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-   -   Help making my boat throw a good wake!!! (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799013)

rplogue7 07-09-2013 7:59 PM

Help making my boat throw a good wake!!!
 
So my mom bought this super sweet boat about a year ago (2006 mastercraft Maristar 200vrs w/tower and 890 lbs of ballast) and I've been shredding it for a while. Always had trouble getting wake to wake, but i thought it was my poor skills that were limiting me. After going to a wakeboard camp for a week and learning a variety of inverts ,, (not even kidding) behind a centurion, I realized that my wake was kinda lame. After doing a small amount of research, I found that I could optimally add more ballast to the boat, but with the tanks full it takes a speed of about 26-28 to make a lame wake that's cross able STILL. I also have a boat prop for water skiing, which is probably screwing up the wake as well.. Costs about 550$ to correct that. I believe the prop on the boat is a TR , would switching it to an ACME really help the wake?

Thanks for reading guys, I'm 16 and just got a sponsorship from gopro and I'm trying to make my home setup sick as can be to continue my progression! Thanks!!!

boardman74 07-09-2013 8:42 PM

Prop isn't going to make any difference to the wake size. I am not super familiar with that hull, but if you have to go 26-28 to clean it up with less than 900 lbs of weight something in your set up is way off. First off at that speed the hull is probably flattening out making the wake way smaller. You need to slow way down. Start around 22.

How is your weight balanced? I am guessing from what I know of MC's that boat will probably like front weight. So if you have like 300/300 in the back then just 290 in a midship floor locker you are going to be way out of balance. You should be around 60/40 or maybe even closer to 50/50 with most Vdrives.

rplogue7 07-09-2013 8:50 PM

There is one thing I did forget to acknowledge, the front/middle tank has a worn down impellor and we had just gotten it fixed so we could pump up the tank. The boat at camp had the platform sunk by a Solid 2-3 inches and three the best wake I've ever ridden on, even with a centurion (2012) so to get that rampy wake, and sink the platform, what would i have to do? Also I noticed the wake on my boat is much wider and it's frustrating to cross it, and the wake is white-washed at lower speeds (lower than 26 or so) so will more ballast correct the white-washing and make the wake not as wide? I appreciate the advice by the way!

Orange 07-09-2013 9:09 PM

One, I would check the calibration on your speedo. Shrimp boats should produce a clean wake at 26. If yours isn't I'd say there is a very high chance your speedometer is reading a much higher speed than you are actually traveling.

Two, worry less about sinking your platform and more about how the boat is balanced. If you are focused only on the back of the boat, you may weight the rear of the boat too heavy and the nose too light. A tail heavy boat will tend to require a higher speed for a clean wake than it would if the weight were more balanced. I'm not familiar with that particular Mastercraft, but a good starting place is 60% of your weight in the rear and 40% in the nose.

Earlier post nailed it on prop. The prop has close to zero impact on the shape or size of the wake. If you have a prop meant for skiing, its designed for higher speed and may take longer to get on plane than if you spent the money on a prop meant for wakeboarding, but once on plane the wake would be identical. I'd say save your money for something else.

boardman74 07-10-2013 6:04 AM

So lets start with placement. What weight do you have where? Like orange said, do you know if your speedo is accurate?

dezul 07-10-2013 6:14 AM

All good info in this thread so far.

dezul 07-10-2013 6:22 AM

Also, does the boat have perfect pass? I highly recommend you check the speedometer for accuracey before you do anything.

skiboarder 07-10-2013 6:36 AM

Sac on each side of the motor and one up the bow. Run it at an actual 23mph or so at 75ft and you should be money. It is that simple. I rode on that hull for a few years. If you ride 70 don't be afraid to drop the speed a half mph.

jaybee 07-10-2013 9:26 AM

I am pretty sure it is now a X2 with the tower and stock ballast. Look up the X2 fly high kit. It adds about 1600 lbs.

chattwake 07-10-2013 9:46 AM

There is a big difference between this hull and the 205v hull.

07-10-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1832674)
There is a big difference between this hull and the 205v hull.

I think he is talking about the new x2 pickle fork hull is the same as this guys 06' 200 maristar

bruizza 07-10-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman74 (Post 1832579)
Prop isn't going to make any difference to the wake size. I am not super familiar with that hull, but if you have to go 26-28 to clean it up with less than 900 lbs of weight something in your set up is way off. First off at that speed the hull is probably flattening out making the wake way smaller. You need to slow way down. Start around 22.

How is your weight balanced? I am guessing from what I know of MC's that boat will probably like front weight. So if you have like 300/300 in the back then just 290 in a midship floor locker you are going to be way out of balance. You should be around 60/40 or maybe even closer to 50/50 with most Vdrives.


I always thought that was the case until I bent my 1235 at Powell last year and had to put the 537 back up on the boat. I couldn't get the wake to clean up at all with any ballast in the boat. We had 8 people in the boat and the wake was just wash no matter what. Add ballast more wash. Speed up wash, slow down wash, dump ballast wash, play with the Taps wash. Ended up we could basically ride at 23 with no ballast and it would clean up decent enough to hit the wake. That is just my experience but the prop made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in the wake shape and size and our ability to run ballast. The boat would plane out with ballast etc... but the wake would never clean up. Once I got the 1235 back on there I haven't had this problem again.

Dmac420sj 07-10-2013 1:08 PM

Talk your mom into slinging that pos and go but another boat.

robandrus 07-10-2013 2:13 PM

I've had several boats with that same hull. A couple of Tri-Stars and a 225 vrs. With the rounded transom its nearly impossible to get a nice lip on the wake. I had about 3000 lbs of ballast in the 225 and still couldn't get a wake I really liked, and it wanted to porpoise with all that weight. In any case, hate to say it but you'd be way better off selling it and getting an old X-star or Prostar 205v. They should be around the same price as what you'd get out of yours. You'll be happy you did.

robandrus 07-10-2013 2:15 PM

Ok, I miss read it. Your profile says you have a 2009 X-2. Totally different boat than a 200vrs

07-10-2013 2:17 PM

I would start or search a thread about weight a new mastercraft X2 pickle fork and see what people say. Tons of people are getting great wake from that/ your hull.

wakebordr11 07-10-2013 3:00 PM

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319966
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?p=903173

I'm no pro, but these wakes look pretty decent to me...

polarbill 07-10-2013 3:33 PM

Pretty sure a 2006 and newer X2 is the same exact boat as a 2006 and newer Maristar 200VRS.

dvsone79 07-11-2013 5:38 PM

I think weight or lack thereof is your primary problem. You say you've got 900lbs total? That is probably what you should have in your bow. And 750 sacs in the rear lockers. You don't have to fill them all the way up, but get at least 500 on each side.

LYNRDSKYNRD 07-11-2013 7:28 PM

Give wakemakers a call.

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rplogue7 07-13-2013 8:37 PM

Hey guys, sorry have not been active on the forum for a couple days. It IS a 2006 200vrs which I have been told is the hull of a mastercraft x-2.. As far as props go, I'm sure I have a skiing prop because the original owners we bought the boat from had purchased the boat for skiing and used the boat for it as planned. The frustration between the boat and me is unbelievable. I am so frustrated with the small and unpredictable wake size that only cleans up at high speeds, I haven't even ridden on the boat in over a week. I walked in the pro shop today and asked if I could try out some ballast bags to see if they would help the wake. He said he would lend me 2 bags 450 lbs each for the back lockers. This would make my total ballast around 1800 lbs. Would adding this much ballast to my boat have a possibility of perfecting the wake or getting rid of the wash? I'm really anxious and I'd like to thank everyone who has given me advice in this thread.

rplogue7 07-13-2013 8:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It's hard to tell you guys these problems without showing you what I'm dealing with. It doesn't look terrible, but I need to know if I can work with it. This is riding about 24-25 which is wayyyy too fast but It was the necessary speed to clear the wash.

Full stock ballast in this one, no extras. 900 lbs, 75 gallons in the midship/front locker and the rest in the back two compartments in tanks.

shawndoggy 07-13-2013 11:20 PM

so what's wrong with that wake?

LYNRDSKYNRD 07-14-2013 4:26 AM

Those bags should help you out but the wake should also be cleaner at slower speeds with the stock ballast. If you add both those bags in the rear you will most likely need more weight up front too.

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boardjnky4 07-14-2013 5:22 AM

Is the 24-25 confirmed via GPS? My perfect pass used to be off by 3mph, which would make sense here

simplej 07-14-2013 5:22 AM

That wake looks fine... Slow down and shorten your rope.

LYNRDSKYNRD 07-14-2013 5:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardjnky4 (Post 1833495)
Is the 24-25 confirmed via GPS? My perfect pass used to be off by 3mph, which would make sense here

Agree that you need to confirm your speed with a GPS before you do anything else.

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wakebordr11 07-14-2013 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rplogue7 (Post 1833468)
It's hard to tell you guys these problems without showing you what I'm dealing with. It doesn't look terrible, but I need to know if I can work with it. This is riding about 24-25 which is wayyyy too fast but It was the necessary speed to clear the wash.

Full stock ballast in this one, no extras. 900 lbs, 75 gallons in the midship/front locker and the rest in the back two compartments in tanks.

When you say necessary speed to clear wash, do you mean clean wash? How long is your rope, do you know for sure if its that long? I can't believe someone who can do a krypt into the flats can't clear that wake........

sean_obrien 07-14-2013 8:18 AM

Definitely use GPS to confirm your speed. You can download a speedometer app for your phone and use the GPS that's built in to reasonably assess your speed (assuming you are able to get a decent signal). Boat speedometers are notoriously inaccurate unless they are GPS based. It should also be noted that you'll need to ride at different speeds behind different boats due to varying wake shapes and widths. Whenever I ride on somebody else's boat, I let the wake dictate my speed and sometimes my rope length.

Now lets talk about weight, wake size, and progression. In general, more weight = bigger wake, but that doesn't always mean faster progression. Sometimes it actually means less control and bigger crashes. It is really important that you rely on good technique to improve your riding rather than bigger wakes. Just by looking at your photo, I can tell you that your wake isn't stopping you from doing the basic inverts and several of the harder moves. (Just so you know, it looks like your driver may be turning and that definitely doesn't help.) I pretty much learned everything on a direct drive ski boat with 2 fat sacs. Your wake looks way better than what I grew up with.

So in order to progress... ride as much as you can. The more time you spend on the water, the better you get. Take some lessons if you need some help. Film your riding and review the footage. From there, compare it to instructional videos or good examples of whatever trick you are working on. Lastly, don't ever have the mentality that your wake isn't good enough. That just hurts your confidence, which will get in the way of your progression.

Hope that helps.

rplogue7 07-18-2013 8:36 PM

Thanks guys, threw about 900 lbs in the tanks today and rode out this morning. I was able to throw some sweet tricks in to the flats. I'm so grateful for everyones help!

wakebordr11 07-18-2013 9:55 PM

What did we do to help? What did you do different with your weight, line length and speed?

scottb7 07-18-2013 9:57 PM

Slow down to like 20 mph and the boat will settle into the water and actually make a bigger wake....you will still have to weight somewhat

rplogue7 07-19-2013 8:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1834530)
What did we do to help? What did you do different with your weight, line length and speed?

You guys tipped me on how ballast should be about 60% in the back, 40% in the front. I put two 450 lb bags in the rear back lockers, and two 270 lb bags in the bow lockers. This kept the boat Nice and balanced, and the weight in the front seemed to help get the wash to go away a bit. I also discovered, (or my mom did) that the speedo was about 4-5 mph fast. So about the previous speeds I mentioned, 25-26 was actually 21-22, etc. All in all, the boat works great and I'm now getting the use of it to its full potential.

Chuch 07-19-2013 8:27 AM

Most productive thread in a while on WW. LOL

shorewake 07-22-2013 12:57 PM

Best advice I ever got was research the norms then tweak to your boat. I ride behind a 1985 American Skier (for the time being) with a flyhigh pole. This boat was considered one of the best tournament ski boats in the 80's. Which means little to no wake when on plane. My boat is small and light compared to yours. The best way I found to get the wake where I wanted it was having someone in the boat move around to different areas of the boat and you will see the wake adjust. From doing this I have weighted and found the ideal spots to the point where I've learned 360's frontside and backside behind this boat and a friend of mine throws flips behind it when we really weigh it down. BTW no fat sacks in my boat. 12" pvc pipe 4' long capped on both ends with a drain and fill valve (plus a seat built around it) and 4-4" pvc pipe x 3' long that are filled with water no drain or fill valve they are always full.


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