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-   -   Winterizing with a bucket of antifreeze (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800310)

lfadam 10-23-2013 6:28 PM

Winterizing with a bucket of antifreeze
 
We have to winterize the VT club boat tomorrow-normally we pull the drain plugs on the manifolds and the two bolts on the block and are good to go, but the manifold drain plug holes are so rusted out that we are scared to take them out again in fear that they won't go back in (I already rethreaded one hole and taped the threads on both. They hold water for now...)

So I hear the alternative is to get a 5 gal bucket of antifreeze and winterize it that way. What's the actual process for this? Put the boat on the trailer, find the raw water intake (where is this/what does it look like) and put it in the bucket, start the boat until antifreeze starts spitting out of the exhaust? Is it 100% freeze proof like pulling the plugs/bolts? What tools are required? Any other tips/concerns? Any specific type of antifreeze I need to use to not gum up the engine?

The boat is a 1990 Supra Sunsport with the classic PCM 350 engine if that helps. The big thing is I have no idea where the raw water intake it or how I rig it to suck up antifreeze.

Thanks

melton1wake 10-23-2013 6:51 PM

That's not how you do it. The cold antifreeze will close the thermostat and not allow the water in the block to flow out. You have to drain the block before you add the antifreeze. I personally do not add antifreeze after I drain the block. Lots of different opinions on that part of it but you have to drain the block first. Just be careful when reinstalling the drain plugs. Hope this helps.

illini88 10-23-2013 7:26 PM

I always drain before running antifreeze through my boat. That being said, it really wouldn't be necessary, so long as you make sure you run the boat up to temperature, which may require more antifreeze. When I got my first inboard, I pulled the intake hose off of the thru hull going to the bottom of the boat. I'm a fan of doing this, as it gets antifreeze to the trans cooler, as well. When I got my current boat, it came with a fake a lake. Now, I just hook a garden hose to my fake a lake, put the hose in a five gallon bucket of antifreeze and fire up the boat. There is plenty of suction to pull antifreeze from the bucket. I typically run 8-10 gallons through. By then, I've got a steady stream of antifreeze coming out the exhaust. For what it's worth, the fake a lake method is a lot easier than removing the hose off the thru hull. The added benefit of the fake a lake, is that you can run the boat up to temperature on the hose, and then witch to antifreeze.

xstarrider 10-23-2013 7:38 PM

As mentioned the key here for the antifreeze is to get the boat up to temp first in order to open up the thermostat. You can make a fake a lake for 5-10 dollars with a plunger and a garden hose fitting. Simple. I would plan on min 8 gallons.

illini88 10-23-2013 7:58 PM

I'm going to get fileted here, but if you are using the antifreeze only method, I'd be inclined to use the auto antifreeze. It's bright green, and once it's coming out the exhaust, there is no question as to what you have running out, whereas the RV stuff is a light pink and can be difficult to distinguish from water. Then just be sure to run the boat on the fake a lake in the spring to get the antifreeze out before dropping it in the lake. About 5 years ago, I pulled my boat away inside the barn due to weather. When I went back to run antifreeze through the boat, I had a very difficult time confirming what was coming out was actually antifreeze. I had some rust and sediment coming out of one side of the block when I was draining, so the water coming out of it had a tint to it. Granted, I was in poor light, but ever since, I switched back to the green stuff. I drain the antifreeze out of the block and manifold so it doesn't hit the lake. I also use a 55 gallon barrel I cut in half to catch what is coming out of the manifolds.

lfadam 10-24-2013 6:59 AM

We could run the boat up to temp in the lake then plop it on the trailer real quick so that's not an issue.

cwb4me 10-24-2013 7:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfadam (Post 1850392)
We could run the boat up to temp in the lake then plop it on the trailer real quick so that's not an issue.

That's the best way. Warm it up in the lake,put it on the trailer and use the fake a lake to run the antifreeze through.Just put a bucket under the exhaust to see what color is coming out. It's easier to see the color of the pink RV antifreeze in the bucket. Good Luck!

boardjnky4 10-24-2013 7:55 AM

The pink stuff is really easy to identify based on smell and a quick little taste test. Be a man.

boardjnky4 10-24-2013 7:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melton1wake (Post 1850351)
That's not how you do it. The cold antifreeze will close the thermostat and not allow the water in the block to flow out. You have to drain the block before you add the antifreeze. I personally do not add antifreeze after I drain the block. Lots of different opinions on that part of it but you have to drain the block first. Just be careful when reinstalling the drain plugs. Hope this helps.

You do realize this makes absolutely no sense, right? If cold liquid closes thermostats then that would mean the same would be true for luke warm or cold lake water.

Just make sure you run the boat up to operating temperature so that the thermostat opens. Then run antifreeze through it until it starts coming out the exhaust. Then put another gallon or two through it just for good measure.

bhyatt_ohp 10-24-2013 8:10 AM

Here is a video showing how antifreeze is delivered to the motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Jq3nn1Z0#t=477

Fuel remaining in tank should be stabilized - I like to do this and then run the boat to operating temp before draining water/adding antifreeze. The idea there is to get stabilized fuel into the fuel lines.

I like to remove my batteries and store at room temperature on auto float chargers. Seems to drastically extend battery life.

chpthril 10-24-2013 8:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardjnky4 (Post 1850405)
You do realize this makes absolutely no sense, right? If cold liquid closes thermostats then that would mean the same would be true for luke warm or cold lake water.

Just make sure you run the boat up to operating temperature so that the thermostat opens. Then run antifreeze through it until it starts coming out the exhaust. Then put another gallon or two through it just for good measure.

Its called a thermostat for a reason. its activated by changes in temp, hence the "thermo" part. So yes, as the block and coolant heat up, the closed thermostat opens. As the block and coolant cools, the thermostat closes. This is how it regulates the temp based on the thermostat's rating. A thermostat starts closed, opens as the engine warms, and then cycles from fully open to partially closed, the whole time an engine is running.

lfadam 10-24-2013 8:54 AM

Thanks for the tips.

We're probably just winterizing for a week or so this time-just for this cold snap.

So sounds like the antifreeze+bucket is perfectly viable but without a fake a lake, does anyone know where the raw water intake would be and what tools are needed to remove it? (And if any additional hose/fittings would be needed)

Thanks

bcrider 10-24-2013 9:03 AM

Do you know where your raw water filter is? I disconnect right from there and add a piece of hose which I stick right in to the bucket. If you don't know where to look start at your impeller and work backwards. As others said. Drain all water first and then suck up the RV antifreeze. It's really easy to tell when it starts coming out. First, you just drained all the water so fill with antifreeze until you hear it come out your exhaust again. Plus it smells and has a pink color. Really not hard.

wazzy 10-24-2013 9:56 AM

IF you want to continue winterizing the way you have done up to know, add a brass pipe fitting to the tapped hole in your block & put the plug on that fitting. Then remove the plug from the fitting & leave the fitting attached to the block. There are many types of brass fittings you can get at most any hardware store.

boardjnky4 10-24-2013 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfadam (Post 1850418)
Thanks for the tips.

We're probably just winterizing for a week or so this time-just for this cold snap.

So sounds like the antifreeze+bucket is perfectly viable but without a fake a lake, does anyone know where the raw water intake would be and what tools are needed to remove it? (And if any additional hose/fittings would be needed)

Thanks

If you're worried about a 1 week cold snap then just drain the block. no need to mess with antifreze.

tonyv420 10-24-2013 10:16 AM

Never have used anti freeze, in the ten years I've owned my Avalanche, and have never had a prob. I just drain the block and call it good.

wakebordr11 10-24-2013 10:24 AM

How much does all that antifreeze cost if you need to make sure it flushes out the water if you can't drain the block? Seems unreasonable to me...

Sometimes we drain and use antifreeze, sometimes we just drain...

illini88 10-24-2013 11:24 AM

I just bought RV antifreeze for $2 per gallon at Ace. So, 8 gallons was $16.00.

lfadam 10-24-2013 11:58 AM

boardjnky4 and tonyv420, the antifreeze isn't because we're paranoid. It's because we are trying to do this without draining the manifolds. We normally just drain the block/manifolds and don't use antifreeze and have never had a problem. It's getting down to 23 tonight though so I'd rather not risk it. 30 is one thing, 23 is quite cold.


wazzy, that's not a bad idea

bcrider, how thick of a diameter hose are you talking about? It has to fit snugly with the raw water hose for it to suck up the antifreeze right? Are we talking garden hose or like air compressor hose, etc? (We'd have to guess on the size and buy it on the way down there)

mark197 10-24-2013 12:32 PM

Do you guys worry about the thermostat closing back up on you when the room temperature antifreeze hits it? I ran my boat up to 180* so the oil was nice and warm then I ran antifreeze through it. I guess I never thought of the antifreeze being cool enough to close the thermostat. Thoughts?

axxxiswake 10-24-2013 12:32 PM

Ask your local dealership to do it in exchange for sponsorship / as a donation

bcrider 10-24-2013 12:45 PM

Adam, Mine is probably about a 2" braided hose. I got it from the depot.

scottb7 10-24-2013 4:57 PM

Yeah i worried about the thermostat closing. So I just drain per the manual and skip the rv antifreeze. Not a big deal, just follow the instructions.

lfadam 10-24-2013 5:02 PM

Our trailer was boxed in (boat is in the water) so we had to do the normal way. I think the anti-seize we put on the threads this spring saved us. All 4 bolts came out easy and after all the water drained I replaced them and think they are secure/no stripped holes. Success.

And I found the raw water intake and what looks like 2 inch hose, so I know what to look for if we go that route in the future.


Thanks for the help

dezul 10-24-2013 5:20 PM

Just drain if it is for a week. Drain and antifreeze for the winter. Draining is simple.

rexlex01 10-24-2013 8:51 PM

Just do it all in one shot!!
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum...le=winterizing

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...s/IMG_0785.jpg

melton1wake 10-25-2013 4:17 PM

I overstated the thermostat situation in my original post to make the point of draining the block first. It has been my understanding that after the themostat opens it usually is not fully open because of the constant flow of cold lake water. So a lot of any cold fluid bypasses the block and you may not get as much antifreeze in the block as you need if you don't drain first. I maybe wrong, it has happened before, but that's how it has been explained to me numerous times by many different mechanics.

tnbrooks01 10-26-2013 11:49 AM

I use a fake a lake, 2 water hoses, Y-fitting, pump for coolant and about 8 gallons of coolant.

Put fake a lake on with water hose, start the boat and run it up to operating temp to ensure the thermostat is open. As the boat gets up to temp I start the pump with the coolant and shut the water off I let it cycle the coolant through until nothing but coolant coming out of exhaust. Shut the motor off and done.

I will say that where I am located we haven't had long winters lately and we use the boat most all year long. I just do this because its simple and a little insurance when we do have a cold front come through.

rexlex01 10-26-2013 5:53 PM

Always treat your fuel before doing anything.

greg2 10-27-2013 9:53 AM

As far as the anti-freeze goes...IMHO it is much easier and safer to just drain the all of the water out of the block, risers, shower, heater and anything else that has water in it and then pour the anti-freeze in through the intake where the heater pulls hot water from. If all of the water is properly drained you will never have to worry about freeze damage or wonder if the thermostat opened and you got anti-freeze through the entire system using this method.

Greg

docdrs 10-28-2013 6:59 PM

There is 5 gallons of water in a typical vdrive cooling system. If you are going to use -50 plumbing antifreeze you will need to circulate 35 gallons of it thru your fake alake or whatever to get it to -40 burst protection. Watch your temperature as it will heat up you can stop once it gets to 170 as the tstat will be open sufficiently. You could reduce this amount by waiting until the exhaust goes pink before you put the pail under it. At this point only the intake line, some of the exhaust manifolds and the mufflers have any antifreeze in them. IMO drain your block and manifolds


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