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-   -   International sale (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799487)

boardman74 08-10-2013 8:07 PM

International sale
So I listed my boat last night and had a buyer call about the boat today. They said the boat is exactly what they are looking for and asked a bunch of questions and then wanted to start negotiating over the phone having never seen the boat. I was nice and explained I thought it was a bit out of line to start low balling me having not even seen the boat. The person explained they were from canada and were ready to buy sight unseen if we agreed on a price. We did end up agreeing on a price and they want to drive down and pick the boat up in person this coming Wednesday. I am a little leary as they are so far away and from Canada. Does anyone have experience with a situation like this. I am running the transaction thru my dealer so that makes me feel a little better. Also we will be going directly to my lender and clearing the loan and then directly to transfer the title as they stated they have to have the title in their name to get across the border. I don't have any clue how that works and thats really their thing not mine. I worry they are rushing to get the title changed prior to a scam being detected.

My question is what do I need to do to protect myself against any known scams. The buyer has a US bank and would draw the funds from there(Wells Fargo). Do I dare accept a cashiers check even if the dealer and myself verify it thru the bank? The buyer wasn't to keen on the idea of showing up with almost 60K in cash. Short of asking them to pay in cash how can i be sure?

iamcdn 08-10-2013 8:54 PM

I can't see any issues with a cashier's cheque. Did they say where in Canada they were from?

boardman74 08-10-2013 8:59 PM

Area code is Alberta.

idaho_hillbilly 08-10-2013 9:58 PM

I've sold a boat and travel trailer to Canadians. Both times I had the buyer transfer the money into my account. I would wait until the money has been transferred to your account before you finalize the deal. I would NOT take a cashiers check, they can be cancelled, common scam with Canadian purchases. I guarantee that your bank will not release the title, if the money isn't collected.

iamcdn 08-10-2013 10:01 PM

Glad to know about the cashiers cheques. I am not well versed in buy/selling stuff, good to know. It's a little bit of work to bring a boat into Canada, so if they aren't being really picky with you about different things like the title and bill of sale then I would be suspicious.

parkerbomar 08-10-2013 10:54 PM

common scam. bail

boardman74 08-11-2013 6:16 AM

Parker what is a common scam? Never heard of a scam where the people show up in person and want the deal to take place at a licensed dealership so they have all the proper paper work to get back across the border.

@iamcdn...they did have alot of questions about title and a 72 hour waiting period etc. Stuff I sure didn't know the answers too.

sandm01 08-11-2013 6:29 AM

I would think if there's a bank loan, nothing is happening until they are 100% satisfied they have the cash. let the dealer and the bank run the transaction. that's what you're paying them for. if they are legit, their bank in the us should be contacting your bank on monday and working out the details.

sit back and enjoy the ride.

parkerbomar 08-11-2013 7:45 AM

Some C-list scams involve the person meeting you getting the item and the money payment fails.

Involve the bank and there should be no issue. avoid checks, western union, paypal. etc...

Midnightv10 08-11-2013 8:17 AM

If the buyer is planning on paying with funds from a US Bank (Wells Fargo) why cant you two just go down to the bank, he can withdraw the cash, hand it to you, and then you can do whatever you want with it... turn it into a cashiers check payable to yourself, open up a checking account right there at the bank and deposit it, etc...

as far as scams go, it sounds to me as though the buyer is just trying to work the system to his advantage to get the boat back into Canada

Indyxc 08-11-2013 8:23 AM

He can pay with a cashier check just call Wells Fargo and verify the check is real or better yet just go to the bank and verify in person.

bstroop 08-11-2013 8:36 AM

When I sold my last boat I had two different buyer from Canada willing to wire me a deposit to hold the boat while they drove down to get it. Don't feel like it's a scam unless they start the whole "well wire you extra money to cover shipping" or "my client agrees to your price" without anyone laying eyes on the boat.

Don't be worried. Just make sure the money clears before the boat leaves.

boardman74 08-11-2013 2:48 PM

Thanks for the advice. I am going to have a conversation with the dealer in the morning and see how they want to do it as any checks will be made payable to them. Whatever their standard procedure is with a buyer paying with outside money(not financing) is what we will go with. That is what I will inform the buyer is the way its going to be done. If the dealer is ok with a cashiers check form a local bank than I will trust his advice. The check will be made out to him and then he will have to cut a check to the Credit Union to clear the title. So as it involves him and he is the professional I will let him dictate how the sale is handled. If he says things are good I feel I can trust that.

Got another call today from a US buyer, but one that is also about 12 hours away. If the canadian falls thru they want to come Saturday. Not sure I am any better off with that as it will be hard to verify funds on a Saturday and my credit union is closed. I guess on a weekend payment would have to be cash.

beretta5spd 08-11-2013 3:58 PM

I am a Canadian and have bought two boats from the USA in the last two months. One in Phoenix, and one in Austin, TX. There is very little in Canada (especially western Canada) in terms of used tow boats on the market. Both times I just took cash. That's WAY easier than waiting for a wire transfer (can take days).

Please don't automatically think its a scam. I drove over 30 hours both ways for these boats and didn't do much haggling over price. We are just crazy enough to go for something when we want it

csherbo 08-11-2013 6:49 PM

I also live in Canada and bought my boat in the US. Much better availability and pricing. The title does have to transfer to bring it across the border etc. I paid via wire transfer, but it was to a dealer on a used boat, not a private sale.

However, there are a ton of scams out there. I happen to have my boat posted on craigslist and kijiji right now, and I am catching all kind of scammers contacting me, even texting me. They typically ask a simple question, and then are offering to buy sight unseen and their shipper will pick it up. I'm in Ontario and one scammer claimed to be in Michigan (flipped from your scenario), and was going to send it overseas to his son. These are all scams, and where the scam is hidden is in the payment method. They are usually identity thieves and make what appears to be a legitimate payment, that they overpay you for, and ask for you to refund the difference. However, your refund is the only legitimate part. They scam you for a few thousand and never take the goods. If someone is actually coming to see the boat, I would push for cash (although you can't bring more than $10k across the border).

Good luck.

boardman74 08-11-2013 7:10 PM

Sounds like cash is the way to go. Especially when Canadians who have come here to buy are saying thats the way to do it. The buyer did say they have a US account and could get the funds once they are here so they should be able to get cash then.

I have sold stuff before and ran into that scam you are talking about. They didn't try any of that. Didn't say anything about shipping. Had legitimate questions that a tow boat buyer would have about wake, ballast, , stereo, surfing etc. Sounds like they are a legit buyer, but I am always skeptical and just want to make sure its done right. I know they want to be able to leave with the boat so cash is in their best interest also to clear the title as quickly as possible. They want to inspect prior to paying(which makes sense) so waiting for a wire transfer or the bank to clear a cashiers check I know can take days. I would be more nervous if they wanted to pay up front without seeing the boat.

So we will see tomorrow. I am always the pessimist selling as their are so many flakey buyers. I always assume there is a 50% chance I will never here from them again or they will never show when they say they will. If I sold every item that someone "bought" over the phone or email I'd sell everything 6 times over. You know they guy..wants to negotiate never having seen your item. Then get directions and says he will be there around 2....then never shows up. Or says he will call tomorrow(like my current buyer) and you never hear from them again.

Good thing is I now have 2 back ups(at least they say so for now). 2nd one wants to come Saturday, so either this one gets here by Wednesday or I will have to offer to the next one. I wish I could just say first one here with cash gets it, but none of the options have been closer than 10 hours. Is it pretty common for people to drive so far or is my deal that good that its worth it too?

iamcdn 08-11-2013 7:20 PM

Sounds like it will be good to go. Plus, those Albertans all have money LOL

Iceberg 08-11-2013 7:39 PM

Well here is the deal, it is probably real. Bank Drafts made out from a Canadian bank in US funds are always payable from a subsidiary US bank and can not be cancelled after you receive the cheque, period. However, you need to ensure the cheque/draft is real. It will usually clear in a few hours to a day, depending on who you bank with or where you are. It can take longer with a wire transfer, but with you having a loan to pay off, the buyer would be foolish to wire you money without a title held by a legitimate 3rd party and being aware of their duty to act as an agent for the sale. On my last boat sale I took cash because I ended up clearing the loan at the bank in a 3 way transaction and I had a limited window to go pick up the boat. I got the 3rd degree at the boarder due to the money I was carrying - way more than $10k. The customs and boarder agents counted each bill and marked the serials down as well! It feels a bit funny driving around with $30,000 in small bills. You don't want to be jacked enroute to the sale. My previous boat purchase was via a draft/cheque and it cleared in 15 minutes at the local Wells Fargo Bank (owned by TD-Canada Trust). My F-250 diesel truck was paid via wire transfer and my other cars were via bank draft/cheque.

The new owner doesn't really need the title for the boat, but the trailer title is required. However, having the boat title with a loan clearance letter or a clean title will make it easier on the new owner at the boarder. Some states and counties are very slow to process changes. The Canadian, does not need the title changed to their name in you selling state either, you can treat them as a dealer for endorsing it to them on the title.

2 new cars, 1 truck, 2 boats, 1 skid steer 1 horse trailer and about 500 other purchases. It seems like I am supporting the US economy more than many locals!

As well, some provinces will reimburse the buyer the provincial sales tax paid when importing a used boat (not the trailer) if purchased from a private seller. In this case, since the buyer is from Alberta, this is not a player for your sale; especially if you use a retail outlet as the intermediary.

In any case, ensure the draft/cheque clears before it leaves your possession.

flatbroke 08-11-2013 8:57 PM

I too can say that when I was selling the Centurion, I had that the guy from Canada ( the West side) was willing to drive down 14 hrs to pick up our boat because of limited supply up there. He seemed legit, and when I said that I wanted cash for the deal to happen, he had no problem with it. A guy from Modesto beat him to it, but had the "local" guy flaked, I would have sold it to the Canuk in a heartbeat. Just have to make sure the deal is legit. Bank to bank wires are very legit. Bank to "Nigeria" wires = sketchy. The bank that is holding title on your boat will not let it go unless they have their money. I say do it.

idaho_hillbilly 08-11-2013 11:40 PM

I had a guy drive 14 hours to buy a travel trailer. Had another guy drive 10 hours to buy my ski boat. I live 1.5 hours from the Canada border, and we get a lot of Canadians buying in our area. The price for the same product is so much higher in Canada. It's well worth it for them to travel a long distance to buy our cheaper products.

LTRGUY261 08-12-2013 7:15 AM

I just sold a used quad to a guy from BC last week. It was a smaller purchase for sure (I was asking $1700) but he called asked lots of questions, wanted pics and came to a price aggreement. I told him I would hold it for a about a week and he offered to send a deposit. Sure enough he showed up on the agreed upon date and on time with cash for a quad. It was a 20 hour drive to get it.

Out of curiosity I got on the Canadian CL and was shocked to see similiar quads selling up there for more than double what I was asking!

I think you are going to be fine, just keep doing what you are doing. Communicate with the buyer, let him know cash would be the easiest best option for you, the bank, and him. If they are legit and want the boat they will not scoff at that idea.

wakebordr11 08-12-2013 8:02 AM

Why are you selling your boat anyway... Chatt is that you???

tyler97217 08-12-2013 9:58 AM

I have sold many boats to Canada and if you cover your bases your risk is minimized. If you live by the border, you will get Canadian hits. I will not take a cashiers check written off of a Canadian bank. They are usually held for 10 days. I ALWAYS make them wire money in advance. Or if they want to come down and see it first then make sure they are staying for a day or two and have their banker available over the phone to do the Wire. Sometimes an international wire can take longer so make sure they are prepared to stay in town until the wire is complete. If the cashiers check is truly drawn on an American Bank, then go with them and get the cashiers check so you know it is good and then deposit it right away.
Really the bottom line is it sounds like your dealer is handling the transaction, so you probably are not risking much. Sounds like the dealer is taking the responsibility if the payment is going to be made to them.
Drop me a PM if you want to chat offline and go through everything..... You will also need to call the trailer manufacturer and give them the VIN and provide you with a "letter of no recall" so they can take it across the border.

08-12-2013 10:17 AM

Do NOT do a check. Bank to bank wire transfers are easy and cheap (20.00 or so fee). If he has the money then he should have no problem doing a wire transfer.

boardman74 08-12-2013 10:39 AM

Just talked to the buyer and they are fine with cash. Quickest easiest way i know!!

bwake 08-13-2013 2:52 AM

I'm from New Zealand (search a map) and imported a boat from ca.

The hardest thing was actually dealing with the boat sellers thinking we somehow were going to rip you off by sending you money. We got there in the end but probably got brushed off by maybe 5/6 sellers.

In many cases you will probably get a better idea as its so much cheaper to import than buy locally, so the potential buyer may not haggle so much.

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