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-   -   Boat Manufacturer Revenue (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799760)

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 11:35 AM

Boat Manufacturer Revenue
 
Just out of curiosity - what do the Mastercraft's, Tige's and Malibu's of the world generate from a revenue perspective on an annual basis. My understanding is that they are all private and I know that number is often difficult to come up with but does anyone know? I would also be interested in their earnings/margin.

MattieK27 08-29-2013 12:42 PM

Mastercraft:

http://www.answers.com/topic/masterc...-company-inc-1

http://www.aplayersearch.com/careers...%20posting.pdf

So between $140-$250 million.

Seriously, all I did was google search "mastercraft boats revenue"....

Another example, Nautique:
(searched correct craft boats revenue)

http://www.insideview.com/directory/correct-craft-inc

$50 million, thats what was reported at least...

lifetimewarranty 08-29-2013 1:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattieK27 (Post 1842049)
Seriously, all I did was google search "mastercraft boats revenue"....


LULZ.....:p

Can you explain these googles?

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 2:19 PM

I have used the google once or twice before. I found similar results - I guess I should have been more clear as I was looking for insider numbers. Someone who actually knows (employee, partner, salesperson, etc.) since they are not publicly released numbers. I wanted to see how they compare in size to each other and ultimately what their profit margin is.

sidekicknicholas 08-29-2013 2:42 PM

http://bit.ly/16UvdaV

MattieK27 08-29-2013 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatboypimp (Post 1842079)
I have used the google once or twice before. I found similar results - I guess I should have been more clear as I was looking for insider numbers. Someone who actually knows (employee, partner, salesperson, etc.) since they are not publicly released numbers. I wanted to see how they compare in size to each other and ultimately what their profit margin is.

People won't even share pictures of boats coming out in two weeks, you really think someone is going to share private revenue numbers on a wakeboarding web site? (As if anyone on here would know in the first place)

Best of luck with the endeavor...

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattieK27 (Post 1842085)
People won't even share pictures of boats coming out in two weeks, you really think someone is going to share private revenue numbers on a wakeboarding web site? (As if anyone on here would know in the first place)

Best of luck with the endeavor...

Forgive me for asking such a stupid question.....It must be tough when you are always the smartest guy in the room and you have to tolerate us idiots. Go bother someone else.

Anyway - If anyone has any information that isn't protected by the CIA I would still be interested in knowing.

MattieK27 08-29-2013 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatboypimp (Post 1842092)
Forgive me for asking such a stupid question.....It must be tough when you are always the smartest guy in the room and you have to tolerate us idiots. Go bother someone else.

Anyway - If anyone has any information that isn't protected by the CIA I would still be interested in knowing.

Smartest guy? Nah, not me; I would be curious to know what it's like to be so sensitive though. I figure with a screen name like phatboypimp, you would have some thicker skin...

Dare I ask why you are after this info, since the published numbers don't seem to be fitting the bill?

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 3:38 PM

One of my clients is a Partner in a Private Equity firm. Since he knew I was passionate about Wakeboarding he was asking me if I knew what the difference was in scale between the major manufacturers. I said I didnt - so I thought I would ask a population of people who live and often work around this industry. Apparently there is a well known manufacturer that is shopping for either a bridge loan or to be put up on the block for sale. My client isn't interested in the deal but we were just talking about it socially so I just thought I would ask since I couldn't find any current information online.

BTW - my response has nothing to do with the thickness of my skin - it has to do with me not understanding why someone would take the time out of their day to respond to a post where they clearly didn't have the answer to the question, insult my approach to research and ultimately tell me that my question is stupid. My feelings arent hurt - I just don't understand why you would waste the time to do that.

cwb4me 08-29-2013 3:43 PM

Don't be so sensitive Matt. He only asked for real figures not internet figures. The girls must love you ...Smart and sensitive!

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1842103)
Don't be so sensitive Matt. He only asked for real figures not internet figures. The girls must love you ...Smart and sensitive!

My Pimp Hand is strong! :D

Ewok01 08-29-2013 3:56 PM

Phatty,

If your friend is really in an equity firm then he would know those numbers are a closely guarded secret by those companies if they are privately held, and nobody who works for any of those companies is going to spill the beans on this well known public website if they want to keep their jobs.

The most interesting thing I've learned from your question though is that MC, Bu or Tige is shopping around for a loan or possibly up for sale. Bu just came out with surf gate and MC has released the Xstar so the only company I can think of, rumor wise, that might need some capital for R&D is Tige with the rumored RZ2ish new wakeboarding specific new boat coming out with R&D help from Rathy. Sounds like they are working on something big and I can't wait to see it.

MattieK27 08-29-2013 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewok01 (Post 1842107)
Phatty,

If your friend is really in an equity firm then he would know those numbers are a closely guarded secret by those companies if they are privately held, and nobody who works for any of those companies is going to spill the beans on this well known public website if they want to keep their jobs.
.

Bingo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1842103)
Don't be so sensitive Matt. He only asked for real figures not internet figures. The girls must love you ...Smart and sensitive!

Ah Robert, always a pleasure to see your additions to threads.

JetRanger 08-29-2013 4:02 PM

If it's one of the good brands like Nautique or MC shopping for a buyer I should get my old man to buy them. Then maybe I could finally get a decent picture of a G surf wave or a Star wakeboard wake.

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewok01 (Post 1842107)
Phatty,

If your friend is really in an equity firm then he would know those numbers are a closely guarded secret by those companies if they are privately held, and nobody who works for any of those companies is going to spill the beans on this well known public website if they want to keep their jobs.
.

This discussion has moved a little off topic. He is a Partner in a well known Private Equity firm - we both recognize that these number are not published and are typically not available for public consumption. I would also assume that if there was an employee who held this information that if they released it in a public forum it could prove to be unhealthy for their career at that company. I also recognize that for the most part - this site works on anonymity. I should have asked my question better - as an x-employee or someone who works within the ecosystem of these boating manufacturers - they might have some insight. Honestly, I assume that my client probably has access to this information in their database from the Penske/Mastercraft deal back in 09 but it piqued my interest. Although they do not publish this information - just like in the industry where I work - people still have reasonable estimates of financial performance of private companies. This really was a simple question......I didn't realize that I had to address all of these obvious concerns people are raising.

MattieK27 08-29-2013 5:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatboypimp (Post 1842115)
Although they do not publish this information - just like in the industry where I work - people still have reasonable estimates of financial performance of private companies. This really was a simple question......I didn't realize that I had to address all of these obvious concerns people are raising.

If all you are after reasonable estimates, I would suggest looking at the links from sales websites and supplier position profiles. They will get you in the ballpark. Your statement above seems to be a bit different than the "I was looking for insider numbers" statement you made prior...

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 5:05 PM

I found a number of "units sold" details but I couldn't figure out the average selling price for the different brands. In actuality I was hoping that some guy that worked at Mastercraft for example would know how big Malibu was but if I could get real insider numbers I would take those :). I am honestly sorry I asked at this point. I am fighting a gnarley hang-over and this was a lot more interesting to research than doing my real job. Lesson learned.

boardman74 08-29-2013 5:33 PM

Its going to be really tough trying to tell by units sold. None of us have any clue where that margin might be. I can tell you margin from dealer cost to MSRP, those numbers are pretty easy to find. But trying to find what a manufacturer actually puts into a boat that i have never seen. I would love to see that. I know cost for a few of the manufacturers and am amazed at what kind of money a dealer could make selling at MSRP. In most cases north of 25%. I would like to see what the manufacturer actually has into that boat. As is MSRP is 75K....dealer cost is 50K...actual cost to build is????

The mark up on the boats is ridiculous!!

Jmorlan 08-29-2013 6:03 PM

If I may,

Can I get some insider information of why on earth you actually chose to call yourself phatboypimp?


Sent from my futuristic Apple device while in my office doing nothing.

markj 08-29-2013 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatboypimp (Post 1842123)
I found a number of "units sold" details but I couldn't figure out the average selling price for the different brands. In actuality I was hoping that some guy that worked at Mastercraft for example would know how big Malibu was but if I could get real insider numbers I would take those :). I am honestly sorry I asked at this point. I am fighting a gnarley hang-over and this was a lot more interesting to research than doing my real job. Lesson learned.

A gnarly hangover at 4:05 pm? Dude... Also, I would never trust info like that to be accurate from this or any site like this. X2 on the reason why you call yourself phatboypimp. Maybe you have a wild sense of humor?

Ewok01 08-29-2013 7:01 PM

The markup seems ridiculous but none of us have seen the books from dealers or the manufacturers. Building boats is labor intensive and very low volume by automotive standards so economies of scale do not help boats like they do for the automotive industry. Boats are also a luxury item so people (generally) will not buy them if they cannot afford them, which means they follow the basic ups and downs of an economy, so manufacturers need to maintain some cash to continue to operate in the lean years (like Ford, unlike GM and Chrysler).

BL: Before I say that prices are ridiculous I'll need to see all the facts to know what I'm talking about.

phatboypimp 08-29-2013 7:54 PM

I have no expectations that gathering information from a site like this would be used to justify some kind of investment decision - I was just curious. I do a lot of work researching companies and reading financial statements and I was just curious. In one of the other threads someone was talking about how an xstar used to be $35K and now it is $100K+ over a relative short period of time. Like Ewok was saying - this is a labor intensive manufacturing process but that is an massive increase in sales price for fundamentally the same boat. I get they have a lot more features and higher quality (likely) over that time period and I am sure they have improved their processes and cost of manufacturing.

As it relates to the Phatboypimp name - I gained a nickname in college of Fatboy and I thought that Phatboy looked much better. At that point Phat meant cool (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=phat) Soon it became my Yahoo IM name and later my email alias. Later when I was looking to create an account online - phatboy was already taken and the registration system volunteered phatboypimp. I found it to be ridiculous and so it stuck. 15 years later I still have it.

By the way - my hangover at 4:05pm wasn't from drinking today - lol - it was from a very late night last night.

grant_west 08-30-2013 7:31 AM

All I know is Phatboy Pimp knows how to Rock it and has some serious Michale Jackson Moves. His PIMP game is tight and you Sucka Foo's betta step back.
BTW some Phat Boy Pimp Triva . the HBO documentary "Pimps Up Hos Down" if you have ever seen it. Phat Boy Pimp came up with the Saying "Reckless Eyeballin" this guy has some serious street credit. church!

psudy 08-30-2013 7:53 AM

"By the way - my hangover at 4:05pm wasn't from drinking today - lol - it was from a very late night last night"

Well there is your damn problem. Get back on that horse! lol.

newty 08-30-2013 8:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant_west (Post 1842223)
All I know is Phatboy Pimp knows how to Rock it and has some serious Michale Jackson Moves. His PIMP game is tight and you Sucka Foo's betta step back.
BTW some Phat Boy Pimp Triva . the HBO documentary "Pimps Up Hos Down" if you have ever seen it. Phat Boy Pimp came up with the Saying "Reckless Eyeballin" this guy has some serious street credit. church!

Lol... I just fell out of my chair!

ers906 09-05-2013 10:28 AM

Back on topic, I believe that the dealers can purchase a stock G23 for 86,000 (at least the 2013 models). I believe that it is the options which really drive the dealer profit through the roof.

xstarrider 09-05-2013 11:18 AM

If any of these companies went public nobody would be paying 100k for these boats once they saw the profits. Just sayin

xstarrider 09-05-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewok01 (Post 1842138)
The markup seems ridiculous but none of us have seen the books from dealers or the manufacturers. Building boats is labor intensive and very low volume by automotive standards so economies of scale do not help boats like they do for the automotive industry. Boats are also a luxury item so people (generally) will not buy them if they cannot afford them, which means they follow the basic ups and downs of an economy, so manufacturers need to maintain some cash to continue to operate in the lean years (like Ford, unlike GM and Chrysler).

BL: Before I say that prices are ridiculous I'll need to see all the facts to know what I'm talking about.

Boats haven't followed the economy at all. They have gone while everyone's income has been decreased. Well almost everyone's. the dredges of society get more free stuff than ever nowadays so they have gotten raises along with the politicians who don't become part of the programs they institute for everyone else.

riddick 09-05-2013 11:28 AM

http://www.marineproductscorp.com/Pr...&Validate=3&I=

That will give you a rough idea.

redsupralaunch 09-05-2013 11:37 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is some industry wide sales figures. Rolling average so if 10,000 were sold in 2008, today would only be about 5,000. - (just estimating I don't have exact# infront of me) That's why prices are thru the roof. http://www.info-link.com/BellwetherR...iBoat&time1=12

Supravol22 09-05-2013 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddick (Post 1843271)


Dude is that the same website that we included in that Finance Paper? HA. That thing was A+ material

riddick 09-06-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supravol22 (Post 1843275)
Dude is that the same website that we included in that Finance Paper? HA. That thing was A+ material

Oh yeah! It's really intuitive. Like an Iphone.


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