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-   -   Ballast Pumps (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799140)

hunter660 07-17-2013 11:22 AM

Ballast Pumps
 
With the size of ballast bags getting larger and the amount of weight people run in their boat increasing, why has no one come out with faster pumps? What is the limiting factor?

chpthril 07-17-2013 11:54 AM

There are faster pumps available, what GPH is your reference? Cost and size are too huge factors with faster pumps.

hunter660 07-17-2013 11:57 AM

I guess I should have been more clear. Looking for a reversible impeller type pump.

boardjnky4 07-17-2013 12:50 PM

reversible impeller pumps already pull a lot of amperage to run. to go any higher on the motor would be a real strain on the electrical system.

hunter660 07-17-2013 12:52 PM

That was my assumption. I guess I will stick with aerator pumps then.

wdr 07-18-2013 6:24 PM

I am surprised no one has jumped all over this one. IMHO aerator pumps are the Yugo's of the ballast pump world, Yes they work but if you can afford a Mercedes why not get something better. When I had them filling my 750 and 1100 you could time the fill times with a calendar. Jabsco and Johnsons are both reversible just look for the deals in the off season. I have the Johnson and love the simplicity of the whole set up and the amperage draw is only a couple more amps. IIRC it was like 5A vs 7.5A. They are noisier but I honestly don't notice it unless I am listening for it and the speed more than makes it worth the cost.

hunter660 07-18-2013 6:28 PM

Your saying the impeller pumps are faster than the non reversible even though they are rated lower?

wdr 07-18-2013 6:41 PM

The Johnson I have replaced an 2x 800 Pirhanas with 3/4 lines for fill/drain and yes way faster. Probably 1/2 again as fast. I am sure you can get an aerator pump that will get you close, but they are such a PITA in so many ways from what I have experienced so far. I am running 1" lines now so it hasn't exactly been an apples to apples comparison, but I would never go back to aerator for any reason even cost.

chpthril 07-18-2013 6:43 PM

Hay Bill, how about some details? What aerator pumps are you comparing the impeller pumps to? Better as in how? A typical aerator is 3-5 amps draw and a typical impeller pump is 12-15 continuous and up to 20 peak at start up. Aerator pumps require little to no maintenance, so they are almost bullet proof. Both pump types have their pros and cons, but I would hardly call an aerator pump the Yugo of ballast pumps.

wdr 07-18-2013 7:03 PM

Mike, maybe I over dramatized a bit and sounded like a reversible pump snob. I can not honestly say that the stock Pirhana 800 aerator pumps that I have in my LSV are bad or worse than the reversible, merely slower with a lot more parts and pieces when it came to the install of both. I have yet to experience a failure of either one, but I have had a few pieces of bark jam up the aerator pumps, so they are simple to deal with. You can rip me to shreds if you start throwing the specs at me as my results are not the results of highly scientific and documented results, just seat of the pants and stop watch and not an apples to apples comparison like said earlier :) I will just say for me personally, the reversible has far exceeded my expectations of an after market pump, enough for me to not consider using aerators in another application. I not a tech heavy guy so I am sure there are aerators that would spec out better, but the reversible is/was so much simpler for me for what I needed it for.

chpthril 07-18-2013 7:14 PM

Bill,

a typical impeller pump has about the same GPM as an 800 GPH aerator pump. factor in the head pressure that the aerator has to deal with, and yes, the impeller can be faster. Also, since you upgraded to the 1" hose and probably upgraded to the larger 1" sac or tank fittings, this is actually where the gain in flow rate is found. A typical .3/4" OD sac/tank fitting has an ID of 5/8". When upgrading to the larger hose and larger fittings, this is where you really see the increase in flow rate,

wdr 07-18-2013 7:25 PM

Mike, I've got to agree to all of the above and IIRC the Johnson was only rated for @ 600 GPH or slightly more. I guess when I get right down to it the real advantage, for me at least was the ease of installation and less associated parts of the 1 reversible pump over the 2 aerator style pumps. I realized it would be faster with the 1' hose I guess I just didn't realize how much faster.

hunter660 07-18-2013 7:29 PM

I'm not concerned with extra parts. I want speed. The only sac I need to fill is for surf and it will be around 1000 pounds. I don't want it to take 20 min. My plan right now is 2-3 T1200 pumps for both fill and drain.

wdr 07-18-2013 7:35 PM

9:30 seconds with one reversible with 1" line run thru a "Y" valve for 1x 1100 FH sack in my surf side locker (goofy). It is not filling to a full 1100 due to locker size most likely 900-1000.

Pad1Tai 07-18-2013 7:38 PM

I have 1 inch lines coming off my johnson and jabsco reversible pumps it takes 8-10 minutes to fill my #1100... 1 1/4 inch thru hull fittings.. The size of the hose is everything on the reversible pumps.. 3/4 is like trying to suck down a Wendy's Frosty with a straw...lol

owasco08 07-19-2013 7:13 AM

For comparison purposes, we installed (2) T1200's to fill and (2) to empty a 1450lb Enzo sac. 1" fill lines and 3/4" drain lines. Fill time is just under 7 mins. We haven't timed the empty for some reason. We are under 10mins, though. Not cheap. All in about $1050 uncluding the sac. We prob could have shopped around a little more and cut the costs on some of the plumbing hardeware. Defintiely happy with the results, though.

bass10after 07-19-2013 7:20 AM

I agree w the original statement. I've looked everywhere for something reversible and came to the same conclusion. The guy who can fill a 750# sac in 3 min will be a millionaire. Current isnt that big of a deal. We have stereos that pull 200-300 amps. In sure some factory stereos are close to 100amps. If you had a 40amp pump that ran for a couple min would be way less strain than something typically ran all day. I've been holding off on a ballast system because I don't want to fork over the cash for a reversible that fills what I perceive to be at a slow rate.

FunkyBunch 07-19-2013 7:36 AM

My experience is the reversible pumps even though they are rated slower work better.

Just installed to Johnson pumps in my boat to fill the rear 750 bags. I had an existing system that used aerator pumps with a scupper on the bottom of my boat. I did not want to do a major conversion on the bottom of my hull to remove the scupper I left one aerator pump to fill my front bag. for the rear bags I left the existing 3/4inch hose and connections to save on my conversion. 1inch would get me better results but the cost did not make sense in my case.

The pump running the front bag is a rule 1100 similar to the T1200. The rule is filling the stock 650 ski locker bag. My front bag is always slower to fill by minutes than the rear bags plus the aerator pumps has to primed to get it pumping. I have the same experience draining the bags the front bag is always minutes slower than the rears. Just to give some times it take about 5 minutes to fill the 750's and 10+ for the front bag to fill.

nick_in_ssp 07-19-2013 7:54 AM

I have 1200 tsunomi pumps for my system and love them. Had one problem with to much water sitting on top of a flop gate check valve but made an adjustment in where it was in the line and now it works flawlessly. As for the ski locker sac or bow sac i put another pump in line with the fill hose at the front of the boat. So essentially one pump is pushing water and one pump is pulling water.


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