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-   -   Bow vs. Midship ballast weight (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=795684)

OneMoreSet 09-26-2012 8:46 AM

Bow vs. Midship ballast weight
 
So I have a 2006 Malibu suncape 21 (vlx - but no ballast).

The previous owner already added 750s to the rears which work out really well.
I'd like to add some weight up front to balance the boat with weight.

I'm wondering what the difference is between adding bow ballast vs. midship ballast.

I can add the bow tank upfront which is approx 300-350lbs.
Or I could add a ski locker sac and I think I could get 750lbs in there.

I'm sure both would be best.
But if I had to choose one, which should I choose.

Under what circumstances would I want to fill only the bow or only the midship or both?

What changes in wake characteristics would I see in either for surfing and/or wakeboarding.

Cheers!!

bcrider 09-26-2012 9:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
You typically want to weight your boat 60/40. 60% of the weight being in the back. Weight your boat how you want or what you find gives you the best wake. The more weight in the back will give you a steep wake. More in the front will give you a mellower ramp.

polarbill 09-26-2012 10:20 AM

My guess is the ski locker sack will be closer to 350-400 pounds because I think that is about what it is on the wakesetters with the stock hard tank under the floor. I am not sure how much room is under the bow seats of those but I would consider getting the biggest sack I could plumb into the locker and have an integrated bow sack that is piggybacked off the locker sack.

OneMoreSet 09-26-2012 10:29 AM

thanks guys, yeah i get the basic idea of forward/rear balance and the basics of how that changes the transition of the wake and shape - but I wonder how the placement of that weight - either further forward or more midship would change the characteristics.

I'm thinking of a boat sitting in the water as perhaps something like a teeter-totter (sp??:confused:)
If you put 500lbs in the very back, and 500lbs in the very front (at the extreme outside limits) of the boat it will sit balanced but just lower in the water.

But much like on the teeter-totter if you put 500lbs on one extreme side, but dont put the other weight at the extreme opposite side you may need more weight given how/where it sits on the axis.

So you may need 700lbs midship to approximate 500lbs in the nose - if what youre trying to do is bring the nose down to lengthen the transition.

your thoughts?

twowake 09-26-2012 10:33 AM

You will have a good wake if you follow Brett"s suggestion. I would rather have them on separate pumps or use a ballast puppy and a Y valve so that i could control the weight placement independently.

OneMoreSet 09-26-2012 10:45 AM

I can get the factory hard tank to replace the whole underseat bow area - they say its 350, but i've heard its likely closer to 300.

I measured out the ski locker and think that you could get at least 650 and likely more with a big enough bag.
The stock hard tank is supposed to be 500 lbs.

I agree the independent fill/drain would likely be best to control.

polarbill 09-26-2012 11:08 AM

I would find out how much an integrated bow sack would add under the bow seats. You might be able to get to around 300 pounds. In that case you would get the ssame ballast as teh bow tank for way less money(at least I am assuming that) and you would still have the walkthrough all the way into the bow or if you have a fill in cushion the space under it. Honestly I don't know why more people don't order Wakesetters without the bow ballast and do this.

OneMoreSet 09-26-2012 12:31 PM

I dont think the IBS would work well on the 21.5' malibus. I've used the IBS sac in the past on a few boats and it worked great. I just dont think the size/shape works well on this specific boat and bag combo.

If you look at the factory bow tank it utilizes almost 100% of the space available up front under the seats - and its rated at 350lbs, which is pretty easy to measure given its a hard tank. So given that i dont know how you can get better efficiency (other than dead space when its empty).
If you look at the space - and then remove the centre section to approximate what the IBS might give you i'd say you'd loose close to 30-50% of total weight.

I know the IBS sac is rated for ~725 but if you look at it that's mostly carried in the nose and the back of each of the 2 legs.
Id estimate the weight in the ibs in these boat at only 200 lbs...!

The bow is just so short on these vlx boats - my other boats the underseat cavity would carry all the way back through the under dash areas which would allow the legs of the ibs to fully extend - which worked great - no so on the 21.5' malibus...

Still wondering how weight totaly up front like lead in the nose would differ from the same weight midship..??

twowake 09-26-2012 1:17 PM

JD,
I have had the same hull and this is what i ran with the 750# sacks in the rear.
1-Fly High W711/Integrated Bow-Rated at 725#
1-Fly High W705 /Center locker sack-Rated at 650#
Before anyone jumps on it. No, you will not get that much weight out of them but they will utilize all the available space in the compartment.
I am a dealer and You can do those 2 sacks for under $400.00 plus pumps.

ralph 09-26-2012 2:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMoreSet (Post 1785663)
But much like on the teeter-totter if you put 500lbs on one extreme side, but dont put the other weight at the extreme opposite side you may need more weight given how/where it sits on the axis.

So you may need 700lbs midship to approximate 500lbs in the nose - if what youre trying to do is bring the nose down to lengthen the transition.

your thoughts?

I have thought about this concept too (probably too much if you ask the wife) the way I see it the boat is a lever and the fulcrum is where the hull meets the water, so yes weight in the very front would have more effect than weight in the centre, that's why my chain locker is filled with steel disks...

johnny_defacto 09-26-2012 2:54 PM

Darren, I see it the same way. I have 400 Lbs of lead in the very tips of my bow, as far forward as you can go. I wonder how relative it is to someone who throws a 750 about 4 feet farther towards the back across the bow seats....

tranner 09-26-2012 4:48 PM

Not sure if this helps, but I have a 2006 VLX and we ride at 75' at 23 mph with this setup.

1000# Factory ballast full (250 hard tanks x 2 in the rear plus 500 belly)
500# lead in the bow under the cushions
1500# in rear lockers on top of the factory hard tanks (750 sacks x 2)
4 people inside the boat and 1 rider

polarbill 09-26-2012 4:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranner (Post 1785793)
Not sure if this helps, but I have a 2006 VLX and we ride at 75' at 23 mph with this setup.

1000# Factory ballast full (250 hard tanks x 2 in the rear plus 500 belly)
500# lead in the bow under the cushions
1500# in rear lockers on top of the factory hard tanks (750 sacks x 2)
4 people inside the boat and 1 rider

No Wedge? That works out to 1000 front/mid and 2000 rear. Without using the wedge does that give you a pretty steep wake?

tranner 09-28-2012 10:18 AM

Brett, that's correct. I run without the wedge. Hard to explain without photos but we get a very nice lip at the top of the wake that kicks pretty good.


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