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-   -   Blocking leaf springs on trailer for bigger wheels? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797314)

bryce2320 03-18-2013 8:58 AM

Blocking leaf springs on trailer for bigger wheels?
 
I've got an 04 Dorsey trailer that has 14 wheels on it. I've got aftermarket 18" wheels coming to replace the 14". I was wondering if ill have enough clearance for the tires not to rub the fenders. I was hoping if I need more room I could block the leaf springs to raise the trailer from the axle. What's everyone else do to get more clearance? I guess I will know more when they get here and I put one on, but just like to plan ahead a little. Any input or insight would b awesome. Thanks in advance.

Brearly_Mason 03-18-2013 10:10 AM

Do not put a block between the leaf spring and the axle. If you insist on raising the trailer then relocate the spring perches. By placing a block between the spring and the axle you are greatly increasing the rotation force that will be applied to the springs and hangers. You are effectively increasing the bending moment or lever. A trailer already experiences significant torsional strain since on a tandem axle trailer the tires and sidewall have to deform so that the trailer can actually turn.

Probably the best solution is to relocate the fenders if you have enough clearance. This will also maintain the lower center of gravity of the trailer.

nitrousbird 03-19-2013 7:53 AM

Assuming you get the same overall tire diameter as stock, you "should" be able to just replace the fenders with something wider and be good to go.

tyler97217 03-19-2013 9:08 AM

As nitrousbird said.... You probably won't have an issue with height cause you will end up with a lower profile tire. Height should end up being pretty similar to your stock set up. The thing you will really need to do is work on the width. It will probably rub on the inside of your fender.

bryce2320 03-22-2013 6:58 PM

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ps183cbf2c.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2571e2a5.jpg
Got the 18"s in today and damn, they're huge. Was rubbing the wood on the top inside of the fender. There's no way to move the fender or move the wood out because it'd b into the boat. Not seeing a way to make these work unless I could get different leave springs or something. Any suggestions?

bryce2320 03-22-2013 7:00 PM

Yea, Im missing a stud on the hub because it snapped off loosening the lugs. Punched it out and got another one :mad:

wakebordr11 03-22-2013 7:10 PM

Relocate the fenders... Trim them, offset them, whatever. I wouldnt raise my trailer higher to increase the tipping moment.. you're a welder/fabricator.. figure it out . Anything to look cool I suppose

bryce2320 03-22-2013 7:31 PM

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ED8262D26A.jpg

bryce2320 03-22-2013 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1812965)
Relocate the fenders... Trim them, offset them, whatever. I wouldnt raise my trailer higher to increase the tipping moment.. you're a welder/fabricator.. figure it out . Anything to look cool I suppose

Good info :rolleyes::banghead:

bryce2320 03-22-2013 7:37 PM

raising the bunks and pretty much modifying the whole trailer is the only way I see to get them on there. I may be upgrading boats after summer so maybe Ill hang on to them and put them on that trailer.......

wakebordr11 03-23-2013 3:48 PM

Okay trim the wood, its rotten anyways! What the F. There are multiple ways to get those rims to fit, change the spring perches so they are longer, get different leaf springs, cut the wood out, move the fenders and modify the wood. Put spacers on the rims to get them off the wood.

You are a WELDER, which means you should have the means and know-how to modify METAL. And then complete your task because you can weld it all up. DUHHH

Me, I would've measured so I knew what rims I was buying and offset, tires etc would FIT said trailer... Actually, I would just leave it as it is... It's a trailer, its job is to hold the boat. It doesn't need 18s.

How was that for good info?

tigeidaho 03-23-2013 3:55 PM

Bryce, ya miss TO yet???? :D

bryce2320 03-23-2013 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1813103)
Okay trim the wood, its rotten anyways! What the F. There are multiple ways to get those rims to fit, change the spring perches so they are longer, get different leaf springs, cut the wood out, move the fenders and modify the wood. Put spacers on the rims to get them off the wood.

You are a WELDER, which means you should have the means and know-how to modify METAL. And then complete your task because you can weld it all up. DUHHH

Me, I would've measured so I knew what rims I was buying and offset, tires etc would FIT said trailer... Actually, I would just leave it as it is... It's a trailer, its job is to hold the boat. It doesn't need 18s.

How was that for good info?

****ty. I weld industrial process piping, so I think if moving the fenders would work, I would have already done it. I think I mentioned different leave springs from the start genius. Trimming the rotten wood wont do any good. Their carpeted and keep the boat from getting scratched up. Move the fenders to where? up so the boat sits on them? :banghead::banghead:

Looks like I'll be keeping the stock wheels on there til I find some different leaf springs. Or throw the wheels on the next boat I get. I couldnt pass them up for the price I got them.

bryce2320 03-23-2013 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigeidaho (Post 1813106)
Bryce, ya miss TO yet???? :D

Uhhhhhh, YES!!!!!!!!!:p:D

bryce2320 03-23-2013 4:15 PM

Delta Force is a Tige Owner tho too:eek: Maybe if mine had a single axle trailer like his, I would have figured it out by now :p

Seriously tho, I posted up to see if blocking the leaf springs or getting different ones would be a practical and safe way to do it. I learned definitely not to block them, so maybe I can look into some different ones to get some space in there so it wont rub.

tigeidaho 03-23-2013 4:33 PM

You know you want a v drive. Just hang on to those bad boys and wait till you get a new boat. You got them for a good price and can probably afford to sit on them for a season.

bryce2320 03-23-2013 5:00 PM

Yea, thats the plan. Just thought I could utilize them on this one but its not to big of deal. I mean the trailers just for towing the boat, not to look cool :rolleyes::p :D

Houstonshark 03-23-2013 6:07 PM

Will the wheels still rub if you just space them out?

bryce2320 03-23-2013 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houstonshark (Post 1813141)
Will the wheels still rub if you just space them out?

They went on the studs, but it was a good 1" from being snug to the hub. So it'd need a good 1" spacer just not to rub, not counting bumps and stuff. It may b worth a shot tho. I can cut the lip off of the fenders that rolls over on the out side with a mitabo and tiger paw it smooth and no one would ever notice, so that wouldnt b a problem at all. I may need like a 5x4.5 adapter with other stud bolts coming off of it. Or punch the old studs out and get longer ones.........

chpthril 03-23-2013 7:01 PM

Spacers will multiply the torque placed on the studs as well as put the non-adjustable camber out of spec, resulting in excessive tire wear.

bryce2320 03-23-2013 7:03 PM

Thats what I was afraid of......

Houstonshark 03-23-2013 7:46 PM

Yeah, I agree with Chp. 1" is way too much. If it were barely rubbing, you could run down to Autozone or O'Reilly and grab some 1/4" or 3/8" universal spacers and try them out.

Why don't you just remove the fenders completely and then check to see exactly how much clearance you need?

Maybe I missed it but how thick is the wood? I would mount the wheels and take a marker and mark where they are rubbing or just roll the trailer a couple feet and let the tires mark the wood. Then take a grinder and start massaging the wood in the areas that are rubbing.

Houstonshark 03-23-2013 7:49 PM

If the wood is 1.5", I would think you could easily remove .5" - .75" without hurting anything. Add in some wheel spacers (if needed) and you should be set.

cowwboy 03-24-2013 5:04 AM

Get adapters. Quite a few offroading guys I know run them. I used them on my trailer clearing 20's. Make sure and get the good billet aluminun ones.

bryce2320 03-24-2013 6:35 AM

TJ, thats a great idea. I just assumed the wood was 3/4". But if it was indeed thicker, a grinder would easily scale it down, and then a smaller spacer and I'd be good to go. The fenders are bolted and mostly welded on so Im not going to cut them off, since I dont know how long til I upgrade to a vdrive. Taking the wood off tho and seeing just how far the tires stick in, would give me a really good idea on how much spacer and how much to shave off the board.

Cowboy, adapters would work too. I run 2.5's billet aluminums on my duals for 35's and I have had no problems with them eathier. Regardless, I think I will cut the lip off of the fenders so it wont be as noticeable that they stick out so far.

I guess for starters, I need to take the board off the fender on one side and mount the 2 tires. Then from there I can have a better idea which route to go. If its more than a 1/2" spacer, I may just go with a adapter and trim the board if needed. Thanks for the good input guys. Got the wheels turning for me on a couple options, other then different leaf springs. Ill let you know what I come up with.

boardman74 03-24-2013 7:03 AM

Bryce I replaced the inner wood on my old boat trailer. On that style trailer where the inner fender is also the boat guide it's just plywood. Looks like plywood from your pics too. If I recall it was just half inch. When I looked at upgrading to 3/4 inch it would have been pretty tight. Like you said, there's not alot of room in there. I would guess you only have 1/2 or 3/4 at the most. Grinding away layers(ply's) of plywood is really going to affect the strength.

bryce2320 03-24-2013 7:37 AM

Good to know boardman. Yea, its just a plywood. The boat only has about 1 1/2" on each side of clearance to stay off the guide as is, so putting a 1/2 spacer in there would just make it worse. Maybe pulling the plywood guide off and mounting the tires would give me an idea on what size adapter I need.

bryce2320 03-24-2013 7:39 AM

The adapters can be had for $120 online for all 4. Throwing them on there and just cutting that lip off the trailer, if its even needed would probably be the best way to go.

tigeidaho 03-24-2013 7:55 AM

I know there are a ton of jeeps out there running adapters to fit wheel\tire combos. From what I have seen on the jeep forums it seems like most people have pretty good luck with QUALITY adapters. I know SPIDERTRAX is one of the companies most people love. I don't know if they would have something for your application.

h20king 03-24-2013 10:59 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Take the lower inner panel bolts off and shim out the bottom using some longer bolts and some round stock.You should be able to create some clearance by changing the angle of the board if so its a quick fix that worked well for me

bryce2320 03-24-2013 12:35 PM

Awesome Harold. Mine looks like its slanted in more then yours, but maybe I can shim the top a little and the bottom alot to get it to work. Thanks for all the awesome ideas and input.

h20king 03-24-2013 1:02 PM

you should be able to leave the top alone and just shim out the bottom. Worst case you have to cut off the old tabs and weld on some new ones

bryce2320 03-24-2013 1:16 PM

Yea that's no biggie. I will undo the bottom and loosen the tops and see what happens

h20king 03-24-2013 1:20 PM

Yeah should be no problem for a fitter. I to make a living doing process and pressure piping.

bryce2320 03-24-2013 1:42 PM

Hood down, money up! :p:cool: thanks for the idea!

Houstonshark 03-24-2013 2:08 PM

Before you order some nice wheel spacers, I'd go pick up a couple cheap sets from O'Reilly or Autozone to test fit.

tyler97217 03-26-2013 6:27 PM

Just got done doing mine tonight. All I had to do was put a spacer like Harold did (I used a block of wood) and then had to put some spacers where the fender guard attaches to the fender. I just used an extra bolt and washers between them to space it just enough. Turned out great. I would imagine on yours you could even bend your brackets out enough to get enough clearance instead of using spacers.

bryce2320 03-26-2013 8:11 PM

Me tire looks way fatter than your guys'. Is it or just optical illusion? Easter weekend coming up I wont get to mess with it for another week probably:(

Thanks for all the good advice, Im sure I can get something to work one way or another now with all these ideas. Even if I get a little out of the fender guide, then a little out of a 1" adapter or something. Ill post when I get something figured out

bryce2320 03-26-2013 8:14 PM

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...ps67484177.jpg

wakebordr11 03-27-2013 5:29 AM

That tire is huge. Doubt it will fit on the new trailer either. Might be better and easier to just start over and buy the right size? ie narrower rim and tire? Is that tire a similar diameter? What size tires are those and what does everybody else run? Somebody has likely replaced your trailer tires on a similar trailer with larger rims... Just copy them.

cowwboy 03-27-2013 6:29 AM

What size tire is that?

tyler97217 03-27-2013 6:30 AM

My new 18" wheel and tire is that wide for sure and maybe wider. You are correct that Harold's above is not. I will have to get the dimensions of it for you. Regardless, they are totally different trailers, so no guarantees. You really are going to have to test fit it and see where it is rubbing and then we can all help from there. I will try and remember to get the tire size and some pics later tonight....

bryce2320 03-27-2013 3:45 PM

270/45/R20 :eek: They're not even 18's they're 20's:eek: I just assumed they were 18's I guess, because I went back and read the thread where the guy was selling them, and it says 20 inch wheels right in the title. I guess that's a good thing for resell, but that'll make it tougher to get fit on there

tyler97217 03-27-2013 8:30 PM

I know some people that have put 20" wheels under their trailers as well, but that is probably too much rubber to fit. Would need to be lower profile.... Mine are 255x45x18

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psfff373cb.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps1b310d04.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...psd4cf52a7.jpg

cowwboy 03-28-2013 6:22 AM

I run 275 45 20 on mine. I had to lift my fenders and may roll them out a little this summer. I can take more pictures when I get back in town.

bryce2320 03-28-2013 3:01 PM

That'd be awesome Daniel. Thanks

cowwboy 03-30-2013 7:24 PM

Hope some of these helps.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...psdd0d1fb1.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...psa344c5de.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps1e04a78d.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps20127131.jpg

I just had to move the fender up and out.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps36528be5.jpg

I may end up having to move the fenders some more but we will see.

Looking at your set up, I would just cut off the axle perches and make taller ones.
Those fenders look like they have quite a bit of welding done on them.
But that is my lazy mans opinion.

WheelerWake 03-31-2013 4:48 PM

You can add spacers between your axles and springs, I've done it in the past for a different reason, raise the whole trailer so the prop/rudder guard doesn't scrape. Yours is also a "drop axle" - the spindle is not in line with the axle. So, even if you put 2" spacers (way too much) you would still have the same axle/spring geometry as most utility trailers.

You can also run wheel spacers with worry. Your axles a most likely 3500lb capacity each, 7000lb total. Your boat/trailer/equipment probably doesn't approach this, so you can fudge a little and be ok. They also will not change the camber. Camber is the amount the tire leans in or out. The tire will be spaced out the same, top and bottom. The wheel spacers will only change the track.

What would worry the most about your setup is the lack of brakes, but that's just me.

bryce2320 03-31-2013 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelerWake (Post 1814383)
You can add spacers between your axles and springs, I've done it in the past for a different reason, raise the whole trailer so the prop/rudder guard doesn't scrape. Yours is also a "drop axle" - the spindle is not in line with the axle. So, even if you put 2" spacers (way too much) you would still have the same axle/spring geometry as most utility trailers.

You can also run wheel spacers with worry. Your axles a most likely 3500lb capacity each, 7000lb total. Your boat/trailer/equipment probably doesn't approach this, so you can fudge a little and be ok. They also will not change the camber. Camber is the amount the tire leans in or out. The tire will be spaced out the same, top and bottom. The wheel spacers will only change the track.

What would worry the most about your setup is the lack of brakes, but that's just me.

Thanks, that was my first thought, but I thought it might be a little redneck thinking, since the first reply was DO NOT block them. If I block between the axle and spring, to where the nut will cover all the threads on the U Bolt, then I just need to get a small spacer/adapter, or just block the fender guide out a bit to get enough clearance. How much will the trailer bounce going down the road? Will a half inch of clearance in there be enough to have the tires not rub?

WheelerWake 03-31-2013 7:09 PM

You really want a thread or 2 showing on the ubolts when you're all done. You can probably buy some longer ubolts. When I did mine, after removing the 2 ubolts on 1 side, I put a c-clamp on the spring to hold the leaves together. Then removed the tie-bolt the holds that holds the leaves together. I used a longer bolt to attach my spacers to the spring (the head of the bolt also aligns the spring to the axle). Then put the Ubolts back on, and repeat 3 times. I don't remember if I used an allen head bolt or semi-ground the corners off the head of a regular bolt for this longer tie-bolt. The best way to descibe the spring spacers I made were two 1/4" thick, 4" long leafs added to each existing spring.

1/2" horizontal clearance yes, 1/2" vertical no, they will rub. Maybe a combination of spacers on the springs and wheels would be best.

One more thing, the reason trailers are built like this is so you can launch the boat on a ramp that is shallow. I don't have that problem, if you don't, space away...

WheelerWake 03-31-2013 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelerWake (Post 1814383)
You can also run wheel spacers with worry.

I meant to say without worry


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