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-   -   speaker ???'s (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797094)

sendtobrit 02-26-2013 11:23 AM

speaker ???'s
 
I just purchased a new boat that will be built this spring way excited!! I bought a new MB 24' Tomcat
and the new tower will have holes drilled for speakers up in the corners. I know this has been beat to death but my question is i am leaning towards putting a pair of XM9's powered by a JL HD750/1 and i really like the quick disconnect of the Exile clamps versus the Wetsounds but i am concerned that the XM9's will to bright and that i will lose significant midbass compared to the REV10's.
Am i wrong thinking this way? Since the speakers will be mounted in the corners i don't think brightness will as much of an issue. One more thing is i have a 1000watt RMS sub under the helm
will that make up for the midbass or is that a non-issue? This is my first post so go easy on me thanks guys.

Truekaotik 02-26-2013 11:54 AM

Congrats on your new boat!

No, your not wrong thinking that way, the 10" will give you more mid-bass than the 8".... While a HD750 is good power match for the Rev10 making it smooth and clean across the board, I think it's alot of power for the XM9. Just be careful on tuning and you can sacrifice a little bit of output on the XM9 and add some more low end if you must have the XM9. This is where a local stereo nerd can help you alot in tuning different ways...
The sub should not play mid-bass frequency, So personally I don't think it will help with mid-bass...

david_e_m 02-26-2013 12:27 PM

Brit,
Just so you know and there is no misinformation, here is what the Wetsounds swivel collar will actually do.
Swivel.
Quick disconnect.
Pro style connections similar to a binding post or Speak-on where you get more surface area contact.
A safety fork to keep the speaker from coming completely loose.
Polished stainless steel collars that will not blister or pit.
All these features have been part of the newer Wetsounds collars since the advent of the newer REV series.

The way deep bass propogates and dissipates in an open environment, it will be very hard for the subwoofer to keep pace with an HLCD at wake distance, especially when underway.

David
Earmark Marine

sendtobrit 02-26-2013 1:09 PM

Thanks for the input guys! Do u think I can do enough tuning
With the ws240? Also what do u think about putting a sundown sa-12
In the boat versus a jl audio 13w3?

Truekaotik 02-26-2013 1:31 PM

Really depends on what you want to accomplish? Also the space available under the helm? I am not familiar with MB...
I personally would choose the 13w3 in a 2.6 cuft ported box if it will fit... I like SQ, it's more marine environment geard with its polypropylene cone, ect...
The SA is geared more for SPL with a paper cone.. It beats, don't get me wrong, I just like the construction of the JL.. They will both Hit hard in the proper application...

sendtobrit 02-26-2013 2:26 PM

tuning as far as keeping the hlcd's midbass stronger and the high frequencies a little more tame for the peeps in the boat!

chpthril 02-26-2013 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sendtobrit (Post 1808782)
tuning as far as keeping the hlcd's midbass stronger and the high frequencies a little more tame for the peeps in the boat!

The XM9 is an 8" HLCD, same as the Wet Sounds REV-8. So there will be a noticeable difference between the smaller 8" and larger 10" in terms of mid-bass. This is a surface area thing, not brand. In RE to "brightness", the Rev series have made a significant leap in terms of taming the highs, without sacrificing projection.

Have you had a chance to actually look at the Wet Sounds quick-release clamping system? Stainless steel v's plated metal. Speaker wiring that passes through the clamp without the use of a head-phone jack that only makes a single-point contact for each chnl. A connector that allows for single color or RGB LEDs to be added with all wires still hidden.

BradM07SS 02-26-2013 3:32 PM

The Sundown SA will handle twice the power as a JL 13w3. I went from a 12w3 to SA12. I never looked back. I ran both in a ported enclosure 2.0 tuned 35hz. Ran a kicker 500.1 on the 12w3 and zx1000.1 on the SA12. The JL does have a little better SQ but in an open boat environment it was harder noticeable.

02-26-2013 3:38 PM

I am putting the sundown sa 12 in my boat for the money you save on the sundown you can build a box like I am where the sub is rear facing and front is under dash so should not get wet at all. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/27/a4ysezun.jpg
A ported box makes a diff in a car where the bass is Contained in the car almost like a box in a box where is a boat is open so your bass Escapes no matter what kind of box u put in

sendtobrit 02-26-2013 3:48 PM

Thanks for the explanation Tige Mike on the clamp. Do you have to purchase the speaker sleeves
on the Wetsounds?

sendtobrit 02-26-2013 3:53 PM

Yea i think the SA-12 is a good option for a boat scenario because of the open environment the extra SPL will help imo. Does having the sub facing backwards decrease SPL or SQL?

Truekaotik 02-26-2013 4:17 PM

Putting the same power to each sub, the 13" driver wins on surface area alone. That's apples to apples. They both can handle the same power.
The material used between the two is vastly different as well, the 13 wins in construction..
The price is also different and the SA wins there.
It makes a huge difference running ported to sealed. The analogy above is incorrect. You gain about a 3db difference from sealed to ported ( thats equal to double the amplifier output). Sealed has better SQ control, smaller constraints, has better articulation. Ported you can tune the low frequency and increase output but it is more sensitive.. Now I love sealed but for the bass heads ported is the only way to go in a boat unless your running some serious stuff... You want the sub and port facing toward the driver under the helm for the best projection out the back of the boat... Just my opinion.. Some will concur and prolly add... Some will disagree...

02-26-2013 4:37 PM

Yea my brother in law who owns a car audio shop and has been installing systems in cars for 30 years and in boats for 7 years would tell you different every boat every box and sub are a little diff but he well tell you ported sub facing driver or sealed facing driver, or rear facing ported or sealed same power same sub you can't hardly tell that much of a diff because of your open Environment it does not matter if you use a port to tune sub or not you want tell.

tn_rider 02-26-2013 5:42 PM

I disagree axis22. I have heard a local boat here that had 2 kicker comp cvr 10's under the dash. First box he had was sealed. Had tight punchy bass and could hit some lows. He switched that out for a ported box, pretty much the same box, same power, same wiring. There was a noticeable difference between the two. The ported definately helped them reach down and hit some low notes they wouldnt have hit with the previous box. I'd say they were noticeably louder as well. I'm no stereo guru and I'm not saying you are wrong by any means. But from my experience, there's a difference.

david_e_m 02-26-2013 6:21 PM

Given the right woofer, I like 'air suspension' (sealed) in a vehicle because the early but softer roll-off tends to splice very well with the rising low frequencies in a small cabin...actually called 'cabin effect'. The two curves are almost polar opposites and offset each other. To my ears this generally produces the smoothest, most natural sounding bass response.
If you look at the very upper echelon of free-standing home speakers (ranging from $15K to $175K per pair) they generally use bass-reflex cabinets to augment the low frequency extension. And these are the best sounding speakers in every respect. They certainly are not boomy.
But different people are going to have different experiences based on the quality of execution. Bass-reflex is easier to screw up. And there are many forms of bass-reflex.
Air Suspension (sealed) is going to roll-off higher but more gradually. Ultimately, sealed will extend deeper but at such a reduced output that you are unlikely to hear that deepest range. Sealed generally has improved transient response (attack).
Bass-reflex (ported) will give you an additional 3 dB of output in a conservative and well-damped SQ alignment. You can get more peak output by narrowing the focus. Bass-reflex will generally give you one/third octave more bass extension before reaching the half power point. But when bass-reflex does eventually roll-off it does so at a much steeper rate. Bass-reflex does exhibit lower distortion throught the tuning region with far less excursion to produce the same output.
In a boat, I definitely prefer the extra responsiveness of bass-reflex. Both the woofer and amplifier work less to produce the same output. To me, the amplifier/woofer that operates the most conservatively always sounds the best.

David
Earmark Marine

02-27-2013 4:17 AM

David that make sense right there well explained I am no expert at all I just know that my brother in law can build one hell of a box and he recommended that kind of box for the sa 12 because it would be more protected and last longer in the boat it still Jams but I will tell you I have two subs in my boat one 12" sundown in front of driver and one 10" jl marine sub in back under the seat the Jl was a freebe he got from jl since his shop mainly sell jl

sendtobrit 02-27-2013 6:52 AM

If it's not humid where i live do you think the SA-12 will last longer in an open environment?

02-27-2013 7:14 AM

My brother in law got me sa 12 at dealer cost for $120 and said he could send it back to get it re-coned for price of shipping only I figured I could not go wrong at that price

david_e_m 02-27-2013 7:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sendtobrit (Post 1808876)
If it's not humid where i live do you think the SA-12 will last longer in an open environment?

Under cover with a little water in the bilge on a hot day? What do you think?

BradM07SS 02-27-2013 11:31 AM

I've run my SA12's for 3 plus year with no problems at all,. They've been rained on many times. I live in Alabama so it's pretty humid at times. Just be sure to run at least 750-1000 watt rms on the SA12 thats is where the sweet spot is.

sendtobrit 02-28-2013 10:42 PM

Yes i plan on running an Arc Audio ks1000 to the SA-12!

03-02-2013 9:08 AM

In my opinion great choice you will be very happy you will cause ripples across the water sitting still on a glassy day !!!


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