WakeWorld

WakeWorld (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/index.php)
-   Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3183)
-   -   which boat? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=795508)

jronix 09-12-2012 5:47 PM

which boat?
 
Looking to buy my first wakeboard boat and have a budget of 25k, looking at either 04 Supra 22 ssv or 04 avalanche. Just narrowed it down after reading online about every boat out there and these two seem to be in my price range. Would like a good wakeboard wake as well as surf wake, and want lots of ballast with of course all of the options. Any feedback would be appreciated, I dont pretend to know everything about these boats so won't be insulted by some of your comments.

Truekaotik 09-12-2012 5:57 PM

Both are nice... The Avalanche will throw the BEST surf wave between them...

wakebordr11 09-12-2012 7:14 PM

I prefer the Avy board wake as well. Supra makes a great wake but the Avy being deeper, plusher interior and overall nicer inside as well as the wake I take Avy... Feel its a bit under powered... Will want to prop way down- Acme 911...

polarbill 09-12-2012 7:47 PM

My opinion based mostly off of peoples posts on wakeworld.

core build quality: I Would say this is about even. Both boats have good core build quality.

plushness/fit and finish: edge to supra here although I don't think it is a really big difference.

room/storage: I would say interior seating room is pretty similar, storage overall is probably about the same although they have it in different areas assuming the supra has the playpen bow. The avalanche is a little deeper inside meaning the seat bases aren't as shallow as the supra so may be a little more comfortable from that standpoint. It will also feel like the boat comes up more around you then a shallower boat like the supra. That said I don't think the supra is super shallow although compared to newer boats it probably is.

Features/options: either could be better but I will say that most supra 22 ssv's seem to come with tower, racks, bimini, perfect pass, triple ballast, hydraulic wakeplate, etc while a lot of the avalanches seem to come stripped. Lots will have tower, racks and center ballast and that is it. Most have a fixed/manual wakeplate, most don't have rear ballast, lots don't have perfect pass. So in general my guess is most supra's will have all the things needed while most avy's will need some money dropped into PP and ballast. Again, this varies from boat to boat though. Also remember, just because it doesn't have it doesn't mean it can't be added.

wakeboard wake: I give the slight edge to the Supra. IT should be a more consistant wake then the Avy. Also, if the supra has the playpen you have the ability to had an 1100 pound bow sack and dual 750's or so that will all be hidden and automatic. IF the boat has triple ballast it is as easy as swapping bags. I actually think the avy gets a bad wrap on wakeworld for it's wakeboard wake. It has a really deep V hull so it doesn't take a bunch of weight to get a nice, good sized wake. It is a little finicky though because of the deep V. Also, some early avy's including the 04 I think had problems cleaning up one side of the wake. I think a lot of times you just have to have a couple hundred pounds more ballast on the port side. Other stories include people trying to bend the tracking fins.

Surf wake: although I am sure the supra can throw a decent surf wake the Avy is one of the best surf boats ever made. It has a better hull design for surfing and is a little deeper boat so it can handle more weight probably.

Rough water ride: Avy hands down although the supra wake isn't terrible if you keep some weight in the bow bag and adjust the wakeplate down.

Overall: both boats can be nice, both boats can be crappy if not taken care of. If wakeboard wake is a priority I would probably lean towards the supra, if surf wake is the priority I would choose the avy. If you want both to be good I would probably lean towards the Avy.

jronix 09-13-2012 5:13 AM

I appreciate the feedback, are there other boats in my price range that are better options? Im trying to stay away from a boat more than 10 years old, just dont want to spend that kind of money for an older boat.

nitrousbird 09-13-2012 5:19 AM

'01 - '04 Malibu Wakesetter VLX can be had for that price range...the '03-'04 may take a bit of negotiation to get into that price range. Great hull that was used for over a decade, with the plush interiors Malibu is known for. Options can range a lot of these boats from base to loaded, various towers, variety of motors, etc.

xstarrider 09-13-2012 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jronix (Post 1782618)
I appreciate the feedback, are there other boats in my price range that are better options? Im trying to stay away from a boat more than 10 years old, just dont want to spend that kind of money for an older boat.

I understand you logic about newer having less issues or a better style. But in some cases the older boat is bomb proof. If you are getting an older mc or Nautique the boat ha already been put to the test and had the "kinks" worked out. My 13 yr old X star has 1039 flawless hours of massive wakes. Newer is not always better.

Of the two boats you mentioned I would go with an Avalanche. The wake is very meaty and steep. It has huge pop. The surf wake is a class leader. That is the wake everyone was tring to model after building surf boas before the Enzo series emerged. The centurions always are weight sensitive side to side to their deep v. It's not a huge issue. You just need a fat brick or two to put under the observer or drivers seat to balance it. The boats construction is rock solid and u won't here a rattle or a shake from the boat. It handles chop like no other 22 ft wakeboat.
Make sure it has the hydraulic trim tab or pass on it tho. It's a must for a core rider/surfer. You can add one if it doesn't but it will cost ya.

The SSV is also a grea boat. Cut takes a bit more weight to get the wake going. The transition is a bit shorter than most boas it's size but it has just enough pop and kick. The boat doesn't handle like anything special through the chip or weighted down. You will find it flexes a bit more in the chop and depending on what tower it has you will get some tower sway. You will also get some vibration in the dash when taking off loaded. Nothing too concerning just a supra boat thing from that era. As mentioned all the ballast will be hidden in the supra with the huge belly sac compartment due to te playpen. The Avy will need some bow weight As well

The gel pat is a bit more refined on the Avalanche. All the striping and details are actually in te Gelcoat not stickers. Just the centurion logo is a sticker. It's still one of my favorite gelcoats from any mfg of boat. It's makes the boat so clean with the accents like that, supras gel just is a standard plain ol gel.

The indmar power plant on the supra I would say is a touch better than the merc power plant on the Avy. Dependinh on the year tho Centurion offered indmar as well. However you can pretty much get the merc power plant serviced anywhere it's so common on the I/o boats.

xstarrider 09-13-2012 6:35 AM

Whoops. I meant centurion swapped to PCM

jronix 09-13-2012 6:38 AM

I plan on buying a boat next spring so it looks like I have some time to shop around. Another issue i'm running into is that i'm not finding any avalanches locally, (Im in Michigan) are those boats made out west or something? I see a lot of mastercraft, malibu, and nautiques around and of course they r the priciest boats. I would be willing to travel some for a boat but don't want to make a cross country trip. Wouldnt mind buying an 03 SANTE if I could find one in my price range.

jronix 09-13-2012 7:02 AM

And is there a change in the hull in the Avy between 04 and 05, if so might be willing to spend a little more if its worth it.

iShredSAN 09-13-2012 7:37 AM

Call my opinion biased but I am sure many will agree that 1999 and up Super Air Nautique 210 is a great boat for that price range. The hull is great, add some people and a little weight and the wake looks great, add a lot off people/weight the wake gets even bigger. The motors in them seem to be great as well as long as you don't get a lemon, which Swatguy stated earlier about an older boat that is still running great is always a good sign. All in all you need to go ride/drive all of these boats you are considering and go from there. Once you have figured out what kind fits you best, you need to make sure the boat is in good condition and doesn't appear as if it has been ran through hell and back. http://onlyinboards.com/BoatMarketplace/BoatBrowse.aspx should be your best friend! $25k is a great budget for a nice used boat, especially as your starter boat! Keep us updated on what you figure out/ decide. Good luck my friend!

scotthons 09-13-2012 7:48 AM

Since you have time to shop why not add the Supra 21V. I got a '06 over two years ago with the same budget. It has a nice wakeboard wake. Not sure about the surf wake, but I am sure it is doable. I wish I could add some other boats for you to consider, but I have only had a Malibu direct drive and now this one. Good luck with your seach and if you find any in New Mexico and need someone to take a look for you let me know.

jronix 09-13-2012 8:03 AM

Thanks again for all of your help, let the search begin! ( once I sell my current i/o).

polarbill 09-13-2012 9:18 AM

Another boat I would very seriously consider is the Tige 22V in the 03-05 range. Great surf boat, great wakeboard wake, solid quality, nice deep inside boat, most come pretty well equipped. All will have the trim tab/TAPS and most will have perfect pass. The only issue with them is at that point Tige was still trying to convince all their buyers that the taps and their hull was as good as adding ballast so most don't have a ballast system built in. A ballast system isn't real cheap to add but isn't crazy expensive. Yoiu could install a triple auto ballast system for probably around 1200-1500 yourself or have a shop do it for around 2 grand. The 22v/22ve hull might be the best combo surf/wakeboard hull of the 2000's.

lakesurfer 09-13-2012 9:52 AM

A few comments on Avy

1. Centurion swapped to the PCM engine in 2009, so you will have a Merc in an 04/05. The big difference in the Merc engine in the 04/05 time frame is that the Merc went from 315hp to 330hp.

2. The Avy come in a Non-C4 and a C4 version. The Non-C4 version does not have wrap around seating and has a walk through over the stb locker (this causes stb locker to be significantly smaller than port locker). This is not a popular design and will limit resale (but you will be able to buy it cheaper). The C4 version has wrap around seating and full sun pad over stbd locker (std locker will have same amount of room as port locker)

I had an 08 Avy for 3 years. Built rock solid, only maintenance issues with Merc, top 5 surf wave (of any size boat) and a very solid wakeboard wake. The wake board wake is a little sensitive to weight. However, because of the Deep V hull, you can run less weight than most boats.

As always, test drive all of the boats you look at and good luck.

jronix 09-13-2012 12:06 PM

I will check this forum quite often so if anyone knows of a nice boat in my price range don't hesitate to put the word out.

polarbill 09-13-2012 12:14 PM

what part of the country do you live in?

jronix 09-13-2012 12:35 PM

Im in sw michigan

xstarrider 09-13-2012 7:32 PM

I am 99% sure the avalanche hull has not changed since its inception. The Elite v hull has changed in that year which was originally the Hurricane, then the lightning, then the elite v

jronix 09-14-2012 6:12 AM

Is there an advantage in getting an 05 avy as opposed to an 04? And whats the stock ballast for those boats if any?

polarbill 09-14-2012 9:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jronix (Post 1782892)
Is there an advantage in getting an 05 avy as opposed to an 04? And whats the stock ballast for those boats if any?

I think they improved their fit and finish quite a bit from 03/04 to 07/08 but I am not sure there is much difference between 04 and 05. they still used transom ballast inlets that can be a problem sometimes. Nopt a big deal, you just have to go in reverse a little sometimes to get them to prime I think. I would bet there is almost no difference. There might have been 2 different swoop towers that would of come on the avy around then. The later one looks more solid although I have no idea if it actually is.

jronix 09-14-2012 10:39 AM

Im having a little trouble getting detailed info on these boats. Any idea about ballast, wake plate or pp? Havent heard much about the stock ballast. I do like the boat overall I'm just trying to avoid putting a bunch of money into a boat I just bought.

boardjnky4 09-14-2012 10:42 AM

for details on centurions, head over the centurioncrew.com

polarbill 09-14-2012 11:09 AM

Options/features wise I am not sure there is a difference at all between 2004 and 2005. Centurion's in that era used what they call storm packages for the way they were optioned. It was basically a way to package things most people liked. Here are what come with each of the storm packages:

Storm 1 Tower, Center Ballast

Storm 2 Tower, Center Ballast, Dual Rear Ballast, Custom Stereo System, 2 Centurion Board Racks, 2nd Battery w/ Isolator

Storm 3 Tower, Center Ballast, Dual Rear Ballast, Custom Stereo System, 2 Centurion Board Racks, 2nd Battery w/ Isolator Bennett Trim Tab and Perfect Pass Wakeboard Pro

Most of the one's I see had the storm 1 package. Now the original buyer could of ordered it with the storm 1 and added a few things when ordering or after the fact so just because it is a storm I it doesn't mean it doesn't have rear ballast or perfect pass.

It would be ideal to have an avy with triple ballast, PP and the trim plate but I haven't seen many with the trim plate. By the way the stock center ballast tank is a hard tank under the floor and is only about 250 pounds or so. If it was me I would add a bow integrated sack to it that fills through the overflow of the center tank plus put 750's or 1100's in the rear.

Again, most avy's I see for sale have the storm 1 package with jsut center ballast, no perfect pass, manual trim plate and that is about it. Also, someone mentioned it and there are 2 different layouts with the avy as well. The C4 is the full sunpad and full wrap aournd version and the regular has a walk through on the starboard side that eliminates the starboard sunpad, the starboard side cockpit seating and makes the starboard locker smaller. If you only plan on surfing on the regular side only it doesn't really matter other then you lose some seating.

xstarrider 09-14-2012 11:33 AM

Bill is pretty spot on


However the upgrade was between 04-05 for a bit better vinyl with a couple more color choices n accents. Different piping pattern with a much classier highend look. Offered a billet package that could get you some bling. Changed the carpet color a bit and tower choice. None of their towers are crap. They all function very well. The first yr gladiator tower had some stress crack issues but you are not in that year range. It's a newer tower.


The storm packages are right on. The rear tanks are 300lbs and the center on the Avy was closer to 400. If u ask me it's better if the boat has only the center tank. Then you don't have to gut what's there and piecemeal a better system with more weight. You just have to add what bags you want and that is a piece of cake with nothing pre plumbed. The real nice thing about Centurions for that is even tho the boat may not have the rear ballast the switch plates are still on the console panel with just black caps to fill the hole. This way you just drop the new ballast switch in place nd it looks completely factory.

All in all the Avy with the stock rear tanks at about 300 each. The stock center tank and 400 in the nose at 22-24 mph is really a nice steep wake. Gut the hard tanks and throw 750 lb bags in the rear compartments and then you can have a huuuuuuuuuuge surfwave. Then when u board u just fill them to 500lbs or so and now throw a 600lb sac in the nose instead since the rear weight is more and you will have one giant steep wakeboard wake.

Due to its deep v it doesn't take a tone of weight even for this big boat to get the wake macking. Even the stock 3 tanks and 400 in the nose will satisfy a ton of riders. It gets meaty quick.

xstarrider 09-14-2012 11:38 AM

This is at my local dealer here in Illinois right next door who is absolutely top notch. It's a sick looking boat with the switchblade option instead of the wake plate and sideswipe exhaust. avalanche c4. It ha all the essentials including the bling package( notice the centurion custom billet step plates to the bow and stainless cupholders throughout) and triple ballast. Ask for Eric and tell him I sent ya.


http://www.lauderdalelakesmarina.com...sp?pov=2843693

jronix 09-14-2012 11:39 AM

Thanks for the feedback, although I will admit its a lot to take in seeing how this will be my first wakeboard boat. Learn as u go I guess.

jronix 09-14-2012 2:22 PM

@ swatguy, that boat is sick looking thanks for the link. Unfortunately the wife says the current boat has to go before I buy a new one. That price actually seems a bit low, seems to be a great deal. I will see what I can do:)

xstarrider 09-14-2012 5:30 PM

Trade it in and save on the taxes. :)

tampawake 09-14-2012 5:37 PM

Sideswipe is horrible depending on where you sit it's so loud you can't believe it. No problem with centurion just hate the side swipe. Great wake and not any more finicky than any other wake.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:31 PM.