go backwards. Not in the wake enough (where it's flat) and you can't direct the board down because you'll push the nose under water.

This way of looking at it has gotten many people riding ropeless very quickly.

phathom 06-12-2014 11:28 AM

There are three things involved in wakesurfing. The wave, the board, and the rider. If any of those three are off, you won't get the results you're looking for.

First off, is anyone else able to go ropepless and it's just a problem you're having behind your boat on your board, or is it that no one is able to?
If no one is able to, it might be a setup with the boat and you will have to play around with your ballast setup. Ideally you want to slam as much weight in the surf side corner as you can. Double stack bags if you have to. This should give you a basic wave you can freeride, even if the pocket is really short. Once you have that, you can work on lengthening it out with faster boat speed, wakeplate adjustment, or moving some weight forward in the boat.
People call it push, but it is really lift. A good visual is a ski slope in comparison to the pocket of water you see coming from the bottom of the boat coming up to the peak of the wave. The water is rushing up from under the boat in a upwards motion to get to that peak. You are riding down that water as it's moving up, it's lifting you back up towards the peak.
The deeper the hole the boat digs, the steeper that slope. The bigger the hole the boat digs, the longer the slope, aka more bow weight. The faster the boat moves, the quicker it gets out of that hole and the faster you get in it, giving you more time on it, aka longer pocket.

The board is fine, I used to ride that board and it is big and floaty, just about anyone can ride that board. It's not the best, but it's not the worst, and it works well even with a not so great wave. So we'll just move on from that.

Lastly is you, the rider. Size does matter depending how fast the board is and how much lift your wave has. If you are heavier, you will need a faster board, not necessarily bigger, but faster and/or you will need more lift from your wave. With the LF Fish, it is made for bigger riders, but you still need a wave that can push you regardless.
Your technique and positioning is also very important. Your feet should be more centered on the board, if anything you want to have a slight bias towards your toe side edge.
You want to be balanced on the board. so that you can shift your weight easily back and forth. This will vary based on how much lift your wave has and your own body shape and size. It sounds to me like you are too far back or are leaning too far back. Move forward some. or shift your weight forward more.
Your body position has a lot to do with it as well. You want to be sideways so to look over the boat you are looking over your shoulder. You should be pretty squared up to the wave. Keep your weight balanced front to back. You carve and steer by shifting your weight from the balls of your feet to your heels.
Bend your knees. There are three main joints of movement in wakesurfing, your hips, your knees, and your ankles. You need to be bending your legs and be sure to adjust to keep your balance. I would recommend practicing on land on an indo board. You can improvise one with some 5" PVC pipe and an old skateboard with the wheels taken off. You will learn what that center of balance feels like and your muscles will remember. This helps greatly when surfing as your body will naturally want to go to that point.

rugbyballa3 06-12-2014 12:28 PM

my question is how big are you? i am 400lbs and go ropeless. for me i had to have a custom board made. i ride a 5'3 and its fast.

racer808 06-12-2014 12:29 PM

I am 5'9" & 195-200 depending on food & beer intake for the week!

MICAH_HARPER 06-12-2014 12:40 PM

you should be fine on the fish then

v10rider 06-12-2014 2:25 PM

Ge someone to take a video clip next time you head out. It will help folks to give you proper tips or advice without seeing it

rugbyballa3 06-13-2014 9:21 AM

i would say move front foot more to the toe edge, move up on the board front and back foot, pull up into the wave,and hold rope with left hand. and you can keep moving foward if you still dont feel the push. when you do feel the push then learn to pump to create your power from there. and thats a big board for you. i dont know how fast it is but i know guys 195-210 riding 4'6-4'9 just fine. i would say it might be easier for you to catch the wave on a faster board thats more appropriate for your size. try and find someone that will let you demo some boards. when it comes time to buy a board stay away from mass produced wakeboard brand wakesurfs. buy a hand built wakesurf board. yes cost a little more but much better of a board.

phathom 06-13-2014 9:56 AM

The fish is a fast board, even though it is a pig and hard to move around. When I had was a noob at 240lbs+ without any real clue what I was doing, I could slack the rope and freeride that board on a small undialed direct drive wake.
That being said, there are quicker and better boards around that price range, The smaller Ronix Koal or Caption is easier to move around and a much faster board.

bigcatpt 06-16-2014 9:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugbyballa3 (Post 1880735)
my question is how big are you? i am 400lbs and go ropeless. for me i had to have a custom board made. i ride a 5'3 and its fast.

Paul, What board are you riding? Thanks

tonyv420 06-16-2014 9:52 AM

rugbyballa3 rides a custom Day1wake surfboard, placement of your back foot should be right on top of the fin placement

racer808 06-23-2014 5:22 AM

Guess who's riding ropeless all day long? This guy! Felt like a kid who just learned to ride a bike, so excited & couldn't get me out from behind the boat. Thanks for the tips!

I know I read depth of water matters. So I am curious, Saturday we were at a deep lake & I rode with ease. Sunday we were riding 13' to 16' at it's deepest & the wave felt different, it took a lot of effort to ride ropeless. Is that in my head or does depth really play that big of a role?

masongardner 06-23-2014 5:28 AM

Depth really does play a part in the wave. You are 100% correct in that. Stay as deep as you can to get all that push. Congrats! ! Surfing ropeless is simply amazing!

phathom 06-23-2014 8:42 AM

It does play a role, but anything over 10' is good. Less than that and you will lose your wake. We used to ride in an area that was about 15-20' but in some spots would drop as low as 8-9 feet. You could tell instantly when you hit those spots as your push would disappear and you'd likely fall out if you were ropeless. Imagine how frustrating it is to learn to wakesurf there with that happening on an undialed direct drive! We managed and learned about depth and now only go where it's like 40s and 50s at a minimum.

At 13-16 feet you shouldn't have any issues, but deeper is preferred as shallow spots are more likely found in shallower areas.

Congrats on freeriding man. It's an awesome feeling.


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