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-   -   Surf Stock or Loaded Myth Busted (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799700)

mattscraft 08-25-2013 8:28 PM

Surf Stock or Loaded Myth Busted
 
Tons of talk that you can't free surf these boats with stock ballast.

Here is proof you can surf MC X boats with stock ballast

http://youtu.be/jyNg6GIU9U0

xstarrider 08-25-2013 8:45 PM

I am glad you're stoked. The 30 is a great boat. Lets be real here. You can surf almost any 23 foot boat stock and do exactly what that rider just did. It's like riding a stock wakeboard wake. Can you hammer out all your tricks on a stock wake? For most people yes. Is it more fun loaded up YOU BET! It's what happens when you toss in weight and amp it up to the next level. Some boats excel and others don't. Up until this year MC boats didn't excel in the surf category. They were mediocre at best. The verdict is still out in the 30 competing with the elite surf machines from other MFG's when you weight it up to the next level.

mattscraft 08-25-2013 9:00 PM

Not a X30, shot with a X25, is it better with extra, sure which we mention this in the video.

We surfed our X2 the first year we had it with stock and no tabs.

Case and point, the wave is really good with stock and tabs!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JetRanger 08-25-2013 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xstarrider (Post 1841181)
I am glad you're stoked. The 30 is a great boat. Lets be real here. You can surf almost any 23 foot boat stock and do exactly what that rider just did. It's like riding a stock wakeboard wake. Can you hammer out all your tricks on a stock wake? For most people yes. Is it more fun loaded up YOU BET! It's what happens when you toss in weight and amp it up to the next level. Some boats excel and others don't. Up until this year MC boats didn't excel in the surf category. They were mediocre at best. The verdict is still out in the 30 competing with the elite surf machines from other MFG's when you weight it up to the next level.

There was a thread earlier where it was consensually decided that the X30 had the best surf wake. I believe it was a X30 v. G23 thread. I'd link to the thread but I really don't care enough plus I doubt you have the ability to read. I'd rate your credibility on this forum below that of CWB4ME and Chattawake.

Please tell us more about this verdict you speak of...

fman 08-25-2013 9:21 PM

Matt, not to take away your hype on the X-25 but there are other boats on the market that you can "surf ropeless" on stock ballast. Malibu being one of them, see the attached video. It is a 2013 21' VLX Surfgate equipped with no extra weight other than three of the four hard tank ballast filled (no bow ballast filled in video). In all fairness, not sure about the wedge if it was being used, but that is a simple touch of the screen to deploy.

When you click on the video and scroll down it will give the exact ballast setup.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TqY7oCK5oE

mattscraft 08-25-2013 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fman (Post 1841189)
Matt, not to take away your hype on the X-25 but there are other boats on the market that you can "surf ropeless" on stock ballast. Malibu being one of them, see the attached video. It is a 2013 21' VLX Surfgate equipped with no extra weight other than three of the four hard tank ballast filled (no bow ballast filled in video). In all fairness, not sure about the wedge if it was being used, but that is a simple touch of the screen to deploy.

When you click on the video and scroll down it will give the exact ballast setup.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TqY7oCK5oE

Athlete
Professional wakeskater with support from Billabong, Hyperlite, Red Bull, Malibu Boats, Zeal Optics, and Performance Ski and Surf. I wakesurf sometimes too

Not a fair comparison - Again the point, many say you have to have extra ballast to free surf, our goal was to prove this as inaccurate, and have some fun at the same time. Not here to say BU or any other boat won't be able to get the same results with a decent set up.

Am I a devote MC guy, you bet, screen name says it all, but I do love all inboards, competition is good!

wakebordr11 08-26-2013 5:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattscraft (Post 1841194)
Athlete
Professional wakeskater with support from Billabong, Hyperlite, Red Bull, Malibu Boats, Zeal Optics, and Performance Ski and Surf. I wakesurf sometimes too

Not a fair comparison - Again the point, many say you have to have extra ballast to free surf, our goal was to prove this as inaccurate, and have some fun at the same time. Not here to say BU or any other boat won't be able to get the same results with a decent set up.

Am I a devote MC guy, you bet, screen name says it all, but I do love all inboards, competition is good!

I don't get your point. You can surf my inboard tige with less ballast than you had in your stock setup, you can also surf an IO, you didn't prove anything. I've seen people surf stock Nautique 210s and 230s without NSS...:rolleyes:

mattscraft 08-26-2013 6:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1841212)
I don't get your point. You can surf my inboard tige with less ballast than you had in your stock setup, you can also surf an IO, you didn't prove anything. I've seen people surf stock Nautique 210s and 230s without NSS...:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Back at you, exactly what you said, you can free surf these boats (inboard) with stock ballast:banghead: We free surfed my '09 X2 stock, 150 lbs port, 250lb KGB.

I really hope you are not surfing in and I/O.

tn_rider 08-26-2013 6:33 AM

This thread is pointless...

xstarrider 08-26-2013 6:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetRanger (Post 1841185)
There was a thread earlier where it was consensually decided that the X30 had the best surf wake. I believe it was a X30 v. G23 thread. I'd link to the thread but I really don't care enough plus I doubt you have the ability to read. I'd rate your credibility on this forum below that of CWB4ME and Chattawake.

Please tell us more about this verdict you speak of...

Says the guy who hits every MC thread with nonsense. They are some really entertaining comparisons that have made me chuckle

Listen I have never heard anyone say you can't surf an MC with stock ballast. The 06 -present X2 , and old x30 both surfed. Hell almost any boat with weight will surf enough to get you ropeless. Matt came on here and posted up a video to stir it up a bit about a topic which anyone knows is not a myth. The new MC boats finally have an above mediocre surf wave. Since the 25 came out it was regarded as to go to boat in MC's line with best surfable wave in their line and arguably the best wakeboard wake at the time of its introduction. The 25 was good, but still not able to be up in the mix for a pro level or even advanced surfwave. Now the newly realeased x10 and 30 MC have finally made the push to the surf category. With the 46 possibly being even better. However until this you would never recommend an MC boat to anyone interested in a surf specific boat til 2013. And yes the verdict is still out for me. I have surfed every Enzo in the line, Avalanche, RZR, Z3 , Z1 , RZ4, X45 pickle XStar, X2, X25 , X15, X30 ( pre 13) , Supreme 230, LSV, VLX, and an A22 all loaded up. There are clear front runners and none were in the MC line. This year was a huge year for MC and the response performance wise of their two new boats the the X10 and 30 is huge. I won't get into the star because that is a total different animal. Again the verdict is still out in the pro level performance as I have not experienced and not heard the word of people I trust to officially tag it as that. Does it mean its not true??? No ........I just won't agree till I have enough info to back my statement up. Simple as that. My comment was just that surfing a stock boat isn't a big deal. Maybe to a beginner or someone purchasing their first wakeboat ever, but anyone who does this on a regular basis knows u need weight period. The way the boat responds to that weight makes it/ranks it as surf boat not its stock wake.

xstarrider 08-26-2013 7:06 AM

And my alpologies to Matt for screwing up the boat model. I had no sound and just figured it was the 30 since that seems to be the most talked about surf wave these days.

I forgot to throw the two new G series boats in the "surfed" comments.

jmanolinsky 08-26-2013 8:41 AM

I used to surf behind a Mastercraft 209 direct drive with no ballast. With one big sack on the surf side it was even more surfable.

timmyb 08-26-2013 9:56 AM

I don't know why people always claim that you can't surf with stock ballast, that's total bs. I bought my RZ2 in '07 and it didn't come with ballast and we were free riding with using only 3 people on the surf side to get it to list over. Does ballast make it better? You bet! All kinds of people are surfing just fine with stock ballast systems from all boat mfr's.

shawndoggy 08-26-2013 10:19 AM

I'm pretty sure the myth that you can't surf stock ballast is in fact itself a myth. Well played OP, well played.

You have also busted the myths that mastercrafts sink on contact with water and that youtube only plays porn.

cjh1669 08-26-2013 10:26 AM

It's all relative. The lighter you are the easier it is to surf waves with less ballast. The fact that I'm 235lbs I need a larger more pushy wave. I can scramble in smaller waves, but I'm constantly having to pump to stay in the pocket.

timmyb 08-26-2013 11:09 AM

It can be the wave OR the board. :) Doesn't matter anymore, as Shawndoggy has posted, we figured out that "the myth that you can't surf stock ballast is in fact itself a myth" and he's right! Someone who was trying to convince their wife that they needed more ballast made that up.

fman 08-26-2013 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattscraft (Post 1841194)
Athlete
Professional wakeskater with support from Billabong, Hyperlite, Red Bull, Malibu Boats, Zeal Optics, and Performance Ski and Surf. I wakesurf sometimes too

Not a fair comparison - Again the point, many say you have to have extra ballast to free surf, our goal was to prove this as inaccurate, and have some fun at the same time. Not here to say BU or any other boat won't be able to get the same results with a decent set up.

Am I a devote MC guy, you bet, screen name says it all, but I do love all inboards, competition is good!

I understand you are cheering for your brand, we all do....

However, your "video and text" in your message implies to others that MC is the only boat that you can "free surf" on stock ballast. At least this is the way I was interpreting it. The video was just to show someone surfing ropeless on a factory ballast wake. As I mentioned, I have seen videos of MB, Tige, Centurion, etc... with people free surfing on factory ballast.

fman 08-26-2013 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xstarrider (Post 1841220)
Says the guy who hits every MC thread with nonsense. They are some really entertaining comparisons that have made me chuckle

Listen I have never heard anyone say you can't surf an MC with stock ballast. The 06 -present X2 , and old x30 both surfed. Hell almost any boat with weight will surf enough to get you ropeless. Matt came on here and posted up a video to stir it up a bit about a topic which anyone knows is not a myth. The new MC boats finally have an above mediocre surf wave. Since the 25 came out it was regarded as to go to boat in MC's line with best surfable wave in their line and arguably the best wakeboard wake at the time of its introduction. The 25 was good, but still not able to be up in the mix for a pro level or even advanced surfwave. Now the newly realeased x10 and 30 MC have finally made the push to the surf category. With the 46 possibly being even better. However until this you would never recommend an MC boat to anyone interested in a surf specific boat til 2013. And yes the verdict is still out for me. I have surfed every Enzo in the line, Avalanche, RZR, Z3 , Z1 , RZ4, X45 pickle XStar, X2, X25 , X15, X30 ( pre 13) , Supreme 230, LSV, VLX, and an A22 all loaded up. There are clear front runners and none were in the MC line. This year was a huge year for MC and the response performance wise of their two new boats the the X10 and 30 is huge. I won't get into the star because that is a total different animal. Again the verdict is still out in the pro level performance as I have not experienced and not heard the word of people I trust to officially tag it as that. Does it mean its not true??? No ........I just won't agree till I have enough info to back my statement up. Simple as that. My comment was just that surfing a stock boat isn't a big deal. Maybe to a beginner or someone purchasing their first wakeboat ever, but anyone who does this on a regular basis knows u need weight period. The way the boat responds to that weight makes it/ranks it as surf boat not its stock wake.

This is the most impressive list of boats tested by one person I have ever seen, almost seems like a full time job just getting out on all of those boats! I wish I had your free time to demo that many boats...

mattscraft 08-26-2013 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fman (Post 1841309)
I understand you are cheering for your brand, we all do....

However, your "video and text" in your message implies to others that MC is the only boat that you can "free surf" on stock ballast. At least this is the way I was interpreting it. The video was just to show someone surfing ropeless on a factory ballast wake. As I mentioned, I have seen videos of MB, Tige, Centurion, etc... with people free surfing on factory ballast.

Not saying that at all Travis.

Opening statement - "Tons of talk that you can't free surf these boats with stock ballast."

Now do I go on to say MC, yes, this is the only brand I have owned in an inboard. So can I speak for other brands, I cannot, nor have I ever come on here and bashed other brands, as I said before, I am an MC guy and proud of it. For that matter I don't spend a lot of time on this forum, mostly read on TT, and thought what the heck, post it over here too and see what people think.

The original idea/motivation to create this video was that every post I see when someone ask the question "is this a good surf boat, wake boat etc.??? The response about any of the boats seems to me anyway "as long as you are putting like 9000lbs (Exaggerating) of ballast" it's a great boat.

Lastly, amazing all the flames right out of the gate - Y'all seem to have a lot of hate in your heart, let it out.:D

Not a single comment about the rider platform launching no rope, hand stand and 360 and return to the platform without falling and with stock ballast, wow...

Enjoy your time on the water and your boats fellas, Peace

MattsCraft out.

P.S. There will be a second video shot from the same day, needs to be edited, with the boat slammed and switching side to side. No sense posting it here, but you can search for it on You Tube in a few days if your interested.

xstarrider 08-26-2013 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fman (Post 1841311)
This is the most impressive list of boats tested by one person I have ever seen, almost seems like a full time job just getting out on all of those boats! I wish I had your free time to demo that many boats...

It was my job for a while ;). Worked in industry for a long time and made great friends along the way. Just couldn't afford to give up the time anymore. Family first.

xstarrider 08-26-2013 7:26 PM

No one is hating on you , your boat , or on MC. They are just pretty much telling you that your made up myth of nit being able to surf an MC with factory ballast isn't some huge revaluation that you are portraying it out to be. They are also pointing out the fact other mfg's can do it and have been doing for longer. You basically come out of the gate firing off a challenge with your topic claiming everyone is a naysayer about MC and their surf capabilities. Then when they point it out you claim it as hate. No one has ever said you can't surf an MC boat with regularity on this forum that I have ever read. What they have said , myself included, along with several teamtalk members and mc owners in the past , is MC really wasn't the top boat of choice for an exclusive surf machine. I still stand by that statement as I type this.


As far as not giving props to the rider and tricks. Those are pretty much the standard first 3 tricks everyone I know that's ever rode a surfboard learned. Right behind catching a beer , opening it, chugging it, and continuing to surf. Again not bagging on the rider or his tricks. He's solid, performed them flawlessly, and surfed a great short set for the video to give you an idea of what can be done. Those standard tricks are not going to get most people all psyched up. Again great boat, and good riding. Enjoy it. It's just not anything new or mythical.

Fixable 08-27-2013 5:20 AM

ITT-
1-OP notes, that it is a constant statement on WW, that a lot of boats can't be surfed with stock ballast. (which, in fact, is a common misconception here. no doubt about that.)
2-Op happens to own an MC, and uses it for the demonstration.
3-Blood boils deep inside the hearts of the WW haters and fanboys, and the pointless banter ensues.
4-OP tries to explain.
5-Ignorance continues.
6-Swatguy repeats himself again.

Information, like this, might have been helpful to somebody that is still under the impression that you can't surf a stock boat....... And now the OP will never post anything educational or helpful here again. Probably the #1 reason why this forum is the most useless forum for good information on wakeboats. All of the helpful people have left because they are tired of this type of $hit....

rbeckei 08-27-2013 6:26 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Calabria Pro V 2 stock ballast. starboard side 1/2, port side full, trim plate all the way up
Second picture, full stock ballast. 350 pound beside engine on port side and 350 on seat port side.

mattscraft 08-27-2013 7:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xstarrider (Post 1841376)
No one is hating on you , your boat , or on MC. They are just pretty much telling you that your made up myth of nit being able to surf an MC with factory ballast isn't some huge revaluation that you are portraying it out to be. They are also pointing out the fact other mfg's can do it and have been doing for longer. You basically come out of the gate firing off a challenge with your topic claiming everyone is a naysayer about MC and their surf capabilities. Then when they point it out you claim it as hate. No one has ever said you can't surf an MC boat with regularity on this forum that I have ever read. What they have said , myself included, along with several teamtalk members and mc owners in the past , is MC really wasn't the top boat of choice for an exclusive surf machine. I still stand by that statement as I type this.


As far as not giving props to the rider and tricks. Those are pretty much the standard first 3 tricks everyone I know that's ever rode a surfboard learned. Right behind catching a beer , opening it, chugging it, and continuing to surf. Again not bagging on the rider or his tricks. He's solid, performed them flawlessly, and surfed a great short set for the video to give you an idea of what can be done. Those standard tricks are not going to get most people all psyched up. Again great boat, and good riding. Enjoy it. It's just not anything new or mythical.

We're not worthy, We're not worthy... We suck:p

Whatever - You're welcome to come down and ride with us to show your stuff anytime:D

stephan 08-27-2013 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattscraft (Post 1841320)
Not saying that at all Travis.

Opening statement - "Tons of talk that you can't free surf these boats with stock ballast."

Now do I go on to say MC, yes, this is the only brand I have owned in an inboard. So can I speak for other brands, I cannot, nor have I ever come on here and bashed other brands, as I said before, I am an MC guy and proud of it. For that matter I don't spend a lot of time on this forum, mostly read on TT, and thought what the heck, post it over here too and see what people think.

The original idea/motivation to create this video was that every post I see when someone ask the question "is this a good surf boat, wake boat etc.??? The response about any of the boats seems to me anyway "as long as you are putting like 9000lbs (Exaggerating) of ballast" it's a great boat.

Lastly, amazing all the flames right out of the gate - Y'all seem to have a lot of hate in your heart, let it out.:D

Not a single comment about the rider platform launching no rope, hand stand and 360 and return to the platform without falling and with stock ballast, wow...

Enjoy your time on the water and your boats fellas, Peace

MattsCraft out.

P.S. There will be a second video shot from the same day, needs to be edited, with the boat slammed and switching side to side. No sense posting it here, but you can search for it on You Tube in a few days if your interested.

I think you have the perception that WakeWorlders are out of touch or clueless. Your assertion that there is "tons of talk" is bull. Where? Here? Anyone with experience knows that you can surf almost any boat without ballast.

Its not hate at all. Everyone just pointed out that you spent a lot of time telling everyone what they already know. Xstarrider didn't say anything that isn't already commonly known, Mastercraft has lagged in the surf department. To bag on him for speaking the truth is ridiculous. All boats are, in fact, better with more ballast.

As for the talents of your rider. Thats awesome, but your thread wasn't about "hey check my kid out, he rips". It was, "you folks need to learn something and I'll be the one to teach you, here's a video". As for the kid, he does a sweet 360, but a handstand? Really?

pprior 08-27-2013 10:12 AM

I own a 2013 X30. The wake stock is not exciting at all. Yes you can surf it, but it really opens up with another 700lbs in the back locker. anyone serious about surfing will not surf this boat stock, end of story.

mattscraft 08-27-2013 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fixable (Post 1841409)
ITT-
1-OP notes, that it is a constant statement on WW, that a lot of boats can't be surfed with stock ballast. (which, in fact, is a common misconception here. no doubt about that.)
2-Op happens to own an MC, and uses it for the demonstration.
3-Blood boils deep inside the hearts of the WW haters and fanboys, and the pointless banter ensues.
4-OP tries to explain.
5-Ignorance continues.
6-Swatguy repeats himself again.

Information, like this, might have been helpful to somebody that is still under the impression that you can't surf a stock boat....... And now the OP will never post anything educational or helpful here again. Probably the #1 reason why this forum is the most useless forum for good information on wakeboats. All of the helpful people have left because they are tired of this type of $hit....

Well said my man, well said!

Cheers to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shawndoggy 08-27-2013 5:20 PM

Man I read this thread totally differently.

1. OP purports to "bust" myth that stock weight can't be surfed.
2. OP posts vid of very very tiny wave that doesn't look like much fun at all being surfed by a rather skilled gent.
3. WW informs OP that myth he busted wasn't a myth at all, and says his wave doesn't look like much fun
4. OP gets butthurt and threatens not to share any more of his awesome videos
5. New thread commences showing various people surfing on factory weight, just to rub OP's nose in it (I mean really guys, isn't that piling on?)

WakeDirt 08-27-2013 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawndoggy (Post 1841581)
Man I read this thread totally differently.

1. OP purports to "bust" myth that stock weight can't be surfed.
2. OP posts vid of very very tiny wave that doesn't look like much fun at all being surfed by a rather skilled gent.
3. WW informs OP that myth he busted wasn't a myth at all, and says his wave doesn't look like much fun
4. OP gets butthurt and threatens not to share any more of his awesome videos
5. New thread commences showing various people surfing on factory weight, just to rub OP's nose in it (I mean really guys, isn't that piling on?)

He DID come in a lil hot with this thread...my stock 06 MB Team 23 surfed really well... Better than the wake in this thread's leading video

v10rider 08-27-2013 9:54 PM

I still don't get the purpose of this thread. I thought this horse was beaten to death many moons ago

cwb4me 08-28-2013 3:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v10rider (Post 1841639)
I still don't get the purpose of this thread. I thought this horse was beaten to death many moons ago

He has been. The wind blew and moved one of his legs. Immediately people thought the horse was still alive. Hence the beatings will continue.:D

deuce 08-28-2013 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fixable (Post 1841409)
ITT-
1-OP notes, that it is a constant statement on WW, that a lot of boats can't be surfed with stock ballast. (which, in fact, is a common misconception here. no doubt about that.)
2-Op happens to own an MC, and uses it for the demonstration.
3-Blood boils deep inside the hearts of the WW haters and fanboys, and the pointless banter ensues.
4-OP tries to explain.
5-Ignorance continues.
6-Swatguy repeats himself again.

Information, like this, might have been helpful to somebody that is still under the impression that you can't surf a stock boat....... And now the OP will never post anything educational or helpful here again. Probably the #1 reason why this forum is the most useless forum for good information on wakeboats. All of the helpful people have left because they are tired of this type of $hit....

Fixable's post breakdown -

1 - Apparently agrees with the original post.
2 - The OP only has one educational thing to post on WW, thus will not be posting again. Or has really thin skin, can't pinpoint that part.
3 - Wakeworld is a useless forum related to any good information on wakeboats
4 - In the 10 months since he/she signed up, all helpful people have left. Presumably, because others had opposing opinions on things they posted("$hit?).


;)

deuce 08-28-2013 7:28 AM

Just in case you did not catch the fun sarcasm, that sometimes does not translate well over written word, no offense intended....it's the interweb for God's sake....and I am neither a helpful poster....and this is a useless forum as far as Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles go anyway....so please take all that above with a grain of salt.

fman 08-28-2013 8:03 AM

I think when he bought his X25 the dealer told him only a MC can surf without extra weight because of these amazing surf tabs. He needs to have some thicker skin, I don't think anyone was flaming him. More like educating him that MC is not the only boat capable of achieving what his X25 did.

Love the guys passion for his boat, and I am a huge fan of the X25 its a sick boat.

Ewok01 08-28-2013 9:45 AM

IMO, the reason this thread is getting everyone worked up is because the OP presumes there has been an injustice done to the MC brand in regards to wake surfing in general. I don't post here much but I've been lurking on this site since 2006 and the general consensus has been that MC boats in general have not been able to produce nice surfable waves with stock ballast or have sub par waves even with additional ballast. Perhaps the OP didn't realize the sub-par surf reputation of MC prior to the X-25, X-30 and X-46 (all look to produce nice waves BTW) and took it upon himself to set the record straight that the reputation is a myth and MC can produce a surfable wave with stock ballast.

Unfortunately for the OP, this thread is having the same effect as if I started a thread which states "You can't wakeboard behind a Bayliner myth busted" and posted a little video of someone behind the Bayliner. (No offense to Bayliner, my last 2 boats were Bayliners)

I will say this thread has been very entertaining to read and the video was fun to watch.

whiteflashwatersports1 08-28-2013 10:11 AM

5 Attachment(s)
2012 Tige RZR stock surf ballast, driver and 1 passenger- its nice what this 20 footer can do out of the box. The lake is only 8ft deep.


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