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-   -   Boosted Boat motors (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797858)

simplej 04-29-2013 4:49 PM

Boosted Boat motors
 
Why do you guys think we haven't seem a turbo'd boat motor yet? Inter-cooling shouldn't be too difficult with water plumbed on board and the motors seem like they could be ideal for wake boats given a long flat torque curve would be ideal in our application. Peak torque would come in right where need to be on plane or getting on plane (BMW n55 around 2k and fords EB v-6 around 3k) with a steady curve from low rpms to mid range not to mention a simple tune makes some pretty loony numbers.

There are boosted jet skis and super charged wake boats but why no turbo? Does it just stem from the fact that its too expensive? On boost all the time? Difficult to marinize? I'd be interested to know why it hasn't been done, perhaps they are in development...

pprior 04-29-2013 6:17 PM

I would imagine it would pretty much be on boost all the time, which would negate the benefit of the turbo. Boat engines are aways under heavy load when running compared with a car engine which limp along on much less HP when speed obtained.

But that's just my guess completely unencumbered by any first hand knowledge or experience :)

simplej 04-29-2013 7:43 PM

I was thinking being on boost a lot of the time the overall negation of any fuel economy benefits. The 20k option supercharged motors have a nice torque curve, and none of the current motors have a bad torque curve nor are they deficient, I guess it would be nice to get stump pulling torque from ~1500 to ~4300 instead of ~3000 to redline like the lsa in a base motor

corerider 04-29-2013 8:01 PM

My first guesses would be price, heat, and space. A single or twin turbo setup would be much more involved from a cost and space aspect. All of the piping for both the exhaust and induction sides even without an IC would make for one tight and busy engine compartment. Since exhaust gases have to pass through the turbo the headers wouldn't be water cooled which would make for really hot engine compartment temps. If they did make the exhaust headers jacketed (pipe within a pipe) so water could cool them the exhaust gas temps and velocity would drop causing reduced turbo spool times.

Not saying any of this couldn't be done (there are race boats and larger cruisers with turbos now) but I don't think you will see it in the wakeboard market anytime soon. Big cubes or supercharging are better means right now.


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alindquist 04-30-2013 5:29 AM

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/hp1100.php#
http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/hp1350.php
http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/hp1650.php

Mercury has been making them for a few years for the "Go Fast" guys...

cadunkle 04-30-2013 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplej (Post 1819380)
Why do you guys think we haven't seem a turbo'd boat motor yet? Inter-cooling shouldn't be too difficult with water plumbed on board ...

Plumbing an intercooler on a boat is not so simple. Turbo plumbing is difficult on any vehicle, even more so on a boat and dealing with water as well. Space in a boats engine compartment is also very tight, particularly v-drive wake boats with all the other marine components. It difficult to design, expensive, and makes servicing everything else much more difficult.

Beyond that, your wake boat is not like a fast car or a go fast boat. It's pulling a heavy load at low speeds and needs torque at lower RPM. Forced induction in those cases is of little use as it will encourage predetonation and to avoid it you would be running very little pressure. You're better off with lots of displacement, relatively high compression and a cam that gives a broad flat torque curve. Build a wake boat engine like you build a tow pig engine. Lots of displacement and lots of torque at all RPM. Does not need to be a screamer.

psudy 04-30-2013 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alindquist (Post 1819440)

Jesus. I didn't see they started making a 1650! Come on lottery!

airbeast 07-14-2013 12:38 AM

I know this is old but I've found it pretty interesting. I don't know of any good reason there are not many turboed wake boats. Maybe just exhaust a little more complexity and worry that people are going to start turning up their boost and blowing engines?

I swapped in a diesel so had to make every piece of exhaust, intercooler piping, and cooling. If you got a tig and a plasma cutter, it's really not that bad of a job.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ps57cc1ca0.jpg


Gas is a little different having a throttle body but same physics apply.

Like said above, it would be on boost most of the time. But you would still be a little more effecient than without it depending on your tuning.

Heat is not an issue. Pretty much all marine engines have water jacketed exhausts and turbos. My exhaust is but the turbo is from a Cummins so it's not. I have a turbo blanket on it. No problem with the heat. Exhaust gasses getting cooled is really negligible, especially in a boat.

Most wakeboard boats are propped to where you're instantly at 2500rpm as soon as you hit the throttle. Lag is not an issue. It takes mine about one second to hit full boost.

A properly sized turbo gives a VERY nice torque curve.

Space, however, was a major issue on mine but it's tighter than a lot of the other boats.

Point being... Turbos, everyone should have one!

Brett_B 07-15-2013 7:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corerider (Post 1819414)
My first guesses would be price, heat, and space. A single or twin turbo setup would be much more involved from a cost and space aspect. All of the piping for both the exhaust and induction sides even without an IC would make for one tight and busy engine compartment. Since exhaust gases have to pass through the turbo the headers wouldn't be water cooled which would make for really hot engine compartment temps. If they did make the exhaust headers jacketed (pipe within a pipe) so water could cool them the exhaust gas temps and velocity would drop causing reduced turbo spool times.

Not saying any of this couldn't be done (there are race boats and larger cruisers with turbos now) but I don't think you will see it in the wakeboard market anytime soon. Big cubes or supercharging are better means right now.


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Yep, agree with all of this.

timmyb 07-15-2013 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psudy (Post 1819542)
Jesus. I didn't see they started making a 1650! Come on lottery!

:eek::cool::eek::cool: HOLY F!@#!!! That's a 9.0L turbocharged weapon of mass destruction! That engine is just pure awesomeness!

timmyb 07-15-2013 10:11 AM

Might be difficult swallowing that fuel bill for "112 Aki Sunoco Supreme or equivalent race fuel"

Brearly_Mason 07-15-2013 1:13 PM

Check out Mark Putnam's go fast boat..
Here

cowwboy 07-23-2013 1:06 PM

Here is a set up that doesn't look to take up much room.
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/boa/3925016030.html

machloosy 07-23-2013 1:50 PM

Miss Geico Racing has a pair of 1650's in their current Mystic boat, so the argument about turbo's not performing well under high/long term stress, is a non-starter. And there is a Daytona Eliminator from PSI racing in FL that has a 2jz motor in it, that he has successfully run in poker runs. The bottom line is, turbo's are not only possible, but they are already being used. One of the challenges is cooling the turbo's. Custom water jackets have a tendency to crack due to the extreme heating/cooling cycles and the massive heat that turbo's build so quickly. This creates a situation where the turbo heats up(expands) much more rapidly than the external water jacket.

Anyhow... Turbo's ARE realistic in wake boats, but it's going to take more R&D (which means more cost to us), to create a reliable platform. The ease of using big cube NA motors in 150K boats makes sense because the demand is for easy torque rather than all out speed like the offshore guys. Superchargers offer this instant on/off tq and that is why we see some packages available with them. Even variable vane turbo's take some spool time, and the torque curve generally(not always) comes in higher than on a blower motor.

corerider 07-24-2013 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowwboy (Post 1835233)
Here is a set up that doesn't look to take up much room.
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/boa/3925016030.html

You're right it doesn't take up much room, but it doesn't perform well either from what I was told. The turbo gets air from a draw-through design after the carb, and then pushes air back into the intake right at the heads. They only ran 3-5 pounds of boost and had bad detonation issues from ruuning too lean. The setup was not reliable and had horrible problems.

I just don't ever see turbos being used in wakeboats unless as a turbo diesel design. I see superchargers being used more on gas engines or just more cubic inches. What would be really nice is for PCM, Illmor, etc. to open up their ECM code for aftermarket tuning. Then we could swap cam, heads, intakes, add supercharger, etc. and tune them accordingly. Alas I don't see that happening anytime soon either.

Brearly_Mason 07-24-2013 11:38 AM

There are a lot of boats out there that are turbocharged...

Check the Turbo Boat Forum... some guy is building a bayliner with 3.0L turbo setup.

Also, when I lived in Idaho there were tons of River Jet Boats with 350's and turbos in them. Many had it all hidden under the deck too.

whatshesaid 07-25-2013 11:46 AM

Cost, noise, heat, and price.

Brearly_Mason 07-25-2013 3:47 PM

Heat is not an issue when you have an entire lake acting as your radiator.


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