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-   -   Integrity of Prominent WW'er - Selling Items (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=796947)

HSE 02-13-2013 6:53 PM

Integrity of Prominent WW'er - Selling Items
 
I purchased some used gear from a fellow WW'er and exchanged texts back and forth discussing the condition etc of the three items I was interested in. Two were described as fully functional and the remaining needed minor repair. I sent payment of $450 via PayPal and the items were shipped once the transaction cleared. Items were $400 so the $50 was for fees and shipping. When the package arrived the three items of interest along with some miscellaneous gear which was thrown in at his discretion, none of which I needed. When I inspected the items of interest I was disappointed in the fact that two needed repair. I sent a text regarding this and the response was "Crap! Sorry man... I thought the other was fine." The third one was used at a later date weather permitting and it also had issues making it not practical to use without repair. I sent a text regarding my frustration and disappointment and his response was "Sorry, but I swear the last time I used it, it was perfect... it's been sitting in storage that last few months." I expressed my concerns, asked about returning the items, refunding half to cover repairs etc. and last response received was "Sorry no. It was in excellent condition when I used it last... and it was only used a handful of times."

I am not one to slander someones integrity and reputation so at this point I've kept it anonymous but I am also wondering what others would do in this situation? I bought these as extras to have on the boat for other riders and a back up to an old one I have. At this point it has been a waste of money. I know having owned my own business and selling products in this industry I always did my best to have a happy customer.

501s 02-13-2013 7:10 PM

If you are talking about Dry Suits, then thats a tough one. I would never buy a dry suit used and expect it to be perfect. Either buy new or plan to have to replace the seals on a used one.

cwb4me 02-14-2013 4:08 AM

I would guess Audio Equipment.Which is always risky when buying used.Blow the whistle,if it still works!

williamburell 02-14-2013 6:21 AM

pics or it didn't happen. But seriously point of this thread? No one even knows what the product is

mattgettel 02-14-2013 6:27 AM

I'm going with the dry suit guess too. While I wouldn't buy one used and expect perfection, I do expect people to be honest. If he said it was good to go I would expect it to be truly good to go. I would leave this on here for a few days then post the detail. If there is someone on here selling lies I damn sure don't want to buy any.

williamburell 02-14-2013 6:30 AM

^ditto. I've been lucky and everyone I've dealt with has been straight up. I say air it out and help protect others.

HSE 02-14-2013 8:07 AM

It was three O'Neill dry suits, two had visibly torn seals, one on the wrist and one on the ankle 2-3" long tears. The third has leaks in the seam in the crotch, when I finished my ride I was drenched from the waist down.

skiboarder 02-14-2013 8:36 AM

I took my drysuit out of the closet after being stored indoors all year a few weeks ago. It had been used 3 times total and a wrist seal was nasty and gooy. If I had sold you mine, I would have said the same thing.

Years ago I bought a used drysuit online...not a great used item in general. I would never do it again, but I wouldn't blame the seller.

load 02-14-2013 8:37 AM

Dispute it with Paypal, take photos to back it up and use the email, and texts too.

grant_west 02-14-2013 9:05 AM

Bottom line. If your selling somting and you say it works, It better work when it arrives at that persons door or IMO you should get your money back.
IF the person is selling a Item and he is selling it in a Un knowen condition or At your own risk condition then he is sort of off the hook or at his disecretion weather to retun it or not.

Kind of like e-bay, NEW= Like new. Used= Works but not new. Unknown=May or may not work bets to be used for parts.

Jim do you have a copy of the add you can post? It would be good to know how the items were advertised.

simplej 02-14-2013 9:17 AM

im almost positive i found the ad. but thats for the OP to post

501s 02-14-2013 9:31 AM

I was going to buy those dry suits! Glad I didn't......

adam_balon 02-14-2013 9:39 AM

agreed you deserve your $$$$ back. has he responded since you posted in the forum?paypal will 100% side with you on this as long as you have documentation regarding all conversation and the transaction.

if they needed repair, they should have been sold as "drysuits needing repair"

deltarida 02-26-2013 8:09 AM

Use Paypal to your advantage. If this person selling these items has any class they should return all your $$$, no questions asked.

93rx7 03-04-2013 10:37 AM

open up a paypal dispute. if the seller misrepresented the items you should get your money back.

HSE 03-04-2013 7:30 PM

I tried to do a dispute with PayPal, but it has been over 45 days since the transaction so no luck there... I bought it before Christmas and didn't ride them until last month. I will contact him one more time letting him know I will disclose all messages info etc on WW and see if he responds. Thanks for the support in that I am not over reacting..

HSE 03-07-2013 2:43 PM

14 Attachment(s)
Here's some pics of the three suits with issues, torn wrist seal on one, torn ankle seal on the next, and stains where leaking on crotch on the newest with intact seals.
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/attac...1&d=1362695938

Joe has not responded so beware of buying from him!

spencercoon 03-07-2013 9:21 PM

Dang Joe, is it really worth the $450.00???

ottog1979 03-08-2013 8:51 AM

Excellent condition when "I used last" vs. excellent condition when shipped are two different things.

bcrider 03-08-2013 8:53 AM

Last year I put my drysuit away for the year with a ripped neck seal that I blew out. If I was to sell it this year without having looked at it I would have gone to a person with 2 bad wrists that dried out over the winter as well.....not that it would have happened. Not sure how you would not give them a once over before sending them out. I can see if a seal dried but a seam doesn't just let go from sitting around. I have now decided for the couple times a year I use mine in the beginning of the season that they are the biggest PITA! It doesn't help that mine gets shared a lot as well. I would agree that you should be getting your money back and return all the gear or at least some of it back to cover your repairs.

stuey 03-08-2013 8:55 AM

Wow, brutal. Did you happen to use your credit card to pay through Paypal? If so you can call your credit card company directly, usually they have a longer dispute period.

The bright side is seals can be replaced and fixed.. downside is that costs money. I would think a full refund is in order, but at the very least, pay the repair bill

humboldt9 03-08-2013 9:28 AM

Classic case of caveat emptor. Man that sucks! Just curious I don't have experience with dry suits are those issues fixable and how much? If he wasn't willing to even respond to half a refund I doubt there'll be a check in the mail anytime soon to help with the cost of fixing. Sorry for the loss...

bcrider 03-08-2013 9:53 AM

Getting mine done at this moment:

Neck seal Latex: $67
or
Neck seak Neoprene: $ 90
Wrist seal latex: $40 ( pair)
plus shipping

ottog1979 03-08-2013 11:07 AM

Want some help with this Joe? I mean this earnestly. It's really not hard:

"I screwed up (and for a while it was hard to admit that). The suits really were working great last time I used them. But, I was going fast and didn't really check them well before shipping them out. I've been really busy of late, so sorry for my lack of response. How about you either get the two suits fixed and I'll send you the amount or send the whole bunch back and I'll return the $450. Let me know what you want to do."

That's it. Doesn't even have to be done publicly on WW. Just make it right or do your best to make it right and almost everyone/anyone is willing to forgive. Be a Tyler Hamilton, not a Lance Armstrong. Again, I'm being completely sincere.

alanp 03-08-2013 8:51 PM

good response andy. further jim is about the nicest dude youre gonna meet.

wakerider111 03-09-2013 10:16 AM

I haven't seen Joe Umali on these forums for a while and was thinking about that fact about a few months ago. He used to be spotted every day pretty much, but it seems like that changed about 1-2 years ago.... I think it kinda correlated with the time of his beloved favorite wakeboard, the LF Shane going to a flex core....

Haha, could't help the tease, Joe

"prominent WW'er.. ha, almost like WW legend
wonder if Joe Umali still has the most posts on WW?

anyway, Joe had this sort of pride (for a lack of a better word) about him that i think you either hated or loved, and maybe depending on the moment. The guy sure knew his stuff and had a way with words and always called it as he saw it (including calling me out on on a thing or two i deserved), but that same sort of pride made admitting being wrong a rare occurrence.

wakerider111 03-09-2013 10:23 AM

I was just remembering this old thread. Joe is about the only WW'er to get a thread
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543390

ottog1979 03-09-2013 10:36 AM

The profile Personal Quotes are sort of ironic.

sinkoumn 03-09-2013 2:07 PM

Quit picking on Umali u guys....

Seriously though, that is a complete bulls%$t dick move and you should absolutely be refunded your money. If not, I REALLY hope Joe needed that money; f'ing ponderous

bftskir 03-10-2013 11:39 AM

Sounds like Joe sold some rotten drysuits and made them sound a little better than they were.

Let's just be clear about drysuits.
If you buy one that has been used and is more than 12 months old EXPECT it to LEAK. Expect to replace ALL seals.
Seals age quickly, you can have an unused drysuit that has been stored and the seals will be shot, rotted, cracking, ready to tear.
You can use seal saver to condition them to make them last. I have a Barefoot International drysuit that I used more than 200+ times over a 10 year period...one of the seals finally tore because I let someone else use it who did not know how to carefully remove the seals. I just got a new one.

These suits do not last forever. BI has the thickest, toughest, seals. The seams will leak, the material will get pin holes, water gets in.

Dry suits are really misnamed, they should be called Mostly-Dry Suits because that's the reality.

I hope Joe does the right thing and refunds your money.


Oh and just because you were wet at the crotch does not mean that's necessarily where the water came in...

spencercoon 03-10-2013 5:15 PM

[QUOTE=Oh and just because you were wet at the crotch does not mean that's necessarily where the water came in...[/QUOTE]

True statement. ;)

will5150 03-11-2013 8:34 AM

Where's Joe on this? Can't believe he's letting this happen on WW. He's been on this site for a LONG TIME. Your word is worth more than $450 dude- i hope you do the right thing.

buffalow 03-11-2013 9:16 AM

Joe spends a ton of time of FB, so we may all have to turn there to respond. I am really surprised at the lack of responsibility on his part. i have always held Joe in a high regard.

srock 03-11-2013 10:42 AM

Lets form a posse boys we ride out in the morning! I think a refund is due and at a min he should refund the cost of repairs.

ttrigo 03-11-2013 7:19 PM

I feel like if this was a less prominent member, we would have had a hundred posts by now.

wakebordr11 03-11-2013 7:25 PM

Silence is deafening train. If Joe wasn't wrong his boys would be defending him... Instead... Silence... Extreme silence

lfadam 03-11-2013 7:31 PM

I'm surprised how often you guys are having seal ripping problems. I had an O'Neill drysuit before my current one and it had neoprene seals. I don't see how those would rip easily at all, but I hated them. Not tight enough/always leaked (especially on crashes). My new drysuit (well 4 years old now) is a Bare Ultra. It has latex seals and I definitely prefer them. Harder to get on and off but they seal perfectly without being tight/uncomfortable. I can definitely see how they would rip but I put on seal saver like once a year the first two years and haven't had a problem at all with it. 4 years old now. I just store it hanging in my closet. Maybe that's the trick, storing in an outdoor location may lead to temp/humidity change that kills them. Bare Ultra is a great drysuit btw. Never leaked a drop.

pnichols 03-13-2013 1:12 PM

I wonder if his dad still posts on WW. I remember a few years ago Umali Sr posted in a few threads. Maybe he could let Joe Jr know about this thread. :D

seth 03-14-2013 3:32 PM

Maybe Cire will pull his namesake boardshorts!! Does not surprise me, guy always seemed like a punk from his posts on here.

steezyshots 03-14-2013 4:22 PM

Can't say that I am surprised...

bftskir 03-14-2013 4:42 PM

funny thing is a $200 check would have eliminated this.

wakebordr11 03-15-2013 6:14 AM

Maybe this thread title should be updated, or a new thread started.

nuckledragger 03-15-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seth (Post 1811509)
Maybe Cire will pull his namesake boardshorts!! Does not surprise me, guy always seemed like a punk from his posts on here.

We don't know the whole story so we won't comment on that.

Maybe there is some bad JuJu around the namesake and that is why we have some left over. :D There is not a pair in the line for 2013.

john211 03-15-2013 12:42 PM

prominent ^^^

he became prominent, be that as it may, with 12 thousand gems like these.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787054

HSE 03-17-2013 4:46 PM

Thanks for all the comments, Joe did ask for my email a while back 3/8 but no communication since then and no action as of yet. Not sure if he has seen this post, but I would imagine somebody has made him aware of it. Overall just a disappointment..

steezyshots 03-21-2013 1:02 PM

Any word from the con artist?

HSE 03-22-2013 11:25 AM

Haven't heard a thing from Joe since he asked for email address a couple weeks ago. I guess he doesn't value his reputation in the wake community.

adam_balon 03-23-2013 12:17 AM

brutal. why blacklist yourself...... silly joe.

grant_west 03-23-2013 8:27 AM

Lame: I hope you can get your money back. For all these people defending Joe why don't you contact him and see if you can help out. it would be nice if we could all watch out for each other here. Jim is no stranger here and has helped out many people in the wake community. I would hate to think some one like Joe could can burn Jim and not get called on the carpet and made to come correct.

Jim I say you use your connections in the Special Forces community to track him down. It shouldn't be to hard to track him down. Just look for the Asian guy with a camera in one hand and a cigratette in the other with some little dogs running around and you have found your man

ttrigo 04-08-2013 8:42 AM

Still not resolved?

steezyshots 04-08-2013 8:47 AM

Joe has always been a pretty big douche. Bummer you still haven't heard from him

joeshmoe 04-08-2013 12:41 PM

Hey Joe, Karma is a BITCH!, watch out! Don't stand next to Joe for a while.

Bam6961 04-09-2013 9:46 AM

Dude you got a good deal, i dont know why you are complaining, a new suit costs 400+ you got three of them for that much. He told you that two of them are unusable and the one that should be good ended up having a leak. since that leak is on a seam i sure you can just duck tape it. So basically your complaining about 1 drysuit, that was misrepresented. I dont even know joe, but it seems like your making a bigger deal than it is. I guess maybe he should have given you $50 back for the seam, but thats what happens when you buy used.

wakeboardern1 04-09-2013 10:31 AM

"Two were described as fully functional and the remaining needed minor repair."

The items were misrepresented, none of them are fully functional. What story were you reading Bam? Joe never told him that two of them were unuseable, he said they were perfect, and then they weren't. You're on another planet right now.

Bam6961 04-09-2013 12:09 PM

My bad totally read the text wrong, thought it said unusable, Haha must have been on another planet! Still not that bad of a deal though

Bam6961 04-09-2013 12:43 PM

Although he should have given you at least $100-150 back, sorry for calling you out.

solo 04-09-2013 1:26 PM

Not surprised. I wrote Umali off over a year ago. I don't have time for narcissistic people in my life. After 12 years knowing that dude he's only out for himself. I wouldn't count on ever seeing that money again. Typical Joe.

ttrigo 04-09-2013 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo (Post 1815959)
Not surprised. I wrote Umali off over a year ago. I don't have time for narcissistic people in my life. After 12 years knowing that dude he's only out for himself. I wouldn't count on ever seeing that money again. Typical Joe.

Wow. Last person I'd expect to hear that from.

durty_curt 04-09-2013 4:43 PM

I Can't Even Remember The last time I Saw Hahn post on Ww. I Don't Know if You Know But He's Kind Of A Big deal Here

spencercoon 04-09-2013 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durty_curt (Post 1815992)
I Can't Even Remember The last time I Saw Hahn post on Ww. I Don't Know if You Know But He's Kind Of A Big deal Here

Whats with all the random caps?

durty_curt 04-09-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spencercoon (Post 1815998)
Whats with all the random caps?

Ever Since I Got This New Os Update On My Motorola Droid RAZR, Writing Anything Online Blows. For Some Reason I Know Have To Carefully Right My posts And Also It Randomly capitalizes Words. I Went From posting As Fast As I Could text Message, To TextIng As If Im Using A Rotary Phone

solo 04-10-2013 9:28 AM

Kind of a big deal? Are you calling me fat? Lol!

steezyshots 04-11-2013 9:21 AM

No Steven he is saying you have many leather bound books, and your house smells of rich mahogany! LOL

HSE 04-29-2013 1:19 PM

The latest update, still no response from Joe so I decided to send all the suits to Oneill for repair. I have not gotten them back, but once they are all repaired I was thinking on selling a couple to help offset the cost of the whole situation. It anyone is interested, let me know and I can take pics when I get them back. I was thinking $175 each. Dave if this is breaking the selling rules, then sorry about that, just let me know and delete this part of the post.
Thanks,
Jim

steezyshots 04-29-2013 1:21 PM

That sucks, someone needs to give Joe a swift kick in the nuts!

HSE 05-04-2013 8:25 AM

2 Attachment(s)
http://wwhttp://www.wakeworld.com/fo...1&d=1367680743

Here's the two suits that I just got back from O'Neill repair facility, they have had seals replaced as needed and leak tested.

If anyone is interested in either or both let me know..

Thanks,
Jim

ottog1979 05-04-2013 9:07 AM

Hmmm... Size again? I'm 5'10", 160lbs.

HSE 05-04-2013 9:24 AM

The gray/black is a M and the all black is a S. I think the M would be a good fit..

HSE 05-13-2013 2:36 PM

The medium suit is sold and the all black small is still available for $175, PM me if interested.
Thanks,
Jim

ottog1979 05-13-2013 2:41 PM

Thanks Jim! :)

buffalow 05-13-2013 6:56 PM

Can I squeeze into a small :)

buffalow 05-13-2013 6:57 PM

Can you say ... Big guy in a little dry suit...Rip

breakz77 05-14-2013 7:58 AM

Buffalow that would almost be worth buying it to see :)

Fiveflat 05-14-2013 8:35 AM

Wow Jim tough story. I went through something similar. Not unusable like this, but it was a new item than came entirely wrong... almost 12 months AFTER I paid for it via paypal. A new item was sent out to me again, almost 3 months later and still ENTIRELY wrong. I ended up getting blocked by the seller and no communication from them since.

ttrigo 05-14-2013 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiveflat (Post 1822134)
Wow Jim tough story. I went through something similar. Not unusable like this, but it was a new item than came entirely wrong... almost 12 months AFTER I paid for it via paypal. A new item was sent out to me again, almost 3 months later and still ENTIRELY wrong. I ended up getting blocked by the seller and no communication from them since.

On this site, or something unrelated? PayPal should have your back. Could be too late, but they are pretty good about protecting buyers and sellers.

Fiveflat 05-14-2013 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttrigo (Post 1822151)
On this site, or something unrelated? PayPal should have your back. Could be too late, but they are pretty good about protecting buyers and sellers.

Not a seller on WW technically... just similar that paypal couldn't help because I worried too much about being a good customer and waited 12 months to start getting upset over it.

HSE 06-01-2013 11:37 PM

Wow, just had to bump it up, it's almost at 9000 reads. Too bad Joe is such a douche.. Oh well, summer is here and no dry suit needed now ;-) Small one is still available if anyone is interested..


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