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-   -   rope length and speed? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797158)

Greg2223 03-04-2013 11:31 PM

rope length and speed?
 
I have been riding for about 2 years now going on 3. I usually ride at 70 feet about 22-23mph depending on the boat of course. I know everybody rides at different lengths and am wondering what you guys ride out? how big of a difference does rope length make?

simplej 03-05-2013 5:33 AM

This is 100% dependent on the boat and your skill set... I like riding slower and shorter. If I can get a clean wake at 22-23, I use it and size the rope up last clean point on the wake. It's more fun to me to go big because you're not going as fast and there is slightly less risk involved, my boat is also small so it churns out its meanest wake in the 22-23 range, vs some other boats that really get mean at 23+ that said on the rzr I run 65 at 22. X25 if slammed 75-80 23 stock 70-75 at 22. Etc etc...

jtiblier123 03-05-2013 5:38 AM

There are multiple posts containing info on this topic.

In my opinion, the average beginner to intermediate tends to learn a little quicker with a shorter rope (65 feet) solely because they don't have to travel very far in order to cross the wake. It allows the rider to focus on line tension and not speed. Line tension gets you air...speed just sets you up for a different approach for certain tricks.

Most advanced riders who ride with weight in the boat ride about 23-25 mph, with a 75-80 foot rope.

I ride at 23.7-24.0 on a 75' rope when I have the ballast completely full. I am not a pro but this seems to be perfect for me. At the same time, when learning something new, I will sometimes drop about 2k in weight, slow the boat down to 22.5, shorten the rope to 70 feet.

wakebordr11 03-05-2013 6:03 AM

Do a search, tons and tons of posts on this subject, some by members who don't frequent these boards anymore. I ride anywhere from 65-77.5' and 22.5-24mph. I don't like riding slower than 22.5, the board has a different feel on edge, I prefer to be going a little quicker and riding higher in the water.

skiboarder 03-05-2013 7:15 AM

James, you explained it very well. The simple equation that I use for myself and I recommend all riders use is ride at a speed that you feel comfortable. A little slow is always better than too fast. Your line length should be such that your weakest trick still goes wake to wake without too much work. A beginner should ride a shorter line and focus on going up. The falls will hurt less and you will learn to "load the line" without a bunch of speed.

I switch my line and speed to suit my mood and conditions all of the time. Behind my solidly weighted (not ridiculous) VLX, I ride 24ish at 80ish. I'll ride an Xstar at 23 and 75 no problem. A lot of advanced riders are scared to drop their line under 80, but I have found that behind some of the wide beam boats the wake just isn't shaped as well far out. Put me on an old SAN 210 and I will ride 85 all day long.

williamburell 03-05-2013 7:54 AM

totally rider/boat dependent. My x9 has a wide wake so I tend to see people shorten up. I ride at 22 but others on my boat ride 19-24

Orange 03-05-2013 11:36 AM

I would also recommend being careful with some of what you will read on this forum regarding speed and rope length. There is a certain machismo about going fast with long ropes as well as bad information out there. Most of what I've read so far is fairly reasonable but I guarantee you will hear or read some bs.

One thing I think everyone would agree with is the faster you go, the less margin for error and the higher the chance of injury. Be careful in increasing your speed. Know your true skill level and why you think you need to go faster. When trying new tricks or working on specific skills, don't be afraid to slow the boat down and even dump ballast to work the kinks out, then ease your way up to your "final" speed.

cwb4me 03-05-2013 12:44 PM

Harley rides a 65 to 68 ft rope in comps. Doesn't hurt his skills!

migs 03-05-2013 1:35 PM

Speed - 1 mph after the wash dissappears.
Rope length - right before the wash starts.

What that actual speed or length is - I could care less.

hawkeye7708 03-05-2013 2:52 PM

It's completely a "feel" and per case kind of thing. Lots of great insight above relative to this topic.... it's a common one. Sometimes I think everybody has elevator speeches ready for some of these repeat topics. My "expert" (bahahahahaha) summary:

1) Ride a speed you're comfortable with. I ride 23. Have ridden 25. Have ridden 21. Riding at 23 consistently gave, what I felt to be, the best feel on the water and the most comfort setting AND holding my edges and popping with good form.

2) Use a rope length you're comfortable with. My rope is usually at about 72 (due to a wrap I added). I found that at 23 mph and around 72 feet, I'm usually in the sweet spot of the wake (on lots of decently weighted boats), able to get lots of hang time and still take my weaker tricks wake to wake consistently.

That all said, sometimes you need to adjust. I know on a "humanly weighted (2000-3000 lb)" Nautique 210 riding 23 mph, I need to go back to closer to 80 feet for a comparable feel and sweet spot. I shorten my rope and slow my speed when it's time to learn things to save my body a bit.

------> Take home message: It's all what you're comfortable with and what allows you to ride the way YOU want to. Everybody rides differently, everybody has different weighting, different water conditions and depth. Ride your way. (Wow... if that last bit wasn't the wake equivalent to a Middle School guidance counselor)

hawkeye7708 03-05-2013 2:56 PM

1 Attachment(s)
As an example, my buddy Bob rides around 65 feet at 21miles per hour. He's a great rider. He'll tell you "that's just where it's at".

Nordicron 03-05-2013 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwb4me (Post 1809898)
Harley rides a 65 to 68 ft rope in comps. Doesn't hurt his skills!

Sorry but that seems pretty hard to believe considering the amount of weight and size of the wakes. The speed these boats need to go to make that monster wake clean has to be pretty fast as well. Especially behind the new star.

simplej 03-05-2013 8:33 PM

Actually they say the g23 makes its best wake at 23.2 or something (said JD Webb to me at the show)

wakebordr11 03-06-2013 6:00 AM

Ron, ever see Harley ride a comp? He's going like 22-23, the wake curls a lot. He goes slower and rides a shorter line to get more tricks in. Wake is bigger at those speeds too.

Simple - I've ridden the G, that is correct. Best wake shape and size is in the 23-23.5 range, even with like 15 ppl in the boat and 3/4 ballast. I had ridden a 230 with an extra 1000-1500 and 11 ppl and the speed was faster. G you can ride more civilized speed. I think I was at 75 feet as well on both setups.

My overall speed is determined by my driver since 3 out of 4 boats I ride behind don't have perfect pass. Its all about sound, feel, and Airguide readout. I let the driver know what to do.

Andrew14 03-06-2013 7:06 AM

I heard from a few of the Nautique Team riders that the G23 even starts to clean up around 19 mph - Murray was riding it at only 23 mph with 1400lbs over stock for the Teaser vids last year.....wake was still super clean. That boat is a freak of nature......

03-07-2013 8:44 AM

Man all y'all talk about cleaning up your wake I have never had a problem with getting a clean wake from 16mph to 24mph I pull my Nephew who is 12 at 16 and a pro rider who shreds with us at 24mph with younger kids I run just factory Ballast then when adults go I have an extra 400 each v locker 1000 Arrow bag under front seat a 300 pound on top of front seat and 1100 bag in the center of boat and I never get a washy wake maybe the auto set wedge that cleans it up

http://youtu.be/4Ec4ICJL-Zg

simplej 03-07-2013 9:32 AM

no you just have a flat hulled malibu...

boardjnky4 03-07-2013 10:34 AM

boy do I love the A22 wake

Nordicron 03-07-2013 11:08 AM

Nice video. What was the speed/line length and weight in that vid?

Is the wake behind a MXz any diff than a A22?

03-07-2013 11:32 AM

That's an 2012 Axis A22 weighted with 2 200 pounds hard takes in back one 500 pound hard take in center then a 400 pound bag in each v locker and a 1000 pound arrow bag under front seat with plug n play and the auto set wedge down with a 70 ft rope speed 23.5

dezul 03-07-2013 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axis22 (Post 1810255)
That's an 2012 Axis A22 weighted with 2 200 pounds hard takes in back one 500 pound hard take in center then a 400 pound bag in each v locker and a 1000 pound arrow bag under front seat with plug n play and the auto set wedge down with a 70 ft rope speed 23.5

I rode behind my buddies Axis A22 with just the wedge down at that rope length and speed and it was effortless getting W2W and I am just a beginner. I couldn't imagine how it would feel actually weighted. Axis will definitely be my next boat in a year or two.

03-07-2013 5:43 PM

Yea I think axis puts out one of the cleanest wakes on the water for half the price of other wake boats you can't go wrong maybe next year or two they will throw the surf gate on it that would be sweet !!!

ferral 03-07-2013 6:33 PM

The Axis hull is not the same as the MXZ but I've been told the wakes are similar. I've never ridden an MXZ myself to compare

johnny_defacto 03-07-2013 9:51 PM

Ridden a new VLX and then my Axis. They are both very similar and definitely "malibu" wakes. I am sure the mxz is a little bit different but still keeps in line with the malibu shape. I plan on riding a 22mxz soon....

RonBurgundy 04-29-2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordicron (Post 1809952)
Sorry but that seems pretty hard to believe considering the amount of weight and size of the wakes. The speed these boats need to go to make that monster wake clean has to be pretty fast as well. Especially behind the new star.

Had to bring this back to second the slow and short pic above. I am starting to go longer/faster, but one of the guys we ride with loves 60-65 ft at 21. hes around 2000lb in the boat and we have a similiar wake and he goes huge. Lands everything out in the flats but thats what he prefers......cuts hard and goes big.

dvsone79 04-29-2013 12:42 PM

75' @ 22.7mph behind my '99 PS 205v (same hull as Xstar) weighted with 2600lbs. 75' @ 23mph behind my buddy's '04 SAN w/ similar weight. His wake has a little more peak to it, and seems wider to me at that length, so the slight bump in speed seems to narrow it up just enough.

Trever 05-07-2016 7:34 PM

h

dezul 05-08-2016 8:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trever (Post 1934849)
h

Axis is my next boat and we love the wake.

supersonicmi 05-09-2016 8:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordicron (Post 1810250)
Nice video. What was the speed/line length and weight in that vid?

Is the wake behind a MXz any diff than a A22?

yes, the wakes are very similar.

skiboarder 05-09-2016 8:45 AM

23 LSV
Wedge in the 2 spot
Factory Ballast + 1500 PNP
400lbs of lead under dash.
75ft @ 22MPH

jarrod 05-09-2016 8:56 AM

Shorter rope = slower speed = a wake that is just as wide as your 75-80' rope set up, but with a bigger wake. I went from 80 feet back to 65-70 and I wish I would have done it sooner. Unless you're just wanting to go further into the flats, or you're a big guy that needs the wake to be harder, there's no other advantage in my opinion. A lot of big name riders are riding short ropes.

skiboarder 05-09-2016 9:35 AM

Last year I was coming off an injury and rode 55ft @ 19mph for most of the summer. I could land almost everything at that set up. Most wakeboarders are riding too fast and too long. When I see someone at 70ft going 23mph and learning 180s I cringe. There is no shame in baby steps it will carry you much further. Save the big falls for later.

jarrod 05-09-2016 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiboarder (Post 1934942)
Last year I was coming off an injury and rode 55ft @ 19mph for most of the summer. I could land almost everything at that set up. Most wakeboarders are riding too fast and too long. When I see someone at 70ft going 23mph and learning 180s I cringe. There is no shame in baby steps it will carry you much further. Save the big falls for later.


Agreed. I know a lot of people that have been riding for 5+ years that still struggle with basic tricks because they insist on riding at 75 feet and 23 mph. 65 feet is where you want to be for the first few years, through your first 3s and couple of inverts.

timelinex 05-10-2016 10:19 AM

I'm having a hard time understanding all this talk about the wake being washed out at slower speeds. Maybe it's because all my experience has been with my 2007 Malibu 23lsv? I usually fill my stock ballasts full and wedge down. I usually ride at 65-70ft at 21mph. My buddy rides at about 22-23 at 70ft.

I'm still a 'beginner' but I've been learning inverts the last few times I've went out. Initially I slowed the speed down to about 17mph and at 65ft the wake is still clean. I have to get down to about 16mph or so before the wake isn't clean. The wake is probably still clean at around 55ft at that speed but by that speed I'm more worried about the fact that I'm barely afloat in the water VS the wake being clean.

I have taken some serious amount of falls practicing back rolls and some of them have really hurt my knees or ankles. I can't imagine learning to do all this at 23mph! It would turn my knees/ankles to straight dust!

biggator 05-11-2016 7:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timelinex (Post 1935023)
I'm having a hard time understanding all this talk about the wake being washed out at slower speeds. Maybe it's because all my experience has been with my 2007 Malibu 23lsv? I usually fill my stock ballasts full and wedge down. I usually ride at 65-70ft at 21mph. My buddy rides at about 22-23 at 70ft.

I'm still a 'beginner' but I've been learning inverts the last few times I've went out. Initially I slowed the speed down to about 17mph and at 65ft the wake is still clean. I have to get down to about 16mph or so before the wake isn't clean. The wake is probably still clean at around 55ft at that speed but by that speed I'm more worried about the fact that I'm barely afloat in the water VS the wake being clean.

I have taken some serious amount of falls practicing back rolls and some of them have really hurt my knees or ankles. I can't imagine learning to do all this at 23mph! It would turn my knees/ankles to straight dust!

That particular hull (I had an 06 23LSV) stays clean to VERY slow speeds.

The 'washing out' is likely because people are running a lot of ballast.. more ballast usually means more speed to clean up.

501s 05-11-2016 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrod (Post 1934935)
Shorter rope = slower speed = a wake that is just as wide as your 75-80' rope set up, but with a bigger wake. I went from 80 feet back to 65-70 and I wish I would have done it sooner. Unless you're just wanting to go further into the flats, or you're a big guy that needs the wake to be harder, there's no other advantage in my opinion. A lot of big name riders are riding short ropes.

This makes me feel better about riding at 65 feet and 22.5MPH. I ride an X30 with a wake that is on the wide side, but is perfect at 65feet between 21-23MPH.


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