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-   -   Almost sunk the supra - Not a good end of the weekend (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=795393)

HygOctaneGraphics 09-05-2012 9:48 AM

Almost sunk the supra - Not a good end of the weekend
 
took on water on the front which I couldnt power us out of. Caused the boat to lift to one side and rollover. everyone got out ok. got the boat turned over and out before it sank. not a good weekend

http://ixcr.com/supraupsidedown.jpg

09-05-2012 9:51 AM

Were you surfing, wakeboarding, tubing or just chillin out? Sucks though.

saberworks 09-05-2012 9:58 AM

How much ballast were you running? Overloaded?

jeff_mn 09-05-2012 10:03 AM

What a nightmare - glad you are all ok.

jbird 09-05-2012 10:35 AM

Not a lot of info to help others avoid this situation? How did you take on so much water...Which then you tried to power out of? And so much it caused the boat to overturn? Glad everyone is OK!

kybool 09-05-2012 10:50 AM

I am disappointed there is no vinyl wrap on the bottom of the boat. Glad everyone got out OK.

Joehekler 09-05-2012 11:07 AM

Must have been tough taking on that kind of water in the conditions shown in the picture.....

tyler97217 09-05-2012 11:11 AM

Yeah holy cow. Glad everyone is ok!!!!!!!!!! What were you doing to do that?

yjwrangler95 09-05-2012 11:38 AM

man glad you all made it out safe, Monroe?

psudy 09-05-2012 11:41 AM

Shouldn't you stay off the gas if your bow is underwater?

boardjnky4 09-05-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psudy (Post 1780854)
Shouldn't you stay off the gas if your bow is underwater?

or slam it in reverse...hitting the gas forward will just push it further under if the water is already pouring in.

psudy 09-05-2012 12:49 PM

thats what I thought!

polarbill 09-05-2012 1:06 PM

Depending on what happens hitting the gas in forward can help. If you do it right when the bow buries it probably isn't a good idea. If there is water in the boat and the boat is sitting flat it could help. What happens when you hit the gas in a boat? The bow raises up until you get up on plane. With the bow up and the boat moving forward a lot of the water could dump out over the transom plus you would be up on plane and could keep it from sinking. I know this because it happened to me. I took a wave over the bow of my calabria cal air that put about a foot of water on top of the floor. I got up on plane and let mos tof the water drain/flood out the boat and I was fine. Either way taking a huge wave over the bow is bad. I ended up selling the boat almost immediately after that happened.

wakebordr11 09-05-2012 1:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardjnky4 (Post 1780856)
or slam it in reverse...hitting the gas forward will just push it further under if the water is already pouring in.

And run people over that were in front that could be swept out A LA X45 incident... bump reverse to back out of it if you can SAFELY...

hco 09-05-2012 1:11 PM

When you take water over the bow, just wait for the natural buoyancy of the boat to help the bow pop back up before hitting the gas forward, and going in reverse can also make things worse too. Just know that even if you take a 3 ft. roller of the bow that your boat won't sink, you just have to bilge for a while.

boardman74 09-05-2012 1:13 PM

Thats a tough day right there!! Very curious how it all went down, as I am sure the insurance man will be. Conditions look pretty good, but that could be later.

psudy 09-05-2012 1:17 PM

Yeah. Regardless of how it went down, sorry about your boat!

09-05-2012 2:14 PM

I'm going with overloaded. I ran the twin to his boat (Comp), and have taken massive waves broadside, head on, every direction you can think of. I've taken monsters over the boat, and never once did my Comp ever come close to sinking, rolling, or anything. In order for that boat to buck like that you would have had to literally submarine it.

Guessing by the wraps you also added ballast as well?

That's going to be a fun salvage operation.

HygOctaneGraphics 09-05-2012 3:14 PM

sorry for the delay response, on my way back to Indiana from kentucky. This happened because we a had a couple of people sitting up front when we idled down into the no wake zone. No one in back just me in driver seat and someone in spotter seat. when water came in I got on it like you normally would to bring the nose up out of the water but this time it dived down deeper. once water got high enough engine stalled out. I probably could have hit the throttle harder and got the front up but I think I hesitated because I was into the no wake zone with lots of other boats around. I should have the people in front move to the back before idling down. No ballast and or overloaded. just a few mistakes. when every jumped out the boat lifted to one side then went over. good news is we towed the boat to near the shore and with help of a seadoo boat and some people turned in upright and drug in to the shore until the rubrails were out of water. Buckets and bilge pumped the water out. we got it on the trailer hit the house we were staying and began removing water from the motor, fuel tank and everywhere else. Fired it up and took a test run the next day. a few gauges/radio is dead but boat and motor are a go. Divers went down the next day and recovered almost all our stuff including wallets, car keys and etc. Big lesson learned no doubt.

boardjnky4 09-05-2012 3:19 PM

wow, glad to hear that man. lesson learned the hard way and with not too much damage.

bcrider 09-05-2012 3:47 PM

I'd believe that. Unless it's absolute glass I usually can't have anyone in the front of my boat because of how low it is and if I come of the throttle the nose will dive once the wake catches up to the back of the boat. If the nose was in the water deep enough hitting the throttle may have just dove it deeper instead of bringing it back up. Good thing you all made it out ok and you got your stuff back and a running boat. Only time will tell if your electronics start acting up.

boardjnky4 09-05-2012 3:49 PM

remember it is a direct drive boat. the rear of the boat doesnt have anything holding it down like the vdrive crew does.

Joehekler 09-05-2012 4:24 PM

Has anyone else noticed that the nose on supra boats slope down?? I've always thought they'd be more likely to get swamped. Poor design....

boardman74 09-05-2012 5:02 PM

They do slope down. The older Tige direct drives were the same way and were prone to washing the bow. My Pro Am is also low in the front and once in a while I take a wave over the bow. Happened this weekend actually. Having fun pulling the kids and neighbors on tubes. Was super windy and while throttling down after one of the kids fell off in a turn I washed about 20 gallons over the bow. Got the floor locker open in time for it to all drop in before it got to the back.

mro 09-05-2012 6:21 PM

i was looking at pics of the supra jam a while ago and wondering about how easy it would be to take on rollers ...
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=795210

on some of those pics it looks like if a family of ducks passed in front the boat it would be swamped.

grant_west 09-05-2012 6:37 PM

Dam that sucks I know you put a bunch of work into your boat latley sorry that happend.

07launch22ssv 09-05-2012 7:58 PM

Supra's have had sloped bows since their inception.......and those were even lower slalom boats. I fail to see how you could describe that as a poor design.

Giddyup 09-05-2012 8:18 PM

glad to hear you got things working, gauges should not be to hard to replace, i think you could change the title to say, sunk, wow, i glad all is working out ok, would not want that to happen, good luck

matt75 09-05-2012 8:42 PM

One of the reasons I sold my Supra 2007 Launch DD. Too much water over the bow. If it was just me and 2 others we were fine as crew knew I had to power over any rollers from oncoming boats. Too much hassle with a larger crew having everyone sit while avoid water from oncoming boats/wake.

markj 09-06-2012 2:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07launch22ssv (Post 1781010)
Supra's have had sloped bows since their inception.......and those were even lower slalom boats. I fail to see how you could describe that as a poor design.

Are you kidding? It's a dangerous design! It always has been. Everyone knows that. They've traded safety and seaworthiness for aggressive cool looks. Why else would you design a "scoop" into a bow? Is there a valid reason besides cosmetic ones that you would do that? Its just flirting with disaster. I am sorry to hear this story though. It sucks, especially if he's put a lot of work into the boat. The picture makes me sick. I can't even imagine the shock, fear, disappointment etc. I hope everything turns out okay.

brycejb328 09-06-2012 4:51 AM

Been behind the wheel of 2 different 22ssv's both with that massive 1100 pound bag up front. Never seen a drop come over the bow.

tx_foilhead 09-06-2012 4:58 AM

Mastercraft, Tige and Centurion use the same bow design, yes it requires more attention to what's going on, but it's not dangerous. This is driver error, and the driver even said so, no different than the Fountain that spun at LOTO. I've seen almost every inboard take water over the bow, it happens, no big deal, getting on the throttle at the wrong time was the real issue not the bow shape. Like every other accident that happens in a boat, it goes from good to bad in split second, you learn and hopefully move on with nobody hurt from the experience. Hopefully that works here for everyone that has read this and we all don't have to have it happen to us to learn that lesson.

Question for Jeff, in the pic it looks like the wake plate is down a little, is it an adjustable or a fixed?

882001 09-06-2012 5:19 AM

i have been in a supra launch that would have done the same exact thing. full ballast and too many people in the bow and not enough in the back. but the driver saved the day and went hard reverse and not in forward.forward throttle we would have looked like this

wakedaveup 09-06-2012 5:30 AM

Should have throttled back not forward. Once the nose was burried theres no more going forward you typically have to reverse out of it.

azeus17 09-06-2012 6:16 AM

Should have done nothing...a roller over the bow doesn't hurt anything. Even the biggest one imaginable, just let the boat settle and turn on the bilge...good to go.

polarbill 09-06-2012 8:17 AM

I think some are missing an important part of this. I am not trying to kick you while you are down but rather hope others can learn from the mistake. You came in and cut throttle right at the no wake zone so that by the time you were slowing and the water came over the bow you were in the no wake zone with a bunch of other boats around. There is no need to power all the way till you get to the bouys. This may or may not have helped your situation but who knows. I just think way too many people come into no wake zones way to fast and slow down all at once right at the bouys. It usually isn't too big of a problem unless it is coming into a launch or an area that has lots of boats. Even if you don't take a bunch of water over your boat it will throw a massive roller through the area. It just isn't needed.

In your situation it sounds like you should of just left the boat in neutral and let the boat flatten out. powering forward while the ass end of the boat was on top of the trailing roller and the nose down is why you submarined big time.

anyways, glad to hear you are ok, the boat got started and you got your stuff back. I bet you won't do that again.

By the way, if you need to replace a bunch of gauges I have a bunch of stewart warner performance gauges that are new old stock. Maybe you can help me get rid of some of the stock and I can help you get some gauges for cheap?

jeff_mn 09-06-2012 8:20 AM

Lot of arm chair quarterbacks. I'm shocked.

polarbill 09-06-2012 8:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_mn (Post 1781085)
Lot of arm chair quarterbacks. I'm shocked.

You mean people trying to discuss the right and wrong ways to do things so maybe some people learn something? I will take that before the absolute nothing you just brought to the table with your post.

wakebrdr94 09-06-2012 8:51 AM

A few people up front, how many is a few? Sounds like that x 45 incident. Sorry you went thought this, but you are the captain, you are responsible for everyone in your boat. It's worth being the buzz kill and telling people to move vs what happened. Glad everyone was ok

09-06-2012 8:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_mn (Post 1781085)
Lot of arm chair quarterbacks. I'm shocked.

Naaah. Just better drivers.

This is 100% driver error. It sucks sure, but it has nothing to do with the design of the boat or how it was loaded.

Glad no one was hurt in the process, that would have been a rough lesson.

humboldt9 09-06-2012 9:21 AM

Jeff, thanks for sharing this unfortunate experience. Glad no one was injured and hopefully your post will educate a few on here about what to do to prevent this from happening to them. Best of luck getting the boat back in working order, sounds like you'll get there.

Joehekler 09-06-2012 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07launch22ssv (Post 1781010)
Supra's have had sloped bows since their inception.......and those were even lower slalom boats. I fail to see how you could describe that as a poor design.

That's the argument you want to make? Because that's the way they have always been? Sloped bow=lower to the water=easier to take in water....

07launch22ssv 09-06-2012 10:25 AM

I'm not going to argue, but as everyone else has said it's not the design of the boat that caused the problem. I have had Supra's for 20 years starting with the low to the water slalom boats and never sunk a single one.

Dmac420sj 09-06-2012 11:18 AM

Daaamn! I'm glad you posted man and everything's good. Cuz I had a near incident this weekend also I have a Sanger v 210 ( low freeboard) and had about 1100 lbs in the ski locker and bow and my buddy was sitting up front , luckily where I was was glass all weekend ;) , but when I came off the throttle the nose dipped about 3" off the surface and it freaked me out ! So I yelled at him hahaha told him to get In The back. But I thought to gas out of it and by reding that probably wouldn't be the right move. Right on now I know just let off let bouyency take over. But my wake was mackin! With him up there

stephan 09-06-2012 11:44 AM

Like others said this situation was avoidable. Coming off plane too quickly will do this to many inboard boats, if you just feather it and keep a little throttle til the roller passes its no big deal. Doing it without a full load of ballast is crazy.

In regards to the statement that a sloped bow is simply for cosmetics, that is false. Many manufacturers do this and the reasoning is for the driver to be able to see the rider as they approach them in the water. You may have to be extra diligent when driving loaded (or nose heavy) but the design is not a fatal flaw, simply something that must be negotiated. All boats can dip the nose, just gotta pay attention and be ready for it.

2LakeWake 09-06-2012 1:25 PM

NOT BASHING JEFF BY ANY MEANS..............You always have to be thinking and have to pay attention. I have a '03 Launch LTS DD. The bow is super close to the water. I run every weekend with 2-3 adults up front, 550 in the center locker, and another 1100lbs in the back of the boat. I often run with only the 550 in the center locker full with no other ballast filled along with 2 people in the bow and no one but me and a spotter behind the windshield. Knock on wood, never had an issue.

It just goes to show you that if you are driving a boat, rather it be pulling someone or just riding, you always have to be thinking and paying attention.

squeezer 09-06-2012 3:41 PM

I might be a bit old school but am I the only one who would love a closed bow V-drive??? I absolutely detest my open bow. (Sanger V215) Love the rest of the boat and can easily seat 8-9 or so people in the main cockpit. I don't like people in the front for all kinds of reasons, balance, visibility, safety to name a few. my last boat was was a lower profile closed bow with just a broad open space under the deck. Perfect for storage, sacking out out of the sun, etc etc. And don't even get me started on the cosmetics!!! OK rant off, but lets just say I hate it enough to build a hard cover this winter to replace the Sunbrella cover I have now.

jarrod 09-06-2012 3:48 PM

Chris, I'm with you. My ideal boat would have a closed bow with the driver pushed all the way forward to create a huge cabin, more visability, and eliminate the dipping the bow thing.

hatepain 09-06-2012 4:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here ya go. Conatact Robert, maybe he can hook ya up :)

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...hlight=twister

Raf1985 09-06-2012 5:18 PM

^^that is the sickest thing ever!!!

pprior 09-06-2012 5:44 PM

^^ LOve it!

882001 09-06-2012 5:53 PM

i dont like driving with a bow full of people. that twister cover is awesome!! how many can you get up there? whats it made of and how is it fastened?

HygOctaneGraphics 09-06-2012 6:29 PM

LMAO that thing is awesome!

jetskiprosx 09-06-2012 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrod (Post 1781217)
Chris, I'm with you. My ideal boat would have a closed bow with the driver pushed all the way forward to create a huge cabin, more visability, and eliminate the dipping the bow thing.

I've seen a few hard shell fiberglass bow covers. If you're serious about it, I'm sure you can find someone to build you one. Or I bet you could custom order a CB v-drive...though it would probably kill resale.


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