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-   -   Tuning new stereo system (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798943)

boardman74 07-04-2013 4:18 PM

Tuning new stereo system
 
So I followed the suggestions on another thread that had a very similar set up to what I installed. I am not a stereo guy so tuning is pretty greek to me. Hoping I just need to get things dialed in to perform how we want it to.

Here is my set up. Clarion deck.

WS HT-6 running 4 XS-650's and 1 XS10FA

Here is where I am at: Deck is zero'd out.

Channel 1/2(rear inboat XS-650s) Hi-pass. Cross set to around 90 htz. Gain is at about 35%

Channel 3/4(front in boat XS-650's) Hi-pass. Cross set to around 90 htz. Gain is at about 35%

Channel 5/6- XS-10FA bridged. Low Pass. Cross set to 100htz. Gain is about 50% and BB is about 20%.

Everything is working and is loud and clear. Issue is there seems to be way to much high(super clear) and not much bass. Seemed like I had more bass with the 4 inboats just off the deck, though not as loud or clear. That was with the bass turned way up on the deck. Guess I thought I would get alot more bass out of the sub with 300 watts to it. Hoping this is a tuning issue.

Also will be running a set of Rev8's off a HT-4 but they aren't up yet.

UNvisible 07-05-2013 4:15 PM

your cross over is set too high for the sub. does your head unit have a sub control?

04avyboarder 07-05-2013 6:35 PM

Try leaving 1-4 on high pass, but drop cross over to 80htz. Leave 5/6 on low pass and drop cross over to 40htz.

chpthril 07-05-2013 7:12 PM

80Hz on the hi-pass side is fine, but lowering the 5/6 chnl low-pass cross-over to 40 Hz doesn't increase the amount of material the sub reproduces, it narrows it. This would leave a 40hz gap between the sub and full-range speakers.

david_e_m 07-05-2013 8:00 PM

At the lowpass crossover point (say 40 Hz for example) the output is already cut by -3dB (half power). Any/all 10-inch woofers have begun a soft roll-off above 40 Hz and roll-off aggressively below 40 Hz. A -3dB (F3) at 40 Hz would be a typical natural roll-off. So by using a 40 Hz lowpass the woofer is attenuated to only 1/4th power at best and sharply declines in output above and below that point. Under those circumstances the woofer is going to produce major distort before you can get high amplitude. The meat of the bass (strongest amplitude, yet below what is considered midbass) is 50 Hz to 80 Hz. You don't want your woofer to miss that.

David

boardman74 07-06-2013 7:48 PM

David I love your right ups, but man you lost me at soft roll off!! LOL

So I think I am going to try setting the 650's at hi-pass and 80Hz. I think they are around 90 Hz now

The sub I will set at 80Hz and low pass.

Should that be good? I don't really understand all of it but I think I am starting to catch on. The bass is on the low end of the Hz scale and the Highs on the higher scale. So the lower the number the more I lose from the high end of the spectrum. Am I correct in my thinking?

How exactly does the gain work. I know the more I turn it up the louder it gets. How much is it safe ti turn it up. From what i read it says to turn it up till it distorts then back off slightly. Right now my 650 gains on channels 1-4 are only set to about 30%. Does that mean I am only using 30% of the 110watts per channel to those speakers? As in they are only seeing say 35 watts each?

BradM07SS 07-07-2013 4:45 AM

Different decks have different pre-out voltage.

Most Clarions decks are only a 2 volt pre-out so you would set your gain a little higher than most.

I have a clarion 746 eq with 7 volt preouts so my gains are hardly turned up at all.

Here is a pretty good way to set your gains to be sure your getting the most out of your amps un-clipped.

http://knowledge.sonicelectronix.com...lti-meter.html

david_e_m 07-07-2013 7:40 AM

[QUOTE=boardman74;1832032]David I love your right ups, but man you lost me at soft roll off!! LOL

"Soft roll-off": Take a standard 12 dB per octave crossover filter for example. It is half power (-3dB) at the crossover point. Eventually the filter functions by reducing the output by 12 dB per octave, or in other terms, a continuous 16 times power reduction per every octave. However, the filter requires about a third to half of an octave where it begins to roll-off on a gradual, softer, shallower slope before it filters at a strict 12 dB slope. That means that a 40 Hz lowpass filter begins softly reducing the ouptut well below 40 Hz, or about 32 Hz. Crossover filters are not brick walls. They have graduating impact over a certain frequency range.

David

david_e_m 07-07-2013 7:55 AM

The above DVM tuning method is good if you know the exact amplifier power at a certain voltage supply into a certain impedance. If your amplifier is giving you bogus power ratings, as many do, then this can be dangerous, not to mention the HU or EQ voltage. It's safe as long as the specs are known for all components and completely legit. In that case, it is a conservative method since a 0 dB source is the highest gain a signal can be on a CD but real music content is not likely to achieve 0 dB. Pros will use this method to begin with on known equipment but always finish up by ear. The other falacy is that if you set all channels of all amplifiers via this method, the high and lowpass, and various speaker positions, will be imbalanced. Again, ultimately you have to have a step-by-step, sequential presciption for finishing by ear.

David

boardman74 07-07-2013 7:58 AM

Brad I do have the clarion deck, but I am running a Kicker ZXMRLC dual zone remote control/Preamp and that has a 9 volt preout to the amps. So that may be why the amp gains are pretty low.

David I think I understand. So if I have my filter at 80Hz, in the real world it really is working at 72 Hz. So I shouldn't go any lower than 80Hz on the filter.

Am I correct that the lower I go the more High/treble type sound the filter takes out?

boardman74 07-07-2013 8:05 AM

David,

As to your tuning method post. Right now I have the system tuned where it sounds good to my ear. I think I have it tuned very conservatively and not anywhere close to 100%. Will this hurt anything? In my mind I think I am running it easy, just want to make sure it doesn't hurt anything running it to low. Current set up now is:

Clarion deck set to all 0
Kicker ZXMRLC which provides a 9 volt preout
WS Ht-6: Channel 1/2(rear XS-650's) Gain 30% Hi-pass, 80 Hz
Channel 3/4(front XS-650's) Gain 30%, Hi-pass, 80 Hz
Channel 5/6(XS-10FA, bridged) Gain 50%, low-pass, 80HZ, little Bass boost(maybe 15%)

I think these are conservative settings, but I am no expert.

david_e_m 07-07-2013 9:20 AM

Quote. "David I think I understand. So if I have my filter at 80Hz, in the real world it really is working at 72 Hz. So I shouldn't go any lower than 80Hz on the filter."
Not 8 Hz necessarily but as a percentage of an octave. 8 Hz to 40 Hz is like 16 Hz to 80 Hz. The the lowpass filter roll-off might softly begin its descent around 64 Hz, be - 3dB down at 80 Hz, and be into a strict 12 dB slope around 100 Hz and above. The filter transitions from beginning soft and variable to becoming steep and fixed. The highpass filter would have the identical characteristics going in the opposite direction. Ideally you want the lowpass and highpass filters to intersect at the same -3dB down frequency. Too much or too little overlap creates an irregular transition.

Quote, "Am I correct that the lower I go the more High/treble type sound the filter takes out?"
A lowpass filter cuts frequencies higher than the frequency designation. A highpass filter cuts frequencies lower than the frequency designation. And, yes, as you shift the crossover frequency you remove more or less of the unwanted bandwidth.

This entire discussion only scratches the surface of what you need to know and do in order to get a properly tuned system. Odin, with Earmark, has over twenty years in mobile electronics, nearly that long in live performing as part of a band, and at least ten years doing live sound engineering for literally several hundred different groups in a North Dallas club. He supports his customers with a step by step process that really works and makes the same equipment sound much better.

David

boardman74 07-07-2013 9:51 AM

I wish I had a good shop local with experience with boats and WS stuff. I would be happy to pay to have it perform at its best. Just can't find anything short of the Best Buy "experts"!!

david_e_m 07-07-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman74 (Post 1832088)
I wish I had a good shop local with experience with boats and WS stuff. I would be happy to pay to have it perform at its best. Just can't find anything short of the Best Buy "experts"!!

To support his customers, Odin with Earmark has well over 75 instructional documents, illustrations and diagrams, and the library is always growing. Everything on system building, enclosure building, tuning, noise diagnosis and trouble-shooting for down the road if a problem does arise. He is very well equipped to support those who do their own installations.

David

chpthril 07-07-2013 2:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman74 (Post 1832088)
I wish I had a good shop local with experience with boats and WS stuff. I would be happy to pay to have it perform at its best. Just can't find anything short of the Best Buy "experts"!!

Then who did you buy all the new WS gear from? Can they not offer any support?

Rhetorical questions, not actually looking for you to name your retailer.

Truekaotik 07-10-2013 5:32 PM

I agree with Mike ^^^
I hope you bought it online and your local dealer isn't a noob pushing great product..

boardman74 07-10-2013 6:24 PM

Bought it threw a dealer that is honest and admits boats aren't his thing and really doesn't want them to be.

They are happy to offer product support but as to tuning, their advice was..tune it till it sounds how you like.


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