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-   -   Changing oil at 50 hours excessive? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797014)

ryanw209 02-20-2013 10:36 AM

Changing oil at 50 hours excessive?
 
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on when to change your oil? I heard PCM just put out a memo saying to change your oil at 30 hours now instead of 50. I've always heard to change it by 50 so my buddy and I thought we'd see how much truth was to this. He has a 2012 MB with a PCM(I'm pretty sure) and I have a 2006 Sanger with the black scorpion. We both run about 3000 lbs ballast in our boats. He sent in a sample from his last oil change after 50 hours and the results came back totally fine. They said try 75 hours next time. I sent mine in with 60 hours on the oil and they told me try 80 next time because the oil was still looking great. We both were using Delo 15-40 oil.

Now will I wait until 80 hours to change my oil....probably not, but it's good to know I don't need to be worried about going over the 50 hour mark if I am close, and have a long camping trip coming up.

Andrew14 02-20-2013 12:48 PM

I have had two boats (2000 MC X-5 and recently, a 2008 SANTE 210 with the 343 Excal) - I've always changed my oil/filter every 50 hours, engine impeller every 50 hours and transmission fluid every 100 hours. Maybe a bit excessive, but I think with how expensive these boats have become, its a small price to pay for piece of mind (oil for our boats isn't nearly as expensive as some of the synthetic oils for cars these days - I'm paying almost $10 a quart for Mobil 1 for two of our cars....although I'm sure many peeps are running fully synthetic in their boats too - I've always used Shell Rotella). PCM filter is pretty cheap too. Way I look at it is 50 hours on a boat is about the equivalent to 5000 miles on a car - and we work our boats hard with how much ballast most people are running these days. Just my $0.02.

skiboarder 02-20-2013 1:08 PM

50 hrs is a lot. I do every 100, but we run about 150+hrs a year. I would change the oil at least 1 time a year even if it is not at 100hrs.

My local shop recommends every 20hrs! That would be like every other week for us in the summer.

cjh1669 02-20-2013 2:13 PM

I run about 150 hours a year and it actually works out to just over every 50 hours that it gets changed with it being changed when winterized and unwinterized, then changed again at the 100 hour service mid summer

rallyart 02-20-2013 3:40 PM

Mercruiser recommends every 100 yours or yearly, after the first change. 20 or 30 hours are numbers for the guy selling oil and not reality.
You need to change the oil more often if you are in a very dusty operating environment. (usually not where you operate a boat) or if you are running very high temperatures. (over 200°F so not a problem on a 160° thermostat boat)
When conventional oil is above 220 it starts to break down
I change mine at about 100 hours or end of season on my 2006 Scorpion motor. It gets used a lot for two months and then sits

There is no problem to the engine if you change the oil at 50 hours. It just won't help much.

nitrousbird 02-20-2013 3:52 PM

Indmar calls for 50 hours. They are all using the same GM longblocks with different crap slapped on them, so the oil change intervals should be the same among all brands. 50 hours or once a season (whichever comes first) seems to be the standard.

CarZin 02-20-2013 6:08 PM

Anything less than 50 hours seems pretty silly to me. When I had my airplane I did changes about every 100 hours and didn't rebuild until 2300 hours (and the engine was still running fine at 2300). 50 hours would be the absolute minimum for me. But on a new boat, I'll likely change 2-3 times in the first 100 just to make sure the filter isn't getting clogged up with new engine filings.

get_sum 02-20-2013 6:53 PM

I usually split it up.... Oil and filter around 4th of July along with impeller inspection and full detail. Then same thing at the end of season during winterization except I obviously leave the impeller out and I also change out v-drive and tranny fluids.

polarbill 02-20-2013 7:05 PM

Delo 15-40 seems to be a quality oil. I have a fleet customer that has delivery trucks that are all chevy 5.7L blocks as well as having some bigger trucks running CAT and Cummins engines. They use Delo 15-40 in all of it. I am not sure if it is 15w40 but my dad and most of his yacht club buddies run delo 40 in their boats. A lot of the boats have CAT 3208's.

If the oil samples came back good then why waste the oil and filter. You are just spending money needlessly at that point. Try it 100 hours and see what happens. with the oil sample.

durty_curt 02-20-2013 9:41 PM

Who do you send your oil to for testing? I'm curious as i have never done this.

ryanw209 02-20-2013 9:54 PM

blackstone labs
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

I did the standard test($25) plus the TBN($10)

jtiblier123 02-21-2013 3:53 AM

I use Shell Rotella on my Indmar MCX ( GM 350 block) (both prostar(RTP1) and X Star(MCX) . I can get 100 hours on the prostar because she runs up and down the lake at high speeds with no weight. We don't even fill the gas tank more than half so that we can keep the wake small.

In the X-Star, I change every 75. I also run about 4k ballast so I need to change more frequently. I can get close to 100 if there is not much weight. (Teaching beginners.)

Every 50 hours is way too much unless you wake surf all the time. If that were the case I would want my engine looked at every 50 hours anyway.

dezul 02-21-2013 4:29 AM

Everywhere I have read says every 100 hours or at least once a season.

hatepain 02-21-2013 8:11 AM

I run synthetic and change every 100 or annually which is usually about the same so at the end of the season for me. I also use synthetic in my trans

brycejb328 02-21-2013 9:30 AM

This

http://www.belray.com/powersports/products/marine

And pull up your engine make using this for capacities and oem change intervals

http://www.belray.com/lubricant_advisor

Thrall 02-25-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiboarder (Post 1807700)

My local shop recommends every 20hrs! That would be like every other week for us in the summer.

Wonder how many suckers they get in for $150 oil changes at 20hr intervals?
That's just ridiculous. It's not a 450 race bike!

Thrall 02-25-2013 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjh1669 (Post 1807717)
I run about 150 hours a year and it actually works out to just over every 50 hours that it gets changed with it being changed when winterized and unwinterized, then changed again at the 100 hour service mid summer

Why do you change out fresh unused oil after the off season?

boardman74 02-25-2013 1:38 PM

^^ Thought the same thing? Special storage oil???

OldDad 02-26-2013 4:59 AM

20hrs is crazy. The past two seasons we have put about 66hrs a year on the boat. They change the oil at the end of the season when I take it in for winterization.

DatTexasBoy 02-26-2013 12:00 PM

I run Mobil Delvac 1300 Super. Great oil. I change it every 50hrs. Not for the oil but you need the filter changed at these intervals. This is why I do not agree with the whole synthetic oil pitch. The oil will outlast your filtration system.

cadunkle 02-26-2013 6:32 PM

I change at 50 hours usually, and typically at end of season unless oil has low hours on it. Oil comes out looking like new. I wouldn't change it any less, and I've gone as much as about 75 hours (if it looks like it'll be a shorter season) before and it comes out looking practically new. I wouldn't change it any more frequently than 50 hours. 20 hours is nuts, that's like 2-3 times out for me which could be every 1-2 weeks if the weather is cooperating.

Oil is getting pretty expensive. Just spent almost $60 for oil and filter to change the truck. Granted I got 10 quarts (2 5 quart jugs) and it takes 7.5, but still that's a lot even with a little extra for next time. If you change it every 20 hrs instead of 50-100 as the general consensus seems to be, you'd be wasting a tremendous amount of money. It only costs a few hundred bucks to freshen up an engine. Even if changing at 50-100 shortened the life compared to every 20 you'd still be wasting money compared to freshening it up a little sooner.

h20king 02-26-2013 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman74 (Post 1808595)
^^ Thought the same thing? Special storage oil???

when you store your boat after fogging the engine carbon breaks down and contaminates the oil. I do the same fresh oil with winterization then change at summer service then one more change mid season

alexair 02-27-2013 1:04 PM

^^ Carbon in fog oil have very small volume. (Not all but part of it will go out thru exhaust and another part will caught by oil filter). Did you see fast darkened oil after winter? I no. Maybe have I no enough carbon in my motor with carb?
Burning and as due oxidation of oil have place during motor work and this process going faster with high RPM. RPM is main problem for oil - heat on the surface of pistons have no enough time to go out thru wall of cylinders. If you run on mid range RPM so your oil have no stress and will work for a long time (with good fuel\spark systems ofcourse).

boardman74 02-27-2013 1:39 PM

So let me get this right, you change your oil in the fall when you winterize as you should. When oil runs it get acids as well as other things you don't want sitting in there all winter.

Then when you start up in the spring you just warm the engine up then dump the 0 hour oil you just put in last fall? Not sure what "summerizing" you are talking about. All I have to do is put the battery back in the boat. I know some leave their block plugs put. Who sold you on the double oil change bit with the carbon break down? Unless you need a rebuild and stuff is leaking past your rings, little to none of that fogging oil should ever get past the piston rings. When you start it up it burns off and leaves via the exhaust. Thats why it smokes like a mosquito fogger. Carbon is a product of combustion, I have never heard or read fogging oil makes that any worse or better. The small amount you put in the cylinders once a year doesn't change anything. IMO your flushing money down the drain.

If you believe the carbon fogging oil bit you better start changing your oil every time you run the engine because there will be carbon and it will contaminate your oil.

boardman74 02-27-2013 2:40 PM

Are people really taking their boats in to the dealer in the fall to be "winterized", then back in the spring to be "summarized"?? My guess if you are, you are also opting for the 20 hour oil changes!!

I have factory maintenance for the first 3 years. Since PCM is saying every 30 hours, the dealer is going to pay for that right? I called my dealer and they don't know anything about that 30 hour memo from PCM.

redsupralaunch 03-01-2013 7:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Indmar is saying the same thing (30-35 hour) on heavy ballast boats Service bulliten 3/22/12.

As you can see the horsepower required for wakeboarding and surfing is infinitely higher in comparison to a car or even in normal boating operation. With our LSA test engine loaded we see that wakeboarding requires nearly 450 horsepower at 23 mph and surfing requires nearly 380 horsepower to push out 11 mph while the car requires a mere 75 horsepower to achieve 80+ mph.
During our *480 hour durability test we noticed that when engines under normal load (no ballast) reached 30-35 hours between oil changes they experienced greater oil consumption due to the breakdown of oil viscosity. Oil was changed every 50 hours per the owner’s manual and this was the findings and our collective takeaway:

*Engine also had appropriate break-in hours

After 30 hours – ˝ qt. loss
35-38 hours -1 qt. loss
40-45 hours – 1.5 qt. loss

*Note With ballast added, the oil consumption could increase from the values listed above.

Oil viscosity breaks down much quicker in engines operating under greater loads, the most extreme during wakeboarding loads and speeds. With this information we are recommending that your service techs inform your customers that if they are operating their boats under these typical loads for wake sports they should change their oil every 30-35 hours. This will help reduce oil viscosity breakdown, increase engine life and minimize their concerns and experiences related to oil consumption. Boats that are predominantly used in normal boating or skiing conditions can maintain their 50 hour oil change regimen per the owner’s manual.

We hope that you found this research helpful and you continue to feel confident that Indmar will go the extra mile in maintaining that unique customer care and distinct customer service advantage. As always, we encourage any feedback to make us all stronger.

Team Indmar

kamighazi 03-01-2013 7:52 AM

^ interesting... but, "450 horsepower at 23 mph" i dont get it. No way. were they maxing out a 450hp motor or something, thats like 5000lbs

rallyart 03-01-2013 7:57 AM

^^That chart would indicate the load on the 550 hp supercharged engine and the load on the boat for wakeboarding ballast as indicated would put the max speed around 35 with that load, with the 550 hp engine. Full out maximum competition setup. Frankly that is a bit more load than most people regularly put on their small block. If that is your loading then an oil test is a great idea.

boardman74 03-01-2013 8:44 AM

That test is realistic for about 2% of users. The rest of us will be good changing at 50. Unless you fog...then throw away the next oil change.

scottb7 03-01-2013 7:14 PM

I am going out on a limb here and going to be a prick. Anyone that changes out oil with 0 hours on it is a nut with more money than brains. And if you are paying someone else to change it, i would put dollars to donuts they ain't changing it.

rdlangston13 03-01-2013 8:33 PM

So my Moomba LSV has the 325 hp Indmar and we wake board at 22 mph, crazy to think that extra 1 mph requires an additional 125 hp!

And I usually rack up about 100 hours a season so I change it at then end of June and again when I winterize. That is also running AmzOil full synthetic 15w-40

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