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-   -   stereo before earmark marine and stereo after earmark marine (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797412)

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:40 PM

stereo before earmark marine and stereo after earmark marine
 
just picked up my x80 from earmark this weekend, it was a long road but i couldnt be happier! the quality of the craftsmanship is top notch. the sound is out of this world. its crazy what a stereo can actually sound like if you know what your doing. earmark was about the 4th stereo shop my boat has been to in the last few years, from now on it will be the only audio shop my boat sees! for you guys out there that really dont have time to tackle the do it yourself projects earmark lewisville is the place to go, they are worth every penny! like to give a big thanks to david, joe, james and aaron!

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:44 PM

3 Attachment(s)
before

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
now 2 13w6 in a bandpass box

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:47 PM

and glove box where factory sub was

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
1

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:52 PM

3 Attachment(s)
new amp racks and battery box, has fans help move the air from the hot amps

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
amp rack

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:58 PM

2 Attachment(s)
bow sub, also has a gain knob up there that controls the sub and both bow inside speakers. specifically for the wife.

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 8:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
tower

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 9:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
pic of the box before it was installed

bryce2320 03-24-2013 9:22 PM

wow, looks good. I bet that tower is ridiculously loud!!!! And that sub box is huge!!!! Congrats, I bet it sounds great!

Elliottsx80 03-24-2013 9:26 PM

tower is crazy loud, really the whole boat is crazy loud. ive never been in a boat that puts out bass like this thing does, the wife lasted about 20 seconds and was like it hurts my eye balls and makes me have to pee lol

dezul 03-25-2013 6:02 AM

Robby, What lake do you normally go to in Oklahoma? Sweet setup btw. It looks insanely loud.

bryce2320 03-25-2013 6:53 AM

Anyone boat at kaw lake in Ponca city, OK?

hatepain 03-25-2013 7:05 AM

I bet it was nice got them to work on such a big boat with loads of space. Came out great!

Elliottsx80 03-25-2013 7:40 AM

i usually run out to lake thunderbird, i only live about 10 miles from it. we also go to eufaula, texhoma, beavers bend. this year i will just be looking for some lakes that have water! were in a pretty serious drought in central oklahoma, from what i hear alot of the lakes are feet from getting shut down

dezul 03-25-2013 8:13 AM

It seems like all those lakes would be pretty choppy from the wind. Broken Bow Lake is pretty nice and it has some coves that are butter but that would be a haul. I hear Texhoma and Eufaula are pretty fun to party on. When I lived there, I lived 20 miles from Broken Bow Lake so we normally went there. All the lakes around OKC are red dirt lakes right? Is it a pain to get the stain off of the boat?

Elliottsx80 03-25-2013 8:41 AM

like any other lake really, trying to stay on the upwind side of the wind, only thing that sucks about eufaula and texhoma, the lakes are so dang big, and depending on where your staying that can be a 3 hour boat ride. ya the rest of the lakes are red dirt/clay lakes. they are freaking nasty. lake thunderbird you def dont bring anything white to, because its orange when you leave! for most people they struggle with the stains, but i went industrial with my cleaning supplys! i dont do this every time, but when it starts getting a good orange ring around the boat i use just straight muraitic acid in a weed sprayer on the waterline and down! most think im crazy but i have been using it for 3 years on my x80 and the gelcoat still looks great. i just spray it on, leave it for like 10 sec and then power wash off small areas at a time, absolutely zero scrubbing involved at all and it looks brand new when your done. i only do this 3 or 4 times a year, and always put a thick coat of wax on it afterwards. the rest of the time i just use vinegar to keep it knocked down.

dezul 03-25-2013 9:20 AM

Are you an OU or OSU grad?

cowwboy 03-25-2013 9:28 AM

Elliot, arcadia is actually high right now. You should be able to sneak your boat in. Last summer there was a couple of x80 running around even with the 26' limit.
I haven't been by texoma yet but eufaula should be good by spring. Oge keeps constant levels at our two cooling lakes. But they are a bit of a drive and 0 party scene.

FunkyBunch 03-25-2013 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowwboy (Post 1813389)
Elliot, arcadia is actually high right now. You should be able to sneak your boat in. Last summer there was a couple of x80 running around even with the 26' limit.
I haven't been by texoma yet but eufaula should be good by spring. Oge keeps constant levels at our two cooling lakes. But they are a bit of a drive and 0 party scene.

Texoma is very low for this time of year. -7 to 8ft.

Elliottsx80 03-25-2013 9:54 AM

went to ou for a day and went to two wrong classes so i never went back, wasnt my cup of tea. a sooner fan for sure!

grant_west 03-25-2013 7:48 PM

System looks great. Sounds like you had the typical boat audio experience. Ya know you have a idea how and what your looking for and you come across a few different shops that "Say" they know what they are doing and they fall short. I'm glad earmark was able to come threw for you.
Most people have no Idea what it takes or what a real system sounds like. You will find that the system is a process. No system is perfect first go round. You will find you will still be back for more goodies but eventually you will have the ultimate system that works for you . It's so nice for you to have the room to install a huge box like you did.
Enjoy the new system and have fun.

Midnightv10 03-25-2013 9:12 PM

Great looking system!!
That amp rack looks fantastic!!

shunra 03-26-2013 10:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliottsx80 (Post 1813324)
pic of the box before it was installed

Is that two separate 4th order bandpass boxes each with their own port? I am curious becuase I am in the process of designing a 4th order bandpass for a single 13W6

pprior 03-26-2013 11:02 AM

?? where in the world does that sub box go??? That looks like something to installed in a full sized monster home theater system, not a wakeboard boat!

Elliottsx80 03-26-2013 12:05 PM

i know its a bandpass box but i have no idea what kind it is. the box is located on the port side of the boat. pretty much goes the whole length of the port side seating in the cock pit. im guessing about 5 to 6 feet long and about 30 inch or so wide and tall..... its a beast for sure!!!

Elliottsx80 03-26-2013 12:07 PM

you might ask david what the specs are on the box, he designed and built it. or maybe he will chime in and tell us. to me its 5000 watts of fun lol

david_e_m 03-26-2013 1:59 PM

Here is the scoop on the subwoofer.
It is two JL Audio 13W6 bandpass enclosures run end to end.
Each is driven by its own JL Audio MHD750/1.
These dual BP enclosures, compound loaded and powered by twin HD750/1s are 12 dB more output than a single 13W6 in a sealed box powered by a single HD750/1....so the equivalent of 16 times the amplifier power.
You will not only feel the compression in your chest, it will suck the breath out of your lungs if you get too close on heavy bass material.
I was seriously disoriented after just a few minutes of listening to Bottom Feeders.
The other part of this design was to completely eliminate the seating console cavity as a trap for bass energy. The sub system is totally direct-radiating and sealed against the exterior.
The pan collects the two ports and couples to the outside vent.
The ports have a 5% downward angle to deflect water and the bottom of the pan is angled with drains.

David
Earmark Marine

Wakesounds 03-26-2013 2:31 PM

Great explanation David. I wished I lived in Texas, our installers here aren't any better than the weekend warrior's like myself.

baitkiller 03-26-2013 3:17 PM

What did he say? i cant hear a thing!

grant_west 03-26-2013 4:21 PM

David: What about Diminishing Returns:)

03-26-2013 4:24 PM

post a video of this thing playing!!!

tn_rider 03-26-2013 4:54 PM

^^^^ what he said

tn_rider 03-26-2013 4:55 PM

I wonder what db this boat could hit?

david_e_m 03-26-2013 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant_west (Post 1813630)
David: What about Diminishing Returns:)

Somehow that concept never got applied to this system.

Elliottsx80 03-26-2013 5:14 PM

what do you mean by diminishing returns? ill try to get a video up this evening

pprior 03-26-2013 9:10 PM

In all seriousness: won't that thing just destroy a boat over time. I mean every freaking bolt that doesn't have loctite on it will come loose and the fiberglass will be flexing like Arnold in the 70's!

Elliottsx80 03-26-2013 9:38 PM

That's why god made screw drivers lol, I'm sure ill be doing a ton of tighting after each trip out, but its worth it I guess. Probably sell the boat after this season. Considering having a Pavati built

03-26-2013 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pprior (Post 1813686)
In all seriousness: won't that thing just destroy a boat over time. I mean every freaking bolt that doesn't have loctite on it will come loose and the fiberglass will be flexing like Arnold in the 70's!

I bet the boat on the trailer doing 70mph on the interstate would do more harm than the subs.

you_da_man 03-26-2013 10:37 PM

David, I bet you guys pissed off some businesses in that plaza your shop is in. I would have driver the 3 hours to the shop just to hear that boat. I'm glad I'm close enough to have Earmark do my all my boats stereo systems. The custom enclosure David designed for my Axis is amazing in clear, deep bass.

david_e_m 03-31-2013 10:26 PM

A.J.
Thank you.
And yes, that system could be a lease buster.

Here are a few more details and photos of Robby's boat.

http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/insta...Craft-X-80.asp

All the guys at the shop want to thank Robby.

David
Earmark Marine

volzalum 04-01-2013 6:48 PM

Very nice job David!! Nice system Robby!!

BradM07SS 04-02-2013 5:16 AM

Can you give a little on the box size and ratio. How big is the sealed section? ported section? and what fq is it tuned?

Thanks
Brad

hatepain 04-02-2013 9:42 AM

Those enclosures look pretty damn awesome and aren't something your weekend warrior can build our even your average shop.

It had to be Peru fun to work with such a large boat :)

MylesK 04-02-2013 10:08 AM

Looks like I am going to have to make a trip over to dirty bird this season to hear this thing. I've seen you guys all over the place, hard to miss the big yellow X-80!

david_e_m 04-02-2013 12:17 PM

Brad,
Those are boat-specific one-off enclosures that are the maximum that would fit the X-80.
Now the V2 W6 has been replaced by the V3 that has different parameters. Plus, the 13.5" W6 has been discontinued. So we are back to the drawing board for the new V3 10"s and 12"s.
For a boat we target a 1.5 octave bandwidth with as linear of a response as we can get over that bandwidth. Then we measure the impedance curve to make sure that both impedance peaks fall where expected with a relatively consistent impedance between the two. It's a lot of work to get a bandpass just right. And its awesome when you get it.

David
Earmark Marine
David

cowwboy 04-02-2013 1:03 PM

Did you use a fork lift to put it in?

drnate 04-02-2013 4:42 PM

Wow, 5000 watts. I cannot even imagine that. I have 2 REV 10's on my tower and they hurt my ears :)

shunra 04-03-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_e_m (Post 1813608)
Here is the scoop on the subwoofer.
It is two JL Audio 13W6 bandpass enclosures run end to end.
Each is driven by its own JL Audio MHD750/1.
These dual BP enclosures, compound loaded and powered by twin HD750/1s are 12 dB more output than a single 13W6 in a sealed box powered by a single HD750/1....so the equivalent of 16 times the amplifier power.
You will not only feel the compression in your chest, it will suck the breath out of your lungs if you get too close on heavy bass material.
I was seriously disoriented after just a few minutes of listening to Bottom Feeders.
The other part of this design was to completely eliminate the seating console cavity as a trap for bass energy. The sub system is totally direct-radiating and sealed against the exterior.
The pan collects the two ports and couples to the outside vent.
The ports have a 5% downward angle to deflect water and the bottom of the pan is angled with drains.

David
Earmark Marine


Dual compound loaded boxes! So that means 4 woofers right?

david_e_m 04-03-2013 10:34 AM

Sean,
No. Two drivers and two enclosures total. 'Compound loaded' as applied here means collected in a point source. The port-to-port arrangement provides a bit more output than separated positions similar to the way wall, floor, or corner boundary loading gives you an increase. The way bass propagates and dissipates in an open field every bit of acoustic leverage helps. We pulled together a number of acoustic principles in this subwoofer system to maximize efficiency.

David
Earmark Marine

cowwboy 04-03-2013 1:07 PM

Any shots of the inside of the box?

BradM07SS 04-03-2013 1:44 PM

So can you actually here the sub in the bow or is it really just for looks.

Since you describe the other subs as "You will not only feel the compression in your chest, it will suck the breath out of your lungs if you get too close on heavy bass material." I assume it would drone out the front bow sub.

We need a video of this setup. I've been some boats with some pretty high dollar gear , over 3000rms watts to just the subs and it didn't give me near that feeling. Was it loud yes but not near as described.

Elliottsx80 04-03-2013 2:02 PM

thanks everyone for the comments on the stereo.

the bow sub is more for looks probably than anything. i already had a sub up there. it was just cheaper to have a better setup installed in the bow while it was at earmark, than have the whole fiberglassed and painted. the bow sub does help a little bit if you are sitting in the bow. gives the 2 7.7s a little richer sound. by no means does it pound.

Elliottsx80 04-03-2013 2:16 PM

also i havent played any tuning cds or freqs or how ever you get good bottom feeders that davids taking about. but one thing that it does to me. if your standing in the rear of the boat playing whatever rap song with some long bass notes. it will instantly blur your vision bad and its impossible for me or any of my friends that listen to it to make it a whole song without your eyes starting to water. thats with my bass knob on my 420 at about 3:00. i listen to it at about 1:00 its still louder than anything ive ever heard on a boat and comfortable

davidggriffith 04-03-2013 2:25 PM

we need a video

Elliottsx80 04-03-2013 2:40 PM

ill try to get a video up by this weekend.

Midnightv10 04-03-2013 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliottsx80 (Post 1814927)
it will instantly blur your vision bad

Ok now that just doesn't sound healthy:confused:

LOVE IT!!!

david_e_m 04-03-2013 5:10 PM

It is a bit extreme. No doubt. I was uncomfortable and disoriented after a short period. Prolonged listening at that level isn't recommended.
But the nice thing is that when playing normal music at a normal to loud listen level with the bass at a more integrated level, there is no audible sign of the subwoofer or amplifiers driving them. It's operating so much under capacity that you just hear commanding, musical bass with total ease. And that alone is very different than the typical boat sub system.
The bow sub is really nice fill to match the single pair of 770s. Nothing extra but just balanced within that small zone.
It's hard to have musical bass when you overdrive the midbass components. Strong midbass is essential for the balance of upper bass harmonics that provide tonal construction and pitch accuracy. I can't imagine doing this sub system with 6.5" coaxials. They simply wouldn't keep up at higher levels. The 770s are needed. Not that many boats would cooperate with the scheme in Robby's. It's unique.

David
Earmark Marine

Midnightv10 04-03-2013 5:23 PM

Yeah.. I got to get me some of that tonal construction..:cool:

CobraRob 04-04-2013 12:42 PM

Have you done any big sub setups in an X-45?

Right now I have a box in the storage area behind the helm has 3 10" kicker L5s..Powered by 1500W Power RF amp.

I know it's mostly the box design that is causing issues it's build great and looks awesome but most of the sound is being lost in that compartment and not coming out the enlarged port where the stock sub was. If I have the rear locker on that side empty and open it I probably get 30% or more bass out out it.

I am not tooooo far from earmark but too far to drive up just to look at it. Just wondering if I could do something better at a reasonable cost. whoknows.

david_e_m 04-04-2013 3:04 PM

Cobra Rob,
Sometimes I get boat blend. On your boat does the expansive helm locker extend up under the bow and have a gull wing cushion on the bow side of the helm for access? If so, here is what is happening. That huge helm compartment with the adjoining bow cavity and gunnel cavities constitutes an enormous and compliant air mass. The 10-inch vent represents a small and resistive opening as a ratio of the entire console mass. So there is little impetus for the bass radiation to push/pull through the opening. Too much bass radiation is being trapped and absorbed.
On Robby's boat the bench seat compartment is sealed off and completely eliminated. So 100% of the bass energy is driven into the cockpit.
If you can increase the size of the vent and reduce the resistance then this will help.
If you can funnel the woofer output through the vent opening in a short and sealed manner as to not create resistance, not reduce the radiating surface area and not create a new resonant chamber then this will help the output. Not an easy task I know.

David
Earmark Marine

Dmac420sj 04-04-2013 3:36 PM

David you are like a stereo scientist!

pprior 04-04-2013 4:00 PM

David working in the stereo lab at night...

Elliottsx80 04-04-2013 4:24 PM

i have to google have the stuff he says and i still dont understand it

david_e_m 04-04-2013 4:51 PM

I've been at this for a long time so I'm comfortable with these concepts. But consider this example.
Let's say you place a home sub, like a small Bose 5.1 sub, in the next room and installed a heater vent in the wall as a pass-through. How much bass energy will be absorbed in the next room and how much will get through into the room you are in? You would hear the slow jungle rumble passing through the wall but not much impact.
Now in contrast, place that same sub in a very small water heater closet and double the size of the pass-through vent. Can you see how more energy will get through and you will get a little closer to the true sound of the sub.
Next, mount the same sub in the same wall from the other room in a sealed fashion. The sub enclosure may be in the other room but ALL the radiation plays into the listening room. That's the scenario we are after if possible. If we can't obtain the ideal sealed coupling to the listening area then we want a small cavity and a large vent as the next best option.

David
Earmark Marine

CobraRob 04-05-2013 9:20 AM

The compartment is open to the area under the helm, where all the heater stuff is. It's also open to the back. Mainly it's 3 subs facing the inside wall of the boat (towards the seating area), and only the stock sub hole enlarged for it to all get out.

I didn't want to but it's only a 3.5 hour ride up there.. I thought I was done spending money on the system but I really think the sub is a weak link. Without you taking look at the entire system I know it's a complete guessing game. Just not sure how much I need to plan on spending.

david_e_m 04-05-2013 10:27 AM

Cobra Rob,
Before you make such a drive, send lots of photos at different perspectives and distances (it helps to see the subs in context to their surroundings) to Joe in Lewisville. Also, give him a detailed list of what you have in subs and amplification.
lewisville@earmarkcaraudio.com

David
Earmark Marine

CobraRob 04-05-2013 11:45 AM

David,

Awesome.. will take this offline and see what we can do. Thanks


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