WakeWorld

WakeWorld (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/index.php)
-   Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3183)
-   -   New Boat Help, Z3 or new LSV? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799992)

CarFanatic5 09-17-2013 6:27 AM

New Boat Help, Z3 or new LSV?
 
These are my top two pics right now. I surf most of the time so surf wave is a big deal to me. both boats have plus and minus to me. But I haven't demoed them yet. Hoping to demo in the next week or 2. Was hoping some guys could chime in about either boat.

jeff_mn 09-17-2013 9:04 AM

Can't lose - different boats. Both will have ups and downs for each owner - ultimately up to you.. It's getting closer to apples to apples as Tiges quality has improved. It will come down to personal preference which we can't help you with.. Different carpets, different screens..

As always - dealer support is a factor..

For me - the LSV is the ultimate boat but that's only me.

jmanst15 09-17-2013 9:33 AM

LSV all the way. Transfers...no list...Malibu quality...Interior space. Nuff said

CarFanatic5 09-17-2013 9:36 AM

malibu is a 3 piece build right? they bolt the seats in separate correct?

rullery 09-17-2013 9:42 AM

Z3 all the way. Better surf wave...Tige quality...Interior style. Nuff said

Just demo them both as really the only opinion that matters is your own.

CarFanatic5 09-17-2013 9:46 AM

I plan to demo. The malibu dealer is local here, but the tige dealer is local at our lake. I have a baby due in 2 weeks so I dont know if I will be able to get down to the lake soon to demo the tige before its too cold!

rullery 09-17-2013 10:02 AM

I think the dealer plays a giant huge role in your decision. Ultimately if say you are leaning towards the Tige boat, but you are much more comfortable with the Malibu dealer as far as service, dependability and trust I might go with the LSV. The dealer can make or break a new boat owning experience, that is why I would get familiar with the dealers and boats by demoing both if possible.

rullery 09-17-2013 10:06 AM

Surf wise, the Z3 will (arguably) have the higher level competition quality wave, but the LSV will have the surf gate convenience while providing a pretty good wave as well.

CarFanatic5 09-17-2013 10:08 AM

that is a good point. Tige takes care of the first 3 years of owner ship. And the tige dealer is on my lake, so they can come to your dock for most maintenance issues. Malibu is located where I live (3 hrs from the lake) They do sell a lot of boats down there, so I have to find out if they have a service outlet of some kind on the lake.

chattwake 09-17-2013 10:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I took out a '14 last week. Here's my friend (who really is learning to surf) behind the new LSV. We had factory full, 700lbs in each rear hatch, wedge down, 500 in the nose. The wave is awesome. Also, the new actuators allow the boat to switch the wave from side to side way faster than last years.

chattwake 09-17-2013 10:28 AM

He's 6'2 btw, and I took that picture standing in the back of the boat. I was not on the swim platform or hanging over the side trying to make the wave look bigger than it really is. I'm really impressed with the new LSV.

tampawake 09-17-2013 10:31 AM

There is a brand new LSV on our lake and saw it up close for the first time. While its nicer than what I have I was not that impressed. Seemed like the new VLX on our lake is much nicer. Nice boat just thought it would be nicer.

CarFanatic5 09-17-2013 11:11 AM

Chatt,

Wave looks pretty good. Was the weight in the nose hidden? I do not want to have to move bags and have bags exposed anymore. One of the reasons I am moving to a new boat. I"m hoping I can demo the 14 our dealer has.

loudelectronics 09-20-2013 6:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a pic of our Tige Z3 VX from the side.

We ride with LSV's and the wake is good but the z3 with VX is great. There is no longer wake that we have tried (LSV, MC X25, XStar, Z1, RZ2, MB Tomcat 24). Some of the wakes are taller but have steeper transition and shorter depth with less lip. The Tige wake is very long, good transition, very long lip ( can air off any part of the wake up to the roost) and the height matches the length; meaning that you have long enough run to get enough speed to get on top of the wake to get good air. Some of the boats are to tall and not long enough so it is difficult to get good air. They also lack the lip where you need it to boost off.

Just some things to consider. This is why so many people are jacked about the tige wake.

The wake on this Z3 is as long as the boat. Rider is 6'3".

cjh1669 09-20-2013 9:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 (Post 1845290)
malibu is a 3 piece build right? they bolt the seats in separate correct?

Yes, but it's a non issue. Some other brand dealers will try to sell this as a negative, I find it to be a positive if you like a quieter ride. I have yet to hear of seat bases being a failure point.

CarFanatic5 09-20-2013 9:18 AM

ok thanks for the info on the bases.

Bamabonners 09-20-2013 9:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjh1669 (Post 1845926)
Yes, but it's a non issue. Some other brand dealers will try to sell this as a negative, I find it to be a positive if you like a quieter ride. I have yet to hear of seat bases being a failure point.

I have owned two Malibus and I have yet to see any proof that it creates a quieter ride. Granted, I don't think it is a negative either... I never once said, "Dang, I wish I had a two piece boat."

cwb4me 09-21-2013 3:49 AM

I've surfed behind both and the Tige had a longer taller wave with more push. The Malibu had more room inside. Still a demo of both will tell you which one is best for you. Good Luck!

nitrousbird 09-21-2013 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudelectronics (Post 1845888)
Here is a pic of our Tige Z3 VX from the side.

We ride with LSV's and the wake is good but the z3 with VX is great. There is no longer wake that we have tried (LSV, MC X25, XStar, Z1, RZ2, MB Tomcat 24). Some of the wakes are taller but have steeper transition and shorter depth with less lip. The Tige wake is very long, good transition, very long lip ( can air off any part of the wake up to the roost) and the height matches the length; meaning that you have long enough run to get enough speed to get on top of the wake to get good air. Some of the boats are to tall and not long enough so it is difficult to get good air. They also lack the lip where you need it to boost off.

Just some things to consider. This is why so many people are jacked about the tige wake.

The wake on this Z3 is as long as the boat. Rider is 6'3".

Might want to try out a listed 247...looks longer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHr-5..._embedded#t=28

CarFanatic5 09-21-2013 7:15 AM

247 is more then I want to spend.

like the roominess of the malibu. I like the fit and finish in the tige better. both are great boats.

simplej 09-21-2013 7:19 AM

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned mentioned but I HATED the interior of the new 14lsv from a comfort standpoint. The bottom half of the seat backs are hard plastic coated with a vinyl material similar to the dashboard. No cushion, just hard plastic.

CarFanatic5 09-21-2013 7:27 AM

Simplej I noticed that right away... Thats one of the main reasons I thought the interior looked rushed and cheap. the pannels and gaps didnt match up from side to corners. why not just make that a full cushion!

simplej 09-21-2013 8:05 AM

It looks great aesthetically but really cheaps up the whole thing IMO ... And it's not all that comfortable to me

CarFanatic5 09-21-2013 8:09 AM

the other thing I noticed was the side inserts where the cup holders are, are a cheap thin plastic

loudelectronics 09-21-2013 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrousbird (Post 1846055)
Might want to try out a listed 247...looks longer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHr-5..._embedded#t=28

I guarantee that no Malibu can not make a wake that even a 20 foot rzr tige. As mentioned they are always missing something like a good hard lip that runs the length of entire of the wake. It's not a terrible wake by any means but just missing all the characteristics that make wakes great. You have to ride a good tige wake to understand. Not trying to start an argument or anything, just stating facts. Malibu makes great wake board wakes but that same hull just does not make equally great surf wakes.

Also that vid from that perspective is much different from the view I showed. Could be shot with go pro that changes the view.

wakebrdr94 09-21-2013 8:09 PM

Say what you will, but surfgate is the way to go. It will only get better.....
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/69493866" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/69493866">Wakesurfing with Malibu Boats, Surf Gate, Shred Stixx, and slayshTank</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/slayshtank">slayshTank</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

cwb4me 09-22-2013 5:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 (Post 1846095)
Say what you will, but surfgate is the way to go. It will only get better.....
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/69493866" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/69493866">Wakesurfing with Malibu Boats, Surf Gate, Shred Stixx, and slayshTank</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/slayshtank">slayshTank</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Say what you will,but that's your opinion. Others are entitled to their opinion too.;)

CarFanatic5 09-22-2013 6:17 AM

Wonder what the set up was on that malibu

loudelectronics 09-22-2013 6:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 (Post 1846095)
Say what you will, but surfgate is the way to go. It will only get better.....
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/69493866" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/69493866">Wakesurfing with Malibu Boats, Surf Gate, Shred Stixx, and slayshTank</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/slayshtank">slayshTank</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Surf gate is cool no doubt. Will not duspute that.

That said though, I would not use that video to promote a malibu wake as it was not very good. It shows exactly all my points I made earlier. The front half of the wake is at a way to relaxed transition so it is very flat. You want that transition at the bottom that works to at least a lip at the top. Also the back of the wake is tall and has a nice lip but very short so you do not have much pump to get speed to air it out.

Maybe the water was shallow or they did not have it setup correctly but it is not a good video to promote a wake.

Its pointless though. All you have to do is go for a set behind other surf specific boats with an open mind and you will never want to surf behind anything else. It ruined me.

We run a school through out the summer, part of it is actually people bring there boats to me to set up so they know what ballast they need to buy and where to put it. I see all the different brands. Only boat I have not seen yet is a G23. Out of all the boats i have set up, malibu lsv is in the middle of my list to surf behind. The tige, centurion, MB and supreme are at the top. The tige is my favourite as it has the supreme length, lip, drive and pop.

I do not want to sound like I am slamming anyones boat. You have to flaunt what you got and what you can afford. No one can take that from you. We all work hard to buy these boats and you need to be proud of what you own. This is why these posts always get so much heat. Everyone loves there boat so much and absolutely nothing wrong with that. If all you had was a Malibu or MC or even moomba to surf behind and it was all you know, it would be amazing. Just for scenarios like this, where someone is asking for a boat that surfs the best. Hands down the tige makes a better surf wake than any Malibu in the surf department. Its not opinion, it is common knowledge in the industry.

surfdoggy 09-22-2013 7:50 AM

Tristan: That's good to know. I have heard at various times that Centurion, Malibu, Mastercraft, Tige, MB, Sanger, Nautique, Epic, Supra, Axis and a trawler off the coast of Louisiana had the best surf wake. So relieved that you have finally settled the issue with fact, not opinion.

Not slamming your Tige's, but I have one of the few GW Invader deck boats still in existence, and every Tige owner who has ridden behind it has immediately gone home and sunk their Tiges (OK, one guy just sold his), after riding my surf wake. That's fact. Not opinion. Sorry you have an inferior boat, but I am not trying to offend.

wakebrdr94 09-22-2013 9:02 PM

Give it time, it may not be "the best" wave to the hard core guys, bu it will be what pushes the sport to the next level. The ability to do tricks over a transfer, ride the opposite side, etc. grubb may not be the surfer, but the video makes a good point. It's like the guy who wakeboards but can only jump from one side of the wake. Elevating the level of any sport, isn't that what it's about?

http://youtu.be/I4Svhrrd364

johnny_defacto 09-22-2013 9:33 PM

wait.... doesn't Tige have some type of 3 foot hull extender that they were pushing with "game changer" fanaticism for like 37 hours back in spring? what ever happened to that thing?

cwb4me 09-23-2013 3:19 AM

The Convex VX. It extends the length of your wave and cleans it up.All without affecting the wakeboard or ski wake.

wakebrdr94 09-23-2013 6:08 AM

Shouldn't the hull keep it clean for you? Who else needs something like that?

loudelectronics 09-23-2013 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfdoggy (Post 1846121)
Tristan: That's good to know. I have heard at various times that Centurion, Malibu, Mastercraft, Tige, MB, Sanger, Nautique, Epic, Supra, Axis and a trawler off the coast of Louisiana had the best surf wake. So relieved that you have finally settled the issue with fact, not opinion.

Not slamming your Tige's, but I have one of the few GW Invader deck boats still in existence, and every Tige owner who has ridden behind it has immediately gone home and sunk their Tiges (OK, one guy just sold his), after riding my surf wake. That's fact. Not opinion. Sorry you have an inferior boat, but I am not trying to offend.

This is sounding wrong, I get that. I wish I could take people out and show them the differences between each boat. We ride them all, set them all up no matter what the brand and get the best wake out of each.

Not saying Tige is the absolute best surf wake. It is my favourite and that is my opinion. What is fact is that There are a select few manufacturers like Tige, Centurion, MB, Supreme... that make the best surf wakes out there. Malibu and MC got caught sitting on there hands when the surf revolution hit. I am sure they will catch up. Not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but reality is not every boat makes a great surf wake.

cjh1669 09-23-2013 7:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudelectronics (Post 1846202)
This is sounding wrong, I get that. I wish I could take people out and show them the differences between each boat. We ride them all, set them all up no matter what the brand and get the best wake out of each.

Not saying Tige is the absolute best surf wake. It is my favourite and that is my opinion. What is fact is that There are a select few manufacturers like Tige, Centurion, MB, Supreme... that make the best surf wakes out there. Malibu and MC got caught sitting on there hands when the surf revolution hit. I am sure they will catch up. Not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but reality is not every boat makes a great surf wake.

Just like a wakeboard wake it's all opinion. I've surfed both Tige and MB waves and my two favortie waves I've been behind, in this order, are a properly weighted LSV with surfgate, and a leaned VTX that is properly weighted. I felt both had more push than the Tige and the MB. I'm a bigger guy and need more push, so I base it off that. Just because you prefer one over the other doesn't mean they are better. It's all opinion and preference. This debate has gone on for years in wakeboarding and will in surfing too. I'm sure my friends with the tige and MB prefer them to my malibu. All in all to state your opinion as fact is just ignorance.

chpthril 09-23-2013 8:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 (Post 1846200)
Shouldn't the hull keep it clean for you? Who else needs something like that?

Umm, I can think of 3 other manufacturers that recently released a wake enhancing apparatus.

Malibu Surf Gate, Correctcraft NSS and Centurion CATS. All intended to make the surf wake better. Obviously, these manufactures felt that their good surf wakes could be better.......Now, we could also toss in Mastercrafts "Surf Tab" system, Supreme also used 3 tabs and dont forget Centurion's wedge looking surf thing that was moved left or right.

wakebrdr94 09-23-2013 8:36 AM

^^^i should have been more specific. I meant should you really need a huge piece under the swimstep to clean up the wake? I've never ridden a surf wave from a tige, so I'm really curious why that does to help the wave

jarrod 09-23-2013 8:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 (Post 1845290)
malibu is a 3 piece build right? they bolt the seats in separate correct?

Why would that matter?


Go get in a 4 year old Malibu, and then get in a 4 year old Tige to see how the boats have aged. The answer will be pretty clear.

chpthril 09-23-2013 9:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 (Post 1846226)
^^^i should have been more specific. I meant should you really need a huge piece under the swimstep to clean up the wake? I've never ridden a surf wave from a tige, so I'm really curious why that does to help the wave

Should you need a board that swings out from the hull? Should you need a thin piece of steel that extends perpendicular to the hull? Should you need a tracking fin that steers? These manufacturers found these designs to achieve what they where after. Why do these designs help the wake? Well, theres probably a long scientific engineerical explanation. but bottom, line, they delivered what the manufacturer was after.

Tige found their design enhanced the wake in a way they liked.

wakebrdr94 09-23-2013 9:56 AM

Yes, in terms of surfgate or nss, those serve a pretty dramatic function, a wave without listing a boat. From my understanding the tige convex you still need to list the boat in a traditional fashion. So what does it do? I'm not knocking it, just curious about how they work . I mean, centurion has been making great surf wakes for years just by leaning their boat, without the extra convex

CarFanatic5 09-23-2013 10:09 AM

the convex vx, basically lengthens, and cleans up the surface of the wave. It also makes the wave more firm and powerfull, by channeling the drive from the prop into the wave. This is my understanding of it.

wakebordr11 09-23-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudelectronics (Post 1846202)
This is sounding wrong, I get that. I wish I could take people out and show them the differences between each boat. We ride them all, set them all up no matter what the brand and get the best wake out of each.

Not saying Tige is the absolute best surf wake. It is my favourite and that is my opinion. What is fact is that There are a select few manufacturers like Tige, Centurion, MB, Supreme... that make the best surf wakes out there. Malibu and MC got caught sitting on there hands when the surf revolution hit. I am sure they will catch up. Not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but reality is not every boat makes a great surf wake.

You have a flawed reality of what you consider fact and opinion. What makes any of what you say fact? Because some wakesurf championship uses Tige? Is the xstar wake the best over the G23 because they pull the protour?

Your opinion is not fact. In fact, you do not even back up your opinions with fact, just more opinions and common knowledge, which are opinions.......................

chpthril 09-24-2013 4:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 (Post 1846242)
Yes, in terms of surfgate or nss, those serve a pretty dramatic function, a wave without listing a boat. From my understanding the tige convex you still need to list the boat in a traditional fashion. So what does it do? I'm not knocking it, just curious about how they work . I mean, centurion has been making great surf wakes for years just by leaning their boat, without the extra convex

The theory behind the Surf gate and NSS was to NOT have to weight the boat different from wake-boarding, when surfing, but it seems some are finding the best surf wave is achieved with a little list. This means leass or more ballast on one side or the other. As with before these devices, surfers are finding that the goofy and regular side need a little different setup.

ptrenary 09-24-2013 7:33 AM

I have a tige z3 and it has been a fantastic boat. Great surf wake and also a fantastic wakeboard wake. One of my favorite things about it is the interior; it has tons of room and is very deep. Let me know if you have any questions

wakebrdr94 09-24-2013 9:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chpthril (Post 1846356)
The theory behind the Surf gate and NSS was to NOT have to weight the boat different from wake-boarding, when surfing, but it seems some are finding the best surf wave is achieved with a little list. This means leass or more ballast on one side or the other. As with before these devices, surfers are finding that the goofy and regular side need a little different setup.

I'd say less than 10% of owners are setting up the weight differently . I don't have numbers to support that, but between folks on the bucrew and people I've spoken to, I have yet to talk to anyone who weighted the boat unevenly, unless it was a DIY project. But most of those guys are using weight evenly on both sides.

ragboy 09-24-2013 1:10 PM

I got some pics, with various angles, both sides, and just this past weekend. No sacs on seats or exposed. This is just a Z3, with 1235 prop, VX and custom plug and play L shaped sacs, nothing else. 7 people in boat total, 1 was me (huge) and 4 were kids. This is Chase and Dom and RJ riding. This was during some very windy periods, 2 flag warning on Mead and we had to get off the lake for most of the day, but still got some good shots.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2842/9...ef8a6e4a_b.jpg
IMG_3223 by wake9, on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2821/9...3f16fbc3_b.jpg
IMG_3238 by wake9, on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/9...a24a9b2d_b.jpg
IMG_3941 by wake9, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7378/9...250e91d0_b.jpg
IMG_4297 by wake9, on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5327/9...7074b1af_b.jpg
IMG_4675 by wake9, on Flickr

You can see in this one, compared to first picture with chase the wake is setup a bit different, less steep then chase. This was just a taps setting, same weight.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5467/9...d1ca1ba5_b.jpg
IMG_4862 by wake9, on Flickr

These last 2 are frame grabs from video, you can see the boat is not slammed, still several inches for water to get to rub rail.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/9...16f107c9_b.jpg
2013-09-23_21-26-48 by wake9, on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3778/9...8deb3174_b.jpg
2013-09-23_21-27-10 by wake9, on Flickr

Full Disclosure: Our VX and taps are an evolution from what is in production right now, and the plan is it will be available in production in the future. I can't really talk about that yet, but the boat will be running like this at our polar bear event. The new setup make the wake bigger, cleaner, and more push all with less weight.

Lastly, here is a quickie I did of Dom behind the boat.

<iframe src="//instagram.com/p/eoPUAOjnDW/embed/" width="612" height="710" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

CarFanatic5 09-24-2013 1:15 PM

Robert Sent you an email


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:45 AM.