WakeWorld

WakeWorld (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/index.php)
-   Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3183)
-   -   Stereo help (pretty basic) (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800524)

chilidog 11-25-2013 4:18 PM

Stereo help (pretty basic)
 
OK this is in my 67 chevelle. I am running a HU with front and rear RCA hookups. The front RCA's the front channel (two 6.5s) of my 4 channel amp. The rear HU channel is split to two sets of RCAs. 1 set goes to the 4 channel rear for two 6x9s. The other set goes to a mono Boss amp for a 12" sub. Both amps have dedicated ground and battery wires of car audio quality (fused properly). grounds to body and + to Battery in the trunk.

I hooked it all up yesterday and got nothing out of my sub/Boss amp. The fosgate 4 channel was working fine with good sound to the rear channel 6x9s and front channel sound to a 6.5 test mule driver. Although once I started the car I got very low volume out of the 6x9s off the 4 channel.

I called Boss tech support and stated I get 9.4 volts to my remote wire on the Boss amp. He said I need 12 volts to that rem wire or I won't get the amp to turn on, although I have the on LED working, I figure the fosgate is getting the same 9.4 because the wire is split with a butt connector right after the HU to two REM wires.

He suggested I get a 30amp relay to power the HU and both amp REM wires.

I also got alot of speaker whine and alternator noise which he said was from my RCAs being close to the power supply, easily fixable.

So since there is lots of experience on here with stereos will a relay solve my problem? I thought I read in the directions the rem wire only needs 3VDC, but maybe I read that wrong. My tester said 9 for sure, with battery connection at the Boss Amp at 11.94, since I had been testing with key to accessory and wore the battery down a bit.

I have wired my boat stereo the same way with 4 tower speakers off one amp and my sub off another and it has always worked great. I don't have a relay for the REM wire I just split it as I attempted to in the chevelle. Then again boat is an 06 and chevelle is 67 so maybe my alternator in chevelle needs an upgrade, not sure what the Black Scorpion 350 alternator is rated at in the Sanger.

The chevelle stereo is not trying to be anything crazy, just some sound for cruising, hence the $50 boss amp and $60 kicker sub.

Thanks in advance for your help

MIKEnNC 11-25-2013 4:54 PM

Remote wire needs an ignition source that is 12 volt. I'm not trying to talk junk but boss is very poor quality. Good chance it is the source of your problem and not the install. Disconnect the boss amp entirely, then check your remote output to fosgate amp. If its 12 volt that cheap boss amp is ur problem. Also rcas sometimes ran with a power wire can cause a ground noise but nice rcas usually will be fine. I recommend I nice set of twisted rcas myself at least. Stinger makes nice ones, si4417 is a good set. Again wouldn't surprise me if the boss amp is ur problem, I assure u I have seen it. I manage a huge car stereo and wheel and tire shop and have seen it all.

chilidog 11-26-2013 9:28 PM

Thanks Mike.

I think the two runs of 20' wire may be robbing some voltage as well so I will try and run one rem wire then split right at the amps first. I split the REm wire at the HU, so I'll go the opposite technique for starts. If this doesn't fix then I'll try the relay. If that doesn't fix I'm sure its the amp. I was advised not to buy a Boss by a friend like you shared but went on the cheap to round out the cheap system, may be wasting time and money now, you get what you pay for!!

Thanks for the help

Fixable 11-27-2013 8:16 AM

Don't bother switching to a single remote wire, you will actually be going backwards on what you want to accomplish. 2-20' runs will drop less voltage than 1-20' run split to 2 amps. (provided you are using the same wire)

With all of that said, I HIGHLY doubt that is the problem. Remote circuits draw almost no current, and thus, will not create a voltage drop in even the smallest guage wires.

Unhook your remote wire from the amp, and check voltage with a voltage meter. If it is still only 9ish volts, your head unit is not supplying the proper voltage. By doing this check, you are eliminating the possibility of wire size issues, as you will not have voltage drop if the circuit is not flowing current, when you check it.

If you now have 12 volts on that wire, there are only 2 possibilities. 1) Your amp remote circuit is internally shorted to another circuit and drawing excessive current. 2) your remote wire is badly damaged and is not able to flow that very small amount of current. (Like seriously damaged.....down to only one thread damaged).

Scenario #2 is unlikely. Usually, for that kind of current draw, it is either "Wire do", or "wire don't", not "wire sorta"

chilidog 11-27-2013 8:25 AM

Thanks Eric. Both wires are from stereo install kits and are tiny, and brand new, but designed for their current use.

On your reply, to dumb it down for me, option #1 being the amp remote circuit internally shorted, that would mean inside the amp there is a problem?? Or a problem with the Head Unit? I will do the test you suggested and see.

This could attest to Mike's comments about Boss amps.

Fixable 11-27-2013 8:37 AM

Ya, those stereo kit remote wires work fine for remote wire... Plenty big enough.

I meant that the Amp was probably internally shorted. (Provided that you have 12 volts on the remote wire with it unhooked from the Amp). There are other possibilities, I gave you the 2 most likely ones...

Now, on the other hand, if you unhook the wire, and only have 9 volts, then your problem is probably the head unit. In order to verify that, you would want to unhook your remotes at the head unit and check the remote wire at the head unit with nothing connected. If it is still only 9 volts, you got a bad head unit.

Do a couple of those voltage checks, and report back. I will help the best I can.

phathom 11-28-2013 3:20 AM

Just my 2 cents about the alternator whine. Normally it is caused by a ground impedance mismatch. This is because the ground for your HU and your amp have different potentials. There are a couple ways to take care of this, but the easiest is to make sure that the amp and the head unit go to the same ground source. A way to make this happen without changing the ground locations is to run a wire to the bolt/screw on the back of the head unit to a screw on the chassis of the amp. This will join the two bodies of both the HU and amp to the same ground potential.
Another way is to re-run your grounds to the same point.
Another way, which sometimes muddies up the signal a tad is to use ground loop isolators. These works by changing the way the signal of the RCAs is processed before it hits the amp, basically changing the sine wave phase to one different than the electrical system.

chpthril 11-28-2013 6:09 AM

Did you test the voltage on the turn-on wire with it connected to the amp or disconnected, when you measure that 9.4V? If with the ends connected, then disconnect the wire from the suspect BOSS amp and measure again. Did you also measure battery voltage at the amps?

MIKEnNC 11-28-2013 7:23 AM

If your head unit is only sending 9 volts thru rem wire or amp turn on output then that's an easy fix.....just disconnect it from the remote wire on head unit and find another ignition source under dash or column.... And size or rem wire as previously stated doesn't matter due to so little current draw thru it.... I still suspect the amp is the culprit and your weak link though..... And when I say ignition source I mean only a wire that has 12 volts when the ignition is turned forward, it should rest at 0 voltage when key is flipped back

chpthril 11-28-2013 8:08 AM

Rather then used the cars switched ignition source, use the weak 9V from the head-unit to trigger a relay connected to B+. This still has the head-unit controlling the amps' turn-on, not the ignition switch. But no need to rewire anything yet, until the root cause of the 9V is found. Could be amp or could be head-unit.

chilidog 11-29-2013 11:15 AM

From the HU to the Boss amp with Fosgate hooked up = 9.8v

Both amps unhooked, both rem wires = 10.8

Sounds like a relay is in order! I think I will just tap into the hot wire for the HUfor my relay since I've already run all my wires to the trunk.

Thanks for the help everyone, hope to get it done today and let you know

chilidog 11-29-2013 7:09 PM

Hooked up a relay switched from the HU and now have 11.8 to both amps, hooked up or not.

Still have no output from my speaker. I have hooked up the RCAs different channeles with and w/o the splitter with no luck.

I need to swap speaker wire and the speaker out to see if that helps, if not this amp must be the problem.

chpthril 11-30-2013 6:22 AM

With the remote wire connected and "hot" are there any lights on the amp? Are the gains turned all the down? Is there an input source selector that in the wrong mode for RCA? Swap the RCA's with the other amp and see if you get output or not.

chilidog 11-30-2013 9:21 AM

Mike,

I have always had the "on" lights functioning for the problem amp, and the other amp. Gains are set at mid level, I am not sure what you mean for input source selector, the directions are pretty vague. The amp is set to low pass with with bass boost off or on doesn't matter. There is a boost control knob that I have messed with plugged in and unplugged and that hasn't changed the situation.

I plan to troubleshoot the RCA's next, as well as hooking this amp to one of my 6x9s and set it to high pass to see if I get anything. I guess there's always the possibility the 12" speaker could be bad, also brand new, so the 6x9 test should tell me.

The only other switches on the amp are:
high/low pass (set to low) ,
Gain (middle)
frequency (goes from 35hz to 165hz) set to middle, not sure exactly what this is for.
and Bass Boost.

There isn't an input source selector, the directions suggest to use RCAs for low level input, or use speaker wire for high level input through a plug I am not using, aren't supposed to do both.

chpthril 11-30-2013 11:39 AM

Scott,

Some amps have the ability to turn-on using a 12V trigger on the turn-on circuit or via a speaker level input sense. If the power light is on and was on before, then that indicates that even the 9V you had before was enough to turn the amp on. Do the instructions for the amp indicate a different color LED for normal and problem modes? Some amps have a dedicated light for each while others just change color to indicate a problem.

chilidog 11-30-2013 8:56 PM

I have a green led. Trouble indicator is a separate red led that has.never lit up through this ordeal, always had green normal indicator

chilidog 12-02-2013 8:49 PM

Boss tech support suggested I send the amp back, plus they waved their $20 ship back fee since i m over 30 days from purchase. So another $10 out of pocket for shipping but hopefully the next one works.
I learned from this experience not to wait to install electronics, if i would have discovered this problem less than 30 days from purchase amazon would have covered all costs for return/exchange of defective product.

chilidog 01-01-2014 9:01 PM

So after my amp has been at boss since the first week of December I get an email stating they found no problems with it. This is frustrating....
RCA s are brand new, speaker wire has always worked fine on past installs


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:45 AM.