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-   -   Surfgate - Patent (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800034)

axxxiswake 09-20-2013 7:47 AM

Surfgate - Patent
 
Malibu was just awarded the patent for Surfgate:

http://www.malibuboats.com/news/pres...kesurfing.html

Things are going to get pretty interesting for Nautique

grant_west 09-20-2013 8:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I think If Malibu sue's over Surf Gate. Fire Fox Should Sue Malibu

grant_west 09-20-2013 8:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Firefox Logo

ragboy 09-20-2013 8:30 AM

Lol, that's pretty funny.

ragboy 09-20-2013 8:34 AM

I was curious, went to search for the patent, its not yet in the full text search for patents, I don't believe. But I did find a malibu patent from this year for this:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...alibu+AND+surf

Isn't that describing the "CATS" system? A controlled adjustable fin in FRONT of the rudder? Could be wrong, patents are always fun to read.

ragboy 09-20-2013 8:39 AM

I was curious to see how patent was written and if it would actually be a problem for NSS, but I can't find it. Def interesting.

bjames 09-20-2013 10:11 AM

Good for Malibu... Be interesting to see what happends now. Although Malibu holds the patent, will other mfgs come out with their own and pay a licensing fee to Malibu? Like all other boat brands pay Nautique a $60 liscense fee for there towers.

john211 09-20-2013 10:23 AM

Malibu has a bunch of published applications on the surf gate. In the "advanced search" search option of the published application database, enter the query:

in/gasper and an/malibu

Probably the press release means that in at least one of the applications, the patent examiner has given an indication of something allowable ... which means that given time, a patent will issue (barring very unusual circumstances).

wakeandsnow27 09-20-2013 11:50 AM

completely unrelated to surfgate...

The way I read ragboy's patent he posted is almost like a hydrofoil that could creat downforce of the boat when underway. Isn't that a very legitimate idea? basically weightless until movement. The pitch of this horizontal fin would pull the boat deeper or shallower into the water.

Am I missing something?

boardman74 09-20-2013 12:51 PM

Sounds like the wedge!!!!

maxx_wake 09-20-2013 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john211 (Post 1845931)
Malibu has a bunch of published applications on the surf gate. In the "advanced search" search option of the published application database, enter the query:

in/gasper and an/malibu

Probably the press release means that in at least one of the applications, the patent examiner has given an indication of something allowable ... which means that given time, a patent will issue (barring very unusual circumstances).

Yeah, or just use Google patents. USPTO site is good for some things and you can look at PAIR info to determine examination history but their search function kind of sucks.

https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#q=malibu+boat&tbm=pts

maxx_wake 09-20-2013 2:54 PM

The other thing about patents is just because they are granted doesn't really mean they are valuable. The true test for a patent comes if it is they ever try to enforce it in court. An examiner who reviews hundreds of applications a year isnt going to do near as thorough of a prior art search as a team of lawyers for a company that may have millions of dollars on the line.

scottb7 09-20-2013 4:10 PM

ok, let me be the first to say that i hope those bastards at nautique take right up the...i think they just imitated someone else's idea. it is not malibu that should kick their ass it is volvo

http://www.volvopentastore.com/QL-Tr...view_id.345015

simplej 09-20-2013 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottb7 (Post 1846007)
ok, let me be the first to say that i hope those bastards at nautique take right up the...i think they just imitated someone else's idea. It is not malibu that should kick their ass it is volvo

http://www.volvopentastore.com/ql-tr...view_id.345015

yeah! Burn em at the stake!

wakebordr11 09-20-2013 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxx_wake (Post 1845989)
The other thing about patents is just because they are granted doesn't really mean they are valuable. The true test for a patent comes if it is they ever try to enforce it in court. An examiner who reviews hundreds of applications a year isnt going to do near as thorough of a prior art search as a team of lawyers for a company that may have millions of dollars on the line.

Also, whats up with NSS patent pending... Just because the chicken came before the egg here surfgate vs. bu doesn't mean (to me) that maybe the egg didn't come first - of course I don't know when bu applied for a patent vs. Nautique, but I am willing to wager they were probably at almost the same time. Someone at one company or another heard the other was doing X and they said "**** how can we use their idea to create our own patented system"... its more benchmarking than copying IMO... I don't think NSS is going to steal much business from Surfgate... could be wrong though.

JamesHawk101 09-23-2013 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1846029)
Also, whats up with NSS patent pending... Just because the chicken came before the egg here surfgate vs. bu doesn't mean (to me) that maybe the egg didn't come first - of course I don't know when bu applied for a patent vs. Nautique, but I am willing to wager they were probably at almost the same time. Someone at one company or another heard the other was doing X and they said "**** how can we use their idea to create our own patented system"... its more benchmarking than copying IMO... I don't think NSS is going to steal much business from Surfgate... could be wrong though.

Have you ever been behind a Nautique with NSS? It is so much better then Surfgate in so many ways. With Surfgate all you can do is weight the boat evenly and switch sides. With NSS you can do all that and adjust the waves length and height. I personally think it throws a better wake behind a G23 then any Malibu or Axis with it.

boardman74 09-23-2013 2:00 PM

You can adjust wave length and height with NSS? So if I want say a 5 foot wave with a 10 foot pocket, what setting should i use?

wakebordr11 09-23-2013 2:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman74 (Post 1846287)
You can adjust wave length and height with NSS? So if I want say a 5 foot wave with a 10 foot pocket, what setting should i use?

You got like 9 feet of air that time.:D

James, NSS is adjustable - okay there is one significant difference. The rest, was just you and your opinion... Anyone have any additional info on the NSS patent? They could be two much different animals.

andrew_moreton 09-23-2013 2:35 PM

Malibu filed at least four patent applications on SurfGate and the USPTO recently filed Notices of Allowance in two of those applications while the other two applications are still pending.

rallyart 09-23-2013 4:07 PM

Volvo Penta has had trim tabs using the same principle as NSS for many years. It drops a vertical panel into the water at the transom to build a fluid ramp which acts just like a trim tab making a mechanical ramp to change water flow. The only difference in the NSS is that it also projects sideways to push the hull as well as lift it some.

JamesHawk101 09-23-2013 6:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1846292)
You got like 9 feet of air that time.:D

James, NSS is adjustable - okay there is one significant difference. The rest, was just you and your opinion... Anyone have any additional info on the NSS patent? They could be two much different animals.

Wow, surprised people still remember that.

schmo 09-24-2013 8:51 AM

I have not read the patent, but just because Malibu got a patent on Surfgate and has more pending patents, it doesn't mean that Nautique can't get their own patent and not be in violation. As someone else said as well, it isn't who came out with the idea to market first, it is who filed for the invention first, whether or not it was produced yet.

In addition, the devil here will be in the details. While the end concept may be the same which is the delayed convergence of the two wakes, the implementation of each is COMPLETELY different.

Malibu approached this with big flaps hanging off the back that rotate outwards. Nautique has plates mounted on the back, underside of the boat that slide out and down by an inch or so. They really are two completely different ways of achieving a result. It reminds me of the difference between a wakeplate and the old Nautique hydrogate. One is a flap that rotates down and the other is a plate that extends down.

Most patents that are awarded as of late do require detail to the implementation as the patent offices have been a little better and not just awarding vague and all encompassing patents.

It will be interesting. I am just glad I have the NSS on my boat already. They can't take it away and it works great. :)

axxxiswake 09-24-2013 1:36 PM

Lawsuits coming.

wakebordr11 09-24-2013 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axxxiswake (Post 1846436)
Lawsuits coming.

From whom?

axxxiswake 10-07-2013 7:41 AM

Malibu


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