WakeWorld

WakeWorld (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/index.php)
-   Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3183)
-   -   How loud should rev 8's be @ 75-80'? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798531)

04avyboarder 06-10-2013 6:51 AM

How loud should rev 8's be @ 75-80'?
 
I'm sure they are not tuned to there potential... I'm running a Sony cdx gt65ui head unit, ws420, and powering the revs w/ ppi 900.4. Bridged, Cross over @ 120 and gains @ 30%. I could hear them when turned up to 80% of volume max... Expectation was they would be much louder. Any thoughts?
Like This
Quote
MultiQuote

LYNRDSKYNRD 06-10-2013 7:10 AM

I have rev10's running off a bridged syn4 so the power to the speakers should be comparable. I had a rider last week ask me to turn them down when riding at 70 feet I was at about 75% and he said they were too loud. I dropped it down to about 50% and he said it was perfect. I do not know what my gains are set at, it was tuned by the shop but it is really loud and clear. Mounted on a 2013 Axis A22 and it is relatively quiet running at wake speeds, your engine/exhaust noise may be louder than mine if that is the case I have heard the beat stereo upgrade is a Fresh Air Exhaust if you have loud exhaust.

hatepain 06-10-2013 7:22 AM

Seems like your gains might be a little low. I have that same amp on my golf cart and the gains are closer to 70%

chpthril 06-10-2013 8:48 AM

With an EQ thats a line driver, such as the WS-420, I would expect the gains to be less the 50%, not more, and 30% sounds about right, BUT, the gain structure of every amp is different, so each setup needs to be set accordingly. With everything set right, I see no reason why the volume on the WS-420 can not be turned wide open. Just keep in mind that the head-unit should max about 75%. What is your source for music? If an MP3, where are you connecting it?

wetsounds1 06-10-2013 8:56 AM

120 is a bit high. I like to start around 80HZ and maybe move up to 100. Make sure the button is on X1 and not X10. If it is on x10, you would be multiplying 120x10. so crossing them over at 1200 Hz and not 120 hz.

Then follow the tuning guide I wrote for the WS-420 on setting the system up. Start at the source and then 420 and then to the amps and make sure your gain structure is set properly

Tim
Wet Sounds

davez71 06-10-2013 1:23 PM

I have 4 Rev 8s powered by a Syn2 and sometimes I wonder if they are getting the right amount of power based on my settings becuase that seems to be a popular setup.

Tim, do you have any recommened setting based on all of the systems you have constructed. I love my Wetsounds but my Clarion Headunit on reaches a MAX volume of 33 and i feel like the speakers coukld be loused. Anyone have any advoce on how to get more sound out of the REV 8s?

Dmac420sj 06-10-2013 1:34 PM

Since Tim is on here, hey Tim I have 2 rev 10s with a syn 4 bridged I got my cross over at 120 and gains at 5o% head unit 75% and my 42o 100%at tower and main is this optimal or is to high no cracking or any thing just don't want to accidentally damage anything? Thanks not trying to jack the thread just wanted some verification , sorry

wetsounds1 06-10-2013 2:12 PM

David,
All head units will clip the output past a certain level. 80% on some, 90% on others. I think the clarion should be OK at 30 but you might want to try 28. Even 25. The only way to truly tell is to hook up a scope on the outputs. Something that a good audio shop can do.

Make sure everything is flat. eq on iphone flat, head unit flat. then unplug all other sources and turn amp gain down. turn radio to that max safe level and slowly bring gain up until you hear them distort. then back it down a tad. try different music.

most head units have weak outputs. so adding a line driver like the WS-420 will boost your voltage from the source to the amps. Allowing you to get more clean signal to the amps and not have the gains up so high. Gaining clarity and headroom.

The SYN-2 on the REV 8's flat out rocks. So if there is some volume lacking. I would look at adding a line driver like the 420 and having the system re tuned.

Chris,

The REV 10's can be crossed over lower. Try them about 80. Head unit might be able to come up a bit. Lower the gain. Cross them over at about 80. Try the head unit a little higher. Maybe 80%. With eq max. Then re set the gains.

Distortion is the number one speaker killer. If your speakers are loud and clean, then your good. If they distort and you hear clipping. Then you need to re tune the system.

Tuning is the key to getting the most out of a system.

Tim
Wet Sounds

Dmac420sj 06-10-2013 4:56 PM

Thanks tim

superair502 06-10-2013 5:10 PM

Is 80 hz a good starting point for the rev 410s as well? Not trying to hijack the thread. I have a sd4 with the gain at about 70% and the deck volume at 80%

superair502 06-10-2013 5:16 PM

I have zero clipping but don't really under stand the hz like I do gains. My hz is currently at 90 on the sd4

BradM07SS 06-10-2013 5:54 PM

If you set it at 90 hz it only plays tones 90 hz and up.

david_e_m 06-10-2013 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superair502 (Post 1827011)
I have zero clipping but don't really under stand the hz like I do gains. My hz is currently at 90 on the sd4

Mason,
Hz (hertz) is the frequency count per second. In other words, in electrical terms, 90 Hz is 90 complete positive/negative cycles per second. Or, in acoustical/mechanical terms, 90 Hz is 90 complete positive/negative speaker pulses per second.
When you have a 90 Hz crossover point, that generally means that the amplifier is gradually rolling off to filter out a designated range and is at the half power point at that 90 Hz frequency. So in the case of a tower speaker, the filter is set to HIGHPASS so that frequencies above 90 Hz are increasingly passed through and frequencies below 90 Hz are increasingly filtered out.
To put that in perspective, 50 to 80 Hz is the meaty part of bass. There certainly is alot of deeper bass but 50 to 80 Hz is where the most bass amplitude is. Immediately above that frequency range could be referred to as midbass. Midbass includes more of the bass attack and impact as well as where more of the bass pitch is discernable. So midbass gives the lower and rather indiscriminant bass some color. If a speaker can reach down to 80 to 90 Hz with nearly full amplitude then it will sound plausibly fullrange (but not deep).
This sounds easy enough but in a compact speaker pod high on the tower with zero reinforcing boundaries around the speaker, and at very loud levels, its REALLY difficult.
An amplifier is going to give a limited amount of power under control which translates to a limited amount of speaker excursion. A speaker is independently going to give you a limited amount of excursion under control.
You can narrow the bandwidth of both the speaker and amplifier to get more power and output resulting in better distance projection. But the speaker will not sound nearly as fullrange. Or, you can lower the tower speaker crossover frequency, broaden its range for better near field sound but sacrifice a bit of the maximum output and projection distance.
The recommended frequency range, given by Wetsounds for example, is based on experience with their own speakers and setting a happy middle ground for most people. People who are more biased towards near field listening at a moderate volume or instead focused mostly on wake range may choose to modify those recommendations to best suit their priorities.

David
Earmark Marine

Dmac420sj 06-10-2013 6:32 PM

So is a higher frequency setting for further less detailed range(120hz) or so or is the lower gonna be the further projection

Wakesounds 06-10-2013 6:44 PM

^^^ What he said. Its not that frequencies are not played below (high pass) your set point, its that they roll off and are gradually phased out depending on the slope.

superair502 06-10-2013 7:30 PM

Never could find a recommended setting

Wakesounds 06-10-2013 8:24 PM

100hz for the Rev 8 and 80hz for the Rev 10. Those are just recommended, which will change based on different factors but its a good starting point.

david_e_m 06-11-2013 5:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmac420sj (Post 1827026)
So is a higher frequency setting for further less detailed range(120hz) or so or is the lower gonna be the further projection

A higher frequency crossover setting will yield a slightly higher output without clipping. And that will provide a small improvement in projection range. 'Detailed' is a term generally applied to higher frequencies which are not affected in this 80 to 120 Hz discussion. Contrastly a higher frequency crossover setting filters out more bass and that may negatively affect how warm and full the speaker sounds, particularly when you are up close and in a more quiet place.
Keep this in mind. It will take four times the amplifier power and four times the speaker excursion to produce 60 Hz equal in amplitude to 120 Hz. Eventually as the frequency lowers you are battling an elevated speaker impedance that reduces amplifier power plus a rigid pod air mass that will restrict excursion plus the overall power limitation of the amplifier. Eventually you hit the wall. Past a low frequency point those factors will combine to gradually eliminate any bass production. It's senseless, wasteful and counter-productive to try and push the speaker lower than it can go. The targeted crossover point is when the slope of the active filter is in sync with the speakers natural roll-off. That target will shift slightly upward in frequency as you run the speaker harder.

David
Earmark Marine

LYNRDSKYNRD 06-11-2013 6:08 AM

Okay after reading countless posts of David's that I did not understand, I actually understand most of this one! David, many thanks to you and all the other guys on here for passing along the knowledge.

Dmac420sj 06-11-2013 8:54 AM

Yep learned what I was trying to learn! Thanks full understanding!

superair502 06-11-2013 9:20 AM

Thanks that makes sense now

davez71 06-11-2013 1:13 PM

I wish there was an Earmark marine in Louisiana. Its hard to find someone that knows and understand Boat audio.

Wakesounds 06-11-2013 4:20 PM

Dave, I completely agree! I wish there were better audio people in the Seattle area as well. I'm sure there are a few good ones but I never really feel like they are better at it than I am. I guess that's why I've always done my own stuff. I've even gotten pretty decent at it all! Lol But honestly, I would pay a place like earmark if they were around my area.

davez71 06-12-2013 8:40 AM

I pulled the Wetsounds SYN2 off the internet to today to see if there was any insight on tuning the amp as Iím planning on trying to tune it this weekend and I have some questions.

http://www.wetsounds.com/downloads/W...ser-Manual.pdf

1. Since these are for the tower speakers I should turn the Bass Boost to ZERO correct? Since that is intended for a Sub or does it work with tower speakers as well?

2. What is the difference between setting the AMP to HIGH or FULL? Not sure where mine is now but wondering which is the best since Iím about to retune?

3. Looking at the Frequency setting on the amp, I take it that I should between 55 - 110 but where should I start? Is there an Ideal Setting on the amp or just in the Middle? How will I know which frequency is the best?

4. Tim mentioned in his previous post to me that the Eq should be flat on the radio, so does this mean the treble, bass and etc should be at 0 because on my Clarion head Unit CMD8 I donít have any other setting or Eq style settings besides those and the faders (at least not that Iím aware of).

5. So once I get all of this set up itís on to the GAIN. Tim said to turn up the Volume level to about 70% of the max level and turn the gain until you hear the music distort. Why wouldnít I want the volume at max level since thatís where it is the loudest to project to the rider? Once is do it at 70% should I turn it to 100% and adjust the GAIN?

6. Any other tuning tips are welcomed......

Sorry for the wordy post just trying to get the best sound out of my Wetsounds speakers. In Louisiana were at a disadvantage of having quality marine audio work therefore I have to learn myself. Hopefully retuning my amp will help raise the volume of the speakers.

bryce2320 06-12-2013 8:51 AM

1- bass boost at 0 is correct, even tho I don't think it's used
2- set the amp to high, it'll roll off everything under what you set that frequency too.
3- set it around 80 hz for more mid bass, 110 hz if you want it to project a little further.
4- yes, just make sure everything is flat, or zeroed out.
5- if you run the headunit at 100%, the signal going to the amps thru the RCA will b clipped, causing distortion. Set the headunit between 75-85%, and don't ever turn it up more than that. So if you set your head unit 28 out of 33, 28 should b max volume, and you need to tune at 28.

davez71 06-12-2013 9:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryce2320 (Post 1827503)
1- bass boost at 0 is correct, even tho I don't think it's used
2- set the amp to high, it'll roll off everything under what you set that frequency too.
3- set it around 80 hz for more mid bass, 110 hz if you want it to project a little further.
4- yes, just make sure everything is flat, or zeroed out.
5- if you run the headunit at 100%, the signal going to the amps thru the RCA will b clipped, causing distortion. Set the headunit between 75-85%, and don't ever turn it up more than that. So if you set your head unit 28 out of 33, 28 should b max volume, and you need to tune at 28.

Thanks for the help. With the Volume at 28 on my system now you cant hear the speakers at the rider. its not until about 33 (max volume) that you can hear it at the rider and its still not loud. the dealer swapped out the SYN2 that came with the boat and put this one on there and i dont think they tuned it. hopefully it can get fixed this weekend.

Greeko 06-12-2013 9:09 AM

I would have kept the Syn 2.... It is fine for your application...

Greeko 06-12-2013 9:15 AM

Turn up your gain on your amps. Listen to Bryce.

On a side note if you really want the MAX out of your amps, A guy on this forum. Midnight V10 refered me over to a SMC DD-1

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...e-Designs.html

It basically measures the output of your amplifier and detects when there is distortion. You hook it up and turn it up until the red light goes on (distortion) then back it off a touch..

You get the MAX out of your amp while not sending any distorted sound waves. Works like a CHARM!

davez71 06-12-2013 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeko (Post 1827510)
I would have kept the Syn 2.... It is fine for your application...

They gave me a new SYN 2 I just don't think they tuned it properly. Hopefully I can get it tuned this weekend. Thanks for all the help guys.

bryce2320 06-12-2013 10:50 AM

SMD-DD1 is legit. I bought one a month or so ago. Really easy to use. You need to probably look at how the switches are set on your syn 2. Something isn't right it sounds like.

stevev210 06-12-2013 1:51 PM

David, I have the same setup on my 06 star and have zero problems hearing the speakers while riding. Hit me up later tonight and I'll ler u know what my syn2 is set at for the 4 rev8s.

93lxt 06-12-2013 8:41 PM

Hey guys, if a rookie like me buys the SMD-DD1 will I be able to tune my system properly with it ?

I have the factory system from tige on my z3 (6 in boats, 2 rev10's on the tower and 2 wetsounds amps. Not sure which amps)

Thanks !

bryce2320 06-12-2013 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93lxt (Post 1827608)
Hey guys, if a rookie like me buys the SMD-DD1 will I be able to tune my system properly with it ?

I have the factory system from tige on my z3 (6 in boats, 2 rev10's on the tower and 2 wetsounds amps. Not sure which amps)

Thanks !

Of course. You put the CD in, play the track that it tells you depending on which amp you are tuning, hook the prongs to the amp, and turn the gain up til the distortion light comes on. Then turn it down just a little til it goes off and your set to max clean output.

93lxt 06-12-2013 9:22 PM

Thanks Bryce !

I just ordered one !

Wakesounds 06-12-2013 9:36 PM

Out of this whole thread, nobody has actually commented on volume levels of a single pair of Rev 8's at 80ft?

bryce2320 06-13-2013 9:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakesounds (Post 1827620)
Out of this whole thread, nobody has actually commented on volume levels of a single pair of Rev 8's at 80ft?

Idk about the 8s, but my 4 rev 10s are ridiculous at 70' :D

davez71 06-14-2013 2:09 PM

Raised the gain and wow what a difference. Dealer said the raised the gain but it was at 0. Fixed everything. Thanks for the help

stevev210 06-14-2013 8:12 PM

Good to hear!

superair502 06-15-2013 3:13 PM

Lol

04avyboarder 06-15-2013 3:43 PM

Wouldnt any digital scope work to detect distortion? Say the scope on a snapon modis?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:58 PM.