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-   -   Help choosing Family Wakeboard/wakesurf boat (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=795710)

goride 09-27-2012 7:44 PM

Help choosing Family Wakeboard/wakesurf boat
 
Looking to pick up a boat for the family and my budget is $30,000 and the boats cannot be older than 10 years.

I want something reliable, not beat to hell, gets decent gas efficiency, ballasts, V-drive, perfect pass or equivelant, decent amount of space, and I need to be able to turn the boat around in a narrow delta slough if one of my kids goes down and a following boat is not paying attention (we've had to do this many times in my cousisn nautique in fear the boat behind us is not paying attention). My wife likes to wakesurf exlusively and I like to wakeboard and wakeskate. Neither one of us are that great of riders just some w2w tricks so a huge SAN210 wake is not required but I dont want a garbage wake either.

I dont want the boat to have more than 300 hrs and I need to see maintnance records.

Here is what I have found so far.


2004 Tige 22V riders edition - this seems to be roomy and have a great wake for wakeboarding and wakesurfing. 375 HP motor, ballast tanks, TAPs, and from what i've read the convex haul will have the best fuel efficiency. $30k

2006 MB B-52 21ft with 201 hours and in excellent condition, original owner with maintnance records. Has a 330 HP motor. $30k

2003 Mastercraft X-10 with 400hrs with maintnance records. 330HP motor and ballast tanks. $27.5k

2003 Mastercraft X-30 with 336 hours with maintance records from local dealer. 350 HP motor and the boat has triple ballast with depth finder/perfect pass. $31.k asking but seller is flexible

2004 Mastercraft X-2 with 275hrs with rebuilt motor and 350HP motor with perfect pass. small inside but at $25.5k this is the cheapest of the bunch.


A big thing for me is for the boat to be able to turn on a dime incase I need to power turn to get infront of my kids to protect them. Before any flaming is given I never powerturn when picking up riders out of respect for other boats but I will do it in a heart beat for my kids.

To be honest I'm leaning towards the B-52 or the Tige beause of the space and low hours. Both have all records and look to be in excellent condition. The Mastercrafts from waht i've read/heard had many issues in those years, plus the X-10 and X-30 dont seem like they could turn very quickly. The X-2 could turn on a dime but rebuilt motors with no records worry me, even though a dealership looked over the boat and compression checks on the cylinders looked fine.

Thoughts?

skippabcool 09-27-2012 8:14 PM

If you post links or pics up of the boats you might get a bit better idea based on condition. I think you will also get lots of biased opinions. Have you seen any of the boats or test drove them? The best thing would be to test they all doing exactly what you expect to do. Being older I would make sure you test everything. It can get expensive fixing them especially if you don't do the work.

The Tige should have a great surf wake.

I know several have talked about the wakeboarding wake on the MB's. Being newer might might be an advantage.

My buddy has an '03 X30. I all really know is that the repairs have been expensive. Not saying anything about the boat or the wake / wave. I haven't been on it.

boardman74 09-27-2012 8:23 PM

I know when I asked about a 2004 X-30 people said they don't handle well. Smallish rudder and no tracking fins. It would probably be the worst turning of the bunch.

Your standards are pretty steep so plan to pay top dollar for that type of boat. A 10 year old boat with 300 hours is at an average of 30 per year. Super low and not common. Many on here believe letting them sit is worse than using it. Maintenance records are tough as alot of people do their own.

Like is said on every thread like this. Look at them, demo them, ride behind them. Find the boat that is right for you. I've been looking for a couple months now and only thing on that list I have looked is a 04 X-30. That was just because I was at the dealer already.

I'd wonder why the X-2 had a new motor at 275 hours.

goride 09-27-2012 8:51 PM

X-2 has a new motor because the previous owner did not winterize the engine and the winter months froze the block and he cracked it when it was started back up.

I live in California and the Tige is in Henderson NV so I'd rather have a good idea about the boat then driving out there getting 13 mpg just to come back empty handed.

Seems as if the X-30 is out of the picture. Maybe I'll try to test drive the B-52 and X-10 then. I was set on the X-2 but the replaced block worries me.... if something goes really wrong there goes all the cost savings with it being the cheapest of the bunch. I'f I could only afford the new X-2, that is a nice boat.

xstarrider 09-27-2012 9:05 PM

I would lean towards the Tige 22V and the X10. While the X10 may not have tracking fins it has a deeper v hull and has a ton of room in a 21ft wakeboat of its time which makes it a great family boat. Same with the 22V. The X30 would be alittle rough in the tight slough especially when weighted.

The X2 of that year drives like a ferrarri, thorws a pro level wakeboard wake, but doesn't surf as well as the X10. IT sounds like you are using the boat as a family boat and not really in search of a super core, pro level wakeboard wake. You are just looking of a more all around do everything boat to hang out on and satisy everyones needs which are all different. That X2 hull gets tight quick. Figure 6 adults max after coolers n what not for a day trip. However it will be the best handling and have the best wakeboard wake out of the bunch. I also am skeptical of rebuilt motors. My wife loves our 2000 X Star. She loves the feel , handllng and the way it drives loaded up with 3000lbs of ballast. She feels super comfortable behind the wheel and we ride on some narrow rivers. Its downfall is space, but everything else about it is awesome.

I wasn't a fan of the graphics or the wake of that era B52. the wake had a weird shape and it was hard to get dialed. I just didn;t care for it. Howver a current year MB is awesome. Love their wakes. Never surfed the old B52.

kko13 09-28-2012 1:39 AM

I think your right on track.. When I read your list of needs the Tige 22v jumps off the page as the clear winner. I own a 2003 22v and love it. Everything you want is in that boat. By far the most fuel efficent of the bunch. Wakeboard wake is awesome with stock ballast and has room to improve with additional. Surf wake is awesome on both sides. Handles and rides wonderful. Tons of room for the family and all the "stuff" that comes with. I have 2 kids and my daughter always brings firends.So we always have atleast 2 adults and 4 kids and sometimes as many as 10 total people on the boat and it never disapoints when it comes to space. I agree with alot that swat said in his post. I have a customer with an X-10 and I have been out in it. Its a nice boat as well.Differences I have seen... X10 uses more fuel. IMPO does not ride or handle as well asmy boat. Wake board wake is nice on X10 just not as adjustable as the Tige 22V. Surf wake is better on the Tige. Tige is bigger so yes it has more room.As far as the X2 the WB wake is great. But the surf wave is not even in the same league as the 22v. The ones I have been in are the saltwater series and had the hydraulic steering. Yes it was easy to steer but felt wierd. Not bad just different. Its a roomy 20ft but like swat said does fill up quick. As far as the rebuilt motor goes..yeah that can get kinda touchy. Now if it was a replacement engine from Indmar I wouldnt worry about it as much. Good luck in your search I hope you and your family find the boat that fits your needs.

jeff_mn 09-28-2012 6:12 AM

I'll throw another vote in for the 22v

boardman74 09-28-2012 6:18 AM

22V probably is the best boat of the group. The price seems high though. There is an 05 here for sale with 150 hours for 27K and it has been sitting at a dealer for most of the summer. Issue with that one is no trailer, but its clean and super nice. Dealer serviced too.

wakedaveup 09-28-2012 6:31 AM

In terms of quality, room, and wake. I would go with the X30 for sure. Your post says "I'm looking to buy a boat for the family". When comparing an 03 MC that is 23' versus an 04 Tige that is 22', I would hands down go with the X30. It has way more room than the other boats, has the MC quality which honestly was better than Tige especially at that time (not bashing Tige that's a great boat, but in that year MC was putting out higher quality products), and in terms of resale and investment, you'll get more back out an MC X30 than you will a Tige 22. Anyone that recommends an X2 clearly did not see the "buying a boat for the family" part of your post as that boat is 20' and having tons of experience with it, I feel the X30 actually drives better. More boat, same price, better quality, better for the family, and while it may not have a better surf wake than the Tige, do you really want to sacrifice room and quality for a slightly better surf wave or wake? Can't call me biased on this one, Im a CC guy.

wakedaveup 09-28-2012 6:34 AM

If you can get a good price on the X30 just see if you can take it to a dealer and have the better rudder put on.

insuranceman 09-28-2012 6:45 AM

the rudder upgrade on the x30 is not that expensive. room and quality are top notch.

wakebordr11 09-28-2012 7:25 AM

I don't know if anyone has said it yet, but I wouldn't pay 30 for a 2004 Tige... If it's mint, maybe 28 max, but that's a 25-28 boat, not 30 IMO. I would take the X-2 at 25 over the Tige at 30 all day long but I know you need the space. Those old x-10 and x-30, not as desirable if you ask me

wakedaveup 09-28-2012 7:36 AM

OP- I used to own an 06 MB B52. If the 21' range is suitable to you, that is a great boat. Especially if you can find one in mint condition. Driveability and the PCM power train are top notch. I never had a single problem with my MB in regards to the engine, hull, components, or vinyl. AT ALL. Ballst fills pretty fast too if you pull the two rear plugs (MB used pumps in that year and under the swim platform were two plastic threaded plugs that you could pull and fill the ballast quicker). Never had a problem with gel coat or oxidation either and my boat sat outside in the sun for 2 years under a standard cover. Great boat. That said, the MB wake is pretty beefy and wide. Mine was at least. I added additional ballast as well and like one of the other posters above said, it took awhile to dial it in. The wake can be washy if you don't have evenly disbursed weight in that boat. We didn't surf much either when I had that boat, we are all pretty dedicated wakeboarders so we were riding 5-6 nights a week and really weren't even in to surfing so I can't give too much advice on that. Other than that the MB isn't a bad way to go.

wakereviews 09-28-2012 7:46 AM

I've surfed and wakeboarded the MB 21 hull as well. Agree with D Ave above but i can tell you the wakesurf wave is very good on that boat. Needs weight in the locker and in the nose to lengthen the pocket but it is very good.

jafo9 09-28-2012 7:54 AM

though probably not a deal breaker, check the racks on the 03 MC's. the standard racks for that year had a different clamping mechanism that they abandoned after 1 year. from what i hear, the parts can be hard to find once they break or eject into the water. i can't comment on the non-MC hulls, but i've been in the x30, x10 and x2. if space is important, the 10 and 30 have a much bigger feel although even the x30 has a smaller feel when compared to current 23' boats that have a full 8'6" beam.

ReSession 09-28-2012 8:01 AM

Don't forget about Supreme Boats! I had a 2006 V220 as my first boat and it was great!

They are affordable, you can get a newer model for the money, they are efficient (5.7L 330 hp Black Scorpion), and models like the V220 turn on a dime...great all-around boat, I used mine for mainly surfing but pulled tubers and wakeboarders as well.

2007 V220 with 100 hours for $31,555 - http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=31141

2006 V220 with 60 hours for $30,000 including 2 amps and 2 12" subs, ballast and more - http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=27592

2005 V220 with 135 hours for $29,950 - http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...e-V-220-340371

2005 V220 for $28,500 - http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...V220-101819632

2005 V208 for $29,998, loaded with WetSounds, PerfectPass, heater, etc - http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...V208-101702184

Anyway, thought I'd suggest these since you're looking at these 2003/2004 models where you could get something newer for the same $$$. Good luck!

goride 09-28-2012 8:42 AM

Just to throw one more in the mix. I found a 07 Calabria pro v with 64hrs for $31.5, located in oregona so another out of state boat

polarbill 09-28-2012 8:49 AM

All the boats sound pretty good. From what I can tell the Tige 22v has by far the best wakeboard/surf wake of the bunch. It will also have the best rough water ride of all them.

What makes the Tige more fuel efficient? I thought their clame was it was more fuel efficient because you didn't need ballast but as we all know they do. Does that make the prt about fuel efficiency false? Is somehow the convex V actually more fuel efficient?

jeff_mn 09-28-2012 8:52 AM

04' Tige is still a nice boat..

Whenever I think or a larger family boat on a budget that rides rough water well and is capable of surfing and wakeboarding - I think Centurion.

:dunno:

polarbill 09-28-2012 8:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goride (Post 1786257)
Just to throw one more in the mix. I found a 07 Calabria pro v with 64hrs for $31.5, located in oregona so another out of state boat

Love those calabria's. It will have the biggest cockpit area by far of all the boats you listed. It also has a deeper V like the Tige so should be good in rough water, shouldnt' need a ton of weight to make a good wakeboard wake and should throw a good surf wake. The quality of them is really good in my opinion. I had an 03 or 04 direct drive Calabria and I really felt the quality of the boat was above average. Those came with 700 pounds of quick fill ballast which is a nice start but I would plumb in 750's to the rear for surfing and maybe keep an extra sack for the front if you want it to kick up a bigger/better wakeboard wake. Keep in mind that although they seem to be listed as a 24' boat they are actually 21.5'. Most also seemed to come with perfect pass, heater, nice trailers, nice covers, racks, etc... so it should be pretty well loaded. One thing that I would probably want on the ProV is the trim tab.

goride 09-28-2012 9:56 AM

What do you guys think about the b52? My wife is in love with that boat just from the pictures

Fiveflat 09-28-2012 10:23 AM

Where in Calif. are you? My friend has a 23ft B-52 in that price range too...

goride 09-28-2012 10:58 AM

Im in brentwood

In regards to the sky supremes, ive seen tio many with tebuilt motors with lowering hours being dumped on craigslist which worries me. Also, most of the sangers ive seen have stress cracks around the towers

polarbill 09-28-2012 11:01 AM

Another boat to add to your list if you are on the west coast is a Sanger V215. Great wakeboard wake, great surf wake, great rough water ride, great handling, super solid core construction, great factory support, usually great price, etc...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/3269972578.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/3286051919.html

http://redding.craigslist.org/boa/3257202408.html this one is pretty much Hate and Pain's twin boat.

http://fresno.craigslist.org/bod/3293212094.html

Love this one http://fresno.craigslist.org/boa/3272391350.html

http://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/3259126697.html

http://boulder.craigslist.org/boa/3237295464.html

wakedaveup 09-28-2012 12:27 PM

Personal opinion, and may get bashed for this, but I'll take an MB or MC over a Sanger or Calabria any day of the week. Hated my buddies Calabria and he had nothing but issues with it (interior fell apart, gel coat spider cracked, etc) and as far as sanger just have never really liked the looks, appear to have shallow freeboard, and are honestly price point boats. MB is more mid range and I think you'll get the most out of your investment with an MB and MC. Plus, if the wife is already in love than consider this discussion over haha! We all know how that goes.

polarbill 09-28-2012 12:45 PM

I think MB being a higher end boat vs Sanger being a price point boat is only because the MB comes standard with stuff that is options on the Sanger. All of that stuff is fairly easy to add after the fact. I dont' think it has anything to do with quality of products used or quality of construction. One thing that is interesting is that you pretty much never hear of any problems with Sangers.

goride 09-28-2012 7:54 PM

I looked at the MB and its hands down the cleanest all around boat we've seen in regards to the condition it was kept in and the quality and storage. Sunday we'll test drive it then ill need it to be inspected.

Any suggestions on what to look for?

wakedaveup 09-29-2012 7:58 AM

The PCM engines are pretty bullet proof. I would get a compression test though over anything else. Compression will give you a real good idea of the current condition of the engine. Of course check for leaking gaskets around manifolds as well as the water pump. Listen for any vibrations on the demo, makes sure there was never damage to your running gears, prop, or rudder. If the impeller hasn't been changed in a year, change it or check it at very least. Does this boat have the 2 speed transmisison? MB used the 2 speed transmission in some of there boats but not sure if this one has it. If it does, I'd get the tranny checked out for sure. Sounds like it was taken good care of though. Like I said in the previous post I never had a problem with anything on my 06 B52 and I did all the services, winterization, and summerization by myself and not at the dealer. Then again that could be why I never had a problem lol. I got the boat when the dealer was going in the dumps so I got a screamin deal.

ixfe 09-29-2012 10:42 AM

How much $$ is the MB you are looking at?

I noticed in your post you said that turning on a dime is key criteria for you? If so, I suggest you look at '05 - '06 Malibus. Due to flat bottoms and BIG tracking fins they handle and turn tighter than most boats.

Also, you said this is a family boat. If you have small kids who are still learning, you will like how the clean the Malibu wake is at low speeds.

Finally, Bu's of that vintage are pretty easy to find in the low $30's.

Here's one of many...

http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=35129

shawndoggy 09-29-2012 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixfe (Post 1786493)

That's a direct drive.

35k is the breakpoint I've seen for 05 and up vlx's. and even that low seems pretty hard to find.

goride 09-29-2012 11:47 AM

The 2006 b52 is 30k with 200 hrs in perfect condition. The 2003 x30 is in good condition but has one tear and a little more wear on the hull with 365 hrs but he'll do 27k. The x30 doesnt have tracking fins but with an upgraded rudder it sounds like itll make a big difference.

What do you guys think? Is it worth to save 3k and have a bigger boat and sacrafice handling?

wakebordr11 09-29-2012 1:22 PM

How much does the rudder cost? I wouldn't Chase a handling problem because it might get better but unless you water test it upgraded you'll never know if you truly like it or not

boardman74 09-29-2012 3:47 PM

You have to figure out if you want to do that Like delta said. I looked at an 04 X30 and just wasn't a fan. Boat had 550 hours and just hadn't aged well. There are well documented turning and handling concerns with that boat. I had one past owner tell me it turned just like his neighbors I/O. I wondered if with a strong rider you could walk the boat.

I am all but sure it's not going to turn on a dime like you said was a must have. It's a big boat with a smallish rudder and no tracking fins.....do the math. They are nice boats and I am sure on an open lake it's fine, but probably not the best for close quarters.

goride 09-30-2012 7:22 AM

I just found an 07 sanger v215 with 240 hrs. How would the sanger compare to the B52?

cwb4me 09-30-2012 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbill (Post 1786258)
All the boats sound pretty good. From what I can tell the Tige 22v has by far the best wakeboard/surf wake of the bunch. It will also have the best rough water ride of all them.

What makes the Tige more fuel efficient? I thought their clame was it was more fuel efficient because you didn't need ballast but as we all know they do. Does that make the prt about fuel efficiency false? Is somehow the convex V actually more fuel efficient?

The convex V hull makes the rear of the boat sink in the water naturally .Result bigger wake with no weight.Then add Taps 2 plate which makes the boat plane at lower and higher speeds thus better fuel economy. I normally use about 3 gallons a hour surfing at 11 to 11.6 mph. When we wakeboard at 23 mph we use about 5 gallons a hour.Compare that to other manufacturers or go to Boat test .com and compare for yourself.

ralph 10-02-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goride (Post 1786654)
I just found an 07 sanger v215 with 240 hrs. How would the sanger compare to the B52?

I don't have any experience with the b52 but the v215 is an awesome boat, highly recommended.

ryanw209 10-02-2012 12:03 PM

I don't have any experience with the older MB's but I hear they are hard to clean up. I own a 2006 Sanger V215 and it is very easy to get the wake to cleanup with little or no ballast and slower speeds. We learn new tricks at 65ft and about 18mph with a clean wake. That being said for surfing you can get a great wave out of the 215 but you need ALOT of extra weight. For wakeboarding I replaced my stock rear 250 's with 750's, a 1000 lb bow triangle in the nose and the stock 500 in floor.
Only problem I've had is after 4 years and 380 hours the rear seats are starting to separate at the piping but with that much use I expect that.

goride 10-03-2012 9:48 PM

I rode a supra today and its hands down my favorite wake. At slow speeds itll still clean up and with ballasts full doing 22+ mph its amazing

99Bison 10-04-2012 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goride (Post 1787655)
I rode a supra today and its hands down my favorite wake. At slow speeds itll still clean up and with ballasts full doing 22+ mph its amazing

What year, model?

goride 10-05-2012 5:35 AM

It was a 2006 21v. Plenty of storage and id probably change the rear bags to 750lb for surfing. I rode a bigger supra a couple years ago and loved that boat and after riding this supra it reminded me how much i love those boats.

boardman74 10-05-2012 6:08 AM

Well then you probably found your boat!! Might have to stretch the budget some, but I can tell you from experience it saves money in the long run. You are always going to loose money "trading up". Cheaper to spend a little more and get something you will be happy with for a long time to come.

mikebu 10-05-2012 7:37 AM

For the Supra 21v a nice ballast upgrade is to get another stock Front Bag 650 pounds and run 2 of those in the back and then get a gravity games front sack 1180 pounds in the front. This will use your existing connections and you only need to buy 2 bags and one you might be able to get used. I also have 2 fat bricks that I use when surfing.

goride 10-09-2012 9:01 PM

What do you guys think between an 06issue supra 21v and a 2005 SAN 226?

The 226 quality looks top notch, i know the wakeboard wake isnt as good but the surf wake looks awesome


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