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-   -   1/2 Ton or 3/4 Ton? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798220)

Houstonshark 05-21-2013 10:20 AM

1/2 Ton or 3/4 Ton?
 
Ok. I'm sure this will be a bit of a heated discussion with lots of polarizing opinions but I would like to hear them.

I have a 2011 2WD F150 Platinum Ecoboost with ~49k miles. I bought it new about 18 months ago. I drive quite a bit and since October of last year, I am driving even more.

My truck has been pretty good to me. I had some minor surging issues with the EB but a flash of the computer by the dealer seemed to fix it.

I do lots of highway driving but being in Houston, I spend a lot of time in traffic and also spend a fair amount of time just parked, doing work in the truck while waiting on a client or contractor.

My truck has a lifetime MPG of 17.4. The only mod is an Airaide intake. I can get 22mpg easily on the freeway if I keep it under 70.

The EB tows my boat (~5000lbs with all mods and some lead) with ease though the highway towing MPG is around 11.5 @ 65.

Lately, I'm getting a lot of creaking and rattling from the rear suspension and get a popping sound in the front when turning into a sloped driveway. I took it to the dealer just before the end of the bumper to bumper warranty to have them look at it but they couldn't find anything wrong. I'm sure if I left it now they would figure it out as it has gotten worse. I'm starting to wonder if towing the boat has caused these issues.

So, I think I've pretty much decided I'm getting a new truck. I just can't decide if it makes more sense to get a 1/2 ton again or a 3/4 ton. I'll definitely get a 4WD truck this time and would love to have a 4-6" lift and larger wheels and tires. I just don't think it makes sense with as much as I drive (from a cost and durability perspective).

I haven't completely decided on which brand though for the most part I like the F150 and F250 the best.

Here is my short list:

1/2 Ton
- 2013 FX4 F150 ~$40k (average discount seems to be about $10k off). I'd probably go back with an EB though I do miss having a V8 and the 5.0 is a really nice motor. The downside here is that the 2014's will be here in the fall and 2015's should be here in about a year with a redesign I believe.

- 2013 Dodge Ram 1500 4WD with Hemi, 8spd Auto and Air Suspension ~$40k? Not positive on the pricing but I have a good friend who is the GM of a Dodge store so I'd get a pretty good deal. I'm kinda lukewarm on the Dodge from a looks perspective unless it is lifted.

- 2014 GMC Sierra 1500 4WD. I have only seen the original pics of this truck when it was released and I kinda liked it. I have no clue on the pricing but I'm sure it would be $45k+ since they are new, if not $50k. I'm not too warm on Government Motors these days.

3/4 Ton
- 2013 FX4 F250 Diesel ~$50k - $55k? I like the F250's a lot but I've only ever had 1/2 ton trucks. I know it's not that much bigger but it is a little bigger. I'd feel completely comfortable that this truck would last a long time and have zero issues towing the boat. What could I expect as far as MPG?

- 2013 Dodge Ram 2500 4WD Diesel ~45k - $50k. A good friend just bought this truck in a Mega Cab (which I don't care for) and he loves it. He said he gets 21mpg on the highway with a tune and the truck flies.


Sorry for the novel. I'd love some input here though.

I don't think I would buy a Tundra but you guys are welcome to weigh in as well as it may be helpful info for others.

No VW Van suggestions please.

timmyb 05-21-2013 10:27 AM

All good choices! Do this, go drive an F250 diesel and then immediately drive the F150 and tell me which one you like better. Take the F250 to the grocery store parking lot, over some bumpy roads, etc and then do the same with the F150 and then decide which you like the best. :) The F150 Ecoboost is all you really need.

saberworks 05-21-2013 10:53 AM

Seems odd to get a new truck because of some creaky suspension parts. Just go get it fixed! In any case, I have a 2012 ram 1500 4x4 hemi crew and the mileage sucks. My computer reads an average of 14mpg. I do about half in-town, half highway miles. The best I get is 17mpg on long trips with 100% highway. And that's only if I drive like a granny. The air suspension on the 2013s seems cool. The one I have has rear coil springs and it sags a bit with the boat attached. A lot of people add air bags to the back to fix that.

Regarding 21mpg for that ram mega cab... I seriously doubt it. Maybe the meter went to up 21mpg a few times, but I've never met anyone who gets anywhere near that in real-world driving.

bryce2320 05-21-2013 11:02 AM

I'd go with the 2013 cummins!!!

Or look into a 89' minivan :D

05-21-2013 11:04 AM

I would think of what your life style might be in the future. You may get into camping and towing a toy hauler trailer or maybe a bigger boat. If you have any idea of someday towing something bigger, I would go with 2500/3500 diesel. Its funny how most people will say that the 1/2 ton trucks tow just fine when they have never towed with a 2500/3500. If you want to lift it, The ford and dodge trucks have solid front axles which are a whole lot stronger and easier to lift than a IFS 1/2 ton or chevy truck. Also, the bigger tires won't affect the truck as much as it would a 1/2 ton mostly due to the factory gears that are taller. I personally like dodge and the cummins. Ford style just seams super outdated. They have used the same basic design since 1998. Also, Im pretty sure the dodge will be a DEF truck in 2013 also which means close MPG's as the new Ford 6.7.

Towing wise, your boat won't even feel like its back there. I was driving a Ford F350 dually and my boat trailer got a flat, the trailer was bouncing around and I couldn't even feel it through the truck. Sure the 1/2 tons tow fine but in the situations that are dangerous, ie: car cuts in front of you, high winds, breaks go out on trailer or anything, you will wish you had the bigger truck. I would like to think of it as insurance. You'll pay for it and may never use it but If you do, you'll be glad you have it. Especially, when you have your whole family in the truck during a trip.

My experience, I tow my boat with a dodge 1500, a Ford f350 dually, a f350 SWR, and a new dodge 2500. The diesels are no comparison to the 1500.

timmyb 05-21-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryce2320 (Post 1823530)
Or look into a 89' minivan :D

Bryce loves his minivan!:eek::D I think he said it has shag carpet and a waterbed in it too...

bryce2320 05-21-2013 11:33 AM

And lots of candy :o :p

Houstonshark 05-21-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saberworks (Post 1823527)
Seems odd to get a new truck because of some creaky suspension parts. Just go get it fixed! In any case, I have a 2012 ram 1500 4x4 hemi crew and the mileage sucks. My computer reads an average of 14mpg. I do about half in-town, half highway miles. The best I get is 17mpg on long trips with 100% highway. And that's only if I drive like a granny. The air suspension on the 2013s seems cool. The one I have has rear coil springs and it sags a bit with the boat attached. A lot of people add air bags to the back to fix that.

Regarding 21mpg for that ram mega cab... I seriously doubt it. Maybe the meter went to up 21mpg a few times, but I've never met anyone who gets anywhere near that in real-world driving.

The creaky suspension is not the reason I am considering getting rid of it but it doesn't help my thoughts about the truck. I've had very few vehicles for over 2 years and this one has seemed to run it's course with me.

I don't like being out of warranty and I'll be approaching 60k miles before I know it which is where the powertrain warranty expires. I think my truck might be a little more attractive at 49k miles with some warranty left to a potential buyer or for trade than at 60k and no warranty.

05-21-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saberworks (Post 1823527)
Regarding 21mpg for that ram mega cab... I seriously doubt it. Maybe the meter went to up 21mpg a few times, but I've never met anyone who gets anywhere near that in real-world driving.

If its the new DEF truck I wouldn't doubt it. I here the Ford 6.7 DEF is getting around 20. It may even be a 2wd also.

iShredSAN 05-21-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kx250frider617 (Post 1823531)
I would think of what your life style might be in the future. You may get into camping and towing a toy hauler trailer or maybe a bigger boat. If you have any idea of someday towing something bigger, I would go with 2500/3500 diesel. Its funny how most people will say that the 1/2 ton trucks tow just fine when they have never towed with a 2500/3500. If you want to lift it, The ford and dodge trucks have solid front axles which are a whole lot stronger and easier to lift than a IFS 1/2 ton or chevy truck. Also, the bigger tires won't affect the truck as much as it would a 1/2 ton mostly due to the factory gears that are taller. I personally like dodge and the cummins. Ford style just seams super outdated. They have used the same basic design since 1998. Also, Im pretty sure the dodge will be a DEF truck in 2013 also which means close MPG's as the new Ford 6.7.

Towing wise, your boat won't even feel like its back there. I was driving a Ford F350 dually and my boat trailer got a flat, the trailer was bouncing around and I couldn't even feel it through the truck. Sure the 1/2 tons tow fine but in the situations that are dangerous, ie: car cuts in front of you, high winds, breaks go out on trailer or anything, you will wish you had the bigger truck. I would like to think of it as insurance. You'll pay for it and may never use it but If you do, you'll be glad you have it. Especially, when you have your whole family in the truck during a trip.

My experience, I tow my boat with a dodge 1500, a Ford f350 dually, a f350 SWR, and a new dodge 2500. The diesels are no comparison to the 1500.

+1... Have towed with 1500 gas, 2500 gas, and 2500 diesel and it's not even a comparison. I'm not trying to start a gas vs. diesel war but from firsthand experience the diesel takes the prize overall (except the price paid at the pump).

runin90lx 05-21-2013 12:08 PM

TJ. i can tell you my experience..we have a 23ft MB on a dual axle boatmate trailer (apps 4400 lbs boat + 1500 lb trailer=5900 lbs with out gear and gas)


we used my wifes truck at first to tow. its a f50 harley davidson with a 4" lift and the 6.2L engine with a programmer. the truck would pull the boat decently, it got about 7.5 to 8 mpg at 60-65mph. maybe it was the lift and needing different gears but the truck reallllly struggled up steep hills, and we also started to hear some popping noises occasionally like the transmission was shifting super hard.

so i had a buddy with a f250 diesel for sale. its a 2012, 6" lift on 38" tires and a programmer. last trip out you could not notice whatsoever that there was anything behind you if it werent for watching in the mirror. the diesel with programmer set on performance mode i got 11.2 mpg @70 mph pulling it to bethy creek. when i am just doing around town stop and go driving i get anywhere from 13.3 to 14.8(keeping your foot out of the boost is the mpg killer haha)


ive driven long wheelbase diesal pickups my whole career as i work in the oilfield. heres my thoughts-you really cant beat the f250 in terms of comfort and power

-- dodge 2500 with cummins are a beast of a truck. tons of power and pretty good mpg(before they started DEF additive). my 2011 work truck is 4x4, and it gets about 18 mpg on highway. the only down side to dodge is IMO the interior is not comfy at all. the seats kill my back after a couple hours drives, so much ive bought a pillow to sit on for long drives LOL

--chevy. i havent ridden in a newer 3/4 ton chevy, but the ones i rode in from several years ago rode like a log truck down the highway and it was completly bone stock z71. plus im not a fan of "obama motor company" and their bailout taking executives anyway.

DatTexasBoy 05-21-2013 2:41 PM

Towed the boat for the first time with the 1/2 ton 4x4 Eco Boost and was very please with the way it handle he boat. It only averaged 10mpg(only have 800 miles on it), but we went to 5.5 hrs up into the mountains of Arkansas. I had a Ram 1500 4x4 Hemi before this and it didn't pull the boat near as easy and only got 7-8 mpg. Can't see the advantage of the diesel once you factor in cost, fuel and maintenance. IMO

cadunkle 05-21-2013 2:46 PM

If your concern is wearing out front suspension parts, you should only be looking at trucks with a solid front axle with king pins and full floating rear. Basically a 3/4 ton or 1 ton pickup that has a Dana 60, or a 2WD truck with a straight I beam front axle with king pins. Your popping and creaking noises are likely worn out ball joints or tie rods or worn IFS pivot bushings. Wheel bearings are also likely worn as they use non-serviceable unit bearings on many new half tons. New half ton trucks are luxury vehicles, not made to work like they used to be. If buying new 3/4 ton or 1 ton is the only way you'll get anything resembling a stout front axle and suspension, and even then I believe the new trucks use ball joint Dana 60s so they'll still wear out components but not nearly as quickly as an IFS truck.

Also check the diameter of the tie rods and drag link, they should be around 1" minimum, and tie rod ends should be substantial. All ball joints and tie rod ends should have grease zerks and be get a couple pumps of grease at every oil change. Sealed for life means the life of the part is short. Grease breaks down from high pressure and also from water/sand/grime/dirt contamination and needs to be replaced, and contaminants removed from the working surfaces of the joint. Basically it all comes down to a poor suspension designed for a soft ride rather than a working truck, and using undersized and non-serviceable components. Makes great profits for dealer service departments, but a lot more cost for the owner.

So either look for those features in a front suspension or accept that you'll need to do ball joints, tie rods, bushings, bearings, etc. every 50k miles, as that's what you said you got out of yours before these issues. Probably a few hundred bucks worth of parts and a weekend to do it.

pkh80 05-21-2013 3:23 PM

If you are having reliability issues with 49k why would you get another F150?

I have a 2012 Ram 2500 w/ Cummins and will never go back. The ride is great and its much easier to drive around town then I thought it was going to be. It has nice mirrors, backup camera, sensors, etc... so its really stupid dumb easy to park and all that.

We tow to the ramp 4 days a week during the summer and do 3-4 trips a year with the boat, averaging 6 hours of driving each way. The 3/4 ton trucks will give you much more confidence to take your boat on more trips and ultimately get more enjoyment out of it.

The only thing I think you give up with the big trucks is gas mileage. Towing you will do better though. Fuelly.com is a good site if you want to get real world reports.

They also cost more upfront, but I think they hold their value much better. The half tons are getting expensive too, some trims of the F-150 cost over 60k! My 2500 Ram had all the bells and whistles (Laramie) and negotiated to less than 50k.

pkh80 05-21-2013 3:26 PM

Oh yeah and on mileage - you mention your friend runs with a tune. I do agree with deleting a few bits and running a tune you can get much better mileage with diesel. I like keeping mine stock though so that's why I bring up the mileage issue.

chattwake 05-21-2013 3:42 PM

I looked last month at trading in my '07 Yukon Denali on a '13 F250 King Ranch FX4 or a '13 GMC Denali 2500. Both vehicles, fully loaded, with all possible discounts and promos, were in the neighborhood of $54k (before ttl).

At the end of the day, I said hell with it. I don't tow my boat enough to warrant dropping $35k to get into a new rig. Plus, while the mpg numbers look slightly better with a diesel, the variance between gas and diesel cost at the pump wipes out the mpg benefits unless you are towing around a 10klb trailer all day long.

you_da_man 05-21-2013 4:54 PM

Do you really need a 4WD or can a 2WD serve your needs. I have a 2WD Dodge 2500 mega cab diesel and YES you can get a touch over 20mpg at times hand calculated on the highway. Only mods I have on mine is a Smarty Jr programmer, AFE Stage II intake, and Aero Turbine exhaust. Towing my Axis A22 I see 13.5-14mpg. My truck is not lifted (it's dropped 2" in the rear to level it) but it does have 22" wheels with 35" tires. I'll agree that the Fords are a better ride and plushness on the inside but I'll take the Cummins reputation first.

cwb4me 05-21-2013 7:27 PM

I've had a f150 and currently own a F250 King Ranch. The F150 is a far more comfortable ride especially once you get over 50k miles on both trucks.The Chevy's and the Dodge will be the same.The 3/4 ton trucks ride better with 1000 pounds of weight in the bed but still not as good as the 1/2 ton.As stated above the diesel in any brand will out perform the gas when towing but it doesn't make up for the difference in cost.Especially if you only keep it for the 100k warranty.The Diesel only pays off in the long run 250k or more and towing heavy loads[10k or more]. I would stick with the 1/2 ton in which ever brand you choose.Good Luck TJ.

bstroop 05-21-2013 7:50 PM

I've had an 06 and an 07 Ram 2500 diesel, an 06 Ram 2500 Hemi, and currently drive an 04 Titan.

Ram diesels - I had multiple programmers on both and never had anything bigger than 285/70/17 tires. Never got more than 20.5 empty and 15 towing. Power was ridiculous, the interior and front suspension were garbage. Most diesel owners are liars about mileage......especially the ones claiming over 20 with a lift and tires.

Ram Hemi - power was pretty good for a gasser. Same garbage interior and suspension listed above. Never got more than 14 empty and 8 towing.

Nissan Titan - like the look but wasn't sure about the performance. Better hp than the Hemi and tows well. Routinely get 18.7 empty and 11 towing.

I loved the diesels but they were $$$ when compared to the equivalent gassers. Unless you're towing heavy all the time there's really no need to overkill with a 3/4 diesel.......unless $$ isn't a concern. I end up saving a lot by driving the Titan. Purchase price, gas -vs fuel cost, and it get as good mileage in town as the diesel. I do lose out on power when pulling hills and lower mileage overall when towing. I'm still pretty happy with it.

MCObray 05-21-2013 8:02 PM

Just going to throw it out there, but check out the '14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel V6... potentially the best of both worlds, but not sure if you want to be a Guinea pig or not.

murphy_smith 05-21-2013 8:13 PM

What about a 2014 GMC Sierra with the upgraded 6.0L motor. These motors are really strong and can tow a 23ft wake board boat at 70 mph all day. They like gasoline and could be a deterrent.

Less then 60k miles on a newer Ford...that might make me consider looking elsewhere.

petrey10 05-22-2013 8:38 AM

look im not going to start a debate or anything BUT if you want a truck that will have PLENTY of power to pull that boat and not notice it as much all while getting close to better mileage than your ECO then go ahead and get the diesel.... which brand is up to you... if it were me I would be looking at dodge, GM, and Ford in that order but I have drove all of them and they are all fine for what you are wanting.


You really should look at the new Dodge 1/2 ton diesel... it will pull better than your ECO and put up better mileage for sure... but I bet you will still "notice" that boat back there because you just can't make a 1/2ton pull like a 3/4+ton truck.... those trucks are just setup to pull more weight plain and simple but if you were fine with your ECO then I am betting the new dodge should top that

polarbill 05-22-2013 9:00 AM

If you are planning on getting a new truck every couple years I wouldn't at all be worried about reliability and it's max tow capacity. The main things I would take into account are fuel economy and potential depreciation. Basically the cost of ownership for 2 years in your case. Of coarse it has to be a truck you like the looks of and meet your needs.

What about the Ram 1500 hemi with the 8 speed? Is that out yet? What are the MPG estimates on the Ram 1500 with the diesel? Will it have the 8 speed as well? If that 1500 diesel has 8 speed I would have to expect near 30 mpg's on the highway.

Also, aren't you in Texas? Why would you need a huge 3/4 truck to tow there. You don't actually have real mountain passes do you? Isn't it mostly flat with some rolling hills?

timmyb 05-22-2013 9:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCObray (Post 1823632)
Just going to throw it out there, but check out the '14 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel V6... potentially the best of both worlds, but not sure if you want to be a Guinea pig or not.

That's something I am interesting in seeing. They don't have the highest towing limit but if it fits the bill and you aren't towing a tremendous amount, it could be the way to go in the future!

jeepdude 05-22-2013 9:18 AM

personally i have owned both 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks.
the biggest regret i have is going back to a 1/2.

It does everything I want with ease, but it is just not the same.

So if you have never owned a 3/4 and a 1/2 does everything you need stick with it, because once you move up, you'll never want to move back down.

The only think i like better about my 1/2 is the ride.

pprior 05-22-2013 10:54 AM

"The only think i like better about my 1/2 is the ride"

umm, that's kinda important ;)

(truck is my daily driver, so weekend towing is 2ndary...)

fouroheight68 05-22-2013 11:13 AM

Dodge has BIG discounts off sticker - take that into account when comparing. Example, in 2010 I bought my brand new ram (4x4, quad cab, big horn Hemi) with a sticker of 37,000 for 23,500. 10k off sticker is typical. Ford/Chevy doesn't get close to those discounts. I wanted an f150, but anything for 23,500 was stripped down work truck.

timmyb 05-22-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pprior (Post 1823718)
"The only think i like better about my 1/2 is the ride"

umm, that's kinda important ;)

(truck is my daily driver, so weekend towing is 2ndary...)

This! I got all wrapped up in the towing prowess when I bought my '07.5 Duramax and didn't care about the daily driving aspect and have missed the Avalanche, that I traded it in on, every time I am not towing the boat, which is most of the time! Once you put your foot in it though, that Avalanche just seemed like a wimp! :D

timmyb 05-23-2013 2:23 PM

Looks like you should go with a Chevy:
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_...le-on-his-face
:)

nitrousbird 05-23-2013 5:41 PM

If buying new (which I never do) I would be looking at the 2014 Sierra.

Not all the details are out yet, especially on the motors. No Denalli offered on the website right now but there are spy shots around. The 6.2L isn't listed anywhere on the website, but if you build an SLE and try to add 20" wheels it forces the 6.2L engine - my guess it will be available as well.

pkh80 05-23-2013 9:58 PM

I think the whole ride issue is overblown, I drive around bumpy roads in my Ram 2500 all day and don't notice it at all. I run stock everything.

When its loaded it is noticeably smoother, and for long hauls with the boat makes it a comfy drive. If you are really worried about it you can throw some sandbags in the back and it will ride like a caddy.

cwb4me 05-24-2013 4:48 AM

It's most comfortable to tow with my 42' motorhome.But it's not the most economical.The Motorhome cost more,just like a 3/4 ton diesel vs. a 1/2 ton gas.The fuel[diesel] cost more also.Only keeping a truck 2 to 3 years you couldn't recoup any difference in cost vs. expenditures.

silvermustang35 05-24-2013 5:00 AM

As far as mpg, I usually jump over to here to kinda see what people are getting in real world. Granted many on there don't tow boats but you can look at the notes in the vehicles and see if they were towing, how much city vs highway driving.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/
Good Luck in your choice!

timmyb 05-24-2013 8:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvermustang35 (Post 1824042)
As far as mpg, I usually jump over to here to kinda see what people are getting in real world. Granted many on there don't tow boats but you can look at the notes in the vehicles and see if they were towing, how much city vs highway driving.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/
Good Luck in your choice!

I use that fuelly site and track 2 of my vehicles, only missed a few tanks in the last year or so. It really is a decent gauge for what real world is. You always hear people with these inflated numbers and then you go on that site and see the reality.

silvermustang35 05-24-2013 8:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyb (Post 1824059)
I use that fuelly site and track 2 of my vehicles, only missed a few tanks in the last year or so. It really is a decent gauge for what real world is. You always hear people with these inflated numbers and then you go on that site and see the reality.

Exactly, real world number of usage gives you an average idea and things to look for. This is mine http://www.fuelly.com/driver/silvermustang35
My 02 f-350 is right about where the others are it seems.

bruizza 05-28-2013 5:25 PM

TJ aren't you having a boat house built at you river house to store your boat??? If this is the case why on earth would you buy a diesel to drive around town a lot and suffer from the worse ride of the diesel? Without deleting all that new stuff they put on diesels you aren't getting the crazy good gas mileage. And if you delete it you void your warranty so I see no point in that. I have this debate with my buddy all the time who owns a diesel. My truck is my daily driver that happens to tow a boat when I go to the lake. So most important to me is that it is comfortable/luxurious when I am driving around town etc... However I can also haul stuff when necessary etc... The biggest thing I tow is my boat and it does that just fine. Can I do 75mph up a hill and still get 13+ mpg? No I can not. Can I park it at the grocery store without having to back up 3 times to make sure i am not on the line??? Yes I can. (not saying all you diesel guys have trouble parking just that some do) Point is get a truck that is right for you 90% of the time not 10% of the time. For me that is a 1/2 ton gasser.

hatepain 05-29-2013 7:02 AM

Brett, the six speed on the Ram is only available on the V6 truck and is the same tranny they put in the 300 so I wouldn't touch it for a truck.

Seems to me that going with another F150 is s no brainer unless you really just want to try something different.

ironj32 05-29-2013 7:30 AM

I'm considering moving into a 2013 Duramax, as well. Seem to be some really good prices out there, with the new body styles set to be released in the fall. I took my G23 down to the dealership on Monday and did a test drive with a Silverado Crew Cab 2500HD Duramax.

My impressions:

For reference, I currently have a 2011 1500 Crew Cab with a 6.2L. The 2500 definitely is a bigger more solid truck, you could hardly tell the boat was back there. Towing, the Duramax was right about 11-12 mpg, with a combination of city (30-40 mph) and freeway driving (72 mph). My 6.2L is around the 6-7 mpg.

When you put the peddle down on both trucks, it was hard for me to notice a difference in the time it took to get to speed, towing or not. The 6.2L definitely hit's much higher RPMs and is little more jerkey through its' shifting, but it seemed to get up to 70mph pretty wellas the Duramax. Keep in mind that this is in Minnesota, so it wasn't like I am going up large hills or anything.

On the highway, not towing, the Duramax seemed to be around 17-18 mpg, which is pretty in tune with my 6.2L. City driving they are both around 13-14 mpg.

Another factor to consider is that the Duramax was brand new with only a few miles on it. Supposedly they will "learn" your driving style, and you might experience improved mpgs after a few thousand miles. I've got 34k miles on my 6.2L and I don't think it's learned anything in the last two years.

I'm still undecided in what I'm going to do. This mass of the 2500 is definitely nice, the extra length in the box is a plus, as well. If I can really get a screaming deal on one I might pull the trigger. The 6.2L is such a fun engine, and I can be content with it.

timmyb 05-29-2013 9:01 AM

I believe TJ also has an Escalade with the 6.2L in it...

pkh80 05-29-2013 11:46 AM

There is no way I would tow a G23 with anything smaller than a 3/4 ton diesel.

you_da_man 05-29-2013 12:06 PM

I know I'm going to catch hell for saying this but you guys who complain about 3/4 ton trucks as daily drivers and parking issues are such princesses.

cjh1669 05-29-2013 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by you_da_man (Post 1824559)
I know I'm going to catch hell for saying this but you guys who complain about 3/4 ton trucks as daily drivers and parking issues are such princesses.

Agreed, they aren't that tough to park and right now diesel is less expensive in my town than low grade unleaded.

timmyb 05-29-2013 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by you_da_man (Post 1824559)
I know I'm going to catch hell for saying this but you guys who complain about 3/4 ton trucks as daily drivers and parking issues are such princesses.

:D

MattieK27 05-29-2013 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by you_da_man (Post 1824559)
I know I'm going to catch hell for saying this but you guys who complain about 3/4 ton trucks as daily drivers and parking issues are such princesses.

And on the other side of the coin, I would say most of the people thinking they need a 3/4 ton pickup to tow a wakeboat are princesses too... :p

pkh80 05-29-2013 5:00 PM

I was worried about trying a 3/4 ton diesel because of the naysayers on forums like this saying the ride would be harsh and such but I find the ride and drivability BETTER than the tiny Tacoma I came out of. I also drove a number of half tons and didn't find they offered better drivability.

Heck the turning radius on my Ram 2500 crew cab is better than a F-150.

cwb4me 05-29-2013 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkh80 (Post 1824613)
I was worried about trying a 3/4 ton diesel because of the naysayers on forums like this saying the ride would be harsh and such but I find the ride and drivability BETTER than the tiny Tacoma I came out of. I also drove a number of half tons and didn't find they offered better drivability.

Heck the turning radius on my Ram 2500 crew cab is better than a F-150.

I guess by better you mean a bigger turning circle. :eek:

rickB52 05-29-2013 9:32 PM

I know you stated wouldn't buy Tundra.....

tows like 3/4 however mileage isn't the best. I have a 4x4 with TRD off-road, 3/2 level, 305/55/20 and CAI - no squat with boat attached and can cruise at any speed without noticing boat is back there....

The 5.7 is a beast and the 6speed tranny helps on open highway

pkh80 05-29-2013 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1824629)
I guess by better you mean a bigger turning circle. :eek:

No, tighter turning circle on the 2500. It won't fall apart after 50k miles either.

cwb4me 05-30-2013 4:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkh80 (Post 1824655)
No, tighter turning circle on the 2500. It won't fall apart after 50k miles either.

I'm a Tool Dealer. I go to all the dealerships in my town. All of them have a shop in the back.Dodge sells the least trucks,but has two shops,one just for all their trucks.Funny how that works.:D They also have a dedicated Transmission repair Technician.Don't get me wrong,both Ford and Chevrolet have shops too but don't have a dedicated shop for trucks and a dedicated Transmission Technician.:rolleyes:

michridr69 05-30-2013 11:50 AM

diesel or go home. Sry im a gasser hater.

you_da_man 05-30-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1824663)
I'm a Tool Dealer. I go to all the dealerships in my town. All of them have a shop in the back.Dodge sells the least trucks,but has two shops,one just for all their trucks.Funny how that works.:D They also have a dedicated Transmission repair Technician.Don't get me wrong,both Ford and Chevrolet have shops too but don't have a dedicated shop for trucks and a dedicated Transmission Technician.:rolleyes:

You could look at that in two ways. You can imply that Dodge/Ram suck as you are. Then again you could look at it as that dealership setting up shop to better service vehicles to that shop's liking...such as a separate shop for trucks so the techs only work on trucks and are familiar with common issues for more quality/consistency in diagnostics and repair. What's wrong with having a dedicated transmission tech vs. a bunch of techs with half-ass knowledge of transmissions?

pkh80 05-30-2013 2:13 PM

The 50k fall apart comment was in reference to the OP talking about his F-150.

Tommy1005 05-30-2013 8:20 PM

I'd say stick with the f150. I'd love to get a diesel, but when you have to park in a parking garage on a regular basis the added height for a 4x4 diesel is a no go. My 4x4 ecoboost f150 barely fits as it is. Most garages I'm in are 6'8" height.

cwb4me 05-31-2013 4:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by you_da_man (Post 1824732)
You could look at that in two ways. You can imply that Dodge/Ram suck as you are. Then again you could look at it as that dealership setting up shop to better service vehicles to that shop's liking...such as a separate shop for trucks so the techs only work on trucks and are familiar with common issues for more quality/consistency in diagnostics and repair. What's wrong with having a dedicated transmission tech vs. a bunch of techs with half-ass knowledge of transmissions?

The majority of vehicles going through the shop are warranty work. The majority of warranty work is transmission repairs in both cars and trucks as well as SUV's. All of the line technicians are factory trained in all phases of repair. They also have several lube tech's that also do brake work.My point is all vehicles need repair,warranty as well as customer pay.Ford sells the most pickup trucks yet doesn't have as many Truck techs as Dodge. Chevrolet sells more than Dodge also but still doesn't have as many techs.As I stated before they all have repair shops and they all do warranty work. Some more than others.

Houstonshark 05-31-2013 7:07 AM

FYI, I still have not made a decision. I've been so swamped with work, a couple other projects and then Memorial weekend that I haven't had a chance to look. I'm hoping to get some time today to at least drive a F250 and maybe run over to a Dodge dealership and at least look.

I'm leaning towards a F150 again though.

Dmac420sj 05-31-2013 7:48 AM

Has anyone regeared a 1500 with 456 or 488s and if so how much a difference did it make as far as pulling power

polarbill 05-31-2013 8:57 AM

I really see zero reason for you to get a 3/4 ton truck unless you just flat out want it because it is bad arse. You already said your F150 EB 2wd tows great so from that stand point there isn't really a reason to get the bigger truck. You said you get pretty good MPG with your EB. You may get better in a diesel but if you do a lot of traffic driving is a diesel really any better than a gasser? The powerstroke takes DEF fluid doesn't it? If so the additional MPG may be negated. The longevity of a diesel doesn't sound like it should be a factor because you get rid of your truck every couple of years. I would expect the resale % to be about the same on a F150 EB 4x4 as an F250 powerstroke 4x4.

To me the F150 or other gasser will do everything you want it to just fine but will be easier to get around in and more comfortable. I am not saying don't get the F250. Get the F250 because you just think it is bad arse and because you want it. From a money/makes sense point of view I see no way the diesel fits your needs(based on what you have said) better than a gasser 1/2 ton.

Houstonshark 08-07-2013 6:29 PM

I figured I'd update everyone here. On Monday I traded my 2011 2WD Platinum Ecoboost with 55k miles on a new 2013 4WD Limited Ecoboost with 3.73 gears. Fuel economy is not near as good as my 2WD with 3.55's but I'm sure it will improve.

I really like this truck. I had a 08 Limited that I really liked but it just doesn't compare to this one. I originally did not care much for the red leather seats but they are growing on me.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps610a99a7.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps87336692.jpg

bryce2320 08-07-2013 6:30 PM

Big Money!!!! Hook up to that boat and post a pic!! :D

Houstonshark 08-07-2013 6:32 PM

Another quick interior pic. It's really more of a brick red.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps69277617.jpg

cwb4me 08-07-2013 6:47 PM

Nice looking truck T.J. Congrats!

polarbill 08-07-2013 6:51 PM

That truck is amazingly beautiful. I love everything about it. Color, Stance, wheels, interior, etc...

jk13 08-07-2013 6:53 PM

LOVE the red guts--from a lifetime customizer.

goride 08-07-2013 10:16 PM

Last month I picked up a 2013 GMC 3500 crew cab SLE diesel 4x4 long bed dually with leather, electric rear sliding window, power everything with chrome steps for $44k. I don't think I'd pay 40k for a 1/2 ton when you can get so much more truck for a little more

kstateskier 08-07-2013 10:25 PM

TJ, great looking truck! I've been eyeing a black one for a while at my local dealer. The exterior to me is the best looking truck out there stock. The wheels are perfect for that truck. Only thing scaring me is the $60K+ MSRP and the red interior. I wish they did it in all black or a black/grey combo...

goride, does that mean that you shouldn't pay $90k for a Range Rover because it won't pull as much as your $40k 3500? Some of you guys make absolutely no sense. I grew up in rural Kansas and know many people that need a 3500 diesel. I currently live in St. Louis and don't see many people that need a 3500 diesel as a daily driver. For some of us, a 1/2 ton makes way more sense. I couldn't park a dually at 99% of the places I go in a given day. I have absolutely no need for the power other that being able to pull a boat 100mph uphill on I-44 I guess, but is that really needed. Most of these 1500 engines now will easily keep the speed limit with any sub 24 footer anywhere around here.

cwb4me 08-08-2013 4:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goride (Post 1837873)
Last month I picked up a 2013 GMC 3500 crew cab SLE diesel 4x4 long bed dually with leather, electric rear sliding window, power everything with chrome steps for $44k. I don't think I'd pay 40k for a 1/2 ton when you can get so much more truck for a little more

Was it broke down on the side of the road?:D

CHern5972 08-08-2013 5:08 AM

Great looking truck man. Love the color. Interior looks killer. I tried to order mine that way and couldnt do it. The color i got with the Fxx2 interior and they wouldnt do it. But i do love this truck so far. Great looking ride



Allot of people fall into the hype of diesels. Dont get me wrong, they are great to have but can be a PITFA as well. I have owned a few diesels and they all were a PITFA. I went back to a 1/2 ton 2013 FX4 EB and love it. Rides great and pulls great.

Paxdad 08-08-2013 5:12 AM

Having owned both and using them as daily drivers and weekend boat hauling duties, the hands down all around winner is the 1/2 ton. The cost of diesel ownership is now extremely expensive unless you making a living with it (ie pulling a fifth wheel with skid loader, etc.).

Do the math diesel fuel cost vs. gasoline, maintenance (oil change doing it yourself), etc........ a diesel is expensive to operate. Sure the upfront cost of the vehicle is in the ballpark but the cost to operate a diesel 3/4 ton vs a 1/2 gasoline does not compare. If cost to operate is of no concern then I would certainly go with the 3/4 ton diesel.

CHern5972 08-08-2013 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxdad (Post 1837895)
Having owned both and using them as daily drivers and weekend boat hauling duties, the hands down all around winner is the 1/2 ton. The cost of diesel ownership is now extremely expensive unless you making a living with it (ie pulling a fifth wheel with skid loader, etc.).

Do the math diesel fuel cost vs. gasoline, maintenance (oil change doing it yourself), etc........ a diesel is expensive to operate. Sure the upfront cost of the vehicle is in the ballpark but the cost to operate a diesel 3/4 ton vs a 1/2 gasoline does not compare. If cost to operate is of no concern then I would certainly go with the 3/4 ton diesel.


I wasnt going to get into all that but you are 100% correct. Thats another reason i went back to a gasser.

ironj32 08-08-2013 7:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxdad (Post 1837895)
Having owned both and using them as daily drivers and weekend boat hauling duties, the hands down all around winner is the 1/2 ton. The cost of diesel ownership is now extremely expensive unless you making a living with it (ie pulling a fifth wheel with skid loader, etc.).

Do the math diesel fuel cost vs. gasoline, maintenance (oil change doing it yourself), etc........ a diesel is expensive to operate. Sure the upfront cost of the vehicle is in the ballpark but the cost to operate a diesel 3/4 ton vs a 1/2 gasoline does not compare. If cost to operate is of no concern then I would certainly go with the 3/4 ton diesel.

I too have had a half ton gasser and currently have a 3/4 ton diesel as both daily drivers and haulers, and have not had the same experience as you...pretty much the opposite of yours. I'm getting much better fuel economy out of my diesel than I did with both of my 1/2 ton gassers. The cost of premium fuel matches that of diesel, so the overall operational cost of it is, indeed, less. I'm seeing about 4-5 mpg better both when towing and driving normally (not to mention I don't have to deal with the trucking shifting every 15 seconds when towing the G around).

Houstonshark 08-08-2013 7:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1837889)
Was it broke down on the side of the road?:D

Lol!!!

jbach 08-08-2013 7:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickB52 (Post 1824643)
I know you stated wouldn't buy Tundra.....

tows like 3/4 however mileage isn't the best. I have a 4x4 with TRD off-road, 3/2 level, 305/55/20 and CAI - no squat with boat attached and can cruise at any speed without noticing boat is back there....

The 5.7 is a beast and the 6speed tranny helps on open highway

^this. go drive one. you'll be surprised.

timmyb 08-08-2013 7:48 AM

Sweet truck, TJ! Congrats! Love the red leather on those Limited's!

MylesK 08-08-2013 7:50 AM

Resale seems to be better on diesels than gassers too

goride 08-08-2013 8:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1837889)
Was it broke down on the side of the road?:D

nope but it was $11k off the sticker price. After owning a ford 7.3 and a 6.0 I now prefer the duramax.

TJ congrats on the F-150, i personally like the red interior and if I were to choose a 1/2 ton I'd get a ford EB. For work I've had a 1/2 ton GMC, Ford, Tundra and I prefer the Ford hands down.

Diesels are not for everyone. If all you are towing is a boat then your truck you just purchased is perfect, especially if you have not having to tow long grades.

I simply choose the truck I have because to tow horses and the weight shifts around as you are towing, plus the trailer is 16k lbs with 4 horses which is roughly 4,800 lbs of weight constantly shifting so for the safety factor I choose a dually diesel for beefier suspension, brakes, frame, etc.

There is no such thing as a pefect truck, they all have their own issues it's just choosing what's most important to you.

bryce2320 08-08-2013 8:05 AM

That ought to haul groceries anyways..... :p

goride 08-08-2013 8:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstateskier (Post 1837876)
TJ, great looking truck! I've been eyeing a black one for a while at my local dealer. The exterior to me is the best looking truck out there stock. The wheels are perfect for that truck. Only thing scaring me is the $60K+ MSRP and the red interior. I wish they did it in all black or a black/grey combo...

goride, does that mean that you shouldn't pay $90k for a Range Rover because it won't pull as much as your $40k 3500? Some of you guys make absolutely no sense. I grew up in rural Kansas and know many people that need a 3500 diesel. I currently live in St. Louis and don't see many people that need a 3500 diesel as a daily driver. For some of us, a 1/2 ton makes way more sense. I couldn't park a dually at 99% of the places I go in a given day. I have absolutely no need for the power other that being able to pull a boat 100mph uphill on I-44 I guess, but is that really needed. Most of these 1500 engines now will easily keep the speed limit with any sub 24 footer anywhere around here.

All i was saying is dont think $40k will only limit you to a 1/2 ton if buying new, youlll just have to go without some of the bells and whistles. I didnt realize TJ already bought a ford f-150 which is a great choice for towing a boat and running around town, I know my truck is a PITA for running around town thats why it stays parked and used for towing primarily.

If you can afford the luxury of a Range Rover and can justify it go for it, i'm not here to judge, it's not like owning a boat is cheap either.

nailem 08-08-2013 12:58 PM

I disagree. If you are comparing 3/4 gas to 3/4 diesel. My 05 duramax gets 17mpg. And diesel in my area is $3.89 that is $.228 per mile. My buddies 6.0 same year gets 12mpg at $3.47 that's $.289 per mile. I drive 15,000 miles a year, $.06 more per mile = $900/ye in file savings. Now when I tow I get 15mpg and he gets 6mpg.
The upfront cost of the diesel will be made up resale so that's a wash and maintenance is not much more per year. Add to that gas trucks are not cool.
I'm holding out to see what the new Ram 1/2 diesel, claim is 25 city and 29 highway

Houstonshark 08-09-2013 6:40 AM

My previous Ecoboost averaged 17.5mpg over the entire 55k miles (I never reset one of the trip computers). It would get 22mpg on the highway all day long but I also do a lot of city driving and idling. That motor only requires 87 octane.

I didn't drive a 1500 Dodge Ram with the diesel but I did drive the new Hemi w/8spd auto and it was nice.

nailem 08-09-2013 7:39 AM

The 1/2 Dodge diesel is not out yet.


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