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-   -   Tige 21v? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=796282)

jronix 11-29-2012 2:31 PM

Tige 21v?
 
I'm currently looking for my first boat and came across a 2001 tige 21v rideers edition for 20,900. Price is about right for me just would like to know if there is anything about the boat that is a big problem as far as quality of wake. Looking to do surfing and wakeboarding, I've heard tiges are great for surfing but never been behind one. Also I live in Michigan and the boat is in North Carolina so I may need to reach out to some of you folks to maybe take a look at it for me. Thanks for any info.

bruizza 11-29-2012 2:43 PM

go over to http://www.tigeowners.com

bruizza 11-29-2012 2:44 PM

ALso a lot of those year Tige's didn't have internal ballast so if it hasn't been added you will need to add it or manually fill sacks.

boardman74 11-29-2012 3:07 PM

The newer Tiges are great for surfing is what you probably heard. Probably not that era of them. Might be OK with some weight, but not going to surf like the new ones. Price seems high to me. I wouldn't drive that far unless it was a smoking deal and that is not. Check out Tige owners site for sure. Older Metcraft towers broke(pipe and welds) and some complained of major quality issues in that age Tige. That was when Tige thought TAPS was the same as ballast so probably won't have any.

boardjnky4 11-29-2012 3:14 PM

The boat at pro marine? I don't know too much about the boat but the dealer is pretty good. I think I briefly met the owner of the boat and he is selling to upgrade to a newer boat. Bucklenation (username) on here can get you more info on it probably. Send him a message.

bryce2320 11-29-2012 3:20 PM

From experience, if the interior hasn't been replaced yet, I'm sure it'll need it. The price may b a little steep unless ballast is plumbed in already and has perfect pass.

wakebordr11 11-29-2012 3:36 PM

I'd steer clear of that era tige. That year still had the spray pockets and it makes a hard bump of a lip on top of the wake which turns into white wash easily. I am told they make mackin surf waves.

I wouldn't pay more than 15-17 for one from that era... Get an 03 22V with no spray pockets, its worlds better. Tige interiors of that era do leave some to be desired - my family has a 99. Its not the quality of the vinyl so much as the stitching patterns and the way they place seams that trap moisture which leads to fatigue and cracking... Solid boat, ours has given us 820 trouble free hours mechanically but interior and wake aren't that great. If Nautique and MC is an A, that era Malibu is a B-B+, Tige... more like C to C-...

jronix 11-29-2012 7:08 PM

Thanks for the input

dirwoody 11-29-2012 7:43 PM

We have a 99, we love the boat, but rarely sac it out as it's mainly the family run around. Throws a sick surf wake with little weight though. Wake does get pretty good with weight, but as said above, can wash if you're not watching closely. Can also tune it with taps. See if they'll let you take it for a test run, but with it being this time of year, it'll be a bit tough

brycejb328 11-29-2012 8:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thats a decent price, depending on condition.

A guy in our crew (hes on WW and will chime in i'm sure) has owned one since brand new and I rode his plenty before I eventually decided on picking up my own. So I ignored all the negative internet banter about the boat. Just like anything on the net, take it with a grain on salt and find out for yourself.

If it has the stock tower, plan on buying a monster tower. The boars racks over-head are stupid and its an ugly tower

I have integrated ballast on mine using reversible jabsco's. Doing integrated ballast on that boat is actually not too bad of a job. I run a 400 v drive sac on each side of the engine and the integrated bow sac (it is a 540 lb bag but it maybe fills to 400-450). So i run 1200 lbs of ballast and i usually ride around 23.7 and have NEVER had a washy wake. I have ran more weight, probably 2100 lbs or so and i do speed it up a little with that and the wake will stay clean.

The surf wake is MACKIN. One of the best I have rode and everyone who rides my boat says it is one of the best waves they have rode.

The faria multi-function gauge is a joke when it comes to reading engine hours. My gauge said something like 280, but when the diagnostic tool was hooked up to the engine it said around 520. So get that checked for sure.

When it all comes down to it, getting a v drive in the low 20's is tough to come by. This is a great option for one of the most spacious v drives of its era.

Let me know if you have any specific questions

brycejb328 11-29-2012 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman74 (Post 1796351)
The newer Tiges are great for surfing is what you probably heard. Probably not that era of them. Might be OK with some weight, but not going to surf like the new ones. Price seems high to me. I wouldn't drive that far unless it was a smoking deal and that is not. Check out Tige owners site for sure. Older Metcraft towers broke(pipe and welds) and some complained of major quality issues in that age Tige. That was when Tige thought TAPS was the same as ballast so probably won't have any.

surf wave is beyond ok... like I mentioned. Everyone who has rode my boat (or will5150) says it is "one of the best they have rode".

If the boat is average in all aspects, thats a decent price. Especially if it has PP, upgraded tower or a GOOD ballast install.

wakebordr11 11-30-2012 2:59 AM

Post some pics of your wakeboard wake... They need bow weight and speed to clean up, weighting yours like a traditional v drive, I just don't believe the weird lip isn't there...
Taps at what?

brycejb328 11-30-2012 5:17 AM

I'm not a 100% sure what the "weird lip" is that you speak of. I dont have any pics of the wake. Keep in mind I am using the integrated bow sac, so that bow weight is at the very very front of the boat. Taps at like 5. Dont really pay much attention as I haven't had problems.

jronix 11-30-2012 5:57 AM

The only other boat I'm finding in my range is a centurion elite v, so I guess I'm trying to see which is a better option.

jeff_mn 11-30-2012 5:59 AM

I've rode both boats mentioned above extensively (Bryce and Wills) and both throw a great intermediate wakeboard wake and intermediate surf wake as well. Great all around boat - they are very roomy and pretty quiet..

The surf wave is good on them - but most of the guys in our crew have never surfed behind an Enzo or new RZ2/4 - so some perceptions are skewed..It's a great, versitile, affordable boat. The things mentioned in this thread pretty much sum it up - interior seeems cracking, ****ty OEM tower, gauges can be wonky..

Like mentioned - hard to get into any v-drive for $20k anymore. You might get a better wakeboard wake from an older x-star or 210 - but you won't get near the surf wake and you'll sacrifice storage, surf wave and most likely pay more for higher hours. All about what's important.

I like these boats a lot.

jeff_mn 11-30-2012 6:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jronix (Post 1796396)
The only other boat I'm finding in my range is a centurion elite v, so I guess I'm trying to see which is a better option.

Depends on the options/condition.

wakeboard wake - tige
surf wave - equal'ish possibly centurion although not the flagship
quality - comparable
space - tige
resale - comparable

Between those two I'd pick what is better optioned, better maintained and the condition. They are similar as good entry level v-drive boats.. I'd go Tige if options/condition/maintenenace was similar.

brycejb328 11-30-2012 6:33 AM

I did have someone surf my rig who had rode an Enzo, no surprise, he said the Enzo was better. But the tige 21v was the second best he had rode. I've never been completely "sacked out" for surfing. The most i've had in my boat for surfing has been right around 2k lbs.

Forgot to mention storage. I can fit a 136cm wakeboard (never tried to put my 144 shane in the locker) in one side and 5'6" hyperlite land lock in the other side. Nice option when you want things out of sight.

jeff_mn 11-30-2012 7:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brycejb328 (Post 1796402)
I did have someone surf my rig who had rode an Enzo, no surprise, he said the Enzo was better. But the tige 21v was the second best he had rode. I've never been completely "sacked out" for surfing. The most i've had in my boat for surfing has been right around 2k lbs.

Forgot to mention storage. I can fit a 136cm wakeboard (never tried to put my 144 shane in the locker) in one side and 5'6" hyperlite land lock in the other side. Nice option when you want things out of sight.

Pleaase dont try to compare your 21v to the best surf waves in the industry. its a nice wave, that it plenty descriptive. there are dozens of better ones.

kthxbye
The Management

brycejb328 11-30-2012 7:54 AM

Just reporting what someone said who had surfed an enzo and they said the enzo was better. Putting into perspective that people still think the 21v wave is nice even after riding an elite wave like the enzo. Sorry boss

matty_gs 11-30-2012 8:02 AM

jronix,

If it is at Promarine, I am only about 5 minutes away from there and I will actually be going to pick up my boat from winterization this afternoon. If it is out, I will take a look at it. If I cant, I can probably swing by one day next week. Just let me know.

Matt

jeff_mn 11-30-2012 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brycejb328 (Post 1796416)
Just reporting what someone said who had surfed an enzo and they said the enzo was better. Putting into perspective that people still think the 21v wave is nice even after riding an elite wave like the enzo. Sorry boss

trolling through - pay no mind. surf wave is legit.

Gotmods 11-30-2012 9:04 AM

Too far away and not enough upgrades for the price. I'm reading new tower, new interior, no ballast, and haven't heard about the stereo. If you do all that you will have a $30k 2001 Tige. Look for some if not all upgrades done for $20k on that era v-drive, no matter what brand. I only watch CL on the left coast and there are way better deals.

will5150 11-30-2012 9:12 AM

Jeff and Bryce already spoke for me :) I have owned mine since new and here's the list of stuff I have fixed
1) Multi-guage- it's a POS. it is covered under a lifetime warranty, but I had mine ripped out and put Perfect Pass in instead.
2) Had Rider's Cruise when I the boat- Like I said PP in place now and put a depth finder in the Rider's Cruise spot.
3) Interior- I redid my seats behind the windshield two years ago- boat looks pretty much new now.
4) steering cable- froze up about 4 years ago and replaced myself- works like a charm now.

I have the original tower and yes it's not very pretty, but it's also in good shape, no stress cracks, etc and i'm not replacing it for looks alone.

the spray pocket thing -in 2001 when Tige was promoting these boats, they were to be an all-around boat and the spray pocket really helped at high speeds for slalom skiing. If they influence the wake much, i can't tell and I certainly wouldn't makethis a huge part of your buying decision.

Wake- the crew alreay stated it all- the wakeboard wake is good, I set the Taps at 5 and run 400's in the back and 600 in the walkway. I have been behind boats with MUCH bigger wakes, but I am pretty happy with the Tige wake. It hasn't impeded my ability to land tricks or the ability of much better riders I have pulled.
Surfing Wake- it's very good. I run 600 in the rear locker +/- a few and 600 in the walk at 11.7 MPH- the wake is solid, long and a lot of fun. I haven't been behind the Enzo.

Mine will most likely be for sale this spring as I want to upgrade ( just cuz i can) - it has nothing to do with performance. I would just like to modernize a bit- new tower ( stated), better stereo, integrated ballast are the main reasons.

Happy shopping.

jronix 11-30-2012 10:10 AM

@ Matt, it is the one at promarine and if you would take a look at it that would be great. The owner is willing to drop price to 19k and I can install the ballast I want for around 1k so it might be worth looking into. It already has pp and wakeplate.

jronix 11-30-2012 10:13 AM

Im think 750s in the rear with 650 bow sac and whatever fits in the ski locker, with that weight I'm hoping the wake will be plenty big for me.

will5150 11-30-2012 12:17 PM

Oh yeah- the wake will be plenty big. I ride at 24-24.5 at 80 feet and the wake is great. I can take rolls out into the flats at that line length. The wake with the weight I use is very solid and sets up nice from about 21.5 all the way up to 25 or more, although we don't ride a lot faster than 24.5.

polarbill 11-30-2012 1:14 PM

I looked into buying one at some point and most the comments seem spot on. The interior wasn't the greatest, tower sucked, no ballast or pp usually, spray pockets cause wash in the wake. All that said from what I learned the wash is mostly cosmetic and unless you are a huge wake snob it won't matter. The best part about the 99-02 era 21V was that it is a super wide and big boat compared to the other boats from that era you will find for the 20k range. You can find 2000ish SAN and xstars for around 20k but they are way smaller inside, have less storage, don't ride as well in rough water and don't surf as well.

Another boat I would look for is a 2000-2003 Moomba Mobius V. Great all around simple boat for around 20k.

williamburell 11-30-2012 2:51 PM

Saw that boat last time I was up there. Boat looked pretty clean outside but didn't get to climb in since it was raining. Know others have offered but I am in that area so pm me if you need it checked out. Can't say enough good about the guys at promarine though

boardman74 11-30-2012 3:20 PM

Took a look online at the boat. It does have the old tower, original gauges, and original interior. Those can all be issues in that boat. The ones I looked at in that era last year all needed those 3 things done if it hadn't been updated.

brycejb328 11-30-2012 3:35 PM

The only gauge thats a real problem with it not workin, is the faria multi function gauge, it has the engine hours. Dont trust the 395 hours in the ad on OIB unless they took that from the ECM.

Looks like you have some options close to you, even if they are a couple grand more. Its worth it to see the boat in person and negotiate from there.

Maybe you should buy mine.... top notch ballast install (new), perfect pass star gazer, brand new head unit and kicker amp / HLCD set-up, did a bunch of maininence items since I owned it, upgraded tower.... I'd buy my boat if I were you

brycejb328 11-30-2012 3:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1796390)
Post some pics of your wakeboard wake... They need bow weight and speed to clean up, weighting yours like a traditional v drive, I just don't believe the weird lip isn't there...
Taps at what?

I lied... found this... demonstrated jeff_mn. real washy.

This was literally the first time the boat was in the water after I owned it with a newly installed ballast system. At this time I was losing weight out the bags due to me being a dummy head and routing the vent lines in a weird way. probably 1100 ballast and 2 people in boat (including driver)

boardman74 11-30-2012 4:19 PM

Wake looks good. See the last one we looked at(2001 21i Riders) the gauges were falling apart. The needles were laying in the bottom of the screen. I've read this is normal for these. That bugged me as it looked like crap and the gauge didn't work. Some might not care, but I like to know what my engine temp is or my fuel status.

illini88 11-30-2012 7:06 PM

I had a 2000 Tige 20i, which would have been tige's base model of that era. It wasn't the plushest boat on earth, but I really didn't have many complaints with the quality. I replaced the interior when I got it. Mine had a stitched in pattern on the dog house (which a v drive wouldn't have) and on the rear sun deck. The seams in those areas were shot. Otherwise, the seats were all fine. I just couldn't match the vinyl as well as I wanted so I replaced all of it. While people complain about the vinyl quality, the previous owner of mine had treated it like crap, and the seats were all in good shape, as was the carpet. To me, the thing always seemed like it was well put together. The tower rattled, but it was after market

I currently have a 01 Elite V, which was the second boat you mentioned. I really like the boat, and it seems very well built as well. It's an all around nicer boat than my Tige was. That being said, the Centurion is brutal to keep speed with. perfect pass was a must with this boat, and I still feel like it hunts for speed more than my tige did. The wake on the elite v is solid but not spectacular. Plenty good for an intermediate rider such as myself, but not pro-level. I found with too much rear weight, the wake was tough to clean up. The interior space is great. It's been a perfect compromise boat. for our family. I board behind it, slalom, and foot with it, it's not too big to tow, and I can load it up with people to cruise the lake on a holiday weekend.

Just my observations.

surffresh 12-01-2012 11:53 AM

I have a customer with one for sale in VA, nice rig one owner boat, new interior, a guy came out and test drove, made an offer, seller agreed, buyer "said" he will take it on 12-10 but did not give a deposit, it's listed on OIB, first come.....

will5150 12-03-2012 7:07 AM

Faria Guages are lifetime warrantied- they are also on MOST boats made ( wakeboard and othrwise) Hardly a reason to select a boat.

jronix 12-03-2012 2:40 PM

Im probably going to wait until February or early march for my purchase. If any of you are upgrading and will have a boat in my price range keep me in mind.

boardjnky4 12-03-2012 3:22 PM

everything is for sale for the right price.... 2006 centurion elite v

jronix 12-03-2012 4:03 PM

What options? 20k?

boardjnky4 12-05-2012 6:51 AM

it would probably take 25 .... perfect pass, center ballast, tower, board racks, bennett wake plate, under 300 hours

jronix 12-05-2012 7:02 AM

Thats a bit high for me, my max will be 22k.

will5150 12-06-2012 10:29 AM

Ping me in the spring- Probably gonna sell. I am in MInnesota. the Boat is in very good shape- interior is perfect, Perfect pass, no ballast and I have the old tower, but it works fine, doesn't rattle and no cracks. The trailer's been completely rebuilt too.. About 500 hours on it. I have owned since new and it's always been in doors. two props ( Stainless Cutter and Acme Nibral- don't remember the number but the boat gets up just fine fully weighted ) I also have a barefoot boom that will go with the boat- great for training newbies. Most of the MN crew has been on it and I think will testify to it's cleanliness and quality.
Thanks,

jronix 12-06-2012 5:43 PM

Im assuming it has taps? And curious about year. Any pics. I would like to have a boat by mid march.

will5150 12-10-2012 9:44 AM

Yes to TAPS- Thought the Year was mentioned- 2001 2100Vltd. has the Millenium dash, wood grain look to it. it's dark green with a tan accent line on the side panel. White hull and deck. The interior is called "mushroon" - it's a light beige - has green and black accents. Don't have pics yet, but I can post some or send me an e-mail and i'll send them that way... The MN crew will attest to the condition I'm sure- it's probably as clean a 2001 boat as you'll find.

jeff_mn 12-10-2012 11:34 AM

It's as clean as most 2011's, not 2001's.

jronix 12-10-2012 3:46 PM

If the price is right I am interested.

brycejb328 12-11-2012 8:09 AM

Will is real strict about wipe downs too... water never dries on his boat. I'd buy it. Then again I've test drove it fifty times!

jronix 12-11-2012 1:31 PM

Any idea on what it would cost to put 2200 pounds or so of ballast in that boat? The place by me said around 4k which seemed high to me.

boardman74 12-11-2012 2:36 PM

That seems way high to me. I doubt theres more than $1000 in parts and even if their labor rate is $100/hour thats excessive. That would be 30 hours of labor and a experienced shop wouldn't take anywhere close to that for a 3 part system.

chpthril 12-11-2012 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jronix (Post 1798036)
Any idea on what it would cost to put 2200 pounds or so of ballast in that boat? The place by me said around 4k which seemed high to me.

There are some unknown variables such as which sacs, would be used, what pumps, how the is going to be configured, shops labor rate and how many hours they are estimating.

PM sent

brycejb328 12-11-2012 3:03 PM

Three ballast puppies alone is 600 bills. I just did a good (no cutting corners) install on the boat pictured above. The hardware, valves, hose and fittings add up fast.

But it is very possible to do a very clean install on a 21v

Gotmods 12-11-2012 4:46 PM

Three bags will be north of $500, three puppies south of $600, plus hose/clamps, thru hull fittings, ball valves, bag fittings, and valves. Wakemakers can build you a custom package and probably save you a few bucks. A good guess is $1300-$1500 total with three ballast puppies. Wakemakers can also save you a few bucks with aerator pumps.

Then DIY install.

polarbill 12-11-2012 8:00 PM

3 x http://www.boatersland.com/jpi102469...FaN_QgodvkUABw =450
2 x http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-fat-sac.html =300
1 x http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-i...d-bow-sac.html =270
install stuff like switches, wire, thru hulls, hose=~150

So that comes to about 1170 in parts. I bet if you shop around and find a deal on the bags as well and get another 50-100 off. This is you buying the parts, a shop that has done lots of installs should be able to get the parts cheaper and even with a markup the parts should be in the ~1500 range. I can't imagine it would take a good install guy that has done this before more than 5 hours for a complete install working uninterrupted. If the install guy hasn't done a lot of these you shouldn't be paying full shop rate so he can learn how to do it. Labor shouldn't be more than $500. There is no way I would pay more than 2000-2500 for a professionally installed 3 bag ballast system unless there was special pumps or bags involved.

boardman74 12-12-2012 10:57 AM

Thats what I was thinking, in the 2K range. 4K seems way high.

You make a good point about paying for inexperience. A professional shop should never make you pay to have their guy learn. Exact reason the rest of the mechanics work uses flat rate. Boats don't seem to have flat rate guidelines.

jronix 12-12-2012 1:17 PM

Looks like I will shop around. Since this will be my first v drive boat and have no experience with ballast installation I prefer to have it done. I have no problem paying between 1500 & 2000, I just dont want to get ripped off. Thanks for all of the info.

will5150 12-12-2012 1:21 PM

Maybe Bryce can do it to my boat before I let it go :) now that he's got all the leaks worked out- he did do a great job with thew install!

will5150 12-12-2012 1:23 PM

thanks for the props Jeff and Bryce- the boat is very clean.

jronix 12-12-2012 1:44 PM

If it does work out with your boat that would be great to have it installed.

surffresh 12-17-2012 5:34 AM

we just sold our 2001 Mellenium ed. for 21,500 and it was mint

robandrus 12-18-2012 9:35 PM

They said how much for a ballast system!!!
I've installed at least 8 or 9 systems on different boats. On my last x-star I had to try several configurations to make it perfect. There are a lot of opinions on how to do it but for a three bag system this is what I would recommend.

Here's your shopping list:
Go to Walmart and buy the 800 gph Tsunami pumps 6 @ $30 = $180
Walmart- wire - I've used speaker thick speaker line. $15
West Marine- bilge hose 30' @ $1/ft = $30
Wakemakers.com 3 ballast switches @ $12 each = $36
Some thu hull fittings 6 @ $8 each =$48
Hose clamps from autozone approx $20

Grand total in parts = $299!

(If you already have bags)
Get three 540# straightline bags from ebay -approx $300
(The new straighline bags use PVC standard threads that is the same used in your sprinkler system so you can get adapters at Home Depot for pennies) $20

Mount up and you're done.
If you need more hidden weight, try the 50# bags of play sand from home depot for $3 each.
I usually hide 4-500lbs under seats. =$50

Hidden ballast, cheap, easy, reliable.

robandrus 12-18-2012 9:38 PM

By the way, I just bought a 2002 20V today!
Getting it shipped from Texas this weekend.

I've had two Tige's in the past. They handle great, have a very clean, large wake that is really meaty. Tige's turn sharper than other boats I've had. Also they feel very safe because they have higher side walls.

12-19-2012 12:11 PM

A lil advice for the 21v. We are going to be on our 4th alternator simply because the back hatches are the worst design. If you step on the back hatches after getting out of the water. All the water dripping from you with flow straight onto the belt and the alternator. I would fabricate a splash guard that will direct the water into the side compartments at least.


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