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-   -   Loss of power in the indmar 410. Any ideas please (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=798135)

dnell 05-16-2013 10:42 AM

Loss of power in the indmar 410. Any ideas please
 
Need some ideas here. Any will be good. So I have a 2013 MB F21 Tomcat. It has the Indmar 410 in it and I have a Acme 2079 high altitude prop on it. Up until this last weekend it has been a true power house. We ride full ballast 1800lbs and 600-650 lbs in the nose. Around 3-8 adults at any given time. This last weekend we had 5 adults all between 120-200 lbs and 2 kids 60lbs max. The boat has never had a single issue getting on plane. Most the time I don't even use the cav plate. Well the boat has no power now. Takes forever to get on plane even with the plate down. It honestly feels like someone swapped engines and prop on me. So of course it is under warrantee but I'm just confused???? Just wondering if anyone has had this happen to them or has any ideas at all on the loss of power. The dealer hooked up there computer and said there was no errors. Water test tonight (may 16)... Thanks for any info.

pip9ball 05-16-2013 10:47 AM

You don't have to have zero-off set do you?

dnell 05-16-2013 11:04 AM

Made no difference if Zero Off was on or off.

durty_curt 05-16-2013 11:19 AM

Did You Check The Engine, tranny And V Drive Fluid Levels?

dnell 05-16-2013 11:28 AM

I did. All good boat has 50 hrs.

pip9ball 05-16-2013 11:57 AM

Check the fuel line and filter. Also check the raw water inlet.

Strange that no codes were thrown though.

pip9ball 05-16-2013 12:00 PM

Is this similar behavior?

http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.ph...00-rpms/page-2

Dustin from MB is my buddy, let me call him real quick.

-P

jeff_mn 05-16-2013 12:03 PM

Sounds like your ECU went into safe/limp mode..

alexair 05-16-2013 12:04 PM

Your speech is not clear as for me. How is max RPM in idle and under load now? Did you got this problem after launch the boat or during ride? Did you fill fuel on gas station? Did you see your prop?

bjames 05-16-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_mn (Post 1822636)
Sounds like your ECU went into safe/limp mode..

Exacly what I was thinking... My 2011 X25 would all of a suddon go into limp mode. When this happened, the boat was very sluggish and would top out at 2000rpm. I also noticed a suttle "putt putt" sound. After restarting, the problem would go away.. sometimes. Warranty fixed it. It had to do with EMC communcation error.

slipknot 05-16-2013 12:40 PM

Dustin, Did they compression test all cylinders?

dnell 05-16-2013 2:21 PM

As of now no compression test that I know of. This all started right when we got to the lake first time up. Turned the engine off to switch riders and problem never got any better. There is no change at full throttle or anything. With all ballast empty on the way back it seamed to run fine. So I stopped and filled the main ballast and as soon as there was a load on it it bogged down again. Very strange.

craigtxmc 05-16-2013 2:36 PM

If it won't go past 2500 rpm then it has went into limp mode. It just needs to go to the shop where they can clear code. Shouldn't be a big deal. Is there a dealer near you?

imscarlet 05-16-2013 3:25 PM

Open or closed cooling system?

dnell 05-16-2013 4:03 PM

I have a great dealer taking care if it. If its in this limp mode what causes this? I have never heard of this before.

lionel 05-16-2013 4:09 PM

Hopefully just a cylinder misfire code. Have your dealer call JT at Indmar if they need help clearing the code and/or updating your ECM if need be.

dhcomp1 05-16-2013 4:12 PM

Check your plug wires.

I've had plug wires come off, but look like they are on.

Kills the power, and throws a misfire code on these motors.

wakewoody 05-16-2013 6:17 PM

My 11 Malibu with this engine did this. Have the exhaust manifolds/ cats checked. Mine had to be changed at 20 hrs

chattwake 05-17-2013 7:42 AM

Here's your problem: you've most likely been running 87 octane. You have a generation IV motor with fuel learn. You've managed to run probably 3 tanks of 87 through the motor and it has pulled significant timing. If you want to fix the issue, you can either run 3 tanks of high octane gas though the boat and the ecm will correct the timing issue, or you can take the boat to your dealer and have them reset the ecm settings.

flapjack 05-17-2013 9:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1822805)
Here's your problem: you've most likely been running 87 octane. You have a generation IV motor with fuel learn. You've managed to run probably 3 tanks of 87 through the motor and it has pulled significant timing. If you want to fix the issue, you can either run 3 tanks of high octane gas though the boat and the ecm will correct the timing issue, or you can take the boat to your dealer and have them reset the ecm settings.


Are you sure about that advice. I just pulled this off the Indmar L96 spec page.

Specs

Type: 6.0L V-8 VVT (Gen-IV Small Block)
Displacement: 364 cid (5967 cc)
Compression Ratio: 9.6:1
Valve Configuration: Overhead Valves (2 valves per cylinder)
Valve Lifters: Hydraulic Roller with variable valve timing
Firing Order: 1 - 8 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3
Bore x Stroke: 101.6 X 92 mm
Bore Center: 111.76 mm
Bore Area: 648.59 cm2
Fuel System: Sequential Fuel Injection
Fuel Type: Regular Unleaded (maximum 10% ethanol)

http://www.indmar.com/mobile/engines...cs-mobile.aspx

chattwake 05-17-2013 12:30 PM

Yes, I am sure of this advise.

shawndoggy 05-17-2013 12:40 PM

ha utah is like nepal or something... I was agast when I saw 85 at the pump. That said, Chat, because of the significant elevation the OP is running at are you sure the ECU is pulling timing? I thought the reason they can get away offering 85 in Utah is that you don't detonate as readily at altitude. Assuming that premise is true, and assuming the engine computer doesn't have an octane sensor, but rather pulls timing based on knock, I'm not sure chat's theory is right.

dnell 05-17-2013 2:37 PM

That's a good thought on the gas but in utah 87 is the mid grade and that is what I use. Regular is 85 premium is 91. Some stations offer 89. From what I know about engines regardless of the octagon the management systems will adjust to it. Loss of power is possible but not what I experienced. The mechanics took it out today and everything checked out perfect. So was this a fluke??? I guess we will see. But just in case ill top the fuel off with 91..

chattwake 05-17-2013 7:25 PM

It take three tanks for it to change. Topping off will do no good.

Alleykat 05-17-2013 7:43 PM

Where is the "octane sensor" located?

ProvoMB52 05-17-2013 9:55 PM

Dustin,
Sorry to hear of your problem. I'm not around right now, where I could meet up with you and see what things were looking like. I know Mike, and Jason, will help figure it out. Keep updating everyone here so if we end up with the same scenario, we will know where to turn. The octane issue sounds like a real possibility. A resent on the sensor, may be exactly what you need. I do know that even though Premium is big bucks, it's all I run through our 23.

Good luck.

shawndoggy 05-17-2013 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleykat (Post 1822992)
Where is the "octane sensor" located?

LOLz

Alleykat 05-17-2013 10:27 PM

The engine doesn't have one.... I know. Nor is there one in the fuel tank. I doubt very seriously that this guys concern is caused by three octane points. Especially when the engine builder specs 87. Timing curves are built off info from the knock sensors. Is there a miniscule difference in output from possibly running 91-93 octane................possibly, but nothing that would result in this type of customer concern.

Depending on build date of your engine, look at Indmar bulletin # SB2012-2 and possibly SB2013-3. If your engine needs these updates, you may have also damagd the cats and exhaust manifolds. I know MB likes to roll out a model a year or two early sometimes and you very well may have a 2012 production year engine in your 2013.

chattwake 05-18-2013 3:44 PM

Well, all I know is that this is what I was told by an individual who sells boats with this exact motor, and I'm not talking about a dealer, but a person whose job is to know these things. Good luck. I know I ran several tanks of 87 through an ls3 last season and experienced a drastic loss of power when the boat pulled timing due to the new fuel learn technology incorporated into gen iv motors.

craigtxmc 05-18-2013 4:15 PM

The best/easiest thing to do would be to reset the fuel learn with diacom and then run mid grade fuel. Premium is always best, but often unavailable.

Any service center with diacom should be able to take care of that for you. It most likely is a simple fix. It's hard to imagine any cat or manifold damage would occur in an almost new engine. Hopefully that holds true and the reset will work. The good news is you are under warranty.

shawndoggy 05-18-2013 7:21 PM

It's only going to learn it has low octane fuel from detonation. At 5k'+ (which I'm sure is NOT where chat's guru is boating) you aren't going to detonate on 87.

chattwake 05-19-2013 5:28 AM

How about calling indmar and asking someone there what they think?

shawndoggy 05-19-2013 8:11 AM

c'mon chat what fun would the interwebs be without phony umbrage and rampant speculation?


(calling indmar is great advice)

CarZin 05-20-2013 9:30 AM

If he can't get higher octane, then I think adding an octane booster to his fuel would be nice. There is an older article comparing the octane boost of various additives. Granted, it is expensive, but could be a solution.

http://www.fueltechexperts.com/2008/...which-is-best/

dnell 05-22-2013 6:51 AM

Current update. Water test by the mechanic with his computer found nothing wrong. He said boat runs like a champ. So we took it out Sunday morning and it was perfect. I'm a little confused to say the least but I'm going to make sure I use good gas and just pay attention to my boat. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input.

migs 05-22-2013 8:59 AM

^ ^ I HATE when that happens.


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