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-   -   What diet and training regime do you guys do to stay lean but still add muscle (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=796067)

bryce2320 10-31-2012 6:52 PM

What diet and training regime do you guys do to stay lean but still add muscle
Im not sure where to put this thread, but I think here is best since diet and weight training is kind of a necessity when wakeboarding. I read a book called Carb Nite a while back and it is a ketogenic diet. Under 30 carbs a day for the first 10 days, than after a full body workout out, you can carb load on the 10th night. You than go back to keto for 5 to 7 days and have a carb night to refill your glycogen stores. I drop weight on this diet, which Im sure 3/4 of it is water. I also shoot for a 700-1000 calorie deficit a day so I can drop around 2 lbs a week. I weighed 196 Monday and am already down to 188 as of this morning which I know its water.

Combined with my keto diet, I also do intermittent fasting. I do at least a 16 hours fast, than a 8 hour feeding window. I workout around 4 which I normally break fast with a snack before I hit the gym. Some days Ill fast for 20 hours but still like to hit at least 2000 calories.

Right now my workout plan is:
Monday: Chest/tris, abs
Tuesday: Back/ Bis
Wednesday is off day
Thursday: Shoulders/ Abs
Friday: Legs
Weekend is also off

Sorry for the long write up, but just curious to what some of you guys are doing to stay in shape and keep adding a little bulk throughout the year. I was decently cut up in March at 168, but than I started going to the lake every weekend, and drinking beer. Than I turned 21 and drank a ton of beer in June:D My goal by the first of the year is to cut back down to at least 170, than do a real clean bulk to get me where I want to be for the summer. Any input or plans that are working for you guys would b awesome

ironj32 10-31-2012 7:09 PM

I don't do anything complicated. For the most part I do the following.

Every day I eat:
*Bowl of cereal for breakfast - 530am
*Snack (usually frosted mini wheats) around - 9am
*Healthy Lunch (turkey sandwich and veggies) - noon
*Snack (Bowl of Oatmeal) - 2pm
*Healthy Dinner - 5pm

During the off season (Nov-Apr) I do Crossfit. I follow the Workout Of The Day on Crossfit.com to the T...3 days on 1 day off, and don't cut corners during the workouts...push yourself every day.

During the season I do a 3 days per week workout...regular lifting.

phillywakeboarder 10-31-2012 9:43 PM

I just started my 9th week of P90X. The program is super, super, super legit. It's a huge commitment - you're working out 6 days a week for 55 to 90 minutes, and consuming more protein and vegetables than you can imagine - but man oh man it freaking works. I'm no fitness expert, but I really can't imagine a better way to stay or get in shape for wakeboarding. The program kills your back, legs, core, and arms; increases your cardiovascular endurance; and improves balance and flexibility. If you've got the time, I highly recommend it.

Hooya 11-01-2012 2:22 AM

I pretty much stick to compound lifts and HIIT. Diet is key though...no alcohol makes a massive massive difference. No processed food and no gluten. 3 ltrs water.a day.

All depends how much will power and how much you want to achieve a certain weight, fat % or mass size. Whatever your goals the way to get there is simple but it takes work and effort in one way or another.

Hooya 11-01-2012 2:24 AM

Plus I don't think you need to do any specific ab work. If you are lifting proper i.e deadlifting/squats/overhead squats and you are a wakeboarder you will more than likely hitting your core enough.

Hooya 11-01-2012 5:05 AM

someone posted this today


Which basically shows it is better to regularly ingest protein for mass building and avoid intermittent fasting.

Nothing wrong with carb cycling though imo.

wakebordr11 11-01-2012 7:35 AM

To the OP - if you are fluctuating that much, you're doing it wrong in my opinion... I eat and drink whatever I want, whenever I want, that said, it isn't all the time.
A few simple rules I live by:

- Soda is once a week or every other week... sometimes not even in a month, I still consume energy drinks - yes I know they are bad for you.
- Completely avoid high fructose corn syrup. That stuff is a one way ticket to obesity and health problems.
- I eat small meals but throughout the day, fast for 20 hrs then eat 2000cal? Are you kidding me? thats nuts!, if you are eating small, you feel full, keep your stomach small, drink at least a gallon of water a day, its keeping you cleaned out and hydrated...

- Every now and then if I have a craving for chicken wings, I eat chicken wings. If I want hot dogs and mac n cheese, I eat it up. I don't schedule cheat days, I feel that is a one way ticket once again to over eating and doing damage. I find I cheat on a consistent basis but I never look forward to it and sometimes I won't cheat for 2 weeks straight.

- I measure my portions, within reason. Half cup of rice is a serving. One slice of bread is a serving. Unless I am planning some big runs/bikes or other physical activities throughout the day, I consume, on average, 4-6 servings of whole grains as carbs. I eat 1-3 pcs of fruit a day and I try to eat as much vegetables as I can. I figure you can almost never eat enough vegetables. I do on occasion eat a full chicken breast - which is on average 2-3 servings of meat... it happens. If americans ate proper portions, you'd see obesity be nearly obsolete.

- I vary my workouts, try to do as much with a barbell as I can. Compound exercises work your core and multiple muscle groups, which is good for wakeboarding. The main lifts I concentrate on are - bench press/pushups, hand stand pushups against a wall/military press, pull ups, dead lifts, some squats, clean and press, snatch, rows, dips, muscle ups. I rarely do bicep curls, tricep extensions or any machine - occasional cables, dumbells and barbells as well as body weight are all that's needed. I also do a mix of cardio - mountain biking, running, will hit the rowing machine on rare occasion...

It sounds complicated but it's really easy with a bit of discipline - I like simplicity and routine. Eat clean, workout a few days a week and make sure you make time to relax from work and working out, people aren't machines...

I know everyone has goals, you want to cut then bulk, challenging yourself is great. As I approach 30, I have felt more and more that I need to normalize myself for the future. I used to survive as a 195-200lb person. Now I'm 183-187... I feel better, run faster, lift almost as much as I did and wakeboard better. Clothes from highschool fit me - jeans and stuff, when I was a 165lb wimp... Consistency and promoting a high metabolism is the name of the game for me(not speeding up, slowing down, messing with the body...) - I'll go eat thanks giving dinner, put down 5-6k cal in a day, the next day I'm back to my norm and I haven't gained a pound.

wakebordr11 11-01-2012 7:41 AM

BTW... 6lbs of water is 3 quarts... If you are down 3 qts of water, you're dehydrated...

simplej 11-01-2012 8:25 AM

I bulk and workout 6 times per week. 3 running and light lifting and 3 lifting. I eat high proteins and fats and try not to worry about losing body fat until maybe February and just maintaining body fat and building muscle. Come February I switch my diet over and start focusing more on running and flexibility, do yoga etc. as well as losing the fa and simply maintainjngthe muscle. The muscle you've built during phase 1 helps you lose weight while phase 2 prepares you for more high intensity, high endurance activity. It sounds ridiculous but it works for me, although this is likely do to my body type. Just find whatever works for you and stick with it. I usually gain about 15 lbs in phase one and lose 10 in phase 2(I'm in college and beer doesn't help) . Then usually another 10 over the summer. I'm not small and agile like say oli so it helps to make up for that with strength IMO.

Hooya 11-01-2012 8:39 AM

It is not ridiculous....having more muscle mass will make fat loss easier. (hence why women who are scared of lifting weights usually progress the slowest

wspeedin 11-01-2012 8:49 AM

Portion control!!! I eat veggies, some fruits and lean meats full of protein. No fast food or processed food. I try to follow a diet caleld "The Eat Clean Diet".

As far as work out routine....
Monday is wheelchair basketball practice for 5 hours. Which consist of shooting drills, speed and agility drills, cardio conditioning and Scrimmage.
Tuesday is gym, 30 minutes of medium intensity cardio followed by full body weight training(except for my legs)(paraplegic). I use cable machines and free weights.
Wednesday is wheelchair basketball practice for 2 hours. We work on plays and scrimmage. So this day is jsut a high intesity cardio day.
Thrusday is gym, 30 minutes of medium intensity cardio followed by full body weight training except for legs (paraplegic). I use cable machine and free weights.
Friday is optional swimming or wheelchair sprints and suicides till failure.
Saturday and Sunday are full recovery days. Mainly work on finger dexterity, lol, working that TV remote. Or dreaded yard work :(

jarrod 11-01-2012 9:24 AM

There have been a lot of threads on this. But I can tell you at a glance, that you probably shouldn't be on a split routine. Picking certain days to focus on and isolate a couple of muscle groups is an old school body builder approach. It is an approach intended for building muscle. Full body circuit routines, Olympic style lifts, and integrated (multi-muscle group) exercises are more appropriate for a wakeboarders lifestyle. Overall, you're be more athletic.

Focus on the 3 primary full-body patterns. Squat, push, pull.

bcrider 11-01-2012 10:04 AM

To the OP. If your wanting to build muscle you will need carbs and fasting is not going to do anything. If you want to build muscle then you need to be fueling your body. Not starving it. Eat a "clean" diet. Meats, veggies, fruits. Building muscle and staying lean are typically two different styles of workouts. As Jarrod said. If you are wanting to stay leaner you need to be doing high rep circuit type training with a lot of cardio. Check out bodybuilding.com You enter in your sex, age, add muscle or lose weight, and it comes up with different plans. Now, of course they are still pretty broad as they don't take in to acount of the body type you have already but they are a good start and idea of what you should be doing. The website is packed with information from Nutrition, Supplements, work outs, and also has a forum. If you want to lose weight you need to consume approximately 500 less calories then your body needs on an average day to maintain weight. If you want to gain muscle you need to add 500 calories to your diet.

wakebordr11 11-01-2012 10:37 AM

One other thing to consider is wakeboarders are not brute strength... being huge doesn't make you better. You've got to do injury preventive maintenance to your body - stretching and compound lifts... Explosiveness, power to weight ratio all come into play riding. Another reason I strived to get down 10 lbs from where I was while maintaining strength and agility, increasing endurance. What's harder on the knees, landing in the flats weighing 200lbs or weighing 185? I also ski in the winter - telemark skiing is doing lunges down the whole mtn, is it easier to do perpetual lunges weighing more or less? Unless you want to be a body builder or lineman in football/rugby, I see no reason for bulk because bulk can turn into fat a lot easier than lean in my opinion... and bulk and being muscle bound doesn't aid in grabs, handle passes, anything...

11-01-2012 10:58 AM

You guys have it all wrong...

1. Move to FL where you can wakeboard 7days/wk yr round
2. have lots of sex.

No need for the gym routines then after those activities.

simplej 11-01-2012 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr (Post 1792329)
You guys have it all wrong...

1. Move to FL where you can wakeboard 7days/wk yr round
2. have lots of sex.

No need for the gym routines then after those activities.

thats my summer routine

tuneman 11-01-2012 11:30 AM

My current workout is lifting bundles of shingles up to my roof. Wow, it's a workout! You all should come over and give it a try:D

wakebordr11 11-01-2012 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr (Post 1792329)
You guys have it all wrong...

1. Move to FL where you can wakeboard 7days/wk yr round
2. have lots of sex.

No need for the gym routines then after those activities.

Yea... where I used to live I had my weekly 3-4 workout rotation... new homestead, I'm trying to avoid heavy lifting as much as possible but it may be necessary to get a workout in...

Orange 11-01-2012 1:27 PM

For the majority of us, "lean and strong" is far more simple than some of the pseudoscience you will see. Strength is a matter of strength training - most likely weight lifting. Lean is a matter of calories eaten vs calories burned. If you aren't lean already, you need to either consume fewer calories or burn more. These two concepts alone get you 95% of your answer. All the other stuff about carbs, sources of calories, or other things that sound like chemistry *might* help you if you are a competitive I body builder or are a professional athlete that needs 100% of your full potential to earn a living. If all you are trying to do is be in great shape for wakeboarding you can simplify your life, ignore all the "chemistry lessons" about diet, and follow a simple program: a basic, well rounded weight lifting program, jogging or treadmill, and eat a healthy diet with portion sizes based on how lean you need to get. It's that simple... No need to get fancy.

Hooya 11-01-2012 2:03 PM

I sort of agree with you Orange but it does depend on ones goal. But either way I would always suggest what makes up your kcals is by far more important than kcals itself. Especially if you are wanting to maintain or increase muscle mass. Eating small portions of Big Macs just won't cut it. (pun intended).

Jogging to aid being lean is a very inefficient way of training for fat loss. You could spend a 10th of the time doing more intense cardio for greater results.

Further, the reality is due to modern life most people have become or are becoming insulin resistant. With out addressing that and your other hormonal responses you will be making something that could take you 8 weeks to achieve more like 6 months.

None of this is fancy. This basic modern training imo.

bryce2320 11-01-2012 4:34 PM

All great advice. Thanks alot

seth 11-01-2012 7:27 PM


This is the best and easiest diet/workout ive done. Read this guys blog and see if its something you can do. I didnt think I would be able to survive a 16 hour fast, but its easy. I pulled a bunch of stuff off here for workouts and guidelines. PM me if you want me to send it to you.

bryce2320 11-01-2012 8:59 PM

I used to study lean gains all the time. I started following it again and just threw in keto in with it. It's easy for me to follow. I need to log back on to that site and read as its been a while

bryce2320 11-01-2012 9:00 PM

A lot of people don't seem to believe in it, but for cutting, I think it's great.

Anaru 11-01-2012 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by bryce2320 (Post 1792421)
A lot of people don't seem to believe in it, but for cutting, I think it's great.

Intermittent fasting isn't for every1 and can go either well or bad. I personally can't last that long with out food otherwise I go insane. It can also be catabolic so using it to 'bodybuild' it may work against u.

I don't think it's a science, if u are getting fat eat less, if u are too skinny train harder eat more. Pretty simple, reading and understanding your body is the hard part...

Hooya 11-02-2012 3:47 AM

train harder eat more

That is by far the best advice for mass gains. If you are not gaining you need to "train harder and/or eat more".

DatTexasBoy 11-02-2012 7:32 AM

M- Insanity
T- Chest/Triceps
W- Insanity
Th- Back/ Biceps
Fri- Insanity
Sat- Legs/Shoulders

I did P90 for 4yrs straight (after first year I went to 5 days) I went from 285 to 210 and I'm 6'4". Great program. I will say that if you want some serious cardio the Insanity Program is the way to go. I would not say I have a diet I just EAT CLEAN 6 days a week and cheat one day. I'm 35 and in the best shape I've ever been.

Anaru 11-02-2012 2:07 PM


Originally Posted by Hooya (Post 1792440)
train harder eat more

That is by far the best advice for mass gains. If you are not gaining you need to "train harder and/or eat more".

I should add that by 'eat more' I mean quality foods not take out or fast food lol. Abs are made in the kitchen, if u aren't eating in a deficit then weight will not move off, if u don't eat in a surplus, how do u expect to gain more? As I said simply really lol
I am currently 200lbs 5'9" and around 15% bf. I wouldn't say I'm lean but im far from fat. Train 4 days no cardio
M- chest, bi's
T- legs
W- off
T- back and abs
F- Shoulders, tri's

tahoeguy7 11-02-2012 2:20 PM

P90X is the way to go if you want to improve your athletic ability while staying flexible. As far as diet goes, I try to portion control and eat as healthy as possible. Hardcore diets never work for me, becuase they are too hard to maintain. Figure out how many calories you want to take in per day and stick to that. Losing weight slow is the way to go. If you lose weight fast, you can put it back on equally as fast once you quit your routine.

yeahhh 11-02-2012 3:39 PM

Only on a wakeboard forum you will get people talking about "training".. I am at a loss where wakeboarding is headed. I think i'll stop caring now.

DatTexasBoy 11-03-2012 6:23 PM

Wish I knew how many calories you burn on a 20 min session of normal riding? This should be a great debate! Just curious, something close would work.

wakebordr11 11-03-2012 7:08 PM

I bet if you wakeboarded for an hour straight you'd burn 350-550 cals depending on what you were doing. So a 20 minute set of hard riding I would believe 150-180...

Hooya 11-04-2012 6:06 AM

"20 min session of normal riding?"

It depends if you are talking how much you lose because of the actual session or 'post workout" if you like.

Kcals burnt during the actual session probably would be minimal in the scheme of things. Especially if you are a regular boarder; your body will adapt quite quickly.

wakeborder5 11-04-2012 7:28 AM

What do you guys suggest for stretching/flexibility? I workout a few days a week, but don't do any significant stretching

simplej 11-04-2012 9:02 AM

Yoga is great for flexibility and core! Do that.

11-04-2012 3:44 PM

Skateboard and Snowboard. Nothing fancy.

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